[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[kslaughter]

It was so bad that it was almost as if there was a conflict of interest. As if they owned a competing security and were trying to put it down... but I digress.

Is there a due date, waiting line, or tracking# for the 6 Avalons?

No, the orders just show Processing.  I will do a Press Release as soon as the order status changes.

I am hoping to see a status change this next week.

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[rikur]

Yeah back to something more constructive. AMC is the NDA specifically saying that you can't disclose the name of the semiconductor company? NDAs usually have a whitelist the information to be kept confidental. Hearing the company name and maybe even verifying that the AMC is in the talks with said semiconductor company would increase trust quite a bit and bring AMC more capital.

[kslaughter]

Motion 3rded. Let's move on.

Can you tell us anything about this "Major Semiconductor Company"? Who are they? What have they made before?

*disclosure I own AMC shares.

Sorry, under NDA.

[kslaughter]

Yeah back to something more constructive. AMC is the NDA specifically saying that you can't disclose the name of the semiconductor company? NDAs usually have a whitelist the information to be kept confidental. Hearing the company name and maybe even verifying that the AMC is in the talks with said semiconductor company would increase trust quite a bit and bring AMC more capital.

I am working on doing this exact thing.  However, it is more proprietary information than NDA.

[shibaji]

This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Not for the company, but for the investors. Pirateat40 part deux. GLTA.

[lewicki]

I like the idea of spacing out the blocks of 500k in .0001 increments instead of throwing them all out at .0005. The earlier you invest, the lower price you get in at.

[kslaughter]

AMC To Add Massive Amounts Of Hashing Power

SPRINGFIELD, MO, – May 26, 2013 – VMC a manufacturer of the Fast-Hash Bitcoin Mining Machines has announced today that they will purchase a full batch (10,000) of Avalon chips to build ~29 Fast-Hash-80's for AMC should AMC provide the capital in the next few weeks, this would bring AMC machine total to 39 units. The 39 machines will bring the cooperatives hash power to 3,504,000 MH/s, 3,504 GH/s, or 3.504 TH/s. At the current Difficulty of 12,153,411.71 this will bring the estimated total revenue as of this writing to a total of $19,280.28 per day and a yearly amount of $5,398,450.75. AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

[kslaughter]

AMC To Add Massive Amounts Of Hashing Power

SPRINGFIELD, MO, – May 26, 2013 – VMC a manufacturer of the Fast-Hash Bitcoin Mining Machines has announced today that they will purchase a full batch (10,000) of Avalon chips to build ~29 Fast-Hash-80's for AMC should AMC provide the capital in the next few weeks, this would bring AMC machine total to 39 units. The 39 machines will bring the cooperatives hash power to 3,504,000 MH/s, 3,504 GH/s, or 3.504 TH/s. At the current Difficulty of 12,153,411.71 this will bring the estimated total revenue as of this writing to a total of $19,280.28 per day and a yearly amount of $5,398,450.75. AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

6 Avalons, plus 33 more Fast-Hash-80's to be built = Total Revenue In A Year Of $5,398,450.75 As Of Today.
Take 50% To Purchase New Machines To Keep The Revenue Up As The Difficulty Increases.

Capitalize the remaining revenue at 5%,  Value =  $53,984,507.50

So the value of income from the machines that will be built plus the Avalon's owned by the cooperative is = ~$54 Million or $1.349612687/share or 0.101497532 BTC / share

Now, consider the fact that AMC will use the proceeds from the IPO to develop an ASIC for Bitcoin Mining and/or to purchase more mining equipment, you can easily see where the shares in the future could be worth quite a bit more.

In addition, VMC will be paying AMC a 10% royalty on any machines it sells with AMC technology and you have
a cooperative where the share price could explode to the upside.  

[kslaughter]

This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Not for the company, but for the investors. Pirateat40 part deux. GLTA.

"If you make your Investors successful, you will be successful"

[Minor Miner]

This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Not for the company, but for the investors. Pirateat40 part deux. GLTA.

"If you make your Investors successful, you will be successful"

Most miners know that your "annual revenue" numbers are deceptive (I would say fraudulent), many of your investors probably do not.
forecasting revenue using today's difficulty on machines you do not even possess has no purpose but to deceive as you know the difficulty level will not be "today's level" when you receive your first six machines let alone your chips.

[kslaughter]

This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Not for the company, but for the investors. Pirateat40 part deux. GLTA.

"If you make your Investors successful, you will be successful"

Most miners know that your "annual revenue" numbers are deceptive (I would say fraudulent), many of your investors probably do not.
forecasting revenue using today's difficulty on machines you do not even possess has no purpose but to deceive as you know the difficulty level will not be "today's level" when you receive your first six machines let alone your chips.

You must have missed that fact that I am taking 50% of the revenue to purchase more machines to keep the revenue stream consistent.  Also, this is the only way to estimate the revenue stream.  I fully disclose that this is based on today's difficulty so that makes it neither deceptive or fraudulent.

[sayaz]

I like the idea of spacing out the blocks of 500k in .0001 increments instead of throwing them all out at .0005. The earlier you invest, the lower price you get in at.

