[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[rikur]

AMC: is it you who keeps on selling massive amounts of shares to push the price down to 0.0005? I can't see how it would be anyone else and I think this is very misleading, since people have put up offers 50% over the IPO price in good faith. Please elaborate.

I love the mining concept, but something isn't right here or at least needs more transparency.

[1715467699]

1715467699

[1715467699]

1715467699

[fently]

The IPO is still going on.

See: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist

The two largest holders used to add up to almost 40 million shares. Some of those shares were put up in a single ask at around 4.5 million or so. During that time maybe about 300k were sold. Then the ask was pulled, and the price rose. Large volume buying ensued, so that right now they have sold over 1 million shares. Much of that has sold at well above 0.0005. You can find out whether one of those larger accounts is selling at 0.0005 by taking a snapshot of the assets list, buying one share, and then taking another snapshot to compare. How long that strategy remains useful is hard to know because we may have some sales happening between two people who own the same account -- a possibility that is very real given the circumstances.

For the record, I'm one of the top ten shareholders, and this activity does not serve my interests.

[rikur]

The IPO is still going on.

See: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist

The two largest holders used to add up to almost 40 million shares. Some of those shares were put up in a single ask at around 4.5 million or so. During that time maybe about 300k were sold. Then the ask was pulled, and the price rose. Large volume buying ensued, so that right now they have sold over 1 million shares. Much of that has sold at well above 0.0005. You can find out whether one of those larger accounts is selling at 0.0005 by taking a snapshot of the assets list, buying one share, and then taking another snapshot to compare. How long that strategy remains useful is hard to know because we may have some sales happening between two people who own the same account -- a possibility that is very real given the circumstances.

For the record, I'm one of the top ten shareholders, and this activity does not serve my interests.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this.

AMC: I've been following this stock closely and own a relatively nice chunk of them, however I will stop buying more unless I see them at the IPO price. Heck, might stop for good: I feel very stupid now because I paid upto 0.0008 for some of my shares. I thought the IPO was over because there were no asks at IPO price.

[Vbs]

Wow, so many people after the quick money.

So basically, the tantrum is because only other people can benefit from increased share prices, while AMC has to be content on selling as low as possible?

Nice.

[fently]

Wow, so many people after the quick money.

So basically, the tantrum is because only other people can benefit from increased share prices, while AMC has to be content on selling as low as possible?

Nice.

The reason people invest is for the potential returns. Your reference to "quick money" completely ignores the deception on the part of the issuer and instead chooses to attack those who were deceived. It means you have no substance to your argument.

Remember, they didn't just increase the price, they increased it, and then decreased it, let it rise, then decreased it again, over and over again, effectively trapping anyone who bought at anything higher than 0.0005 into either taking a loss or hoping beyond hope that there aren't more deceptions down the line.

 

[carnitastaco]

Hi KSlaughter-

Can you provide more info about your development of 45 and 28 nm chips?  I'm not asking for intricate technical details, but as a point of comparison, when Friedcat was posting about development of the Block Eruptor chip, he provided info like an IC layout (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1092163#msg1092163) and discussion of the software packages his team was using (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1100925#msg1100925) that allowed observers to have some confidence that his team actually knew what they were talking about and was really producing something.

Also, no offense intended whatsoever, but a lot of your posts read like English is a second language for you, based on sentence structure, conjugations (especially the lack thereof), typos, and lack of clarity.  What's up with that? A "Kenneth Slaughter" of Missouri who's been doing business (presumably in the US) with his nephew Gerald for 30 years shouldn't write supposedly official docs like the ones you've posted, and the best case scenario for you, that you're just rushed/sloppy enough to misspell the name of the state you're registered in in the very first line of your description of "who is VMC" does not exactly inspire confidence- "Herefore" isn't even a word.  I'm not trying to be a grammar nit, just my impression from reading through this whole thread.

[rikur]

AMC is a hybrid Bitcoin mining and development cooperative describing itself as "the next big mining cooperative" is releasing today an offering to early-adopters of Five million (5,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares and issuing another twenty million (20,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares which will be used for the growth and expansion fund, which will receive a total of 100% of the company's virtual-currency profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is equal to the offering price of .0005 BTC per share and 12 months have elapsed since the initial offering. The Cooperative is hoping to raise up to 2,500 Bitcoins. The offering price will be 0.0005 Bitcoins for the first 20,000,000 early-adopter shares thereafter the price will be .001 BTC per share. If demand is strong enough then share prices may increase throughout the IPO.

