Someone please make a steem clone

[iamnotback]

webrary

I think that name is sufficient although maybe not the most pizazz.

Storing everything in a library for the web.

I think it implies you want to get in early and grow with it, such as those who got into Bitcoin early.

It seems to also to be more conservative thus separation of impression from the name Steemit and quadratic voting rewards ($40,000 for a single blog while most get only pennies) which seems to be more about hype than a steady, methodical growth plan.


If anyone c
an suggest a better name or if I think of better one later, then great.

I would suggest you think more academia and politics, and less commercial. I'd buy into a project that's trying to create a private and decentralized content sharing platform--I wouldn't buy into steemit 2.0.  It exists and they already have me and a few other rooting them on with the rewards they dole out (except for maybe you ) , their brand has loyalty rewards built into it.

You can be a fanboy all you want. I think it is inviolable that it will implode economically in spite of your well wishes. I'll explain why when I release the white paper showing how I reworked the economics.

Of course we all like it when we are the experts earning $100 - $1000s every week, but the majority are not earning that (most are leaving with an 80% attrition rate).

I am supporting Steemit because it is publicity for blockchain tech and crypto currencies. That doesn't mean I think it can sustain itself economically.

As I said, I will target more on serious producers (and their fans too), but also I will target on mass markets that Steem is not reaching directly. I have specific monetization to go beyond the one degree of relation to a blocknerd which is Steem's current demographics. This monetization will pay bloggers more because they will get more than just the vote rewards.

When I say compete, I mean to win, not to just be a clone. I intend to be far better in critically important ways that determine the winner.

Edit: older demographics share more and not just for entertainment:

https://www.socialmediaexplorer.com/content-sections/cases-and-causes/sharing-habits-motivations-rundown-gender-gap-generational-divide-facebook/

[Divinespark]

I hate to say it as I liked the premise behind the project, but steem looks pretty done.
Time for Synereo to step up to the plate and take this forward

[iamnotback]

This is getting old and redundant, $8000 each for this mediocre blogging (not claiming my blogs were better):

https://steemit.com/life/@inboundinken/why-i-used-to-be-embarrassed-about-my-age-and-why-you-can-be-a-leader-no-matter-how-old-you-are

https://steemit.com/life/@inboundinken/why-i-used-to-be-embarrassed-about-my-age-and-why-you-can-be-a-leader-no-matter-how-old-you-are

And you think Steem is succeeding  

The resources are being wasted. That will blowback as investor's losses eventually.

P.S. Heidi's blog is okay, but she would have some competition if people trusted the whales to not award only to certain individuals. IMO, she should be making at most maybe $1000 per blog post given the current size of the readership and potential growth she is adding to the site. Her long-term upside on each of her blog posts could be acceptibly $8000 but IMO she shouldn't be getting that only as the site grows accordingly, not upfront. It was okay the first time she got $10k for a blog post, but for her to receive that every time she blog posts is making the site look like monotone. If the site appears to not be based on a meritocracy, then serious producers will not likely invest their production in it, because it looks like a failure in the making.

In the context of if her content was just one of many of the same quality, then at say < $1000 each, I would say the site is doing fantastic. But instead we have Heidi at $8000 and nothing else.

Edit: Steemit is giving Heidi a sense of false security:

I was broke as a joke when I joined Steemit, and I made more money in this short span of time then I had in the past 10 years combined. My state of mind in that time period was shocked, excited, and suspicious. After realizing that this platform was for real I started brainstorming for my next trip. I want to provide fresh new material for this amazing community and to take you all with me on the journey ahead.

This won't end well. She will probably end up losing it all.

Heidi admits that she is a risk taker. She is willing to travel nearly homeless and penniless. She reminds me of myself! I did exactly that too! But most people are not like Heidi. They invest cautiously.

(Btw, I am glad Heidi is grabbing the opportunity. My points above are not jealousy against her. I do think though she will only be left with the experiences and not any lasting/residual wealth from this. Well perhaps this notoriety will lead to her next opportunity.)

[TravelsAsia]

Can anyone give me some serious help/feedback on the naming?

Such a minor item. I rather hear about how you plan to fix the Steem shortcomings, number of developers and projected rough timelines.

[iamnotback]

Can anyone give me some serious help/feedback on the naming?

Such a minor item. I rather hear about how you plan to fix the Steem shortcomings, number of developers and projected rough timelines.

Agreed, but I like to have a name for what I am working on. I don't like waiting to figure out a viable name at the end. As for perfecting the name, sure that can wait. Webrary is sufficient for me to launch if nothing better is thought of.

[iamnotback]

https://www.yours.network/

They take a different approach, which is that as a curator you invest in content by tipping it, then you a portion of get downstream curators' tips. Therefor, they don't need their own token to debase (instead they use Bitcoin), as they are assuming people will want to pay their own individual money in order to invest in making money from curating.

The problem I see with this model is that it requires too much cognitive load on the user who just wants to use the site. The higher the cognitive load, the lower the adoption rate. So sorry, I am thinking this idea will fail.

[iamnotback]

webrary

I think that name is sufficient although maybe not the most pizazz.

Storing everything in a library for the web.

