[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[Vbs]

Lets clear some of the raised issues.

First, comparing the number of shares between both or the value of each is misleading. Different assets, different propositions.

Second, just because Asicminer started first doesn't mean it will be the only major player infinitely. History in contemporary society has proved this argument many times wrong.

Third, asicminer sells hardware paid by their own mining, which is very different than the VMC model. Hardware sold by VMC is not bought using AMC profits. VMC buys their own hardware, using their own funds.

Fourth, opinions are just that, opinions, like mine. That's why they are a dime a dozen!

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[hf]

ASICminer has 400,000 shares outstanding. AMC will issue up to 100,000,000 shares in total or 250 times as many shares as ASICminer.

Currently, ASIC miner shares are approaching 3 BTC while AMC is hovering around 0.0008 BTC per share or just 1/3,750th the price of one ASICminer share. Taking ONLY these numbers into consideration, AMC is undervalued by a factor of 15 times measured very simplistically against ASICminer.

How is that even remotely relevant ? I could say the same : ASICMINER is undervalued at 3BTC being the biggest miner on the market and delivering the biggest dividends of the market.

You can say that, however you didn't even put any facts behind your statement, at least canuck had some reasoning and facts behind his statement.

Here you have, I highlighted the facts behind my statement.

By the way, I respect your work and here is the current list of top AMC shares' owners :
20,000,000
15,009,057
----------
616,416
320,989
214,984
200,000
186,653
149,919
147,971
106,091
104,475
100,273

I'm part of this list, and I bought at 0.0005 before Ukyo forced you to sell all 5M. I wouldn't own so many shares if I wasn't thinking 1. you're smart enough to succeed 2. you'll succeed. Don't be so touchy. I was pointing out that comparing the value of 1 share out of 40M shares to the value of 1 share out of 400K shares to come to the conclusion that both of them should be worth the same - otherwise one of them is undervalued - makes no sense and is no relevant at all. You certainly get that.
AMC is undervalued. Doesn't mean splitting X by 40M == splitting X by 40K.

[Vbs]

hf,
Don't worry, the fact Ken is "touchy" is one of the reasons why I also agree with your points. From what I've seen he's one to defend the AMC shirt with all his heart and work tirelessly for that. That counts a lot in my book.

[kslaughter]

ASICminer has 400,000 shares outstanding. AMC will issue up to 100,000,000 shares in total or 250 times as many shares as ASICminer.

Currently, ASIC miner shares are approaching 3 BTC while AMC is hovering around 0.0008 BTC per share or just 1/3,750th the price of one ASICminer share. Taking ONLY these numbers into consideration, AMC is undervalued by a factor of 15 times measured very simplistically against ASICminer.

How is that even remotely relevant ? I could say the same : ASICMINER is undervalued at 3BTC being the biggest miner on the market and delivering the biggest dividends of the market.

You can say that, however you didn't even put any facts behind your statement, at least canuck had some reasoning and facts behind his statement.

Here you have, I highlighted the facts behind my statement.

By the way, I respect your work and here is the current list of top AMC shares' owners :
20,000,000
15,009,057
----------
616,416
320,989
214,984
200,000
186,653
149,919
147,971
106,091
104,475
100,273

I'm part of this list, and I bought at 0.0005 before Ukyo forced you to sell all 5M. I wouldn't own so many shares if I wasn't thinking 1. you're smart enough to succeed 2. you'll succeed. Don't be so touchy. I was pointing out that comparing the value of 1 share out of 40M shares to the value of 1 share out of 400K shares to come to the conclusion that both of them should be worth the same - otherwise one of them is undervalued - makes no sense and is no relevant at all. You certainly get that.
AMC is undervalued. Doesn't mean splitting X by 40M == splitting X by 40K.

Yes, It has been a long week, I am a little tired.

Here is some good news, we have just retained an Electronic Engineering Services firm.

We will have our first prototype of our Fast-Hash-XX series within the next three weeks.

