I do not endorse any website in my signature.<--Yes You Do!

[TwitchySeal]

You're getting paid to promote an exceptionally scummy site.  

Maybe you are able to fool yourself into thinking it's ok as long as A) you put disclaimer in profile  and B) you haven't looked into the accusations against the site but plan on doing so whenever you don't have more important things to do.

it's all bullshit. when you put the ad in your Sig you drive traffic and increase the reputation of the site. that's why they pay you. duh.

You're setting a bad example as a staff member, sending the message "we don't have to accept responsibility for the decision we make to promote a site (or not promote a site)"

Just because you haven't taken the time to research the situation for yourself doesn't make it ok.

I tried handling this privately but I find your "I won't be able to research this site for a while, but will keep promoting them anyway" attitude unacceptable.

My last pm to you over 24 hours ago got no response so here we are:

It's irresponsible to advertise a business without any due diligence.

Please, stop promoting Betcoin in your signature until you are confident enough to take a stance.  

[Quickseller]

LOL, that disclaimer is not even visible by default because it is in her "other contact info" section of her profile, so when people view her posts they do not see this disclaimer.

It is kinda sad that someone advertising what is fairly certain to be a scam site, or at the very least that is not 100% "above board" is allowed to remain a moderator. It doesn't exactly give a very good message to those looking from the outside when they are trying to form an opinion about the forum.

[TwitchySeal]

laudas mentality is clearly a popular one on this forum and results in sites manufacturing trust without anyone being held responsible.

If a site has a signature campaign on this forum we have the power to hold them responsible.  Sites that act scummy and ignore legit issues should have their Sig campaign shut down by trusted users who are willing to neg rep all who continue promoting after warning.


instead we have staff joining Sig campaign who are clueless and refuse to get a clue.

[botany]

People who have promoted ponzis in their signature have received negative trust in the past...
I doubt if a disclaimer like this would have worked.

[EcuaMobi]

Of course that disclaimer is useless. I wasn't aware of a problem with betcoin.ag. Is there enough proof that it's scammy? Are you talking about this thread? Any other?

If someone promotes a site which is known for being scammy then they clearly deserve negative trust, regardless of their position or any disclaimer. Now the question is whether that site is clearly scammy. If it is (without much doubt) then I'll add some negative trust.

Also, I do believe highly-trusted users and staff should be specially careful with what they promote. As I said long ago in a similar case: if the staff promotes a site newbies will think it's endorsed by the forum (I know it's not the case but it can look like it because of the 'Staff' legend). So they definitely need to check any site before promoting it.

Update: I haven't found final proof against betcoin.ag so I don't think promoting it deserves negative trust. There are some suspicious things so personally I wouldn't promote it but the benefit of the doubt could apply. However I do think it would be more responsible for anyone to research a site before promoting it. This is valid for everyone and even more so for staff and trusted members.

And just a note to Vod and Quickseller: you obvious can't have a proper discussion with each other so please consider just ignoring each other for everyone's sake. At least that's what I try to do whenever I see any of you writing about the other. I have to say I do strongly appreciate your opinions otherwise.

[Quickseller]

Is there enough proof that it's scammy? Are you talking about this thread?

Yes, that thread.

It looks like a player won some kind of jackpot that should have resulted in the player receiving just under 3kBTC, however that player ended up receiving what can logically be explained as being less then the full amount via a confidential settlement.

The root cause of the issue appears to be something about the software they are (not were) using, made by BetSoft (BetSoft might even be the one that is actually paying out -- I am not really sure). A best case scenario is that BetCoin is using a 3rd party vendor that results in players not receiving all of what they are due when they win the jackpot. Even if you were to argue that BetCoin was not aware of the issues with BetSoft (IMO, this is a little far fetched, but this would result in BetCoin being given a maximum benefit of the doubt), they are still hosting games that use BetSoft software, so they are knowingly hosing games that they know will not fully payout when a player wins. (archive from today proving they are still hosing BetSoft games).

[TwitchySeal]

here's a thread I've attempted to use to keep track of all the scummy things betcoin has done

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.0

some of it might be hard to understand for anyone without a backround in poker or gambling ( I'm happy to explain anything not clear in that thread)

I'm hesitant to call them a scam site though because I don't want to debate the definition of the word "scam" 

[otrkid70]

Who made you the babysitter of Lauda? Who cares what He/She has in their Signature. I understand you Question the Website in the signature but why the personal attack by naming Him/Her?

[botany]

Who made you the babysitter of Lauda? Who cares what He/She has in their Signature. I understand you Question the Website in the signature but why the personal attack by naming Him/Her?

Personal attacks are part of the game here, especially if you are a mod / DT member.
There is no getting away from that.

[Quickseller]

Who made you the babysitter of Lauda? Who cares what He/She has in their Signature. I understand you Question the Website in the signature but why the personal attack by naming Him/Her?

