.

[Vladimir]

.

[1715499383]

1715499383

[1715499383]

1715499383

[Bowjob]

Umm.. who are you and why do you know these things?

[Indemnified]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

That's a pretty fucking sleezy post.  It adds absolutely  nothing to the consciousness of the situation, there is no information, only blarney and it is a blatant attempt at manipulating the price for a quick gain. I'm embarrassed for you.

And I'm a bitcoin enthusiast!

You appear to be a manipulating opportunist.

[drawingthesun]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

Speaking of hundreds of millions of people using Bitcoin, has that pesky 7 transactions per second cap been figured out yet? That might stop mass adoption.

[Serenata]

Dear Vladimir,
You took the time to write your post, which tells us nothing in particular and there is no way for us to tell if it's true or not. I have two questions for you:
1) Why did you do that?
2) What do you expect US to do after we read your post?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Umm.. who are you and why do you know these things?

He is an ex-Director of Bittalk Media Ltd. that used to publish famous Bitcoin Magazine.
It was his job to know things like one described in the original post.

[justusranvier]

Speaking of hundreds of millions of people using Bitcoin, has that pesky 7 transactions per second cap been figured out yet? That might stop mass adoption.

Sure. Just put the block size limit back to where it was before it was temporarily reduced to 1MB.

[drawingthesun]

Speaking of hundreds of millions of people using Bitcoin, has that pesky 7 transactions per second cap been figured out yet? That might stop mass adoption.

Sure. Just put the block size limit back to where it was before it was temporarily reduced to 1MB.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, I was under the impression the cap was always 1MB and set by Satoshi himself.

[Wilikon]

Why should we be concerned one way or another about people "manipulating the market"?

What is bitcoin? Let will Smith tell you (Well... actually every time you hear a certain name, just switch it in your head with the word BITCOIN or NAKAMOTO (loud).
It will go up. It will go down. It cannot be destroyed even if it is.

http://youtu.be/ysoTtAon43Q

 

[WiW]

Just recently I was wondering, why wouldn't Warren Buffet publicly announce random stocks he's investing in, let the whole world go crazy to follow his lead and then sell? Like this post?

Please move to "specualtion"

+1

Speaking of hundreds of millions of people using Bitcoin, has that pesky 7 transactions per second cap been figured out yet? That might stop mass adoption.

Sure. Just put the block size limit back to where it was before it was temporarily reduced to 1MB.

+1

[BTC Books]

Please move to "specualtion"

Y'know... that might not be appropriate.

Consider:  a guy with UID #3380, who registered in Jan. 2011 posted this in Bitcoin Discussion.

Do you think that was a mistake?

[justusranvier]

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, I was under the impression the cap was always 1MB and set by Satoshi himself.

Your impression is incorrect, possibly because the idea that the 1 MB cap has always been present has been deliberately fostered by some people with agendas upon which I can only speculate.

Prior to September 2010 there was no protocol limit on block size, and Satoshi's email messages clearly indicated that he intended the network to scale to very large blocks in the future. MAX_BLOCK_SIZE was added as a temporary anti-spam rule and was always intended to be raised in the future when the network was capable of handing it and needed the extra capacity.

Those who say the limit was always present as a deliberate economic rule are dissembling.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153330.msg1636427#msg1636427

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09964.html

[Nemesis]

Dear Vladimir,
You took the time to write your post, which tells us nothing in particular and there is no way for us to tell if it's true or not. I have two questions for you:
1) Why did you do that?
2) What do you expect US to do after we read your post?

Are you fcking stupid?

He wants price to keep going up.

If you have any idea, never listen to him. None of his projects.... ever succeed in the past.... cough... Bitcoin Magazine

[drawingthesun]

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, I was under the impression the cap was always 1MB and set by Satoshi himself.

Your impression is incorrect, possibly because the idea that the 1 MB cap has always been present has been deliberately fostered by some people with agendas upon which I can only speculate.

Prior to September 2010 there was no protocol limit on block size, and Satoshi's email messages clearly indicated that he intended the network to scale to very large blocks in the future. MAX_BLOCK_SIZE was added as a temporary anti-spam rule and was always intended to be raised in the future when the network was capable of handing it and needed the extra capacity.

Those who say the limit was always present as a deliberate economic rule are dissembling.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153330.msg1636427#msg1636427

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09964.html

This makes me a little upset. If it wasn't intended and within the year this block size will hold the whole of the network back.

I suggested a solution to not having enough bandwidth or space for a null node that people could be a apart of smaller nodes and share the load.

[justusranvier]

This makes me a little upset. If it wasn't intended and within the year this block size will hold the whole of the network back.

It seems like the limit will be increased eventually. Whether or not this happens before the transaction volume overtakes the current 1 MB maximum is an open question.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=135

There is a non-voluntary, hard-to-change, 1,000,000-bytes-of-transactions-per-block limit that needs to be raised.

And there is… uhh, “vigorous”… debate over when and how to change it. There are always debates over changing things; after the huge kerfuffle last year over multisignature transactions I had to step back and take a break when it was all over, I was so burned out from trying to respond to all the fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

I think a consensus on what to do is starting to emerge; I expect by my next development update we’ll have a plan.

The good news is we all learned a lot from that experience, so I’m confident that raising the 1MB limit will be only slightly painful for most people– you’ll just have to upgrade old Bitcoin software (which you should be doing regularly anyway).

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Umm.. who are you and why do you know these things?

1. He is russian, russians are like that.
2. Let me guess...

If this is a really as BIG thing as Vladimir is describing it, then I can think of one thing:

Russia does not like dollar very much. China also. So do probably other asian countries. They may be conspiring to replace dollar in the role of world's reserve currency with Bitcoin.

If that is true, then price will skyrocket to about 100 x of what is it now, and even more.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

If this is a really as BIG thing as Vladimir is describing it, then I can think of one thing:

Russia does not like dollar very much. China also. So do probably other asian countries. They may be conspiring to replace dollar in the role of world's reserve currency with Bitcoin.

LOL, nice one. But this kind of BIG is to a different Vladimir please.

Ok so then a smaller thing.

[BTC Books]

If this is a really as BIG thing as Vladimir is describing it, then I can think of one thing:

Russia does not like dollar very much. China also. So do probably other asian countries. They may be conspiring to replace dollar in the role of world's reserve currency with Bitcoin.

LOL, nice one. But this kind of BIG is to a different Vladimir please.

Ok so then a smaller thing.

Cyprus could use a new currency.  That's small.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Regarding how big is BIG in Bitcoin. There is Vladimir's Axiom that I have published some long time ago.

"No entity with market cap larger than that of Bitcoin shall adopt it "

If that is true, then really really BIG for Bitcoin is something around half a Billion. This kind of excludes all the nation states. Cyprus, for comparison, needs about 20 billion USD to sort themselves out. Bitcoin is out of its league there so far.

And how BIG exactly will be this your "thing" ?

Can you at least give us a range - like "from 1 billion to 2 billion" ?

[BTC Books]

Regarding how big is BIG in Bitcoin. There is Vladimir's Axiom that I have published some long time ago.

"No entity with market cap larger than that of Bitcoin shall adopt it "

If that is true, then really really BIG for Bitcoin is something around half a Billion. This kind of excludes all the nation states. Cyprus, for comparison, needs about 20 billion USD to sort themselves out. Bitcoin is out of its league there so far.

