[ANN] ICONOMI - Fund Management Platform

[CryptoCypherCoin]

from what I've seen so far this has been relatively stable

[1714802964]

1714802964

[1714802964]

1714802964

[1714802964]

1714802964

[MalReynolds]

It was stated that as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, all fees will go to ICN holders.
Once they will burn ICO money, profits will first be used for operational costs and the rest will be paid as dividends.
Since ~80% of ICNP profits go back to Iconomi, I don't expect Iconomi to be short for operational funds any time soon

I missed this.  Link?

"How much is distributed as dividends to ICN token holders?

ICN token holders receive everything, after the operational costs of the service operator have been subtracted. Please note that we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over."

https://ico.iconomi.net/faq

That says they won't participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds remaining.

The wording is ambiguous, but the least favourable interpretation seems to be "there won't be any dividends until the ICO fund runs out". I.e. no profits will be shared until that time.

Can you clear that up at all? How are you reading it?

I don't see anything ambiguous about " Please note that we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over"

Profit sharing=dividends

I don't know why we have so much discussion around dividends. There is still time for that.

My point is that it says they will NOT share profits as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, but you seem to be reading it differently.

If they say they will NOT do something, why are you reading it as the opposite?

It doesn't say "as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, all fees will go to ICN holders", which is what you said.

I am asking you to clarify your interpretation for me.

I will try one more time..
I don't know where you take your point

it says they will NOT share profits as long as Iconomi have enough funds

It is clearly stated in FAQ "we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over"
How is that different than "as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, all fees will go to ICN holders"?

It's different because they say they will NOT be doing the thing which you said they WILL be doing.

If I said I will not be giving you an ice cream, would you read that as "Mendeleev said he's giving me an ice cream"?

I am open to having it explained better, but so far you are just repeating the same words without explanation.

How do you read "we will not participate in profit sharing" as "all fees go to ICN holders"?

Are you reading it as them saying they will personally not take a profit? Which could be one definition of "participate" (hence the ambiguity I mentioned)

I don't mean to frustrate you. If you can't explain your interpretation any better, I may ask one of the team to clarify at a later date.

Another point - are they saying that as long as there are ICO funds remaining, that fees will INITIALLY be split only among the original 85M ICO tokens bought by non devs, AND ONLY LATER split among all 100M ICN tokens (and thus, the devs) only when ICO funds run out?

$6M of ICO funds for ICONOMI ops will last a long time, but if they leave lots of ICNP profit locked up for long periods of time before cashout, they could possible have a real cash flow problem once they depend only on the OPM fee dividends from 15M ICN for ICONOMI operating expenses.

I would hate to see a need for cash flow become a consideration for when ICONOMI does an ICNP profit cashout....

[5thangel]

from what I've seen so far this has been relatively stable

i would say very stable compared to most of alts

[bittraffic]

If this happens then I plan to buy ICN every week with the money earned from the dividends, isn't it a good idea?

I'm thinking that with the start of dividends people will stop trading in large amount in order to receive more from dividends.

Thank you...

That is if someone is going to sell ICN after the fact they they can earn eth by just holding it on their wallets. But yes its a good idea and that you can generate more money later.

[CyanFox]

even with the bitcoin pump, icn price seems to be holding very well.
I thought I'd get a good chance to buy more...

ICN is so strong right now, it will pump if bitcoin gets dumped.

[Daparski]

It was stated that as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, all fees will go to ICN holders.
Once they will burn ICO money, profits will first be used for operational costs and the rest will be paid as dividends.
Since ~80% of ICNP profits go back to Iconomi, I don't expect Iconomi to be short for operational funds any time soon

I missed this.  Link?

"How much is distributed as dividends to ICN token holders?

ICN token holders receive everything, after the operational costs of the service operator have been subtracted. Please note that we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over."

https://ico.iconomi.net/faq

That says they won't participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds remaining.

The wording is ambiguous, but the least favourable interpretation seems to be "there won't be any dividends until the ICO fund runs out". I.e. no profits will be shared until that time.

Can you clear that up at all? How are you reading it?

I don't see anything ambiguous about " Please note that we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over"

Profit sharing=dividends

I don't know why we have so much discussion around dividends. There is still time for that.

My point is that it says they will NOT share profits as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, but you seem to be reading it differently.