Personal attacks are part of the game here, especially if you are a mod / DT member.
There is no getting away from that.

I don't think this is a personal attack. The OP has been very active in trying to get shady casinos to payout what they clearly owe their players when there have been disputes in the past. BetCoin (the website that Lauda is promoting via her signature), apparently has a fairly long history of being extremely shady.

From the looks of it, the OP contacted one or more members of BetCoin's signature campaign, presumably asking them to remove their signature, and Lauda responded by posting a BS disclaimer (that is not even visible the majority of the time) that she does not endorse any website in her signature.

[Vod]

Lauda responded by posting a BS disclaimer

Another personal attack against Lauda.  I don't know if it's because Lauda represents the establishment that has labelled QS a scammer, or he just hates Lauda because Lauda is honest.

[TwitchySeal]

I have absolutely no history with Lauda aside from a few pms, all within the last 48 hours. 

 I just want to bring attention to the damage that is happening from people thinking they are not responsible for the site they are getting paid to promote and think since Lauda is a staff member, they serve as a good example to prove my point and also deserve to be made an example out of.

I don't think any site should be able to run a signature campaign on this forum unless they are prepared to respond to any reasonable question.  Ignoring players should never be considered acceptable.

Here are all 3 pms I've sent to Lauda.  I won't post the 2 responses, but to summarize: Lauda does not know about these issues.  THey aren't a priority and it will be  quite some time before they are able to investigate on their own.

I have not received a response to the final pm, and they continue to promote Betcoin and post in other forums. 


PM #1

(No subject)
« Sent to: Lauda on: July 07, 2016, 11:14:56 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote  ReplyReply  Remove this messageDelete 
Hi,

I noticed you've joined Betcoins signature campaign and hope you will reconsider considering the influence you would have over potential future Bitcoin users.

Am I right to assume you either haven't looked very closely or  don't understand the many accusations that have been made over the past year+ against them?   I'm not questioning your intelligence ( I've read some of your posts, I know you're one of the smart ones ), if you aren't familiar with or interested in gambling/poker, I wouldn't blame you for not digging through long threads which are mostly nonsense anyway. 

Betcoin is doing damage to the future of Bitcoins Casino and Poker industry by  establishing a negative image to potential players and setting pathetic standards of what current players should consider acceptable.

Their strategy is clearly focused on building their reputation artificially with bribes and signature campaigns rather than earning it.  They use their campaign members (most of which are never seen playing at Betcoin) to bully or discredit actual players who bring up legitimate issues. 

They also create the illusion that Betcoin has made themselves publicly available while ignoring the serious issues, they instead thank users (who they are paying) for any kind words or softball questions.

 I really hope you will take this seriously and respond with your honest opinion,  I'm more than happy to explain anything you don't understand.  I've gone out of my way to provide evidence to support all of my accusations, here are just a few of many, I don't know where to begin really, just let me know of any questions.
 
My big collection of Betcoin issues:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.0

Recent issue about BTC500+ jackpot (resolution was simply  bribe to silence player)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236667.msg15426182#msg15426182
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.msg15424335#msg15424335

Some quotes from Dooglus (I figure everyone trusts him, right?)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg13025707#msg13025707
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg14470101#msg14470101

Thanks





PM #2

Hi,

It's disappointing to get this kind of response from a staff member.  You're accepting money in exchange for promoting Betcoin in your signature, clearly you have an ethical obligation to the community to make every effort to avoid driving traffic to any business that fails to meet whatever ethical standards you consider reasonable.  "I don't have time" is just such a bad example to set.

Your decision to promote Betcoin will influence the opinion of potential Betcoin customers, other signature campaign members and also Betcoins competition.  Whether you like it or not, you're sending a message that on some level, Betcoins behavior is acceptable.  Your "I do not endorse any website in my signature." disclaimer is not a substitute.

Here's a few bits that should take no longer than a few minutes to digest. Hopefully it will convince you that to at least remove the Betcoin signature, until you have taken the time to inform yourself and draw your own conclusion. (I'm happy to help if you have questions)



In the last 48 hours, Betcoin has been blacklisted or had warnings issued on several of the most established Casino Affiliate Sites.

Here's a screenshot of three of them: https://i.gyazo.com/e2a153be33ff644bc3631a4fb8d9a6c8.png

Left: https://www.casinolistings.com/casinos/rogue-warnings-blacklist
Top Right: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74146
Bottom Right: http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/casinos/betcoin.html



In this post I shared evidence that Betcoin changed their terms without changing the "last updated" in attempt to void a 505+BTC prize after it happened with the hopes that nobody would notice.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.msg15424335#msg15424335

They eventually changed the "last updated" several days after being exposed.