If the IPO of the first 20 000 000 shares is stlll ongoing, why aren't they priced at 0.0005 as per the initial offering?

[kslaughter]

Hi KSlaughter-

Can you provide more info about your development of 45 and 28 nm chips?  I'm not asking for intricate technical details, but as a point of comparison, when Friedcat was posting about development of the Block Eruptor chip, he provided info like an IC layout (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1092163#msg1092163) and discussion of the software packages his team was using (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1100925#msg1100925) that allowed observers to have some confidence that his team actually knew what they were talking about and was really producing something.

Also, no offense intended whatsoever, but a lot of your posts read like English is a second language for you, based on sentence structure, conjugations (especially the lack thereof), typos, and lack of clarity.  What's up with that? A "Kenneth Slaughter" of Missouri who's been doing business (presumably in the US) with his nephew Gerald for 30 years shouldn't write supposedly official docs like the ones you've posted, and the best case scenario for you, that you're just rushed/sloppy enough to misspell the name of the state you're registered in in the very first line of your description of "who is VMC" does not exactly inspire confidence- "Herefore" isn't even a word.  I'm not trying to be a grammar nit, just my impression from reading through this whole thread.

We are in the process of porting our Bitcoin mining software to 45nm and 28nm chips using the semiconductors tools.  This is being done to see if it is feasible to continue the development process on this chip.  Should it turn out to be feasible, then we would go to production on the chip.

The RTL is written in Verilog and is highly optimized for Bitcoin mining.  The code has been synthesised in Xilinx and the semiconductor company is currently porting the code using
its tool to see if it feasible to run the code on their chip.  

I hope this helps.

[rikur]

I contacted BitFunder and they are now investigating this IPO.

[auto2nr1]

There is good questions in regards to AMC/VMC in this thread. Would you be able to answer all questions asked with clarity in detail? This would help bring confidence and trust to those of us who are already invested and potential future investors. Thanks.

[Minor Miner]

I contacted BitFunder and they are now investigating this IPO.

Really?   But the assumptions of OP seem so reasonable.   He was only assuming taking (and maintaining) 25% of the entire network for the next 24 months by purchasing 8% of the available avalons (he sent Yifu an email you know) and then making his own chips....
Not sure if he assumed no one else would have any interest in competing with him.    He is only 8 months behind friedcat so why not?

[rikur]

I contacted BitFunder and they are now investigating this IPO.

Really?   But the assumptions of OP seem so reasonable.   He was only assuming taking (and maintaining) 25% of the entire network for the next 24 months by purchasing 8% of the available avalons (he sent Yifu an email you know) and then making his own chips....
Not sure if he assumed no one else would have any interest in competing with him.    He is only 8 months behind friedcat so why not?

Yes. While I love the concept of the security and the work they are doing, the way they don't offer their shares publicly at the announced IPO prices is very dubious. It seems like the Issuer (AMC) shows up to the market a couple times a day and does a massive sell, saturating all the BIDs over the IPO price of 0.0005.

This is far from my understanding of how IPOs are supposed to work.. but then again, maybe I'm wrong. That's why I've been asking AMC to explain what's going on, but didn't receive any response. Maybe they'll respond to BitFunder.

[stereotype]

I contacted BitFunder and they are now investigating this IPO.

You seem to have a bit between your teeth rikur (pun intended). You have made what are probably valid comments and questions. You obviously dont feel fulfilled, and/or your questions have not been answered to your satisfaction.
Given the context of the unregulated bitcoin space we are operating in, dont you think you may be acting as if its the FTSE or NYSE? Like i said, youve made your point, but please, have a reality check.

Check my earlier post. I said something was suspect before anyone else, and i still bought in.....because i took a wider view.

The title of this thread has the word cooperative in it. Are you cooperating?  