If they say they will NOT do something, why are you reading it as the opposite?

It doesn't say "as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, all fees will go to ICN holders", which is what you said.

I am asking you to clarify your interpretation for me.

I will try one more time..
I don't know where you take your point

it says they will NOT share profits as long as Iconomi have enough funds

It is clearly stated in FAQ "we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over"
How is that different than "as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, all fees will go to ICN holders"?

It's different because they say they will NOT be doing the thing which you said they WILL be doing.

If I said I will not be giving you an ice cream, would you read that as "Mendeleev said he's giving me an ice cream"?

I am open to having it explained better, but so far you are just repeating the same words without explanation.

How do you read "we will not participate in profit sharing" as "all fees go to ICN holders"?

Are you reading it as them saying they will personally not take a profit? Which could be one definition of "participate" (hence the ambiguity I mentioned)

I don't mean to frustrate you. If you can't explain your interpretation any better, I may ask one of the team to clarify at a later date.

It was just one quote from the FAQ. If you go through the rest of the dividends related questions there you will see that:
1. So basically, dividends are the total income subtracted for operating costs, salaries and potential bonuses?
Yes.

2. ICN token holders receive everything, after the operational costs of the service operator have been subtracted

Hope it is clear now. You can always post on reddit if you want to get official answer.

[Mendeleev]

Another point - are they saying that as long as there are ICO funds remaining, that fees will INITIALLY be split only among the original 85M ICO tokens bought by non devs, AND ONLY LATER split among all 100M ICN tokens (and thus, the devs) only when ICO funds run out?

$6M of ICO funds for ICONOMI ops will last a long time, but if they leave lots of ICNP profit locked up for long periods of time before cashout, they could possible have a real cash flow problem once they depend only on the OPM fee dividends from 15M ICN for ICONOMI operating expenses.

I would hate to see a need for cash flow become a consideration for when ICONOMI does an ICNP profit cashout....

Indeed. A few things are unclear. I'm sure they will explain in time, though.

Remember 2 million ICN went to bounties though. The split is 87/13, not 85/15, so they have 13M for devs, not 15M.

[BestWebCreator]

Another point - are they saying that as long as there are ICO funds remaining, that fees will INITIALLY be split only among the original 85M ICO tokens bought by non devs, AND ONLY LATER split among all 100M ICN tokens (and thus, the devs) only when ICO funds run out?

$6M of ICO funds for ICONOMI ops will last a long time, but if they leave lots of ICNP profit locked up for long periods of time before cashout, they could possible have a real cash flow problem once they depend only on the OPM fee dividends from 15M ICN for ICONOMI operating expenses.

I would hate to see a need for cash flow become a consideration for when ICONOMI does an ICNP profit cashout....

Indeed. A few things are unclear. I'm sure they will explain in time, though.

Remember 2 million ICN went to bounties though. The split is 87/13, not 85/15, so they have 13M for devs, not 15M.

13 millions ICN are worth alot of money, but with the current buy side there are not enough people that are willing to buy ICN so the devs can not transfer all their salary into btc or fiat if they want to so they are stuck with their own coin. So they should make the best of it in order to give their own coins which they also hold a higger buy side support or a higher price.

[jackiedragon]

Kraken is back online!

Not much ICN left under 0.00030 tho...

Looks like we're heading to 0.0040 soon.

still 38 BTC left till 30k

are you sure it will pass 0.00040 at the end of this month?

highest bid today is 0.000282

lot off pressure by sell order while bitcoin value keep upwards

The sell pressure is there mainly because most new buyers don't have an ETH wallet to withdraw their ICN to and ICONOMI.net wallet still doesn't accept ICN deposits.

All that will change on December 28th when people withdraw ICN from Kraken to their wallets on Iconomi.net so they can earn the weekly Dividends, especially since Kraken didn't announce any plans to distribute Dividends to ICN holders.

ICN will be so scarce on Kraken that we could see 0.00100 reached within few days.

ICN deposits on Iconomi site won't be available on 28th. It was stated few times on Reddit

Does it mean we have to move our ICN to icn wallet from ICO dashboard before 28th of December? I am sorry if i missed something as I am not following them on Reddit or here but I am concerned about my ICN which I am keeping on ICO dashboard

No you can keep them on the ICONOMI site, and you would also receive dividends if you hold them there.