Stunna, one of the more respected members here, responded:

Looks like Betcoin.ag finally changed the "Last updated" on their ToS.

Everything we all hate about fiat money casinos in a bitcoin one.
All around scammy behavior, how many accounts do they have on this forum?

Some of dooglus' statements from months ago:

This is the first time I've worried about betcoin being a scam.
One thing all scam site threads have in common is that negative criticism, no matter how valid, is rejected as "FUD" or "trolling".
Is that the best you can do? How about actually addressing the concerns people have raised rather than claiming that there is a "discussion" going on, while discounting the views of anyone who disagrees with you?

What is the point of having a thread like this if every time someone asks a difficult question you spam the same 3 posts on top of it to hide the difficult question?
Please either answer the questions or explicitly admit that you don't want to answer them. Repeatedly spamming the same out-of-date information about tournaments that already finished is annoying, ugly, and rude.

And finally, an anonymous person who seems to have been your campaign manager had a conversation with me in a google document.  Whoever it was clearly considered the fact you were joining a great success:

Code:

So Lauda (a staff member) also joined the campaign today :D
6:09 AM Jul 5
Anonymous
Anonymous 
See how you are fucking with them. Its getting no influence on their campaign. LOL!
6:09 AM Jul 5
Twitchy Seal
Twitchy Seal 
this is sad
6:11 AM Jul 5•Edit•Delete
Anonymous
Anonymous 
See his profile for solid proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101872
6:12 AM Jul 5
Anonymous
Anonymous 
Looolllllll. A staff member joined now. You will have zero influence now. And better be careful because you will be banned by Lauda now! :D
6:13 AM Jul 5
Twitchy Seal
Twitchy Seal 
They must need the money. I hope. Hopefully they wont run around acting all shilly
6:15 AM Jul 5•Edit•Delete
Twitchy Seal
Twitchy Seal 
I will always have influence though, don't be silly, :)
6:16 AM Jul 5•Edit•Delete
Anonymous
Anonymous 
Wait and watch. I hired Lauda for our benefit ;) Now post another bullshit on our thread and get banned. hahaha
6:17 AM Jul 5
Twitchy Seal
Twitchy Seal 
I post truth, not bullshit.
6:17 AM Jul 5•Edit•Delete
Anonymous
Anonymous 
you are a bullshit troll. now fuck yourself. Or get banned by bitcointalk staff :D

PM #3

Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: Lauda on: July 08, 2016, 08:27:32 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote  ReplyReply  Remove this messageDelete 
It's irresponsible to advertise a business without any due diligence.

Please, stop promoting Betcoin in your signature until you are confident enough to take a stance. 

[ndnh]

I don't think Lauda wearing a Betcoin.ag signature is a big deal.

There are accusations about every single site out there. This (resolved) accusation of not awarding the jackpot if I understand correctly is actually against Betsoft. As they stated, he wouldn't have received the jackpot makes no matter which site he was playing at.
The only thing I see shady is the way they changed their terms without changing the last updated date.

[Quickseller]

There are accusations about every single site out there. This (resolved) accusation of not awarding the jackpot if I understand correctly is actually against Betsoft. As they stated, he wouldn't have received the jackpot makes no matter which site he was playing at.

BetCoin is still actively promoting BetSoft games on their site, therefore, in my eyes they are just as responsible for the non-payment of the jackpot, especially now that they cannot deny that they were not aware of the issues.

Regardless of the fact that Betsoft software will cause jackpots to not be awarded when they should be, and regardless of the fact that this will happen at any site that hosts Betsoft games, it is still a possibility that this will happen at Betcoin, and as long as this is a true statement, Betcoin is a scam site. If Betcoin wants to get this label removed then they should pull/remove any BetSoft games from their website.

Until the above happens, anyone promoting Betcoin is promoting a scam site

[ndnh]

There are accusations about every single site out there. This (resolved) accusation of not awarding the jackpot if I understand correctly is actually against Betsoft. As they stated, he wouldn't have received the jackpot makes no matter which site he was playing at.

BetCoin is still actively promoting BetSoft games on their site, therefore, in my eyes they are just as responsible for the non-payment of the jackpot, especially now that they cannot deny that they were not aware of the issues.

Not in my eyes.

Do you mean all casinos, that still have BetSoft games on their site and, are or should be aware of this resolved accusation are scam?
If they had not updated the payout table I might have agreed with you.
Do let me know which slots or feature of BetSoft is not working as it should be?

Bitcoin Casinos with Betsoft Progressive Jackpot Slots
4grinz.com
7bitcasino.com
betchain.com
betchan.com
betcoin.ag
bitcasino.io
bitcoin penguin
bitstarz
btc casino
cloudbet
fortune jack
limoplay
mbit casino
oshi
sportsbet.io
vegascasino.io

Wait a couple of days and go ahead negging all the above and the members wearing any of their signature.  