[kslaughter]

Here is AMC's Ranking on BTCGuild ID: 211435

[lewicki]

Yes, It has been a long week, I am a little tired.

Here is some good news, we have just retained an Electronic Engineering Services firm.

We will have our first prototype of our Fast-Hash-XX series within the next three weeks.

Boom-sha-ka-laka!

[kslaughter]

Yes, you are right again they are at 110nm going to 65nm.  AMC is going to 28nm

Yes, AMC gets 10% and does not have all the cost of manufacturing, all profit and by the way that is twice the normal royalty of 5% for things like this.

Asicminer can afford to build at any node they want.  Unlike you, Friedcat probably understands the silicon roadmap well enough to understand why 28 nm is a foolish target.

Show us your great expertise Ken.  Give us a discussion of the merits of 28 nm vs. 65 nm.  As a hint here are some key topics.

Die Size
Power consumption
Yield
Mask Costs
Availability of Wafer starts
Cost of wafer starts
Clock rate

I am glad you love Friedcat, does he have his own thread?

[canuck]

With AMC issuing 40mil shares, is there any way that it'll ever see the kinds of dividends that ASICminer is putting out just now? I mean, there would need to be a ton of mining going on, right?

Please excuse my clumsiness here. I'm on my phone.

ASICminer has 400,000 shares outstanding. AMC will issue up to 100,000,000 shares in total or 250 times as many shares as ASICminer.

Currently, ASIC miner shares are approaching 3 BTC while AMC is hovering around 0.0008 BTC per share or just 1/3,750th the price of one ASICminer share. Taking ONLY these numbers into consideration, AMC is undervalued by a factor of 15 times measured very simplistically against ASICminer.

Now that said, AMC only has the three avalons hashing and everything else is as yet, simply theory. Will AMC manage to build all the machines they desire to build? Will Avalon deliver on the chip orders. Will AMCs technology even work?  Who knows for sure. We can only do the best we can with the information we have and Ken does seem to be getting better at investor relations though it would be nice if he rose above the need he feels sometimes for retaliatory and emotional responses to critics.

You are using false equivalence.

Comparing AMC to Asicminer is patently ridiculous, on so many levels it tempts me to make a fake stock like Ken here to take your money too.

So firstly, I apologize for being unclear.  As I mentioned, I was on my phone and I was busy with other tasks.  I just wanted to chime in to answer a question and provide a better understanding of AMC's share structure.  I did certainly mention in my second paragraph just some of the many reasons that this was indeed a false equivalency.  I don't deny that for a second.  In fact, I thought I had clearly implied that but it seems you didn't catch on to that and that's likely because I just wasn't clear enough.  Again, I apologize.

More importantly, my post wasn't meant to say that AMC was in fact undervalued by a factor of 15.  I used that phrasing and that was probably a mistake but I did say that if you considered ONLY (only was emphasized) those numbers, that this was the case.  That's not the equivalency I was trying to draw. I was trying to answer a question about the earning potential of shares and give Thalum a better idea of how the share structure is different from ASICminer.  That's really the only thing I was trying to do.

[ThickAsThieves]

Hey Ken, not sure if it's of any use to you, but someone is selling 4 Avalon chips here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234911.0;topicseen

Just in case you might need them to test your boards.

[kslaughter]

Hey Ken, not sure if it's of any use to you, but someone is selling 4 Avalon chips here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234911.0;topicseen

Just in case you might need them to test your boards.

Thanks TAT, I could use a few more, just received 30 sample chips yesterday.

[Minor Miner]

Yes, you are right again they are at 110nm going to 65nm.  AMC is going to 28nm
Yes, AMC gets 10% and does not have all the cost of manufacturing, all profit and by the way that is twice the normal royalty of 5% for things like this.

Asicminer can afford to build at any node they want.  Unlike you, Friedcat probably understands the silicon roadmap well enough to understand why 28 nm is a foolish target.
Show us your great expertise Ken.  Give us a discussion of the merits of 28 nm vs. 65 nm.  As a hint here are some key topics.
Die Size
Power consumption
Yield
Mask Costs
Availability of Wafer starts
Cost of wafer starts
Clock rate

I am glad you love Friedcat, does he have his own thread?