I like that axiom.

If bitcoin were a company, one would worry about a takeover if it confronted a larger entity.  As it is, bitcoin appears to be takeover-proof.

Oh - and bitcoin's M1 doesn't exclude all nation states, does it?  Your very own Parity Watch becomes more interesting...

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

I cannot really put a number on that.

Then this whole topic is useless. Why did you even start it ?

For me "the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous" is worth more like 5-10 billion USD than 500 million USD.

Unless you are talking about some stupid startup that plans to create a non-fractional reserve bank, investment fund or FOREX-like market. That may be worth 100-500 million when it starts.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Regarding how big is BIG in Bitcoin. There is Vladimir's Axiom that I have published some long time ago.

"No entity with market cap larger than that of Bitcoin shall adopt it "

If that is true, then really really BIG for Bitcoin is something around half a Billion. This kind of excludes all the nation states. Cyprus, for comparison, needs about 20 billion USD to sort themselves out. Bitcoin is out of its league there so far.

Won't adoption 500m Bitcoin by 20b entity lead to x40 price? From 70$ to 2800$ per coin?

[BTC Books]

definition of "market cap" here leaves some room for interpretation. What is "market cap" for a nation state. Could it be it's M1? Probably not.

M1 and market cap are different things for nation states. I.e you cannot buy a country for amount of money equal it's M1.

With Bitcoin we somewhat incorrectly use Bitcoin M1 in it's lose definition as number of bitcoins ever mined multiplied by cureent price. This number is also often and perhaps not very accurately used as Bitcooin market cap. This is based on notion that Bitcoin is like a common stock of a company where every coin is a share.

This is true.

Nevertheless, I will offer you a postulate in trade for your axiom:

The first nation state that adopts bitcoin as its legal currency will be the Switzerland of the 21st century.

How very Kipling...

[Monster Tent]

The russian mafia needs a new place to hide its money after getting fleeced in cyprus.

[BTC Books]

The russian mafia needs a new place to hide its money after getting fleeced in cyprus.

They haven't been fleeced yet.  And their carrier task force steams through the Med.

[cypherdoc]

If this is a really as BIG thing as Vladimir is describing it, then I can think of one thing:

Russia does not like dollar very much. China also. So do probably other asian countries. They may be conspiring to replace dollar in the role of world's reserve currency with Bitcoin.

LOL, nice one. But this kind of BIG is to a different Vladimir please.

Haha.   Cmon Vladimir.

You gotta give him credit.

[BTC Books]

Well, I see that morning has come to the EU - price is up over two BTC in the past hour.

Should be an interesting weekend.

[nwbitcoin]

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, I was under the impression the cap was always 1MB and set by Satoshi himself.

Your impression is incorrect, possibly because the idea that the 1 MB cap has always been present has been deliberately fostered by some people with agendas upon which I can only speculate.

Prior to September 2010 there was no protocol limit on block size, and Satoshi's email messages clearly indicated that he intended the network to scale to very large blocks in the future. MAX_BLOCK_SIZE was added as a temporary anti-spam rule and was always intended to be raised in the future when the network was capable of handing it and needed the extra capacity.

Those who say the limit was always present as a deliberate economic rule are dissembling.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153330.msg1636427#msg1636427

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09964.html

There are a number of interesting elements of the bitcoin code which doesn't make sense to someone who just reads the forums.
I know the transaction limit is throttled, and I would guess a number of other elements of the scaling that we are currently discussing is more about power than technology.

Read the original paper, the mail archive and the wiki carefully, and a totally different picture of the potential of bitcoin emerges - one that could easily be a worthy alternative to the global credit card market.

However, taking your investment advice from a few very vague comments on a forum without other info seems stupid!

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, I was under the impression the cap was always 1MB and set by Satoshi himself.

Your impression is incorrect, possibly because the idea that the 1 MB cap has always been present has been deliberately fostered by some people with agendas upon which I can only speculate.

Prior to September 2010 there was no protocol limit on block size, and Satoshi's email messages clearly indicated that he intended the network to scale to very large blocks in the future. MAX_BLOCK_SIZE was added as a temporary anti-spam rule and was always intended to be raised in the future when the network was capable of handing it and needed the extra capacity.

Those who say the limit was always present as a deliberate economic rule are dissembling.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153330.msg1636427#msg1636427

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09964.html

I have nothing against conspiracy theories, but I think you went too far with this one.

Remember that Bitcoin is still an *HIGHLY EXPERIMENTAL* project. So everything about it is experimental, including different parameters (like block size limit).

So it is expected that some amount of mess will be generated for testing/balancement/anti-ddos/security purposes in the early stages.

I think that the fixed limit will be removed soon, however. Because it is necessary for the network to scale.

[klaus]

I speculate the OPEC will drop the Dollar and accept only Bitcoin.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

I speculate the OPEC will drop the Dollar and accept only Bitcoin.

Well, US would have to start World War III or shut down the Internet completely tomorrow (probably by cutting optical fiber cables like they did last time) if that suddenly happened today.

[cho]

Russia does not like dollar very much. China also. So do probably other asian countries. They may be conspiring to replace dollar in the role of world's reserve currency with Bitcoin.

If that is true, then price will skyrocket to about 100 x of what is it now, and even more.

Actually, russia money supply is around 11T RUB, which would put the current bitcoin at around 1 000 000 RUB, that is around 32 000 $.
To put it another way, 140M people in russia, there are not enough bitcoins to give each russian 0.1 BTC.

[cho]

Meanwhile, I set you all up for an epic "I told you so" post.  

Which will be a fail because you haven't really told anything

[BkkCoins]

What possible mechanism could be used for a nation state to adopt Bitcoin as it's legal currency?

They're not going to just announce it and make there existing currency worthless. They would have difficulty trading their existing currency directly for btc. So they would have to trade their currency for dollars or similar currency first, or trade some commodity like oil for btc. They'd have to accumulate enough btc before announcing so as to have a reserve amount useful for transitioning the govt and citizens into it. I don't really see how this can be done successfully except for a country that has a valuable resource like oil to directly fund itself with bitcoins. ie. sell resource for btc and hold the proceeds as the national reserves and control money flow in the country by spending via govt payments.

The process of accumulating and transitioning itself would raise the Bitcoin capitalization by an amount somewhat equivalent to the nation's M1. So to become the defacto controller of the currency it would actually want current Bitcoin market cap to be much lower than it's M1. Then the nation's cap would essentially supplant the bitcoin cap by becoming it's main holder.

[cho]

What possible mechanism could be used for a nation state to adopt Bitcoin as it's legal currency?

Interesting. I think it makes much more sense to create a national blockchain, spawn a good number of "russiacoins" at initialisation time, choose its own growth rules.
Once you've done that you can open your exchange which accepts rubles and delivers RBTC, maybe at a 1:1 parity.
You might need to write some rules allowing you to create RBTC during the exchange period, because you don't know how much rubles people will come and exchange at your desks.

Once that is done and the exchange period is over, you are now in a country where the ruble has been crypto-currency-upgraded, but it is still a national currency, with legal tender inside the country, but with no special international status.
Do you think this scenario is flawed ?
If not, wouldn't the first "national crypto currency" gain international credibility ? I guess a lot of investors, knowing very well that the Fed is more or less a giant printing press, would be happy to sell dollars and buy this new currency, wouldn't they ?

