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Author Topic: | ARDOR | Scalable Blockchain-as-a-Service Platform | Proof of Stake  (Read 367217 times)
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July 23, 2016, 10:53:13 AM
 #401

as far as I understand, is just NXT 2.0 in the same way that Windows 8's new version is called Windows 10. Please do correct me if I am wrong in this, so far.



From the history of Windows I am familiar with: 95, 98, 2000, NT, XP, Vista, 7, 8 your understanding of Nxt 1.0 - Nxt 2.0 differences is completely off base. Is Windows 10 that much more different from 8 than 8 from 7 or XP?

That's hardly the point but yes, if you get to know the different versions of the system and depending of your usage of it, there are very significant differences between some of those, especially the most recent one. That was for illustrative purposes only though but since you bring it up maybe I should clarify it a bit more: If instead of calling it an asset-token-share, it would have been added to the set of tools already in NXT and called NXT 2.0, we will have exactly the same thing within just one name instead of 2? I hope the question is clearer now and easier to answer...


NXT 2.0/Ardor is completely new and fundamentally different type of blockhain, just using all present NXT 1.0 features on childchains. Using microsoft OS comaprison, I think its is DOS (NXT 1.0) and Windows (NXT 2.0/Ardor). Here is very rough and ugly infographics, explaining how it will look like:




Won't running another layer on top of NXT have issues in the performance of the platform if the usage will go higher and higher? Why not just develop Ardor's new features in NXT? I am sure it can be done.

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July 23, 2016, 11:58:45 AM
 #402

as far as I understand, is just NXT 2.0 in the same way that Windows 8's new version is called Windows 10. Please do correct me if I am wrong in this, so far.



From the history of Windows I am familiar with: 95, 98, 2000, NT, XP, Vista, 7, 8 your understanding of Nxt 1.0 - Nxt 2.0 differences is completely off base. Is Windows 10 that much more different from 8 than 8 from 7 or XP?

That's hardly the point but yes, if you get to know the different versions of the system and depending of your usage of it, there are very significant differences between some of those, especially the most recent one. That was for illustrative purposes only though but since you bring it up maybe I should clarify it a bit more: If instead of calling it an asset-token-share, it would have been added to the set of tools already in NXT and called NXT 2.0, we will have exactly the same thing within just one name instead of 2? I hope the question is clearer now and easier to answer...


NXT 2.0/Ardor is completely new and fundamentally different type of blockhain, just using all present NXT 1.0 features on childchains. Using microsoft OS comaprison, I think its is DOS (NXT 1.0) and Windows (NXT 2.0/Ardor). Here is very rough and ugly infographics, explaining how it will look like:




Won't running another layer on top of NXT have issues in the performance of the platform if the usage will go higher and higher? Why not just develop Ardor's new features in NXT? I am sure it can be done.

Ardor is about childchains, it can not be done on top of present NXT, it's completely and fundamentally different. All NXT 1.0 features will be on the first childchain, while other childchain creators could choose which features from NXT 1.0 they need.
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July 23, 2016, 02:37:41 PM
 #403

as far as I understand, is just NXT 2.0 in the same way that Windows 8's new version is called Windows 10. Please do correct me if I am wrong in this, so far.



From the history of Windows I am familiar with: 95, 98, 2000, NT, XP, Vista, 7, 8 your understanding of Nxt 1.0 - Nxt 2.0 differences is completely off base. Is Windows 10 that much more different from 8 than 8 from 7 or XP?

That's hardly the point but yes, if you get to know the different versions of the system and depending of your usage of it, there are very significant differences between some of those, especially the most recent one. That was for illustrative purposes only though but since you bring it up maybe I should clarify it a bit more: If instead of calling it an asset-token-share, it would have been added to the set of tools already in NXT and called NXT 2.0, we will have exactly the same thing within just one name instead of 2? I hope the question is clearer now and easier to answer...


NXT 2.0/Ardor is completely new and fundamentally different type of blockhain, just using all present NXT 1.0 features on childchains. Using microsoft OS comaprison, I think its is DOS (NXT 1.0) and Windows (NXT 2.0/Ardor). Here is very rough and ugly infographics, explaining how it will look like:




Won't running another layer on top of NXT have issues in the performance of the platform if the usage will go higher and higher? Why not just develop Ardor's new features in NXT? I am sure it can be done.

Ardor is about childchains, it can not be done on top of present NXT, it's completely and fundamentally different. All NXT 1.0 features will be on the first childchain, while other childchain creators could choose which features from NXT 1.0 they need.

Why is there a need for Ardor features in a childchain? Why not make these features in NXT itself? Is there a technical reason for this? My overall question is what made the NXT developers create Ardor when the features can be added in NXT? Is there really a need for Ardor?