[kalpit]

It was stated that as long as Iconomi have enough funds from ICO money for daily operations, all fees will go to ICN holders.
Once they will burn ICO money, profits will first be used for operational costs and the rest will be paid as dividends.
Since ~80% of ICNP profits go back to Iconomi, I don't expect Iconomi to be short for operational funds any time soon

I missed this.  Link?

"How much is distributed as dividends to ICN token holders?

ICN token holders receive everything, after the operational costs of the service operator have been subtracted. Please note that we will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over."

https://ico.iconomi.net/faq

Will the dividends get distributed among 87 million ICN or 100 million ICN?

Also, is the ICNX model final now? (Only 10 days left)

[Daparski]

Another point - are they saying that as long as there are ICO funds remaining, that fees will INITIALLY be split only among the original 85M ICO tokens bought by non devs, AND ONLY LATER split among all 100M ICN tokens (and thus, the devs) only when ICO funds run out?

$6M of ICO funds for ICONOMI ops will last a long time, but if they leave lots of ICNP profit locked up for long periods of time before cashout, they could possible have a real cash flow problem once they depend only on the OPM fee dividends from 15M ICN for ICONOMI operating expenses.

I would hate to see a need for cash flow become a consideration for when ICONOMI does an ICNP profit cashout....

Indeed. A few things are unclear. I'm sure they will explain in time, though.

Remember 2 million ICN went to bounties though. The split is 87/13, not 85/15, so they have 13M for devs, not 15M.

My post with reply to Mal got messed up, I will try again.

From how I understand it:
Dividends will always be paid to all share holders, menaing to all 100M ICN tokens.
from FAQ:

ICN tokens will receive weekly dividends in the form of ETH from all ICONOMI revenue streams

I am not sure (no big corp-fin expert), isn't it always like that? I mean, if there are only "Series A" stocks, the company has to pay equally to all shareholders.

The ICO deal was 15% "penalty" to all investments, not including early stage bonus (1st week no penalty, 2nd week 5% penalty, 3th week 10% penalty).

As for cash management. Iconomi have ~6M usd to burn on operational cost for now and ~80% of ICNP fund profits. Assuming the ICO funds will be enough for 2 years, and assuming that ICNP fund will be managed adequate or better - I don't see much of a cash flow issue in the near future.
Even for 50% annual profits for ICNP fund, it means 1.8M usd profit back to Iconomi, which should be enough for operational cost (assuming the big legal cost chunk was already paid from ICO money)

[MalReynolds]

Another point - are they saying that as long as there are ICO funds remaining, that fees will INITIALLY be split only among the original 85M ICO tokens bought by non devs, AND ONLY LATER split among all 100M ICN tokens (and thus, the devs) only when ICO funds run out?

$6M of ICO funds for ICONOMI ops will last a long time, but if they leave lots of ICNP profit locked up for long periods of time before cashout, they could possible have a real cash flow problem once they depend only on the OPM fee dividends from 15M ICN for ICONOMI operating expenses.

I would hate to see a need for cash flow become a consideration for when ICONOMI does an ICNP profit cashout....

Indeed. A few things are unclear. I'm sure they will explain in time, though.

Remember 2 million ICN went to bounties though. The split is 87/13, not 85/15, so they have 13M for devs, not 15M.

My post with reply to Mal got messed up, I will try again.

From how I understand it:
Dividends will always be paid to all share holders, menaing to all 100M ICN tokens.
from FAQ:

ICN tokens will receive weekly dividends in the form of ETH from all ICONOMI revenue streams

I am not sure (no big corp-fin expert), isn't it always like that? I mean, if there are only "Series A" stocks, the company has to pay equally to all shareholders.

The ICO deal was 15% "penalty" to all investments, not including early stage bonus (1st week no penalty, 2nd week 5% penalty, 3th week 10% penalty).

As for cash management. Iconomi have ~6M usd to burn on operational cost for now and ~80% of ICNP fund profits. Assuming the ICO funds will be enough for 2 years, and assuming that ICNP fund will be managed adequate or better - I don't see much of a cash flow issue in the near future.
Even for 50% annual profits for ICNP fund, it means 1.8M usd profit back to Iconomi, which should be enough for operational cost (assuming the big legal cost chunk was already paid from ICO money)

So what is this FAQ phrase referring to?  