[justusranvier]

If that is true, then price will skyrocket to about 100 x of what is it now, and even more.

Realistically that scenario implies 2-4 more zeros than just 100 times.

[nwbitcoin]

What possible mechanism could be used for a nation state to adopt Bitcoin as it's legal currency?

Interesting. I think it makes much more sense to create a national blockchain, spawn a good number of "russiacoins" at initialisation time, choose its own growth rules.
Once you've done that you can open your exchange which accepts rubles and delivers RBTC, maybe at a 1:1 parity.
You might need to write some rules allowing you to create RBTC during the exchange period, because you don't know how much rubles people will come and exchange at your desks.

Once that is done and the exchange period is over, you are now in a country where the ruble has been crypto-currency-upgraded, but it is still a national currency, with legal tender inside the country, but with no special international status.
Do you think this scenario is flawed ?
If not, wouldn't the first "national crypto currency" gain international credibility ? I guess a lot of investors, knowing very well that the Fed is more or less a giant printing press, would be happy to sell dollars and buy this new currency, wouldn't they ?

That is a phenomenal idea, especially for regions who have to use money they have no control of - like maybe a Euroblock country, or a US state.

Looking at it practically, if you had an area with let's say, 4 million people, but their currency was being issued by a central bank somewhere, these people could use the regional crypto coins for their day to day purchasing, while letting the government carry on using fiat. Each person would have a few bitcoins, and the cap value of the coins wouldn't go to much more than gold today.  Assuming that once people had paid their taxes, their pay packet would be converted to bitcoins.  It would be a win / win because the government auditors wouldn't get upset, as they could still print out money to make the books balance, while the people were not going to get taxed by stealth inflation!

Its far too sensible to be legal!

[00null]

Meanwhile, I set you all up for an epic "I told you so" post.  

Didn't a certain pirate write something quite similar a year ago?

[01BTC10]

Bitcoin will bailout Cyprus if they drop the Euro. 

[tcp_rst]

All current limitations of Bitcoin aside, remember that the entire system is ultimately dependent on Internet connectivity.  Any grand plans for nation state adoption require broadly deployed Internet service.  Yes there are technologies that address this but they are quite immature.  Just saying, it needs to be considered as a factor depending on who you're talking about.  Cyprus, as an example since it's the favorite mention du jour, does not have very good Internet service on the whole.  In fact, it's quite poor.

[Hermel]

My guess: he is referring to plans to bring Bitcoin to the stock exchange - making it tradable with any online broker (e.g. stocktrade) and accessible to billions of investor's funds. I myself have a few ideas about how this could be pulled off.

[Bit_Happy]

...
Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

No regrets if you are able to buy back at $48 to $50 soon.

[Piper67]

Something Big??? Wait for it... WE'RE ALL GOING TO PATTAYA, fuck yeah!!!!  

[herzmeister]

Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors [...] which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame [...]

u mean the next reward halving? 

[Luno]

Something Big??? Wait for it... WE'RE ALL GOING TO PATTAYA, fuck yeah!!!!  

Just heard it on BBC World news: A cyprus government official states that "Cypern is considering adopting an alternative currency outside the Euro economy".

I wetted myself when i heard these words!

Of course this is to put pressure on Andrea Merkel to get a better deal and "alternative currency" suggesting that they are going to invent a Cyprus Dracma, not related to B...... of course.

Nevertheless hearing this on BBC was the shock of the day....

[SomeWhere]

Actually, russia money supply is around 11T RUB, which would put the current bitcoin at around 1 000 000 RUB, that is around 32 000 $.
To put it another way, 140M people in russia, there are not enough bitcoins to give each russian 0.1 BTC.

Or to give each Russian 10000000 satoshis.

[cho]

All current limitations of Bitcoin aside, remember that the entire system is ultimately dependent on Internet connectivity.  Any grand plans for nation state adoption require broadly deployed Internet service.  Yes there are technologies that address this but they are quite immature.  Just saying, it needs to be considered as a factor depending on who you're talking about.  Cyprus, as an example since it's the favorite mention du jour, does not have very good Internet service on the whole.  In fact, it's quite poor.

That's an interesting point. I would add, though, that there already much, much more internet connected devices than bank-connected devices.
Furthermore, the national crypto currency does not need to replace paper notes, and paper notes can be used for small amounts where no Internet connectivity exists. Just like today with fiat currencies...

The troubling part of this national crypto-currency scenario might be with tax and accounting laws.
Would the "clever" country demand from its citizens that they declare the full list of their crypto-currency adresses, allowing the tax services to monitor each and every digital money transfer ?

[cho]

To put it another way, 140M people in russia, there are not enough bitcoins to give each russian 0.1 BTC.

Or to give each Russian 10000000 satoshis.
[/quote]
If your intent is to point that 0.1 BTC is large enough, you are right. I didn't mean to imply that there are too few bitcoins, I just wanted to show how rich we are even with a few bitcoins

[Rampion]

Dear Vladimir,
You took the time to write your post, which tells us nothing in particular and there is no way for us to tell if it's true or not. I have two questions for you:
1) Why did you do that?
2) What do you expect US to do after we read your post?

1. Just teasing you. But some people might take some action based on this information. These people do know who they are and what to do.

2. I have no expectations of any action from anyone. Safe to ignore.

My friend... I think most of intelligent people knows that the wise strategy with bitcoin is:

- INVEST ONLY WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOOSE
- BUY AND HOLD, FULL POINT

If you follow those two simple rules you will be OK with bitcoin

[JohnCoins]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

I'm not sure where you heard about our projects from, but I respectfully ask that you do not repeat them on the forums in this manner.  Thank you.

[Piper67]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

I'm not sure where you heard about out projects from, but I respectfully ask that you do not repeat them on the forums in this manner.  Thank you.

Yeah, Vladimir. Pics or it didn't happen.

[Jaagu]

Quote 1:

...the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Quote 2:

hedge funds get their name because they hedge their positions on the market
example go long on oil futures and long on airlines stocks
1 if oil goes up let the oil futures run in profits cut the airlines stock
2 if oil goes down cut the futures and let the airlines stock run in profits how you hedge in bitcoin world?

Originally hedge funds used to hedge, as in your example, but nowadays any strategy goes. Being long in BTC is a possibility. The problem however, is that they normally want to buy financial products within a strict legal framework. The Coinlab deal is a first step towards making this possible, the ultimate goal would be a Bitcoin ETF.