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July 23, 2016, 02:52:07 PM
 #404

@bbcreporter: it is about scalability and preventing blockchain bloat. outsourcing all the beautiful functions of nxt that are not relevant for network security to childchains allows to prune the history of these much used smart transactions. the mainchain will only keep snapshots of each account's holdings of the childchaintoken, not the complete transaction history of these tokens. this leads to less blockchain bloat. less bloat also means that more transactions per second will be possible, because you can use the saved memory space to increase blocksize.
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July 23, 2016, 06:20:59 PM
 #405

-- In layman's terms, what is a "child chain" and what exactly does it do ... beyond being a shorthand for the real thing and, consequently, faster in the transmission/recording of data. Specifically, give me three examples if you will, practical ones, of real-world use of a "child chain".

I'm no expert, but I will try it:

Child chains are comparable to the currencies of the actual Monetary System. They can be used, for example, for bonus points for companies, gift-card systems, steem-like content monetization systems, or in-game currencies.

But they have two very important advantages: All present "monetary system" solutions require transaction fees to be paid in the base currency (e.g. NXT or NEM). With child chains, the fees are paid by a so-called "bundler", who adds the childchain transactions to the main chain. So participants of these currencies can pay fees in their child currency, or not pay any fees at all (e.g. if the bundler is the issuer company and decides to pay the Ardor fees without demanding a fee in the childchain token).

The second, and even larger, advantage is that child chain transactions can be pruned, so most nodes must only save the lightweight Ardor main blockchain.
Quote
-- I understand that users of these "child chains" will have to pay for them. To who? and through/depending on what?

Child chain issuers probably will have to pay a "issuance fee" like the creators of actual "Monetary system currencies". Child chain users normally will have to pay transaction fees in the child chain currency to the "bundler" (see above) so the bundler can benefit from it. This creates an incentive to actually do the "bundling" work, which does not only waste resources but also fees in the Ardor currency. But as I said above, I think that companies can opt to not require fees from users if the child currency benefits them, e.g. from a marketing point of view (in the case of bonus points, in-game currencies from commercial games ...).

Quote
-- In what way, if any, are those "new" features listed in the OP, any different from the currently widely available so-called "smart contracts" and "decentralized markets"?

That they are limited and mostly hard-coded, so the possibility of bugs like the DAO desaster is much lower (almost inexistent) because they can be tested much more thoroughly and are much less complex. It's actually a system that puts less emphasis in flexibility, but more on security, more bitcoin-like than ethereum-like.

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July 23, 2016, 06:26:59 PM
 #406

The reasons for Ardor are in this document by Jean-Luc: https://nxt.org/nxt-2-0-overview/

The main reasons are scalability and versatility for blockchain creators and business development.

This can not be done with the current Nxt architecture (although you are right it can do a lot!).

In Nxt 1.0 you need to pay fees with Nxt, even when building a service that doesn't need to be involved with Nxt at all.

For instance, users of NAUT need to pay fees in NXT. That is confusing and what's more: unnecessary.

In Ardor, this will no longer be needed and an effect of our solution is that we can keep the size of child chains very small compared to older blockchain types.

Barabbas' questions:

- A child chain is a blockchain that is part of the Ardor platform. They are the blockchains that record transactions, and submit them to the main Ardor chain for confirmation.

- Payment is two-fold. Users of a child chain pay to child chain transaction bundlers (in the child chain token). These bundlers pay to the main Ardor chain stakers (in Ardor).

Quote
Fee on child chains will be denominated in the chains native tokens, but the forging chain block forgers will still accept fees in the forging token (ARDR) only. To convert fees collected in native tokens to Ardor, the role of “bundlers”, or ChildChainBlock creators, will be introduced. Any account can serve as a creator of a childchain block, provided it is willing to accept the fees (in native token) collected from the transactions in the childchain block, and in exchange pay the required fee (in ARDR) to the forging chain block forger. This will establish a market rate for child chain token to ARDR token. If the fee in native token offered by a transaction sender is too low by current market rate, when converted to ARDR, no-one will be willing to bundle such transaction into a ChildChainBlock, and the sender must resubmit the transaction with a higher fee. If a child chain token loses value completely and no-one is willing to exchange it to ARDR, transaction processing on that child chain will naturally stop – unless someone interested in keeping it alive is willing to subsidize it, creating ChildChainBlocks and paying the expected ARDR fees to the forgers, while getting worthless (by free market rate) native tokens in return.