Well a bunch of early investors already got screwed so I don't know how this wi

This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Not for the company, but for the investors. Pirateat40 part deux. GLTA.

"If you make your Investors successful, you will be successful"

ll pan out.

So far all you have done is literally halved my piece of the pie by manipulating the book. Just because AMC might be a good investment in the long run doesn't mean those that wanted to buy at IPO price and thought the IPO was over so picked up shares at the next lowest price (when it wasn't) shouldn't feel entitled to have their 'rightful' share.

Your words don't mean much.

Your actions on the other hand.

[kslaughter]

I like the idea of spacing out the blocks of 500k in .0001 increments instead of throwing them all out at .0005. The earlier you invest, the lower price you get in at.

Well a bunch of early investors already got screwed so I don't know how this will pan out.

Did you mean to say early speculators/flippers, because if they where investors they would be waiting for the dividends.

[sayaz]

I like the idea of spacing out the blocks of 500k in .0001 increments instead of throwing them all out at .0005. The earlier you invest, the lower price you get in at.

Well a bunch of early investors already got screwed so I don't know how this will pan out.

Did you mean to say early speculators/flippers, because if they where investors they would be waiting for the dividends.

That misses the point. 'Early' investor can pick up 20k at .0005 now
EARLIER Investor on 23rd picks up 10k @ .001 making a judgement on information which has shown to be wrong.

Big loss in volume

[kslaughter]

I like the idea of spacing out the blocks of 500k in .0001 increments instead of throwing them all out at .0005. The earlier you invest, the lower price you get in at.

Well a bunch of early investors already got screwed so I don't know how this will pan out.

Did you mean to say early speculators/flippers, because if they where investors they would be waiting for the dividends.

That misses the point. 'Early' investor can pick up 20k at .0005 now
EARLIER Investor on 23rd picks up 10k @ .001 making a judgement on information which has shown to be wrong.

Big loss in volume

You are right, that is what happened, however that Early investor had over 3 weeks to pick up his 20K @ .0005.  Even at double the
price in the Long Run we will drive shareholder value up.  I think even that investor that picked up 10k @ .001 will be very happy.

[Shasoudas]

Would publishing AMC's bitcoin address add transparency since we can see proof of purchase of Avalon chips, etc.

[Deprived]

AMC To Add Massive Amounts Of Hashing Power

SPRINGFIELD, MO, – May 26, 2013 – VMC a manufacturer of the Fast-Hash Bitcoin Mining Machines has announced today that they will purchase a full batch (10,000) of Avalon chips to build ~29 Fast-Hash-80's for AMC should AMC provide the capital in the next few weeks, this would bring AMC machine total to 39 units. The 39 machines will bring the cooperatives hash power to 3,504,000 MH/s, 3,504 GH/s, or 3.504 TH/s. At the current Difficulty of 12,153,411.71 this will bring the estimated total revenue as of this writing to a total of $19,280.28 per day and a yearly amount of $5,398,450.75. AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

Capitalize the remaining revenue at 5%,  Value =  $53,984,507.50

How can you capitalise the revenue at 5% when a large chunk of the shares are held by yourself without having put in the same amount of capital/share?  Not arguing against you retaining a chunk of shares - but it massively impacts valuation (sold shares generated .005 or whatever each, you shares generated the value of the avalons you purchased/shares you own).

Also if you extrapolate from current orders to a lot more (what you've done) then you MUST factor in the change that quantity of hash-power makes to difficulty, as it becomes significant.  If all those machines arrive and get deployed, difficulty would change within a week - the 50% reinvestment would only keep up with external changes, it can't possibly compensate for the immediate change when you deploy before you've mined anything.

It's also misleading to value shares now as though they already generated revenue that you project for a year.

Plus the value NOW can only be based on the capital you've currently raised - the company's value can't be calculated based on money you HOPE to raise by selling more shares.  And the value of an investor's share now is based on company value/number of dividend-paying shares.  So if you've sold 1 share for every 5 you hold (can't tell actual numbers as can't distinguish between treasury shares and your personal ones) then at present investors would only own 1/6th of the company.  As you sell more that figure increases - as does the value of their share - but right now, because the majority of shares are owned by yourself - without similar capital having been put in - the actual value of the shares sold must be pretty low (they put in 90% of capital and own 1/6th of company - or whatever actual figures are based on shares sold).

Who gets the dividend payment from shares allocated for public sale but unsold btw?  We know investors don't (they get a fixed portion of profits) but do they go to you or into reinvestment?

Have to say the distribution method used (a not uncommon one around here ) of x% of profits per share is grossly unfair to investors if the IPO doesn't sell out.  If less shares sell then they get the same percentage of profits on a much smaller capital base.  So if 1 share sold (ignoring your avalons for a second - just to show the point) then he'd have put in 100% of the capital but get 1/100 millionth of the profits.  Your existing avalon orders make it less unfair - but still grossly so unless most of that 40 million shares get sold (at which point you're 'only' taking 60% of profits plus any salary in return for a few avalons - looking only at capital invested, not at work put in).