Quote 3:
"'While silver can get to $15 or $20 before it's all said and done, the actual launching of the silver ETF could mark a short-term top for silver,' added Peter Grandich, noting that the silver ETF could represent a 'buy the rumor, sell the news' trade." /.../ "Analysts are also warning about potential confusion over the tax structure of precious-metals ETFs. Under current tax law, long-term gains from the sale of silver are taxed as 'collectibles' like artwork. Therefore, if held for more than a year, gains on the silver ETF would be taxed at a maximum rate of 28%, compared with 15% for so-called long-term gains on stocks. If sold in less than a year, gains are taxed as ordinary income.'
- Ben Jones. Metals Dip On Profit Taking, ETF Worries. April 04, 2006.
http://moneyandmetals.blogspot.com/2006/04/metals-dip-on-profit-taking-etf.html

Quote 4:
The gold ETF is being proved to be a sham, not convincingly so, but enough to anyone harboring a suspicious mind. Stories abound within ETF’s regarding shorting gold via futures, buying 10 cents worth of gold per dollar held, lack of transparency, unaccountability under the false guise of security concerns, and avoidance of SEC requirements enough to earn a formal investigation. Eventually, we will learn that on a good day, a fractionally managed gold ETF is right on target with their reality. My uglier view is that ETF’s will morph into non-producing hedge firms, simple queer adjunct skeletal illicitly controlled shams linked to the hedged mining firms themselves, whose certificates are fully mixed, those valid vaulted very real with those leased vanished never to be seen again. For smart people to trust the ETF offerings is evidence of utter complete stupidity in my book. Jim Turk’s original suspicions might have been met with calls of competitive bias, but no more. His concerns have all been borne out as authentic. He is a true gold patriot. For the precious metal community to embrace the upcoming silver ETF is beyond my comprehension.
Such trust reminds me of the Iraq War and calls of weapons of mass destruction. Now Iran is a nuclear threat. Have we learned anything about disinformation? How intelligent is the gold community? Don’t confuse zeal and stubbornness for intelligence and craft. If Fanny Mae launched an ETF for housing investors, would we trust it? A credible argument can be made that the hedged gold institutions (within the establishment of the goomba World Gold Council to manage the gold ETF) is akin to the mafia managing the lending operations for the Teamster’s Union retirement fund. How is that working out? The streetTRACKS gold ETF (GLD) will have a similar fate someday, in managed receivership by some official steward.
- Jim Willie CB. Why USFed Hikes, Unspoken. February 16, 2006
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/65/3825/2006-02-16.asp?nid=3825&fb=1&wid=65&ntyp=EMA
http://economicrot.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_economicrot_archive.html#114037421219143602

Quote 5:
It's like fractional reserve banking....one bar "owned" by 10 different entities.
Bottom line is if you own precious metal ETF's you own PAPER!
- thinkiam Jul 15 01:14 PM Comment on an article "Warnings to Precious Metal ETF Investors - Buyer Beware!"
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/121744-mark-anthony/13311-warnings-to-precious-metal-etf-investors-buyer-beware

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

I'm not sure where you heard about our projects from, but I respectfully ask that you do not repeat them on the forums in this manner.  Thank you.

Sorry Vladimir, I didn't buy this.

This should really be moved to "Speculation".

[Herodes]

Umm.. who are you and why do you know these things?

Vladimir - a son of Soviet Russia - he knows. I tell you, he knows.

We must all know that the russians know everything. They are the greatest!!!

Here's proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMgWyoUDfUg

[Elwar]

I know exactly what he is talking about. As someone who has personally watched the Davinci Code I can consider myself an expert at decifering puzzles.

He mentions behind "closed doors" like the closed door of a closet, a closet which he is in. This would mean that Vladamir is gay and that he will be coming out of the closet in 2015.

"some serious projects are being underwritten"
"If these projects come to fruition"

Now the part about "very important for Bitcoin things"...who is the most important person in gay society? Liberace.


Vladamir is going to buy a large blinged out pink Liberace type of piano with Bitcoins.

"Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it"

No you are so silly Vladamir. I doubt a pink piano purchase will change the price of bitcoins by much.

[Astro]

If the news is that Russia sucks a big fat one, sorry, but that news has been out for the better part of a century.

[chmod755]

Of course do not listen to me. All the scammers, ponzi promoters, pool hoppers, fraudsters,  cheating pool ops and their fans as well as other assorted assholes will tell you that.

Meanwhile, I set you all up for an epic "I told you so" post.  

Do it. I'm wondering if it's related to what I heard.

[dishwara]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parting
a. The act or process of separating or dividing.
b. The state of being separated or divided.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ubiquitous
Being or seeming to be everywhere at the same time; omnipresent:
having or seeming to have the ability to be everywhere at once; omnipresent

[jgarzik]

Well,

While having absolutely no idea what Vladimir is talking about,

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

[Elwar]

Well,

While having absolutely no idea what Vladimir is talking about,

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

True, it is still winter after all. Most people still keep their doors closed.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

If u can't give more info let's play a game. Choose a word that decribes these things in the best way and let us know how many letters in the word and what the 1st letter is.

[RodeoX]

I'd call bull $#!t if it wasn't Vlad. What are you up to bro?

[SgtSpike]

This from the guy who has Bitcoins in the 6-digits worth USD in the 8-digits.

[mccorvic]

I'm going our on a limb here, but I have a guess:

Hats. All kinds of hats.  bitcoinhats.com

[cbeast]

A thread befitting of Matthew. 

[Elwar]

I'm going our on a limb here, but I have a guess:

Hats. All kinds of hats.  bitcoinhats.com

Hmm...this is just crazy enough to work...this will be HUGE!

[jgarzik]

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

I doubt this one, cause bitcoin foundation hasn't done anything beside have someone else redesign a website, after they asked too, and throw an overcharge conference.

Who said it has anything at all to do with the Bitcoin Foundation?

You conspiracy nuts are... nuts.

[gweedo]

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

I doubt this one, cause bitcoin foundation hasn't done anything beside have someone else redesign a website, after they asked too, and throw an overcharge conference.

Who said it has anything at all to do with the Bitcoin Foundation?

You conspiracy nuts are... nuts.

What more closed then the bitcoin foundation, but if it has nothing to do with that, which I doubt, then share what does it involved gives us more information. LOL I like how you call me nuts indirectly, cause I am pretty sane LMAO

[Herodes]

Well,

While having absolutely no idea what Vladimir is talking about,

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

Yes - we have no doubt that things are playing out in the background. As you're one to trust, I take your words at face value. However, you must be aware of Vladimir's grandious personality, and due to his russian heritage (chuckle), you can be sure to know that at least 10% of what's coming from him is worth believing. With the current momentum bitcoin has, it's no wonder that things are happening behind the scenes. It will be interesting in the future to see what this is.

[chmod755]

What more closed then the bitcoin foundation, but if it has nothing to do with that, which I doubt, then share what does it involved gives us more information. LOL I like how you call me nuts indirectly, cause I am pretty sane LMAO

The places you haven't even heard about.... Vladimir is not a member btw.

[chmod755]

Wasn't talking about vlad, we all know he aint a member and I was talking to jgarzik, you can read the context right in that post.

If you stopped reading every post and taking other people on bitcointalk.org serious you'd have enough time to provide a good alternative to the Bitcoin Foundation....

[Aseras]

Well,

While having absolutely no idea what Vladimir is talking about,

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

are you surfing the forums without pants again?

[lebing]

While there is a good possibility he does actually have insider knowledge, this 2 year, big things for bitcoin is a bit obvious, no? I would be VERY surprised if in two years we werent well on our way to ubiquity in some meat space niches and considered "mainstream" on the internet by then.

[sgbett]

When Cyprus end up one of the richest nations in the world because it switched to BTC first how much whining are all the other countries going to do about the unfairness of the early adopter advantage?

[Manticore]

My guess: he is referring to plans to bring Bitcoin to the stock exchange - making it tradable with any online broker (e.g. stocktrade) and accessible to billions of investor's funds. I myself have a few ideas about how this could be pulled off.