[kslaughter]

AMC is a hybrid Bitcoin mining and development cooperative describing itself as "the next big mining cooperative" is releasing today an offering to early-adopters of Five million (5,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares and issuing another twenty million (20,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares which will be used for the growth and expansion fund, which will receive a total of 100% of the company's virtual-currency profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is equal to the offering price of .0005 BTC per share and 12 months have elapsed since the initial offering. The Cooperative is hoping to raise up to 2,500 Bitcoins. The offering price will be 0.0005 Bitcoins for the first 20,000,000 early-adopter shares thereafter the price will be .001 BTC per share. If demand is strong enough then share prices may increase throughout the IPO.

If the IPO of the first 20 000 000 shares is stlll ongoing, why aren't they priced at 0.0005 as per the initial offering?

AMC may issue up to 20,000,000 "Early-Adopters" shares which may be posted for no less than 0.0005 BTC
each and will also issue 20,000,000 growth and expansion fund shares to AMC.  The "Early-Adopter" shares
may be posted in batches with the first batch being 5,000,000 shares.  Only the first 40,000,000 issued
shares will receive 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is
equal to .0005 BTC per share.  AMC will only issue 40,000,000 shares (20,000,00 "Early-Adopter and
20,000,000 AMC growth and expansion fund shares) until the total dividends paid is equal to 0.0005 BTC
per share and 12 months have elaped from the date of the initial offering.  Should it be determined that
it is not feasible to develop an ASIC chip, then the remaining funds in the research and development/purchase
fund will be added the growth and expansion fund.

Additional shares may be sold at no less than .001 BTC each.

======================================================================

may be posted

[Minor Miner]

Have you confirmation of your 100 Avalons yet?

[fently]

AMC is a hybrid Bitcoin mining and development cooperative describing itself as "the next big mining cooperative" is releasing today an offering to early-adopters of Five million (5,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares and issuing another twenty million (20,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares which will be used for the growth and expansion fund, which will receive a total of 100% of the company's virtual-currency profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is equal to the offering price of .0005 BTC per share and 12 months have elapsed since the initial offering. The Cooperative is hoping to raise up to 2,500 Bitcoins. The offering price will be 0.0005 Bitcoins for the first 20,000,000 early-adopter shares thereafter the price will be .001 BTC per share. If demand is strong enough then share prices may increase throughout the IPO.

If the IPO of the first 20 000 000 shares is stlll ongoing, why aren't they priced at 0.0005 as per the initial offering?

AMC may issue up to 20,000,000 "Early-Adopters" shares which may be posted for no less than 0.0005 BTC
each and will also issue 20,000,000 growth and expansion fund shares to AMC.  The "Early-Adopter" shares
may be posted in batches with the first batch being 5,000,000 shares.  Only the first 40,000,000 issued
shares will receive 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is
equal to .0005 BTC per share.  AMC will only issue 40,000,000 shares (20,000,00 "Early-Adopter and
20,000,000 AMC growth and expansion fund shares) until the total dividends paid is equal to 0.0005 BTC
per share and 12 months have elaped from the date of the initial offering.  Should it be determined that
it is not feasible to develop an ASIC chip, then the remaining funds in the research and development/purchase
fund will be added the growth and expansion fund.

Additional shares may be sold at no less than .001 BTC each.

I agree that you appear to have followed the letter of the contract. But you grossly violated the spirit of it by selling at greater than 0.0005 and then selling more at 0.0005, repeating this pattern to great effect. It means that everything else in your contract has to be scrutinized differently. Suddenly, the "best interests of AMC" become far muddier of a concept. It means that if it isn't exactly spelled out, we need to expect that you will screw us over.

[kslaughter]

AMC is a hybrid Bitcoin mining and development cooperative describing itself as "the next big mining cooperative" is releasing today an offering to early-adopters of Five million (5,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares and issuing another twenty million (20,000,000) BitFunder virtual shares which will be used for the growth and expansion fund, which will receive a total of 100% of the company's virtual-currency profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is equal to the offering price of .0005 BTC per share and 12 months have elapsed since the initial offering. The Cooperative is hoping to raise up to 2,500 Bitcoins. The offering price will be 0.0005 Bitcoins for the first 20,000,000 early-adopter shares thereafter the price will be .001 BTC per share. If demand is strong enough then share prices may increase throughout the IPO.