"...will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over...."

[Daparski]

Another point - are they saying that as long as there are ICO funds remaining, that fees will INITIALLY be split only among the original 85M ICO tokens bought by non devs, AND ONLY LATER split among all 100M ICN tokens (and thus, the devs) only when ICO funds run out?

$6M of ICO funds for ICONOMI ops will last a long time, but if they leave lots of ICNP profit locked up for long periods of time before cashout, they could possible have a real cash flow problem once they depend only on the OPM fee dividends from 15M ICN for ICONOMI operating expenses.

I would hate to see a need for cash flow become a consideration for when ICONOMI does an ICNP profit cashout....

Indeed. A few things are unclear. I'm sure they will explain in time, though.

Remember 2 million ICN went to bounties though. The split is 87/13, not 85/15, so they have 13M for devs, not 15M.

My post with reply to Mal got messed up, I will try again.

From how I understand it:
Dividends will always be paid to all share holders, menaing to all 100M ICN tokens.
from FAQ:

ICN tokens will receive weekly dividends in the form of ETH from all ICONOMI revenue streams

I am not sure (no big corp-fin expert), isn't it always like that? I mean, if there are only "Series A" stocks, the company has to pay equally to all shareholders.

The ICO deal was 15% "penalty" to all investments, not including early stage bonus (1st week no penalty, 2nd week 5% penalty, 3th week 10% penalty).

As for cash management. Iconomi have ~6M usd to burn on operational cost for now and ~80% of ICNP fund profits. Assuming the ICO funds will be enough for 2 years, and assuming that ICNP fund will be managed adequate or better - I don't see much of a cash flow issue in the near future.
Even for 50% annual profits for ICNP fund, it means 1.8M usd profit back to Iconomi, which should be enough for operational cost (assuming the big legal cost chunk was already paid from ICO money)

So what is this FAQ phrase referring to?  

"...will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over...."

I understand it as participate in the profits for operational costs (from the beginning of the sentence):
"We will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing"
profit sharing as deducting profits for operational costs.

That's how I understand it, and yes, it can be written more clear

[Mendeleev]

So what is this FAQ phrase referring to?  

"...will not participate in profit sharing as long as there are ICO funds left over...."

I understand it as participate in the profits for operational costs (from the beginning of the sentence):
"We will be using the capital raised during the ICO for coverage of operational costs and will not participate in profit sharing"
profit sharing as deducting profits for operational costs.

That's how I understand it, and yes, it can be written more clear

Ah ha!

I was thinking too laterally... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_sharing

They will not participate in "profit sharing" as literally defined at the above link (?)

So basically they consider ICO money to be our money, and won't take a profit while we are technically covering the operational costs.

[cryptoba]

A lot of people have been asking about the exchanges issue. But, wouldn´t it be logical that the reason they are only using Kraken is because they want to attract people on the new Iconomi platform to purchase ICN?
Could this be possible?

[rapazev]

A lot of people have been asking about the exchanges issue. But, wouldn´t it be logical that the reason they are only using Kraken is because they want to attract people on the new Iconomi platform to purchase ICN?
Could this be possible?

imo yes and no.
i agree that would "force" people to use iconomi platform, but that isn't a good way to make things. More exchanges bring more volume, more visibility and with that more sells/higher price.

to me, the reason they aren't looking for poloniex is that brings more volatility too, and to a token, stability is the key. and again, that's just my opinion.

[aDAPPter]

A lot of people have been asking about the exchanges issue. But, wouldn´t it be logical that the reason they are only using Kraken is because they want to attract people on the new Iconomi platform to purchase ICN?
Could this be possible?

They confirmed  on Reddit that people can buy ICN with USD & EUR on ICONOMI platform this Q1 of 2017.
Chasila is already licensed & registered at Small Payment Institution so they are already set up to do that.
When people start buying ICN with Fiat on ICONOMI platform, we will be on our way to the Mars  & beyond

[rgornik]

Still only kraken
Why not added on bittrex or poloniex?

It was added already on them on Nov 31th with special invitation, i dont know how you missed it...

[Sm00kew]

Nice 50k buy 

[operabit]

Nice 50k buy 

Oh noo!
I think the price at 50k satoshi