That's exactly what I was thinking....but it would take a great deal of time and a much much much larger market cap. If BTC shows growth & resilience over the next few years, this would be an obvious outcome. I assume it would fall under CFTC jurisdiction. This kind of talk is extremely premature, of course.

[Manticore]

My guess: he is referring to plans to bring Bitcoin to the stock exchange - making it tradable with any online broker (e.g. stocktrade) and accessible to billions of investor's funds. I myself have a few ideas about how this could be pulled off.

And there's no mystery to how it could be pulled off. FOREX.

[simonk83]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

That's a pretty fucking sleezy post.  It adds absolutely  nothing to the consciousness of the situation, there is no information, only blarney and it is a blatant attempt at manipulating the price for a quick gain. I'm embarrassed for you.

And I'm a bitcoin enthusiast!

You appear to be a manipulating opportunist.

That certainly seems to be his MO, from what I've seen over the years at least.  He's one to ignore.

[DoomDumas]

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not, I was under the impression the cap was always 1MB and set by Satoshi himself.

Your impression is incorrect, possibly because the idea that the 1 MB cap has always been present has been deliberately fostered by some people with agendas upon which I can only speculate.

Prior to September 2010 there was no protocol limit on block size, and Satoshi's email messages clearly indicated that he intended the network to scale to very large blocks in the future. MAX_BLOCK_SIZE was added as a temporary anti-spam rule and was always intended to be raised in the future when the network was capable of handing it and needed the extra capacity.

Those who say the limit was always present as a deliberate economic rule are dissembling.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153330.msg1636427#msg1636427

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09964.html

+1

Wow ! This is an informed and toughfull post.

Gratz & thanks

[oakpacific]

Vladimir, what about putting that into a piece of text, timestamping it and give us the hash?

[oakpacific]

Thank you very much, seems that you are really onto something.

I will store it in a safe place.

[Melbustus]

Vladimir, what about putting that into a piece of text, timestamping it and give us the hash?

fair request.

SHA256

ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

Now can we get that in MD5 ?

[oakpacific]

Vladimir, what about putting that into a piece of text, timestamping it and give us the hash?

fair request.

SHA256

ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

Now can we get that in MD5 ?

MD5 is not collision resistant, doesn't matter a lot though.

[benjamindees]

Based on the source, there is almost no way that this could actually be good for Bitcoin.  And there's no way that this doesn't involve the Bitcoin Foundation.  I would be happy to eat those words, but I'm just calling it as I see it.

This is pretty much what I'm envisioning:

[camolist]

Sure,  

Here is your md5

9cdfb439c7876e703e307864c9167a15


Rainbow tables anyone? I am always happy to encourage fellow information security (or insecurity) experts.

how about sha256? if we get a collision there we have bigger problems 


interesting thread none the less. smells of pump and dump BUT i am sure things ARE happening

[oakpacific]

Sure,  

Here is your md5

9cdfb439c7876e703e307864c9167a15


Rainbow tables anyone? I am always happy to encourage fellow information security (or insecurity) experts.

how about sha256? if we get a collision there we have bigger problems 


interesting thread none the less. smells of pump and dump BUT i am sure things ARE happening

He posted sha256 first.

[camolist]

He posted sha256 first.

missed that 

LOL, how do you know that I do not want you to think that it is a pump and dump so that I can buy lower?

no worries. you will not be buying my BTC anytime soon

[Come-from-Beyond]

Vladimir, what about putting that into a piece of text, timestamping it and give us the hash?

fair request.

SHA256

ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

Looking at Vladimir's avatar signature I bet hashed message contains not more than 50 characters. Not so many combinations, is there anyone with a mining rig?

[GeoRW]

In 2 years, bitcoin is either well established and known currency or very much dead after another epic crash and disinterest. Nothing in between.

[Chaz]

Now can we get that in MD5 ?

Sure,  

Here is your md5

9cdfb439c7876e703e307864c9167a15


Rainbow tables anyone? I am always happy to encourage fellow information security (or insecurity) experts.

md5("lol") = "9cdfb439c7876e703e307864c9167a15"



edit: oh you already said 

[XxionxX]

As a forum noob who doesn't know members all that well... What is going on in this thread!? I am bullish on bitcoin, but this feels like market manipulation. I can just feel the hype. I am still investing because of the fundamentals but this is the first set of hype which has even made me pause.

I can't tell if this is good or bad :/

[yokosan]

I am bullish on bitcoin, but this feels like market manipulation. I can just feel the hype. I am still investing because of the fundamentals but this is the first set of hype which has even made me pause.

I can't tell if this is good or bad :/

I agree. This is almost Bruce Wagner level hype.

I'm still waiting on that round the world Bitcoin boat cruise.

[johnyj]

My best guess is that AMD will start to mass produce ASIC devices, look at their stock price... this is their only chance to return to profit

[drawingthesun]

This from the guy who has Bitcoins in the 6-digits worth USD in the 8-digits.

Your implying he has at least 200,000 Bitcoins? If so this guy is very very wealthy.

[Aseras]

This from the guy who has Bitcoins in the 6-digits worth USD in the 8-digits.

Your implying he has at least 200,000 Bitcoins? If so this guy is very very wealthy.

You can't cash out only lately can you drop >10000 coins without crashing the market.

[Elwar]

I believe this secretive OP thread over some kid with 3 posts trying to get BTC at a good price.

[Beta-coiner1]

In 2 years, bitcoin is either well established and known currency or very much dead after another epic crash and disinterest. Nothing in between.

Lol,During the time period when I first read this forum this is exactly what individuals were saying after the crash and you know what happened I bought a good amount........the rest is history.

[vokain]

i like you 

[xavier]

LOL


So Vladimir, you are friends with Winklevii?

[vokain]

LOL


So Vladimir, you are friends with Winklevii?

I remember when I could've bought shares from Bittalk Media

[cypherdoc]

Vladimir, what about putting that into a piece of text, timestamping it and give us the hash?

fair request.

SHA256

ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

here you go

# sha256 -s "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013"
SHA256 ("a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013") = ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

FYI it will take 6-18 month to go from the initial filing to the ETF actually trading.

very nice. 

[bitfair]

This was an epic "I told you so" thread.

But it happens that "I told you so" is the most annoying thing to hear, so I hate you for that. [Although I recognise it is the most satisfying thing to say, so I would have done it too.]

[BitChick]

So Vladimir you are obviously bullish on the Winklevii news.

Some people are just shrugging and do not seem so excited.  With the big fall of the BTC price today it seems it has had a negative affect on the price of BTC if anything at all.  (of course, I think perhaps this news may have kept he price from falling any further and most of the falling price was due to Mt. Gox Withdrawal issues)

All that said, what are your projections based on this news?  I am curious since you seem to have some insider info.

[vokain]

So Vladimir you are obviously bullish on the Winklevii news.

Some people are just shrugging and do not seem so excited.  With the big fall of the BTC price today it seems it has had a negative affect on the price of BTC if anything at all.  (of course, I think perhaps this news may have kept he price from falling any further and most of the falling price was due to Mt. Gox Withdrawal issues)

All that said, what are your projections based on this news?  I am curious since you seem to have some insider info.