Ken;
I think you are being a little misleading so I want to clarify your post.   You stated that you JUST retained an engineering firm and you will have a WORKING PROTOTYPE in three weeks.    Are you talking about a board for your avalon chips or this 28nm you keep referencing?

[John818]

Minor Miner,

If you were a man of your word you would be long gone from this thread.  Sadly you're not and are on a one man crusade to undermine Ken.

Please just let it go, and with that yourself too, otherwise we'll have to start calling you Manic Underminer.

[kslaughter]

Yes, you are right again they are at 110nm going to 65nm.  AMC is going to 28nm
Yes, AMC gets 10% and does not have all the cost of manufacturing, all profit and by the way that is twice the normal royalty of 5% for things like this.

Asicminer can afford to build at any node they want.  Unlike you, Friedcat probably understands the silicon roadmap well enough to understand why 28 nm is a foolish target.
Show us your great expertise Ken.  Give us a discussion of the merits of 28 nm vs. 65 nm.  As a hint here are some key topics.
Die Size
Power consumption
Yield
Mask Costs
Availability of Wafer starts
Cost of wafer starts
Clock rate

I am glad you love Friedcat, does he have his own thread?

Ken;
I think you are being a little misleading so I want to clarify your post.   You stated that you JUST retained an engineering firm and you will have a WORKING PROTOTYPE in three weeks.    Are you talking about a board for your avalon chips or this 28nm you keep referencing?

A working prototype of our Fast-Hash-80 machine.  We are still working on the 28nm chip.

[TaxReturn]

There was mentioning of possibly moving to another pool earlier, any news on that? I've looked at this table:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

It seems there are some better alternatives with lower fees and merged mining (no stratum on btcguild). Judging from that comparison Slush, Bitminter, P2Pool (allows to merge mine at will) and PolMine seem to be viable candidates.

[pneumatic5]

There was mentioning of possibly moving to another pool earlier, any news on that? I've looked at this table:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

It seems there are some better alternatives with lower fees and merged mining (no stratum on btcguild). Judging from that comparison Slush, Bitminter, P2Pool (allows to merge mine at will) and PolMine seem to be viable candidates.

We are merged mining already. Look at the screen shots ken has posted.

[kslaughter]

There was mentioning of possibly moving to another pool earlier, any news on that? I've looked at this table:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

It seems there are some better alternatives with lower fees and merged mining (no stratum on btcguild). Judging from that comparison Slush, Bitminter, P2Pool (allows to merge mine at will) and PolMine seem to be viable candidates.

Yes, it would be nice to lower the fees, every little bit helps.  BTCGuild is nice right now so that everyone can see what we are doing and they just turned on merged mining on stratum.  The best would be P2Pool with its 0 fee, however that would not be very transparent to investors.  It also takes some extra work to get that set up for the Avalon's.  A little note is that we have been very lucky these first 8 days of mining and personalty found 4 blocks.  I am sure we won't be that lucky every week or we would be solo mining very quickly.

ID: 211435

[bigdude]

Ken,

Maybe you should look into acquiring chip credits from BFL - could be a good way to get a large amount of chips at a discount:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3272-customer-appreciation-chip-credit-program.html

[kslaughter]

Ken,

Maybe you should look into acquiring chip credits from BFL - could be a good way to get a large amount of chips at a discount:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3272-customer-appreciation-chip-credit-program.html

Yes, I have received a PM from a person with a large chip credit.  He said they are coming out with a reference board, so I will be looking in to that.

[kslaughter]

Avalon Earning Report:

[luke.watson]

Avalon Earning Report:

Roughly BTC0.85 in Namecoin - what is your plan for these coin, are you going to sell them and fund dividends?

It might even be worth holding on to them and see if the price rises, there will hopefully be a lot of hype surrounding anon domains following the prism act