...

If anyone can suggest a better name or if I think of better one later, then great.

Okay we've got the 6 letter domain names to blow this shit away. One for the blockchain and another for UI. The UI name is better than Facebook, Reddit and all that.

[iamnotback]

Can anyone give me some serious help/feedback on the naming?

Such a minor item. I rather hear about how you plan to fix the Steem shortcomings, number of developers and projected rough timelines.

Agreed, but I like to have a name for what I am working on. I don't like waiting to figure out a viable name at the end. As for perfecting the name, sure that can wait. Webrary is sufficient for me to launch if nothing better is thought of.

I've teased with some of the elided details of how to fix Steem's shortcomings:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558366.msg15756755#msg15756755

[BitcoinNational]

vote for BOOBS

but more serious
Graphene chains have demonstrated that they can handle the speed and load

[d5000]

I think simply that the Steemit "whales" for the moment are rewarding posts they consider important for the success of Steemit. If they have really the intention of competing with Reddit, Quora & others they must highlight "diverse" topics on their "baby". These topics can seem like complete bullshit to nerds and other technically savy people, but they are important to attract the masses. I don't know if they are choosing really the right topics for this (I personally would appreciate, for example, a lot more of Q&A content) but the intention is clear to me - attract women, "not-so-nerds", etc..

So I think to really know if Steem will be a success or no, we should wait some months. But I would also support a clone.

The real drawback of Steem until now seems to be the pretty centralized model (one central website) that does not differ too much from other communities with custom "currencies" like Taringa (Argentina), Lima-City (Germany) or Second Life.

I would invest in Steem/Steem Power if:
- developers really open source the code (remove the "no forking" restriction);
- they provide a public API for applications like a "Steem button", who could be a major factor for the long-term success of the platform as a content monetization system (as I've highlighted here).

[iamnotback]

but more serious
Graphene chains have demonstrated that they can handle the speed and load

A couple of 1000 users online simultaneously isn't a scaling test yet.

Also afaik DDoS attacks have been directed at Steemit.com. Let's see what happens when they target the Steem blockchain network.

[Mzie]

I would prefer one based more on pictures and videos, like Instagram, instead of long winded justifications and rants.

That's true , actually it's isnt about socializing , but making money

[iamnotback]

Here is the proposed definition (and instruction to voters) of the meaning of an upvote and downvote for the project Webrary (intended to be an improvement over Steem) I am now developing. I want to vet this with y'all, since I am designing the internal algorithms around these. Note Webrary won't be the final name, but I can't mention the final one since don't own the .com domain yet. Like Steem/Steemit there will be separate names for the blockchain/UI respectively. The former name is similar to Webrary, and the latter one is more catchy and has more mass appeal than Steemit.


Voting is the way you control the rankings of the future content you will see. An upvote or downvote is not a weapon to express agreement nor disagreement, nor to judge the value of the content to the overall project. Rather it should reflect whether you personally want to continue to be exposed to content (and the community it engenders) similar to the content you are voting on. An upvote or downvote will not cause the ranking of the content to change for voters who disagree with your content preferences. If you vote for political objectives intending to suppress or enhance visibility of the content for others and not for your preferences, then the type of content visible to you will become a groupthink monotone that fools you into believing everyone agrees with you, while others who disagree with you will continue to see the diversity of content that interests them. Indecision on your part should be reflected in a non-vote. Unlike Steem, voting remains open indefinitely and there is no curation penalty for voting later, so you may vote later once you've made up your mind.

[generalizethis]

Here is the proposed definition (and instruction to voters) of the meaning of an upvote and downvote for the project Webrary (intended to be an improvement over Steem) I am now developing. I want to vet this with y'all, since I am designing the internal algorithms around these. Note Webrary won't be the final name, but I can't mention the final one since don't own the .com domain yet. Like Steem/Steemit there will be separate names for the blockchain/UI respectively. The former name is similar to Webrary, and the latter one is more catchy and has more mass appeal than Steemit.


Voting is the way you control the rankings of the future content you will see. An upvote or downvote is not a weapon to express agreement nor disagreement, nor to judge the value of the content to the overall project. Rather it should reflect whether you personally want to continue to be exposed to content (and the community it engenders) similar to this example. An upvote or downvote will not cause the ranking of the content to change for voters who disagree with your content preferences. If you vote for political objectives intending to suppress or enhance visibility of the content for others and not for your preferences, then the type of content visible to you will become a groupthink monotone that fools you into believing everyone agrees with you, while others who disagree with you will continue to see the diversity of content that interests them. Indecision on your part should be reflected in a non-vote. Unlike Steem, voting remains open indefinitely and there is no curation penalty for voting later, so you can vote later once you've made up your mind.

I like your thinking on upvotes (less trying to game the system and more inviting future content for ease of use).

[CoinBreader]

the problem with clones was that most of the times clones was ready to scam , now days some original coins scaming instantly and you have nothing to wait from a clone , well expect some hype!