Worth noting from the wording (imho of course), Vlad also seems to have high confidence it will actually be approved.

FYI it will take 6-18 month to go from the initial filing to the ETF actually trading.

[mjosephs]

here you go

# sha256 -s "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013"
SHA256 ("a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013") = ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

Er, GNU coreutils sha256sum sez:


$ echo "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013" | sha256sum
2ad1e2ee56307f7df4f6a043a25e4df5a30b2947f158503bfe113e66e26b7dd3  -


[blink] y u no match? [/blink]

[vokain]

probably a character or two missing or added

[chufchuf]

So Vladimir you are obviously bullish on the Winklevii news.

Some people are just shrugging and do not seem so excited.  With the big fall of the BTC price today it seems it has had a negative affect on the price of BTC if anything at all.  (of course, I think perhaps this news may have kept he price from falling any further and most of the falling price was due to Mt. Gox Withdrawal issues)

All that said, what are your projections based on this news?  I am curious since you seem to have some insider info.

Worth noting from the wording (imho of course), Vlad also seems to have high confidence it will actually be approved.

FYI it will take 6-18 month to go from the initial filing to the ETF actually trading.

who cares- if it isn't approved, its submitted again, and if not in that country, in another etc, its coming, so run ye bears

[mjosephs]

probably a character or two missing or added

Or he just made it up?

No srsly, I'm really wondering what "sha256" program he's using.  Neither GNU coreutils (the sha256sum on every Linux box, every distro) nor the perl shasum script have a "-s" command line option.

[BitChick]

So Vladimir you are obviously bullish on the Winklevii news.

Some people are just shrugging and do not seem so excited.  With the big fall of the BTC price today it seems it has had a negative affect on the price of BTC if anything at all.  (of course, I think perhaps this news may have kept he price from falling any further and most of the falling price was due to Mt. Gox Withdrawal issues)

All that said, what are your projections based on this news?  I am curious since you seem to have some insider info.

Worth noting from the wording (imho of course), Vlad also seems to have high confidence it will actually be approved.

FYI it will take 6-18 month to go from the initial filing to the ETF actually trading.

who cares- if it isn't approved, its submitted again, and if not in that country, in another etc, its coming, so run ye bears

I hope so.  I don't know how the price dipped after this news.  I think it is very bullish.  I would think it could send the price higher then ever.  But I am so often wrong on these things, unfortunately.

[marvinrouge]

here you go

# sha256 -s "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013"
SHA256 ("a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013") = ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

Er, GNU coreutils sha256sum sez:


$ echo "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013" | sha256sum
2ad1e2ee56307f7df4f6a043a25e4df5a30b2947f158503bfe113e66e26b7dd3  -


[blink] y u no match? [/blink]

I got this using an online sha256 tool : ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e [blink]match![/blink]

[Chainsaw]

Whether we like it or not, I think the concept will bring a lot of interest into bitcoin, because it reduces the barrier to entry. And even though they're buying shares of bitcoins, you know how it goes - once you get your first taste of Bitcoin, you can't quit :-)

But none of this will happen for, as said above, 6-18 months minimum.  Until people see it, and it's real, I don't anticipate the news will positively impact price.

Show a Bitcoin ATM, installed and not seized for a period of 7 days, I think the price goes up.
Post the IPO for anything Bitcoin, it gets attention, and the aforementioned benefits, I think the prices goes up.

There's another subtle (and evil) benefit to their concept.

They began with 200,000 shares. As people invest, they get more money. Which will allow them to buy more Bitcoins. Which increases the fundamental value of their stock.

So long as people arbitrage against their stock, the stock will self-sustain continued acquisition, which will continue to fuel an increase in value.

Can someone check my logic on this?  It seems as if, by attaching itself to the value of Bitcoin, then putting that asset on an exchange where billions are already traded, and arbitrage opportunities are seized, that this is an eventuality.

And Vladimir - which kidney do I have to give you to get a heads up on this sort of thing next time? 

[vokain]

probably a character or two missing or added

Or he just made it up?

No srsly, I'm really wondering what "sha256" program he's using.  Neither GNU coreutils (the sha256sum on every Linux box, every distro) nor the perl shasum script have a "-s" command line option.

I got this using an online sha256 tool : ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e [blink]match![/blink]

me too
http://awesomescreenshot.com/0b41guy38d

[dillpicklechips]

here you go

# sha256 -s "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013"
SHA256 ("a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013") = ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

Er, GNU coreutils sha256sum sez:


$ echo "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013" | sha256sum
2ad1e2ee56307f7df4f6a043a25e4df5a30b2947f158503bfe113e66e26b7dd3  -


[blink] y u no match? [/blink]

It should be "echo -n " then text.

[vokain]

Who cares- if it isn't approved, its submitted again, and if not in that country, in another etc, its coming, so run ye bears

Yes! It is pretty much expected that this will go back and forth between ETF ops and regulators a few times at least. This is why 6-18 month time scale, not something more specific.

Yes. Of course it is bullish for Bitcoin for a number of reasons, such as:

1. "Early adopters" will be (most likely) able to loan their bitcoins to the trust ops and the thrust ops will want/need this.
2. Significant amount of bitcoins will be held by the trust and as such be removed from circulation.
3. Bitcoin investments will become available to anyone with a brokerage account, all within familiar paradigm/ui.
4. Eventually, the next step would be having proper options traded on bitcoin by making this trust optionable and as such Bitcoin will become optionable. This in turn will enable a variety of new business models that require currency exchange risk mitigation, for example, portfolio loans (you own bitcoin, want to buy a house, instead of selling bitcoin and paying capital gains taxes  and/or taking a mortgage you can simply give your Bitcoins as collateral to a portfolio loan company and get "portfolio loan").

oh my god if i can retire at the age of 21-22.... thank you based god. I promise I'll spread the good word of the Based.

[Soros Shorts]

here you go

# sha256 -s "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013"
SHA256 ("a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013") = ee404466e9a7cd997aa09f64529dc3bef3e7314357f0e66795cf601beaa7b34e

Er, GNU coreutils sha256sum sez:


$ echo "a publicly traded bitcoin trust (similar to the SPDRs GLD Trust) Sat Mar 23 07:28:57 GMT 2013" | sha256sum
2ad1e2ee56307f7df4f6a043a25e4df5a30b2947f158503bfe113e66e26b7dd3  -


[blink] y u no match? [/blink]

echo probably appended a newline character.

[BitChick]

Who cares- if it isn't approved, its submitted again, and if not in that country, in another etc, its coming, so run ye bears

Yes! It is pretty much expected that this will go back and forth between ETF ops and regulators a few times at least. This is why 6-18 month time scale, not something more specific.

Yes. Of course it is bullish for Bitcoin for a number of reasons, such as:

1. "Early adopters" will be (most likely) able to loan their bitcoins to the trust ops and the thrust ops will want/need this.
2. Significant amount of bitcoins will be held by the trust and as such be removed from circulation.
3. Bitcoin investments will become available to anyone with a brokerage account, all within familiar paradigm/ui.
4. Eventually, the next step would be having proper options traded on bitcoin by making this trust optionable and as such Bitcoin will become optionable. This in turn will enable a variety of new business models that require currency exchange risk mitigation, for example, portfolio loans (you own bitcoin, want to buy a house, instead of selling bitcoin and paying capital gains taxes  and/or taking a mortgage you can simply give your Bitcoins as collateral to a portfolio loan company and get "portfolio loan").

