[ANN] ICONOMI - Fund Management Platform

[sayyedraza]

One of the best ICO by ICONOMI   they did best and they are the best team, I am sure ICN will rise up and up

Enjoy Happy trading wth ICN  

[Daparski]

I did both of that but I didn't get a clear answer from the paper or reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/5gyhkk/dividends_question/)

I'm not trying to spread FUD but that answer kind of needs to be clear for traders/investors.

the answers are clear in the FAQ and WhitePaper

So what does the FAQ and whitepaper say is the answer to my scenario I outlined to Jani below?  I never found a clear answer there.

"Finally, at some time in 1Q 2017 you will make your first dividend payment to the original ICO participants who funded the ICNP original $4.6M. Say for example you invested $500K of ICNP money in the ICO of a new coin. In the week after launch, that coin doubles in price so your $500K investment is now worth $1M, giving an ICNP profit of $500K total. 20% of that $500K or $100K is the amount of profit to be distributed among the original ICO participants.

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS $100K TO DISTRIBUTE AS ETH DIVIDENDS?

Specifically, do you sell 10% of your holdings in the new coin at the end of the first week and hold on to the other 90%? Or do you get the money for dividend distribution from some other source? And if this, WHAT other source?"

Mal,

this answer is simple, I apologize if it was not addressed before.

But first, let me again say that the fees for ICNX or ICNP have not yet been confirmed, so this is just hypothetical ...

If ICNP would have 20/2 fee structure, then 20% of all REALISED PROFITS would go from ICNP to ICONOMI as fees.
But "realised profits" means that ICNP has to CLOSE its position in that "new coin" first. Only if ICNP liquidates whole $1M investment, then $100k (20% of 500k profit) go as fees to ICONOMI. And this can later be distributed as dividends to ICN token holders.

And since vast majority of ICNP's investments will be done in digital currency, so will be later liquidations... For example ICNP recently invested 5000 ETH in Golem, and I expect when this position will close, ICNP will do sell it for ETH...

Clear?

best,
Jaka

Jaka, I thank you for this answer, it helps me understand a lot.  

You have been talking about weekly dividends so I thought you were going to evaluate profit for each ICNP coin position on a week-by-week basis and distribute dividends accordingly.   Instead, ICNP may go for months or even years before liquidating its position in a given coin, calculating the profit ONE TIME based on that close-out sale, and THEN distributing profit dividends on the position.  So there could be many weeks where no ICNP dividend is distributed because no closures of ICNP coin positions occur during that week.   And so in weeks where there are no ICNP position closures, any profits / dividends would come only from ICNX or other fees.  Correct?

If this is correct, it is a big deal.  

Unrealized profits can grow larger and larger on ICNP investments until those investments are finally cashed out and distributed as dividends, pushing the "fundamentals" price of ICN up week after week as investment profits accumulate before cashout and distribution.

Deferred ICNP dividends should immediately show up as a rise in ICN price.   Roughly speaking, future increases in ICN price should always be at least 20% of ICNP pre-cashout profits - more, maybe much more, if speculative frenzy kicks in.   As the ICNP Fund grows in size, ICN price could take off like a rocket.



HODL !

Mal, I don't quite understand that part you wrote:

Unrealized profits can grow larger and larger on ICNP investments until those investments are finally cashed out and distributed as dividends

As far as I understand there is only realized profits. If you don't sell your holdings, you don't have profits. How can unrealized profits go larger on ICNP investments? Do you mean speculations?

About dividends, I will compare them to chess rooks - these are powerful tools that are usually used in the late stages of the game. You cannot and probably should not use them in early stages.
The same goes for dividends - they will kick off later in the "game" when custom funds will be active on OFM. Until then it is more of a POC with Iconomi 2 funds.

Even more reasons to HODL !

[Coca-Cola]

All hell will break loose once we break that 30K sell wall  

[estenity]

Just found out about this project today. Looks very interesting.
Any idea how to get early access to the ICONOMI Platform for testing?

You must have ICN token You can buy it in kraken.com  after having ICN token immediately move to myetherwallet.com
all information provided here  https://medium.com/iconominet

yes Warren, be welcome with us (you were registered on December 09, 2016, 11:31:35 .
so the price of ICN will soar soon?