[generalizethis]

the problem with clones was that most of the times clones was ready to scam , now days some original coins scaming instantly and you have nothing to wait from a clone , well expect some hype!

http://www.resistors-and-diodes-and-picchips-oh-my.co.uk/?p=1210

I think the decentralization=scam argument failed when it hit mass market, so they only needed to package it to the tastes of the market, not the taste of standard purveyors--good enough trumps--inflated price--yet quality concerns remain. The product needs to be resilient, the interface simple, and costs minimal. Whoever does that, wins.  

*Was looking for the French pronunciation of ingénue and found :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenu

38+20=130 That's efficiency.

My guess is this network thrives with resistance to tampering and leveraging a world distribution of content at ever lowering costs, until a base forms and liquidity trickles in.

That's it--if you're looking for word count and fancy euphemisms, then you missed the point of capitalism--efficiency equals time

....and everyone wants more.

/end

[iamnotback]

I am thinking that Steem/Steemit made a mistake to do their client-server data transfer via WebSockets instead of REST.

They appear to have designed for a real-time update scenario, but this will come at the cost scalability (because WebSockets can't be cached upstream), and afaics the real-time updates are entirely unnecessary for the feature set of this type of site. This isn't chat and blog commenting shouldn't be used a real-time interactive chat.

I don't think Steem could scale technically to a million users as it currently is designed. Certainly not 100 million users.

That doesn't mean they couldn't do some redesign along the way, but the existing paradigm is gaining inertia that will be difficult to turn quickly, e.g. the new Steemit phone app. And the design choice they made is baked into many design decisions, such as that comments and blog posts are editable many hours after posting.

[iamnotback]

My thoughts about the major vulnerabilities of Steem:

Smooth much better if you don't cash any out and buy more STEEM POWER. Why not put your $ where your confidence is?

I'll consider it

Anyway, I never claimed Steem is perfect nor that it will clearly succeed, but it does have a big first mover advantage, isn't terrible, has decent size user base for a crypto (even factoring in the large number of scammer accounts) and is still growing. Thus, I don't think it is certainly doomed. Uncertainty prevails.

The big uncertainty is whether they will remove the quadratic vote weighting and remove the whales' voting power. If they don't do that, they are dead. And if they remove the quadratic voting, they shift their target demographics significantly so there is a lot of risk in that change/transition.

Even if they do that, they are still vulnerable to competition, primarily because Bitcoin investors will prefer one that wasn't so egregiously "pre"-mined and also one where the blockchain is not prevented by license from being forked.

And also it seems there is no way it can be defended against a competitor which removes the stupid 50% yearly (currently 150%!) debasement of medium-term investors. Which I have a design that can do that.

In short, they probably can't make such big changes.

Those are the big picture reasons, that you apparently do not see clearly yet, but I do.

Also there are other issues that I have been mentioning such as better relevance and scaling design.

Moreover, why don't you buy any? As far as I know, you've never bought any significant amount of STEEM POWER. It was all "gifted" to you (okay some effort to research and mine it, also to build your reputation which made you a good asset for them to coddle).

All of us have our confirmation biases. Yours is that you didn't risk anything consumerate to obtain your stake and mine is obvious that I want to think I can compete.

[bbc.reporter]

I am thinking that Steem/Steemit made a mistake to do their client-server data transfer via WebSockets instead of REST.

They appear to have designed for a real-time update scenario, but this will come at the cost scalability (because WebSockets can't be cached upstream), and afaics the real-time updates are entirely unnecessary for the feature set of this type of site. This isn't chat and blog commenting shouldn't be used a real-time interactive chat.

I don't think Steem could scale technically to a million users as it currently is designed. Certainly not 100 million users.

That doesn't mean they couldn't do some redesign along the way, but the existing paradigm is gaining inertia that will be difficult to turn quickly, e.g. the new Steemit phone app. And the design choice they made is baked into many design decisions, such as that comments and blog posts are editable many hours after posting.

Yes I agree. If they want a Reddit type of system then the simpler the better. The Steemit development team could be thinking that engaging the users more is the better path. But I agree with you, doing it forum style will be better. Even BCT is not running out of users. It depends on how the person runs the site.

[iamnotback]

I am thinking that Steem/Steemit made a mistake to do their client-server data transfer via WebSockets instead of REST.

They appear to have designed for a real-time update scenario, but this will come at the cost scalability (because WebSockets can't be cached upstream), and afaics the real-time updates are entirely unnecessary for the feature set of this type of site. This isn't chat and blog commenting shouldn't be used a real-time interactive chat.

I don't think Steem could scale technically to a million users as it currently is designed. Certainly not 100 million users.

That doesn't mean they couldn't do some redesign along the way, but the existing paradigm is gaining inertia that will be difficult to turn quickly, e.g. the new Steemit phone app. And the design choice they made is baked into many design decisions, such as that comments and blog posts are editable many hours after posting.

Yes I agree. If they want a Reddit type of system then the simpler the better. The Steemit development team could be thinking that engaging the users more is the better path. But I agree with you, doing it forum style will be better. Even BCT is not running out of users. It depends on how the person runs the site.

I got more into the design and realized I don't need to forsake edits, rather just forsaking pushed updates (the server pushing to the client).

Pushed interaction might be necessary for other future features, but afaics it isn't necessary for the blog content feature.