So why is the price not going up like crazy because of this???  Are people just clueless?  I would buy more if I could right now!

[vokain]

So why is the price not going up like crazy because of this???  Are people just clueless?  I would buy more if I could right now!

^ that is exactly the reason. The vast majority of people ARE clueless about Bitcoin. Out of the few who own Bitcoin, the present market makers are currently mired to the price, who are currently panicking. People like you who know better have already possibly expended their capital, possibly because they already believed in the long term, unable to counter the downward pressure.

The general population is insanely ignorant about Bitcoin - and here's proof.

edit: direct link to the proof in question
http://forums.firefallthegame.com/community/threads/will-you-guys-consider-accepting-bitcoin.896741/page-5

[BitChick]

So why is the price not going up like crazy because of this???  Are people just clueless?  I would buy more if I could right now!

^ that is exactly the reason. The vast majority of people ARE clueless about Bitcoin. Out of the few who own Bitcoin, the present market makers are currently mired to the price, who are currently panicking. People like you have already possibly expended their capital, unable to counter the downward pressure.

The general population is insanely ignorant about Bitcoin - and here's proof.

Yes.  Some of us "believers" probably have expended our capital, or the amount we are willing to tie up. 

We are getting more press though thanks in part to the Winklevii.  Granted, it is not always positive but at least it is press.

It just seems like things like this would bring a little more boost.

[vokain]

It will, just not enough..yet. I got several calls yesterday asking if they should purchase in light of this announcement, and it reminds me of the same thing happening a few months back. Adoption rate is a time function...

but we can't just sit on our asses here. Get friends with businesses to accept Bitcoin (coinbase makes it dead easy, also point them towards the lower fees and the instant demand they get from this community. it's at least worth a sale or two in the short term), start your own business. Hell, start mining even, if that's something for you. We can't sit here watching the price expecting to get rich. Our time is worth much more than that.

[Crypt_Current]

Awesome thread.  I've been following it from the start.

To the guy above that says "well then why isn't ... " blah blah blah

Because look (as someone surely already explained):  Me <--  I am bitcoin savvy.  And this is news to me.

You kids with your nintendos and your hula hoops and your mac donalds, think time is nonexistent anymore... well guess what?  stuff takes time.

[humanitee]

Awesome follow up.

Kudos Vlad.

[Crypt_Current]

So why is the price not going up like crazy because of this???  Are people just clueless?  I would buy more if I could right now!

^ that is exactly the reason. The vast majority of people ARE clueless about Bitcoin. Out of the few who own Bitcoin, the present market makers are currently mired to the price, who are currently panicking. People like you who know better have already possibly expended their capital, possibly because they already believed in the long term, unable to counter the downward pressure.

The general population is insanely ignorant about Bitcoin - and here's proof.

ugh... ouch... i am seriously wincing over here... this is a PAINFUL thread to go through
and I thought the speculation subforum is so much painful BS... jesus hay soos OMG
is there any hope for the youth, the generations of tomorrow?
god ffs I am only 33 and this is so effing painful to read

[vokain]

So why is the price not going up like crazy because of this???  Are people just clueless?  I would buy more if I could right now!

^ that is exactly the reason. The vast majority of people ARE clueless about Bitcoin. Out of the few who own Bitcoin, the present market makers are currently mired to the price, who are currently panicking. People like you who know better have already possibly expended their capital, possibly because they already believed in the long term, unable to counter the downward pressure.

The general population is insanely ignorant about Bitcoin - and here's proof.

ugh... ouch... i am seriously wincing over here... this is a PAINFUL thread to go through
and I thought the speculation subforum is so much painful BS... jesus hay soos OMG
is there any hope for the youth, the generations of tomorrow?
god ffs I am only 33 and this is so effing painful to read

Tell me about it, this is my generation.

[xavier]

So why is the price not going up like crazy because of this???  Are people just clueless?  I would buy more if I could right now!

Market is irrational

Traders are irrational

People trade on their emotions

Bubble deflating

Somebody manipulating the market

Also, let's be honest; this announcement doesnt remove the risk involved with bitcoin. If regulations are changed between now and when the ETF is launched, well this announcement really won't mean anything. 18 months is a long time in bitcoin world.

[Pinwheel]

accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

I guess 1 btc will cost too much, how it will be unaccessible otherwise, never mind they will invest in LTC

[Crypt_Current]

So why is the price not going up like crazy because of this???  Are people just clueless?  I would buy more if I could right now!

^ that is exactly the reason. The vast majority of people ARE clueless about Bitcoin. Out of the few who own Bitcoin, the present market makers are currently mired to the price, who are currently panicking. People like you who know better have already possibly expended their capital, possibly because they already believed in the long term, unable to counter the downward pressure.

The general population is insanely ignorant about Bitcoin - and here's proof.

ugh... ouch... i am seriously wincing over here... this is a PAINFUL thread to go through
and I thought the speculation subforum is so much painful BS... jesus hay soos OMG
is there any hope for the youth, the generations of tomorrow?
god ffs I am only 33 and this is so effing painful to read

Tell me about it, this is my generation.

Well sir, the arrow of time tells us many things, amongst them:  "Slaves Shall Serve"
Let's try to be fairer to them in this more intellectual and airy Age of Aquarius, to differentiate from the Age of Aries, when spoken language was relatively new and anyone that could bark commands was looked upon as a god.
Let's be even different than the most recent (and rapidly fading -- Murdoch?) world masters of the Age of Pisces -- those that pretended to care, but impotent and ignorant in technology were not able to manifest such benevolence, no matter how honestly wished for.
The masters of this new age will have in their grasp the technology to FULLY master the environment of the slaves, and hopefully their ignorance will truly be bliss.
"It takes all kinds"

[vokain]

Oh I fully realized that. I'm patient and willing to help them realize themselves (knowing I was like that at one point) but that doesn't mean I can't let off a little steam

[xavier]

Well sir, the arrow of time tells us many things, amongst them:  "Slaves Shall Serve"
Let's try to be fairer to them in this more intellectual and airy Age of Aquarius, to differentiate from the Age of Aries, when spoken language was relatively new and anyone that could bark commands was looked upon as a god.
Let's be even different than the most recent (and rapidly fading -- Murdoch?) world masters of the Age of Pisces -- those that pretended to care, but impotent and ignorant in technology were not able to manifest such benevolence, no matter how honestly wished for.
The masters of this new age will have in their grasp the technology to FULLY master the environment of the slaves, and hopefully their ignorance will truly be bliss.
"It takes all kinds"

Please translate to English?

[BitChick]

Well sir, the arrow of time tells us many things, amongst them:  "Slaves Shall Serve"
Let's try to be fairer to them in this more intellectual and airy Age of Aquarius, to differentiate from the Age of Aries, when spoken language was relatively new and anyone that could bark commands was looked upon as a god.
Let's be even different than the most recent (and rapidly fading -- Murdoch?) world masters of the Age of Pisces -- those that pretended to care, but impotent and ignorant in technology were not able to manifest such benevolence, no matter how honestly wished for.
The masters of this new age will have in their grasp the technology to FULLY master the environment of the slaves, and hopefully their ignorance will truly be bliss.
"It takes all kinds"

Please translate to English?