[estenity]

Can a single Fund Manager start multiple funds on OFM?
This is the norm on ZuluTrade & eTORO where each Fund Manager can have a High-Risk fund & a Low-Risk fund, etc...

The main goal is to attract fund managers to the platform, this will make the platform robust and create a new found wealth in the crypto space, my major concern here is just that whales may take over the platform

so you did succeed with Warren ?

[Daparski]

To start a different discussion, everybody should read this article.  It has some significant implications about demands for cryptocurrencies among fiat investors and therefore the demand for ICONOMI services.

http://theantimedia.org/cash-no-longer-king/

good read! Personally, I feel more comfortable having my money on the blockchain and not in some fictional bank ledger that is backed up by toilet paper.

It feels like most people are living in the Matrix

[Daparski]

Can a single Fund Manager start multiple funds on OFM?
This is the norm on ZuluTrade & eTORO where each Fund Manager can have a High-Risk fund & a Low-Risk fund, etc...

The main goal is to attract fund managers to the platform, this will make the platform robust and create a new found wealth in the crypto space, my major concern here is just that whales may take over the platform

How can whales take over the platform?

[Daparski]

New article on medium - ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42#.k7o47if5n

[icojaka]

UPDATE:
For the pleasure of your Sunday reading, here is the next article in our ICO fundamentals series:

The psychology behind ICO funding
ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42

[favdesu]

New article on medium - ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42#.k7o47if5n

really like their posts about this stuff. I'm still not too happy with the golem investment, but I can clearly see where ICN is coming from now

[Daparski]

New article on medium - ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42#.k7o47if5n

really like their posts about this stuff. I'm still not too happy with the golem investment, but I can clearly see where ICN is coming from now

they invested very little in golem, I think it was more of a showcase than a real investment

[5thangel]

UPDATE:
For the pleasure of your Sunday reading, here is the next article in our ICO fundamentals series:

The psychology behind ICO funding
ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42

Interesting article, thanks

[Coca-Cola]

UPDATE:
For the pleasure of your Sunday reading, here is the next article in our ICO fundamentals series:

The psychology behind ICO funding
ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42

I find these ICO blog series useless for investors. They're mainly addressing people thinking to start their own ICOs.
I hope future ICONOMI blogs benefit investors in a more direct way...

[jackiedragon]

Twitter update

Presenting next article in the ICONOMI ICO fundamentals series: The psychology behind ICO funding. #ICO #ICONOMI bit.ly/2grwnZF

https://twitter.com/iconominet/status/807886737544515584

[shinratensei_]

New article on medium - ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42#.k7o47if5n

really like their posts about this stuff. I'm still not too happy with the golem investment, but I can clearly see where ICN is coming from now

It seems like the GNT dev was so crap for managing his project.

The best part

Timing is (almost) everything

Inchain, and other was being a real evidence for this.  

[Daparski]

UPDATE:
For the pleasure of your Sunday reading, here is the next article in our ICO fundamentals series:

The psychology behind ICO funding
ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42

I find these ICO blog series useless for investors. They're mainly addressing people thinking to start their own ICOs.
I hope future ICONOMI blogs benefit investors in a more direct way...

No, they are not. Iconomi investors are indirectly investing in ICOs through ICNP. The articles show what are the guidelines and standards of Iconomi for investing in ICOs.
After all, we have a hedge fund with 4.5M usd.

[Daparski]

UPDATE:
For the pleasure of your Sunday reading, here is the next article in our ICO fundamentals series:

The psychology behind ICO funding
ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42

No free day for you guys?

[icojaka]

I did both of that but I didn't get a clear answer from the paper or reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/5gyhkk/dividends_question/)

I'm not trying to spread FUD but that answer kind of needs to be clear for traders/investors.

the answers are clear in the FAQ and WhitePaper

So what does the FAQ and whitepaper say is the answer to my scenario I outlined to Jani below?  I never found a clear answer there.

"Finally, at some time in 1Q 2017 you will make your first dividend payment to the original ICO participants who funded the ICNP original $4.6M. Say for example you invested $500K of ICNP money in the ICO of a new coin. In the week after launch, that coin doubles in price so your $500K investment is now worth $1M, giving an ICNP profit of $500K total. 20% of that $500K or $100K is the amount of profit to be distributed among the original ICO participants.