[kslaughter]

Would publishing AMC's bitcoin address add transparency since we can see proof of purchase of Avalon chips, etc.

I think it would:  Here is the address we are holding bitcoins at to purchase the chips:  16yTynjmSe5bsRGykDaaCL5bm2pxiEfcqP

We would like to purchase a full batch as group purchases have a commission of about 9.5%

[ThickAsThieves]

Would publishing AMC's bitcoin address add transparency since we can see proof of purchase of Avalon chips, etc.

I think it would:  Here is the address we are holding bitcoins at to purchase the chips:  16yTynjmSe5bsRGykDaaCL5bm2pxiEfcqP

We would like to purchase a full batch as group purchases have a commission of about 9.5%

Where did the other 460BTC go?

[kslaughter]

AMC To Add Massive Amounts Of Hashing Power

SPRINGFIELD, MO, – May 26, 2013 – VMC a manufacturer of the Fast-Hash Bitcoin Mining Machines has announced today that they will purchase a full batch (10,000) of Avalon chips to build ~29 Fast-Hash-80's for AMC should AMC provide the capital in the next few weeks, this would bring AMC machine total to 39 units. The 39 machines will bring the cooperatives hash power to 3,504,000 MH/s, 3,504 GH/s, or 3.504 TH/s. At the current Difficulty of 12,153,411.71 this will bring the estimated total revenue as of this writing to a total of $19,280.28 per day and a yearly amount of $5,398,450.75. AMC is a hybrid mining and development cooperative and a business unit of VMC.

Capitalize the remaining revenue at 5%,  Value =  $53,984,507.50

How can you capitalise the revenue at 5% when a large chunk of the shares are held by yourself without having put in the same amount of capital/share?  Not arguing against you retaining a chunk of shares - but it massively impacts valuation (sold shares generated .005 or whatever each, you shares generated the value of the avalons you purchased/shares you own).

Capitalizing the revenue has nothing to do with the number of shares held.  Maybe you should study how to capitalize an income stream.  Have you read my offering description?  If you had you will notice that the income only goes over 40 Million shares for the next 12 months, plus half of the revenue is reinvested back into more machines.

Also if you extrapolate from current orders to a lot more (what you've done) then you MUST factor in the change that quantity of hash-power makes to difficulty, as it becomes significant.  If all those machines arrive and get deployed, difficulty would change within a week - the 50% reinvestment would only keep up with external changes, it can't possibly compensate for the immediate change when you deploy before you've mined anything.

Yes, you are right, that is why I only took 50% of the revenue when I capitalized it.  I believe the 50% reinvestment will keep the revenue stream stable for at least a year.  Of course the machines will not arrive and get deployed in one week, plus it takes 2106 block ~2 weeks for the difficulty to change.

Who gets the dividend payment from shares allocated for public sale but unsold btw?  We know investors don't (they get a fixed portion of profits) but do they go to you or into reinvestment?

The dividend payment allocated for the public that are unsold go to AMC and will be used for reinvestment and ASIC development.

It's also misleading to value shares now as though they already generated revenue that you project for a year.

This is a forecast of the value based on when the machines arrive and are deployed.  nothing else.

Plus the value NOW can only be based on the capital you've currently raised - the company's value can't be calculated based on money you HOPE to raise by selling more shares.  And the value of an investor's share now is based on company value/number of dividend-paying shares.  So if you've sold 1 share for every 5 you hold (can't tell actual numbers as can't distinguish between treasury shares and your personal ones) then at present investors would only own 1/6th of the company.  As you sell more that figure increases - as does the value of their share - but right now, because the majority of shares are owned by yourself - without similar capital having been put in - the actual value of the shares sold must be pretty low (they put in 90% of capital and own 1/6th of company - or whatever actual figures are based on shares sold).

Like I said, this is not the value NOW.  It is a forecast of the value for the next year after the machines arrive and are deployed.  The value of the company does not have anything to do with the capital you raised, it has to do with what you do with that capital, i.e purchase equipment that produces income.  Most of the shares I own will not receive dividends until 12 months after the IPO.

Have to say the distribution method used (a not uncommon one around here ) of x% of profits per share is grossly unfair to investors if the IPO doesn't sell out.  If less shares sell then they get the same percentage of profits on a much smaller capital base.  So if 1 share sold (ignoring your avalons for a second - just to show the point) then he'd have put in 100% of the capital but get 1/100 millionth of the profits.  Your existing avalon orders make it less unfair - but still grossly so unless most of that 40 million shares get sold (at which point you're 'only' taking 60% of profits plus any salary in return for a few avalons - looking only at capital invested, not at work put in).

My offer is very fair to investors.  I work hard to increase shareholder value.  You may be missing the point with just a few Avalon's put in to the cooperative.  The Avalon's are just a small part of what Investors get when they invest into AMC.  As you can see from our Press Release we are reinvesting most of the IPO funds into more machines and/or chips to build those machines.  We are also working on developing an ASIC chip which will add more shareholder value.  Also, the cooperative gets a 10% royalty from VMC on machines VMC sells with AMC technology.  This royalty could be very important to adding shareholder value in the future.