[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[asyn]

Wall is back there. But now it has 1,640,00 shares instead of the 1,580,00 it had 10 minutes ago. This whole thing feels so fishy.

[ChefBorjan]

I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.

EDIT: Also, what I think needs to happen is this. AMC needs to go and show more of their hand, just to stop the fear spreading. Essentially, many of us has trust that AMC are aiming to unfold things as they claim (and as it stands I think they have more or less done everything that they said they would do up until today, which is fine in my books), but sadly there are a bunch of very vocal critics as well.

The problem is that the accusations of AMC=scam cannot be entirely disproven at this stage, because the arguement is essentially 'I bet you AMC won't come through' and well... since it actually hasn't happened yet there is no way to properly refute this. That's why I hope AMC can go away and come back with more interesting developments, in the hopes that it makes these arguments less and less convincing.

There is also a repetitive cycle of FUD which isn't helping. Like the posters above claiming that we paid for the Avalons, or that we were only getting 10% royalties back from VMC for the $1 million. A bit like the repetitive cycle in general with this thread!

But hey, it might all go down the drain of course. 

But until either thing happens, I will patiently hold onto my shares even as the share price peaks and dips, because I want to see where things stand several months from now rather than getting spooked by day to day speculation on a web forum.

[bigdude]

I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.

'Still' ... just means you missed the disappearing act

Ken, I think we need an explanation of whats going on ... why did it disappear, then re-appear with more shares?

[ThickAsThieves]

I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.

'Still' ... just means you missed the disappearing act

Ken, I think we need an explanation of whats going on ... why did it disappear, then re-appear with more shares?

Pretty simple, he's most likely buying up cheaper ones using your money, to try and elevate the price to 25 so he can get back to "business".

[TheSwede75]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245354

Will be interesting to see if any of the naysayers are willing to put their bitcoin where their mouth is, or if they are just armchair quarterbacks.

Why would anyone want to escrow funds outside of Bitfunder or BTcT? Not to mention that your terms are for a price drop UNDER first IPO price (under 0.0005). Sell calls around 0.0015 and I will buy as many as I can afford.

[kslaughter]

I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.

'Still' ... just means you missed the disappearing act

Ken, I think we need an explanation of whats going on ... why did it disappear, then re-appear with more shares?

Yes, I did it out of frustration and I apologize, since my expertise is engineering, I am still learning the ins and out of the Bitcoin stock market.  The sell order is not going away until sold or until it's not needed anymore due to mining profits.  I commit to announcing in this thread before any share price movements in the future.

I did add a few more shares that were in the account as I did not know the exact amount of shares when I canceled the sell order.  If anyone remembers the exact amount, I'll re-list them as that.

[chsados]

I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.

'Still' ... just means you missed the disappearing act

Ken, I think we need an explanation of whats going on ... why did it disappear, then re-appear with more shares?

Yes, I did it out of frustration and I apologize, .....

Out of frustration due to what?  That people wised up to the ridiculous inflated IPO price?

[Vbs]

Out of frustration due to what?  That people wised up to the ridiculous inflated IPO price?

I'd say out of frustration from all the negativity in this thread... Jeez!

[kslaughter]

We have just commited to 2 Full Racks of space at http://www.springfieldunderground.com/ after a tour this morning.  We have also reserved put a 2nd reservation on 2 more racks.

Check out the link above you would not believe this place.  It will take about 10 days to get everything in place and get the Avalon's moved to there new home.

[ChefBorjan]

Yes, I did it out of frustration and I apologize, since my expertise is engineering, I am still learning the ins and out of the Bitcoin stock market.  The sell order is not going away until sold or until it's not needed anymore due to mining profits.  I commit to announcing in this thread before any share price movements in the future.

I did add a few more shares that were in the account as I did not know the exact amount of shares when I canceled the sell order.  If anyone remembers the exact amount, I'll re-list them as that.

I appreciate that it might be quite stressful to see nobody buying at 0.0025 (especially if you thought the news you released would have a more positive effect), but I think its best to concentrate on doing what you do best by showing people what AMC is capable of from the mining side of things, and in doing so you will build the level of trust back up, and the share price will soon follow...

We have just commited to 2 Full Racks of space at http://www.springfieldunderground.com/ after a tour this morning.  We have also reserved put a 2nd reservation on 2 more racks.

Check out the link above you would not believe this place.  It will take about 10 days to get everything in place and get the Avalon's moved to there new home.

More good news. Keep it up. Perhaps you could sit in one of their rooms when the stress of reading this thread starts raising your blood pressure!  On a more serious note, could you please provide any proof of this?

[dhenson]

To my knowledge, Ken has never deleted negative posts.  +1 to Ken imo.