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS $100K TO DISTRIBUTE AS ETH DIVIDENDS?

Specifically, do you sell 10% of your holdings in the new coin at the end of the first week and hold on to the other 90%? Or do you get the money for dividend distribution from some other source? And if this, WHAT other source?"

Mal,

this answer is simple, I apologize if it was not addressed before.

But first, let me again say that the fees for ICNX or ICNP have not yet been confirmed, so this is just hypothetical ...

If ICNP would have 20/2 fee structure, then 20% of all REALISED PROFITS would go from ICNP to ICONOMI as fees.
But "realised profits" means that ICNP has to CLOSE its position in that "new coin" first. Only if ICNP liquidates whole $1M investment, then $100k (20% of 500k profit) go as fees to ICONOMI. And this can later be distributed as dividends to ICN token holders.

And since vast majority of ICNP's investments will be done in digital currency, so will be later liquidations... For example ICNP recently invested 5000 ETH in Golem, and I expect when this position will close, ICNP will do sell it for ETH...

Clear?

best,
Jaka

Jaka, I thank you for this answer, it helps me understand a lot.  

You have been talking about weekly dividends so I thought you were going to evaluate profit for each ICNP coin position on a week-by-week basis and distribute dividends accordingly.   Instead, ICNP may go for months or even years before liquidating its position in a given coin, calculating the profit ONE TIME based on that close-out sale, and THEN distributing profit dividends on the position.  So there could be many weeks where no ICNP dividend is distributed because no closures of ICNP coin positions occur during that week.   And so in weeks where there are no ICNP position closures, any profits / dividends would come only from ICNX or other fees.  Correct?

If this is correct, it is a big deal.  

Unrealized profits can grow larger and larger on ICNP investments until those investments are finally cashed out and distributed as dividends, pushing the "fundamentals" price of ICN up week after week as investment profits accumulate before cashout and distribution.

Deferred ICNP dividends should immediately show up as a rise in ICN price.   Roughly speaking, future increases in ICN price should always be at least 20% of ICNP pre-cashout profits - more, maybe much more, if speculative frenzy kicks in.   As the ICNP Fund grows in size, ICN price could take off like a rocket.



HODL !

Mal, that is correct.

There is also a reason why this is the only way. If we would do it as you (mis)understood before, then in a case of ICNP dropping in value (imagine that an ICO into which ICNP had invested, would announce that they have been hacked and all assets stolen) we would have to ask shareholders to "return" parts of already paid dividends to cover loss... Which is of course impossible.

[favdesu]

UPDATE:
For the pleasure of your Sunday reading, here is the next article in our ICO fundamentals series:

The psychology behind ICO funding
ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42

I find these ICO blog series useless for investors. They're mainly addressing people thinking to start their own ICOs.
I hope future ICONOMI blogs benefit investors in a more direct way...

you know that performance is one major driver of dividends for us investors? It's super important to know how they will use the money. can't be more direct

[icojaka]

UPDATE:
For the pleasure of your Sunday reading, here is the next article in our ICO fundamentals series:

The psychology behind ICO funding
ICONOMI ICO fundamentals — 3 of 4

https://medium.com/iconominet/the-psychology-behind-ico-funding-81787ecd9b42

I find these ICO blog series useless for investors. They're mainly addressing people thinking to start their own ICOs.
I hope future ICONOMI blogs benefit investors in a more direct way...

No, they are not. Iconomi investors are indirectly investing in ICOs through ICNP. The articles show what are the guidelines and standards of Iconomi for investing in ICOs.
After all, we have a hedge fund with 4.5M usd.

And also do not forget that investing in ICOs is always associated with some risk.
So ICNP team has to make detailed due diligence before investing.  
But now imagine that ICNP's mentoring team is involved in the ICO into which the fund also invests.
This gives ICONOMI a big advantage, as it gets to know the ICO team really personally and also advise on the key decisions.
All in all that makes it a better and safer investment.

+ like Daparski said, community needs to set new rules and standards for ICOs. The whole ICO world will benefit from those.