Arrow of time.  Looked upon as a god.  New Age. . .

Perhaps I should get out of Bitcoin? But not because of the "impending crash."  I did not know I was in some sort of cult here.

[Rampion]

Well,

While having absolutely no idea what Vladimir is talking about,

I can confirm that very big, positive things for bitcoin are happening behind closed doors

So... Did you know this?

[Rampion]

Quote 1:

...the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Quote 2:

hedge funds get their name because they hedge their positions on the market
example go long on oil futures and long on airlines stocks
1 if oil goes up let the oil futures run in profits cut the airlines stock
2 if oil goes down cut the futures and let the airlines stock run in profits how you hedge in bitcoin world?

Originally hedge funds used to hedge, as in your example, but nowadays any strategy goes. Being long in BTC is a possibility. The problem however, is that they normally want to buy financial products within a strict legal framework. The Coinlab deal is a first step towards making this possible, the ultimate goal would be a Bitcoin ETF.

Quote 3:
"'While silver can get to $15 or $20 before it's all said and done, the actual launching of the silver ETF could mark a short-term top for silver,' added Peter Grandich, noting that the silver ETF could represent a 'buy the rumor, sell the news' trade." /.../ "Analysts are also warning about potential confusion over the tax structure of precious-metals ETFs. Under current tax law, long-term gains from the sale of silver are taxed as 'collectibles' like artwork. Therefore, if held for more than a year, gains on the silver ETF would be taxed at a maximum rate of 28%, compared with 15% for so-called long-term gains on stocks. If sold in less than a year, gains are taxed as ordinary income.'
- Ben Jones. Metals Dip On Profit Taking, ETF Worries. April 04, 2006.
http://moneyandmetals.blogspot.com/2006/04/metals-dip-on-profit-taking-etf.html

Quote 4:
The gold ETF is being proved to be a sham, not convincingly so, but enough to anyone harboring a suspicious mind. Stories abound within ETF’s regarding shorting gold via futures, buying 10 cents worth of gold per dollar held, lack of transparency, unaccountability under the false guise of security concerns, and avoidance of SEC requirements enough to earn a formal investigation. Eventually, we will learn that on a good day, a fractionally managed gold ETF is right on target with their reality. My uglier view is that ETF’s will morph into non-producing hedge firms, simple queer adjunct skeletal illicitly controlled shams linked to the hedged mining firms themselves, whose certificates are fully mixed, those valid vaulted very real with those leased vanished never to be seen again. For smart people to trust the ETF offerings is evidence of utter complete stupidity in my book. Jim Turk’s original suspicions might have been met with calls of competitive bias, but no more. His concerns have all been borne out as authentic. He is a true gold patriot. For the precious metal community to embrace the upcoming silver ETF is beyond my comprehension.
Such trust reminds me of the Iraq War and calls of weapons of mass destruction. Now Iran is a nuclear threat. Have we learned anything about disinformation? How intelligent is the gold community? Don’t confuse zeal and stubbornness for intelligence and craft. If Fanny Mae launched an ETF for housing investors, would we trust it? A credible argument can be made that the hedged gold institutions (within the establishment of the goomba World Gold Council to manage the gold ETF) is akin to the mafia managing the lending operations for the Teamster’s Union retirement fund. How is that working out? The streetTRACKS gold ETF (GLD) will have a similar fate someday, in managed receivership by some official steward.
- Jim Willie CB. Why USFed Hikes, Unspoken. February 16, 2006
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/65/3825/2006-02-16.asp?nid=3825&amp;amp;amp;fb=1&wid=65&ntyp=EMA
http://economicrot.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_economicrot_archive.html#114037421219143602

Quote 5:
It's like fractional reserve banking....one bar "owned" by 10 different entities.
Bottom line is if you own precious metal ETF's you own PAPER!
- thinkiam Jul 15 01:14 PM Comment on an article "Warnings to Precious Metal ETF Investors - Buyer Beware!"
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/121744-mark-anthony/13311-warnings-to-precious-metal-etf-investors-buyer-beware

Nice call.

Bitchick: there's no more buying going on because the masses understand only one thing: the price is going Up UP UP, hop on the train before it's too late!

Which is obviously not the case while a bubble deflates.

Price is at a very healthy level considering how shitty is the current infrastructure and at what price BTC was traded one year ago. Just chill.

[BitChick]

Bitchick: there's no more buying going on because the masses understand only one thing: the price is going Up UP UP, hop on the train before it's too late!

Which is obviously not the case while a bubble deflates.

Price is at a very healthy level considering how shitty is the current infrastructure and at what price BTC was traded one year ago. Just chill.

I am completely bullish and have not sold anything.  I would be buying if I did not have all my cash tied up at the moment.

So yes,  just chilling.

I guess I am a little surprised more people were not buying on the Winklevii news.  That is all.

[Rampion]

Bitchick: there's no more buying going on because the masses understand only one thing: the price is going Up UP UP, hop on the train before it's too late!

Which is obviously not the case while a bubble deflates.

Price is at a very healthy level considering how shitty is the current infrastructure and at what price BTC was traded one year ago. Just chill.

I am completely bullish and have not sold anything.  I would be buying if I did not have all my cash tied up at the moment.

So yes,  just chilling.

I guess I am a little surprised more people were not buying on the Winklevii news.  That is all.

Those news (like Cyprus or "Bitcoin is on CCTV") have just a marginal impact on short term price. Very marginal. I wonder why people gives them so much importance, like they need to believe the price of a speculative asset like Bitcoin has some "rational" behind it.

Plus, even if someone that is not yet into Bitcoin decided to invest because saw the Winkle-twins initiative, it will take time for him to figure out how to wire his hard-earned money to Magic The Gathering Online Exchange to trade on their crappy engine.

The fact is that the only significative news is: "the price is consistently going up uP UP!", which as soon as turns to "OMG Bitcoin broke all time high, hop on the train because its leaving the station!!!" leads to media hype and speculative mania -> prices go UP UP UP quicker, and there you have the hype loop leading to a bubble.

The bubble is now deflating. That "news" ("prices are going DOWN Down down!!") are much more relevant to the market NOW than two twins filing a S-1 that may or may not be accepted in the mid-long term. In this scenario people is just willing to realize their profits/cut their losses, and probably look for a better entry point. Just old market psychology at work.

[usagi]

For what is worth. Based on some information that is not public and that I have no intention to disclose, things are happening behind closed doors. There are some serious projects are being underwritten and financed and negotiated right now. If these projects come to fruition, which is likely to happen within 2 years time frame, the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.

Anyone parting with his coins at current silly prices is going to deeply regret it by year 2015.

That's a pretty fucking sleezy post.  It adds absolutely  nothing to the consciousness of the situation, there is no information, only blarney and it is a blatant attempt at manipulating the price for a quick gain. I'm embarrassed for you.

And I'm a bitcoin enthusiast!

You appear to be a manipulating opportunist.

He's saying there are several multi-million dollar groups working on everything from new currencies to compete with bitcoin, new exchanges, new this and that, interfacing with banks, bitcoin investment funds on the nasdaq, whatever. It's just common sense.

In general these groups have nothing to do with this community and no incentive to disclose their plans anyway until they have something to put on the market so you never hear about them.