If the IPO of the first 20 000 000 shares is stlll ongoing, why aren't they priced at 0.0005 as per the initial offering?

AMC may issue up to 20,000,000 "Early-Adopters" shares which may be posted for no less than 0.0005 BTC
each and will also issue 20,000,000 growth and expansion fund shares to AMC.  The "Early-Adopter" shares
may be posted in batches with the first batch being 5,000,000 shares.  Only the first 40,000,000 issued
shares will receive 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is
equal to .0005 BTC per share.  AMC will only issue 40,000,000 shares (20,000,00 "Early-Adopter and
20,000,000 AMC growth and expansion fund shares) until the total dividends paid is equal to 0.0005 BTC
per share and 12 months have elaped from the date of the initial offering.  Should it be determined that
it is not feasible to develop an ASIC chip, then the remaining funds in the research and development/purchase
fund will be added the growth and expansion fund.

Additional shares may be sold at no less than .001 BTC each.

I agree that you appear to have followed the letter of the contract. But you grossly violated the spirit of it by selling at greater than 0.0005 and then selling more at 0.0005, repeating this pattern to great effect. It means that everything else in your contract has to be scrutinized differently. Suddenly, the "best interests of AMC" become far muddier of a concept. It means that if it isn't exactly spelled out, we need to expect that you will screw us over.

You are right, wasn't trying to screw anyone over, was just trying to sell some shares.  I will work on building the price back up so that investors will not get screwed.

[lewicki]

I contacted BitFunder and they are now investigating this IPO.

You seem to have a bit between your teeth rikur (pun intended). You have made what are probably valid comments and questions. You obviously dont feel fulfilled, and/or your questions have not been answered to your satisfaction.
Given the context of the unregulated bitcoin space we are operating in, dont you think you may be acting as if its the FTSE or NYSE? Like i said, youve made your point, but please, have a reality check.

Check my earlier post. I said something was suspect before anyone else, and i still bought in.....because i took a wider view.

The title of this thread has the word cooperative in it. Are you cooperating?  

QFE. I'm heavily invested since yesterday. Bought half of my shares above 0.0005 before I realized what was happening. I think people need to take a step back and breath. Mistakes were made and communication faltered. It's time to move on.

[rikur]

AMC may issue up to 20,000,000 "Early-Adopters" shares which may be posted for no less than 0.0005 BTC
each and will also issue 20,000,000 growth and expansion fund shares to AMC.  The "Early-Adopter" shares
may be posted in batches with the first batch being 5,000,000 shares.  Only the first 40,000,000 issued
shares will receive 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses until the total dividends paid is
equal to .0005 BTC per share.  AMC will only issue 40,000,000 shares (20,000,00 "Early-Adopter and
20,000,000 AMC growth and expansion fund shares) until the total dividends paid is equal to 0.0005 BTC
per share and 12 months have elaped from the date of the initial offering.  Should it be determined that
it is not feasible to develop an ASIC chip, then the remaining funds in the research and development/purchase
fund will be added the growth and expansion fund.

Additional shares may be sold at no less than .001 BTC each.

======================================================================

may be posted

So your FAQ conflicts with your IPO statement? IPO statement:

The offering price will be 0.0005 Bitcoins for the first 20,000,000 early-adopter shares thereafter the price will be .001 BTC per share

FAQ:

AMC may issue up to 20,000,000 "Early-Adopters" shares which may be posted for no less than 0.0005 BTC each and will also issue 20,000,000 growth and expansion fund shares to AMC.  The "Early-Adopter" shares may be posted in batches with the first batch being 5,000,000 shares.

Further more the first Batch was far less than 5,000,000 and you didn't publicly increase the IPO price, you removed the IPO offerings and have ever since then sold them whenever you feel like it.

[Shasoudas]

Just to clarify,

Should it be determined that
it is not feasible to develop an ASIC chip, then the remaining funds in the research and development/purchase
fund will be added the growth and expansion fund.

The development/purchase fund is the remaining 60 Million shares?

Is this decision taking place after the current feasibility tests have been completed?

If the feasibility tests fail when will these shares be "active"? If so they have a large impact the time scale of recouping the IPO cost per share if the feasibility tests fail.

Thanks for your time,
Shas