I'm not going to say that this investment isn't risky, it is.  However those of us that have been here since the initial ipo @ .0005 have already gone through all of the FUD the new investors are now experiencing.

For all you new investors, just know that I was highly skeptical (just read the thread) and have been pleasantly surprised by the actions and progress of AMC at every turn (besides having to forgive a couple of Ken's sporadic market mistakes). 

All this FUD is simply new investors getting comfortable with the risk of this investment.  Some will realize that this level of risk isn't for them and bail out (thus the temporary down turn). Others will stick it out and join us by regularly buying more on the way up.

[TheSwede75]

To my knowledge, Ken has never deleted negative posts.  +1 to Ken imo.

I'm not going to say that this investment isn't risky, it is.  However those of us that have been here since the initial ipo @ .0005 have already gone through all of the FUD the new investors are now experiencing.

For all you new investors, just know that I was highly skeptical (just read the thread) and have been pleasantly surprised by the actions and progress of AMC at every turn (besides having to forgive a couple of Ken's sporadic market mistakes). 

All this FUD is simply new investors getting comfortable with the risk of this investment.  Some will realize that this level of risk isn't for them and bail out (thus the temporary down turn). Others will stick it out and join us by regularly buying more on the way up.

I completely agree. The fact that Ken allows the discussion here to continue definitely speaks in his favor. I would like to note that despite my negative outlook on the current price, earnings expectations etc. I DO NOT believe that Ken or AMC are scamming anyone. Everyone should always do their own due diligence and invest based on that. I myself just do not see AMC being a solid investment based on the current price, but that does NOT mean I think they are actively misleading anyone and of course I could be wrong.

[ShroomsKit]

I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.

'Still' ... just means you missed the disappearing act

Ken, I think we need an explanation of whats going on ... why did it disappear, then re-appear with more shares?

Yes, I did it out of frustration and I apologize, since my expertise is engineering, I am still learning the ins and out of the Bitcoin stock market.  The sell order is not going away until sold or until it's not needed anymore due to mining profits.  I commit to announcing in this thread before any share price movements in the future.

I did add a few more shares that were in the account as I did not know the exact amount of shares when I canceled the sell order.  If anyone remembers the exact amount, I'll re-list them as that.

Wow wth?
I'm out. This is ridiculous.
Anyone who keeps his shares after this deserves what he will get.

[ShroomsKit]

I still see the shares on Bitfunder. Oddly I now see 1.6 million, slightly higher than before.

'Still' ... just means you missed the disappearing act

Ken, I think we need an explanation of whats going on ... why did it disappear, then re-appear with more shares?

Yes, I did it out of frustration and I apologize, since my expertise is engineering, I am still learning the ins and out of the Bitcoin stock market.  The sell order is not going away until sold or until it's not needed anymore due to mining profits.  I commit to announcing in this thread before any share price movements in the future.

I did add a few more shares that were in the account as I did not know the exact amount of shares when I canceled the sell order.  If anyone remembers the exact amount, I'll re-list them as that.

Sorry, but i'm just so amazed i have to quote this again.
This is someone we're sending 1000's of coins!
Think about it. Real hard.

Just deleting and adding shares because he is a little frustraded. In the meantime screwing around with investment of 100's of people. Just like that.
Someone like that won't own a penny of my money.

[canth]

We all see a lot of back and forth on these threads - I'll try and say why I'm not interested in investing at this time. For those that got in at the IPO price, maybe the risk is worth it - after all, the rise to .0025 has given plenty of room to sell enough to recover the initial investment and still have "free" shares.

For those considering the current sale price, I personally think it's too high for the risk. It values AMC at $25M or 250K BTC - about 1/5 the value of AM, the 'gold standard' in BTC investment/mining/hardware operations. Assuming (large assumption) that AMC performs exceptionally well, they could possible equal this achievement and increase their value from $25M to $100M+. There are plenty of ways for this not to happen due to competition, legal issues (either individual or across the BTC securities industry), execution of product delivery, etc.

For me, the possible value of increasing my investment 4-5 fold isn't worth relatively high risk. Give me an opportunity to make 20 fold, and maybe I'd be in. I'd advise everyone to make up their own mind - I'm steering clear, for the value/risk ratio alone.

[lolstate]

Pretty simple, he's most likely buying up cheaper ones using your money, to try and elevate the price to 25 so he can get back to "business".

TAT, your FUD isn't welcome here. If you had constructive input, I'd be all ears, but you have shown yourself to be a let's-smear-Ken actor several times that I can recall  . Also, you should be standing above the fray since you have a financial interest in promoting other, rival assets  . Show some integrity, won't you? You might earn others' respect then. It is too late for me, I won't be buying any of your offerings again, that is a promise.