- Some features, like a real open BaaS platform are new. Other features are not, as Nxt pioneered most of them and will continue them in this new platform. As to "Smart Contracts", Nxt refused them years ago on the grounds of introducing levels of complexity that are considered not in balance with their usefulness. Nxt and Ardor instead opt for transactions that handle most common usable functions, which are tested and secure and can be combined safely into more complexity.


Member of the Nxt Foundation | Donations: NXT-D6K7-MLY6-98FM-FLL5T
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July 24, 2016, 03:40:43 AM
 #407

Don't forget about the 5 million bonus nxt for forgers.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/5-million-nxt-bounty-for-nxt-ardor-forgers/200/

I hear people talk about ardor on the poloniex troll box but they do not know much about the 5 million nxt forging bounty, and they don't know about the fnx distribution after ardor.
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July 24, 2016, 10:37:17 AM
 #408

Lior Yaffe, Nxt Core Developer Lecture Advanced Concepts in Blockchain Design July 27, 2016 http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/232620342/
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July 24, 2016, 10:46:52 AM
 #409

Do I accumulate ARDR if I hold my NXT in an exchange - Poloniex?
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July 24, 2016, 10:51:11 AM
 #410

Yep, you can run a full Nxt (or Ardor) node on a Solar powered Odroid or Raspi!

https://twitter.com/AvdiuSazan/status/756816182632734720
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July 24, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
 #411

Do I accumulate ARDR if I hold my NXT in an exchange - Poloniex?
Yes.
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July 24, 2016, 01:23:09 PM
 #412

Do I accumulate ARDR if I hold my NXT in an exchange - Poloniex?
Yes.

But do you really want to take that chance? Do you really think they will go through the trouble of making sure you get 100% every coin you deserve?
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July 24, 2016, 01:44:47 PM
 #413

Do I accumulate ARDR if I hold my NXT in an exchange - Poloniex?

Poloniex accumulates them for you.
The question is will they give them to you? They said they would, but you have to trust them on that. If they renege on the promise for some reason, nobody can help you get your Ardor coins.

On the other hand, if you store coins in your Nxt wallet, it's trust-free. Links to wallets are in my signature.

ARDOR - Blockchain as a Service. Three birds with one stone. /// Do not hold NXT at exchanges, NXT wallets: core+lite, mobile Android
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July 24, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
 #414

5 good reasons to invest in the ICO of ICO's - ICO OpenLedger (ICOO.io)
https://steemit.com/ccedk/@bloggersclub/5-good-reasons-to-invest-in-the-ico-of-ico-s-ico-openledger-icoo-io

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July 25, 2016, 02:28:06 AM
 #415

Don't forget about the 5 million bonus nxt for forgers.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/5-million-nxt-bounty-for-nxt-ardor-forgers/200/

I hear people talk about ardor on the poloniex troll box but they do not know much about the 5 million nxt forging bounty, and they don't know about the fnx distribution after ardor.

is this bounty only for hallmarked nodes with fixed IP?
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July 25, 2016, 02:45:10 AM
 #416

Don't forget about the 5 million bonus nxt for forgers.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/5-million-nxt-bounty-for-nxt-ardor-forgers/200/

I hear people talk about ardor on the poloniex troll box but they do not know much about the 5 million nxt forging bounty, and they don't know about the fnx distribution after ardor.

is this bounty only for hallmarked nodes with fixed IP?

The bounty is for your average guy forging. The nodes are a different bounty. So you can set up a node and get 2 bounties for 1
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July 25, 2016, 05:06:13 AM
 #417

@bbcreporter: it is about scalability and preventing blockchain bloat. outsourcing all the beautiful functions of nxt that are not relevant for network security to childchains allows to prune the history of these much used smart transactions. the mainchain will only keep snapshots of each account's holdings of the childchaintoken, not the complete transaction history of these tokens. this leads to less blockchain bloat. less bloat also means that more transactions per second will be possible, because you can use the saved memory space to increase blocksize.

Now I understand clearly. This is an elegant solution if you do not want to start over and lose the original NXT. This also good as a sort of revival if you want user interest to come back.

Thank you for your reply.

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July 25, 2016, 05:55:34 AM
 #418

its no ICO how distrubuted ardor coin
how i can develop coin via ardo or nxt project development
nxt same open soucer equal xcp or not
if yes i wan to ask how develop coin in there
thank you
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July 25, 2016, 07:09:49 AM
 #419

The price made me laugh out loud this morning  Cheesy

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July 25, 2016, 07:16:39 AM
 #420

The price made me laugh out loud this morning  Cheesy

Why? Is there a reason why we should be laughing? I think it is still too high to get in at these price. I am still awaiting for it to go down and have a fair bargain before buying.

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