[Lauda]

From the looks of it, the OP contacted one or more members of BetCoin's signature campaign, presumably asking them to remove their signature, and Lauda responded by posting a BS disclaimer (that is not even visible the majority of the time) that she does not endorse any website in her signature.

Incorrect. I have asked the OP (kindly; now I see that it was a mistake) to give me some time because I have a backlog that needs to be worked down from. I added that disclaimer temporarily until I am able to verify what is going on, yet I get attacked even for that.

Another personal attack against Lauda.

This has become a daily routine now.

Update: I haven't found final proof against betcoin.ag so I don't think promoting it deserves negative trust. There are some suspicious things so personally I wouldn't promote it but the benefit of the doubt could apply. However I do think it would be more responsible for anyone to research a site before promoting it. This is valid for everyone and even more so for staff and trusted members.

All that was required was to give me time to evaluate the claims and decide or provide a conclusive 'investigation' by possibly a DT member (which ended up as inconclusive). Until that time, I don't see why I should comply with the requests of a random person. I don't even want to comment on this further, it is quite disrespectful at best.

Do you mean all casinos, that still have BetSoft games on their site and, are or should be aware of this resolved accusation are scam?

Don't be surprised if Lauda is at fault for all of those as well.

[Joel_Jantsen]

All that was required was to give me time to evaluate the claims and decide or provide a conclusive 'investigation' by possibly a DT member (which ended up as inconclusive). Until that time, I don't see why I should comply with the requests of a random person. I don't even want to comment on this further, it is quite disrespectful at best.

Not trying to offend you or something but if it is any other member on the forum due to any causes either a scam accusation is opened or found promoting something which is liable to steal money from users indirectly,DT members without even looking into the matter ,give a negative reputation temporarily which could be resolved later .Doesn't the same rules apply to you as well ?For example ,Cryptodevil negative reps any members who even post a comment on ponzi sites,with or without intention.Most of the times the accusation is solved later,I remember Shorena doing the same,negative rep first and remove the tag once the accusation is resolved or if the member comes clean at all.I don't think you should be given special privileges,the DT members should apply the same rules to everybody.Just my two satoshis.  

[Lauda]

Not trying to offend you or something but if it is any other member on the forum due to any causes either a scam accusation is opened or found promoting something which is liable to steal money from users indirectly,DT members without even looking into the matter ,give a negative reputation temporarily which could be resolved later .Doesn't the same rules apply to you as well?

Understood. It would be only natural, according to what you're saying, that the service in question received those ratings first IMO. So mind telling my for what reason am I singled out here, out of so many members (there's at least 1 DT member wearing their signature) and Betcoin itself? After a certain amount of time and accounts it becomes obvious to one.

I don't think you should be given special privileges,the DT members should apply the same rules to everybody.Just my two satoshis.

I'm not and I haven't done anything wrong either. What you're saying would only be fair in case that every single participant receives that negative rating.

[Joel_Jantsen]

Understood. It would be only natural, according to what you're saying, that the service in question received those ratings first IMO. So mind telling my for what reason am I singled out here, out of so many members (there's at least 1 DT member wearing their signature) and Betcoin itself? After a certain amount of time and accounts it becomes obvious to one.

Frankly speaking,I don't think it makes much sense to apply special signature rules to Staff as well.As said,there are more than 30 members carrying the signature of betcoin.ag who should be equally responsible for promoting the casino.No special actions needs to be taken just because you're a "Staff".

I'm not and I haven't done anything wrong either. What you're saying would only be fair in case that every single participant receives that negative rating.

Correct.Otherwise,makes it look like a personal attack.

[ndnh]

My last pm to you over 24 hours ago got no response so here we are

AFAIK we don't have a 24 hour deadline for PMs yet lol.

Understood. It would be only natural, according to what you're saying, that the service in question received those ratings first IMO. So mind telling my for what reason am I singled out here, out of so many members (there's at least 1 DT member wearing their signature) and Betcoin itself? After a certain amount of time and accounts it becomes obvious to one.

Frankly speaking,I don't think it makes much sense to apply special signature rules to Staff as well.As said,there are more than 30 members carrying the signature of betcoin.ag who should be equally responsible for promoting the casino.No special actions needs to be taken just because you're a "Staff".

I'm not and I haven't done anything wrong either. What you're saying would only be fair in case that every single participant receives that negative rating.

Correct.Otherwise,makes it look like a personal attack.

Lauda responded by posting a BS disclaimer

Another personal attack against Lauda.  I don't know if it's because Lauda represents the establishment that has labelled QS a scammer, or he just hates Lauda because Lauda is honest.

This is not a personal attack against Lauda - May be BetSoft or Betcoin.ag could call that.. I can see both sides. OP thinks that being a staff, Lauda should not promote this particular site.