Let's meet back here in 3 months and compare AMC/AM share price. I doubt you'll have the guts to turn up  

[ajk]

As stated prior everyone should be investing only what your willing to lose, I got in at .00065-.0007 and am going to hold because so far Ken has been  fairly transparent and hasnt lied in anything that he has promised,

while it maybe a risk for investors to get in now that is probably due to the extreme run up it recently had, investing in itself is a risk and as investors like most of us are here we should understand that we can lose, I can understand some of the hate it is warranted when you are putting your money into someone but when AM first started they had no equipment and just promises similar to what we see here,

the Hate and FUD is another thing, mostly from Tradefortress and sadly TAT, while they could absolutely be correct they are literally just assuming, they also probably hold AM shares and having a competitor = a more diluted AM price, hey I can understand I am a fairly large stake holder of AM as well but it is very arrogant especially as investors to have a bias towards something, I invested simply to mitigate my risk and because the market share has room for competiton

Lewicki keeps this thread alive so I just want to thank you for the information you provide here and the time put in to create the unbiased numbers directly from what Ken has said,

Dont invest if you dont believe in Ken but me, I am going to keep buying shares with money im willing to completely lose kind of like all of my investments simply because there is a chance that Ken is being absolutely honest,

TLDR

Dont invest if you dont believe in Ken

[Diamondstarfall]

I'm waiting for ken's statement regarding current market price sitting well below his issued share price.

This is not looking good for AMC as they need the capital, all of it at once to start production.
The undercutting is preventing that greatly and if ken moves his share price now, many people will be angry.

What's the future for AMC right now?

[TheSwede75]

Pretty simple, he's most likely buying up cheaper ones using your money, to try and elevate the price to 25 so he can get back to "business".

TAT, your FUD isn't welcome here. If you had constructive input, I'd be all ears, but you have shown yourself to be a let's-smear-Ken actor several times that I can recall  . Also, you should be standing above the fray since you have a financial interest in promoting other, rival assets  . Show some integrity, won't you? You might earn others' respect then. It is too late for me, I won't be buying any of your offerings again, that is a promise.

Let's meet back here in 3 months and compare AMC/AM share price. I doubt you'll have the guts to turn up  

You talk about FUD and constructive dialogue and then you end with wanting to "compare AMC and AM share price"? Yeah, I bet AMC will be traded at 3 BTC in 3 months, after all that would just value the company at 3 BILLION dollars...

Think MCfly!

[Ac3Upz]

I think that this deal could be summarized in this way:
The cca 6,000,000 shares sold (and another 14,000,000) are mainly for loan for funding R&D and production for VMC company. The risk of the loan is solely on investors in AMC.
For that 20,000,000 shares the investors are entitled to 2% of VMC's profits (AMC gets 10%, 20 mil. shares gets one fifth of that).
Also AMC has the option to buy the machines first (which is a great advantage, because the profit with mining much depends on when do you start mining compared to the difficulty) and is entitled to profits from mining (but at least 60% of the mining profits goes in Ken's pocket).

More of my notes below.

Here you go:  

Thanks for the answers. I also read the most of this thread.

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

No the profit calculation in the contract is based on a 40 times increase in the difficulty in the next 25 months.  Also, there is a growth and expansion fund which receives 50% of the revenue for the next ~10 Months to purchase more mining equipment to keep up and exceed the difficulty raise.

Everyone can calculate what the diffculty will be depending on avarege increase here: http://btc.re/?t=miningcalc (just look at the difficulty, ignore the rest). Next difficulty change will be around 9%, last two times it was around 20%. Altough I don't think that this pace is sustainable I'm afraid that the difficulty assumed in two years in contract (358,971,840) is underestimated.

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

Yes, this has happened before, due to the Bitfunder "God" Ukto forcing AMC to sale shares at .0005 when the market price was .0008.

I was talking about you dumping shares to drive the price from 0.001 to 0.0005 (also you used bid walls to drive the price up) then saying that for long term investors in doesn't matter. You were forced by Ukto and others to repay that.

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

The contract can not be changed.  There can not be anymore than 100,000,000 shares issued.

I tought so, unfortunately it isn't stated in the contract (I asked because you have been creative with filling the contract before).


One more issue, I think that there is just too much shares to be sold.

5,000,000 early adopter shares originally issued
2,000,000 early adopter shares 2nd round
2,000,000 bitfunder amc-pt btct.co shares

There is still 11,000,000 shares to be sold to "early adopters" (plus the 3,000,000 not sold yet in the 2nd round). That's $3,500,000 @0.0025


I'm not saying that Ken is a scammer, I'm just sceptical about the price and the contract.


Also everyone beware that the Vbs member is the biggest fanboy of AMC here, totally blind to any criticism.