[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[navitatl]

If this point has been addressed I haven't seen it: for the first 10M shares that get 100% of the dividends, does that include AMC shares that have exercised the 1:1 swap? This is an important distinction. If not, that seems like a major screwing of the previous IPO investors like myself.

[ArcticWolf]

If this point has been addressed I haven't seen it: for the first 10M shares that get 100% of the dividends, does that include AMC shares that have exercised the 1:1 swap? This is an important distinction. If not, that seems like a major screwing of the previous IPO investors like myself.

The 10M shares are all of the investor shares in the new company - including those that do the swap from AMC, so I would say those that swap are included in those that get 100% of the divs

[navitatl]

The 10M shares are all of the investor shares in the new company - including those that do the swap from AMC, so I would say those that swap are included in those that get 100% of the divs

I can't argue with that logic. Hope you're right - sounds like this could end up a fantastic deal for everyone after all.

[Vbs]

The 10M shares are all of the investor shares in the new company - including those that do the swap from AMC, so I would say those that swap are included in those that get 100% of the divs

I can't argue with that logic. Hope you're right - sounds like this could end up a fantastic deal for everyone after all.

Yes, the AMC shares swapped for AM shares get 100% of profits until .0025 is paid per share. Since there are a lot of ppl selling them cheap right now, you can grab some easily!

[kslaughter]

Two questions:

1. How many shares are already issued for AMC? ie. how many AMC shares already owned by investors?

2. With the new AM structure, where 1:1 swap of shares will take place - how many shares will be left over to release to raise more capital?

My concern here, is what if more $$ is needed to get the new hardware online, but there are no more shares available to issue to raise capital? What is the plan there?

~6 Million shares have been issued.  There will be no more shares to issue, however the contract does allow us to issue more if needed.

[EskimoBob]

Yep, Im ready for the final draft of the full contract, lets get it looked over and get the process started

This is the full contract to keep it simple.  However, if the community wants more details added, I can do that. 

This thread is growing fast and if you did answer, sorry for asking again.

1) What is the current shareholders equity in the final merged Co?
2) How much money did the management invest to AMC VMC?
3) Are you  going to publish proper financial reports reflecting the current situation? When?

[bigdude]

Two questions:

1. How many shares are already issued for AMC? ie. how many AMC shares already owned by investors?

2. With the new AM structure, where 1:1 swap of shares will take place - how many shares will be left over to release to raise more capital?

My concern here, is what if more $$ is needed to get the new hardware online, but there are no more shares available to issue to raise capital? What is the plan there?

~6 Million shares have been issued.  There will be no more shares to issue, however the contract does allow us to issue more if needed.

Great! Thanks for the update Ken.

[Streets 2.0]

Yes, the AMC shares swapped for AM shares get 100% of profits until .0025 is paid per share. Since there are a lot of ppl selling them cheap right now, you can grab some easily!

Oh I picked up over 100k shares when the big wall went up at .0005. I'm pretty satisfied with my position right now. High hopes for Ken and his operation.

Now that makes me sad in a way, cause I thought my holdings were a lot, guess not lol

[kslaughter]

Yep, Im ready for the final draft of the full contract, lets get it looked over and get the process started

This is the full contract to keep it simple.  However, if the community wants more details added, I can do that.  

This thread is growing fast and if you did answer, sorry for asking again.

1) What is the current shareholders equity in the final merged Co?
2) How much money did the management invest to AMC VMC?
3) Are you  going to publish proper financial reports reflecting the current situation? When?

When the current shareholders swap their shares for AMC (Belize) then if fully taken up, then the current shareholders will own 40% of the merge co.

Management, has invested in the 6 Avalon's, which were purchased in February 2013. These Avalon's are currently producing between 14-6 bitcoins per day.  At the current value of
bitcoins this give them a value @ a 5% capitalization rate of $2,482,000 using 50% of the revenue.  Of course this all depends on the difficulty and the exchange rate for bitcoins.

AMC will be publishing reports before the 15th of July.  

[FloatesMcgoates]

The contract looks good, you should proceed with the offering

[kslaughter]

The contract looks good, you should proceed with the offering

Yes, that is coming, I am on vacation until tomorrow.  So a few things need to be set up first.

[Stuartuk]

KISS is an acronym for "Keep it simple, stupid" as a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960.[1][2] The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complex; therefore simplicity should be a key goal in design and unnecessary complexity should be avoided. The phrase has been associated with aircraft engineer Kelly Johnson (1910–1990).[3] The term "KISS principle" was in popular use by 1970.[4] Variations on the phrase include "keep it stupid simple", "keep it short and simple", "keep it simple sir", "keep it super simple", "keep it simple or be stupid", "keep it simple and stupid", "keep it simple and straightforward", "keep it simple and safe", "Keep it simple student", "keep it simple, silly", "keep it simple and sincere" or "keep it simple and secular."[5][6]

Let's have this business done and allow Ken to crack on. 

Excellent post John boy, I mean it, really excellent. So if we are keeping it simple the contract only needs to set out the frame work of the new venture and its ownership and the profit share set up. It also needs to answer the concerns of the community regarding who owns the companys assets. I think it does this so it is looking good.

As much as anything this contract is a statement of how Ken will conduct business. I don't think any of us will be taking him to court if he breaches the terms - I guess you would just sell your holdings.

However I do think with the experience so far on this thread we do need some assurances written into the contract  over how and when the shareholders are kept informed and updated on the progress of the business plan. The silence on here from Ken a week ago was deafening. So we need Ken or another AM employee on here everyday answering genuine questions. I think a short sentence in the contract commiting the company to that will keep AM focused and on the ball.

[kslaughter]

KISS is an acronym for "Keep it simple, stupid" as a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960.[1][2] The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complex; therefore simplicity should be a key goal in design and unnecessary complexity should be avoided. The phrase has been associated with aircraft engineer Kelly Johnson (1910–1990).[3] The term "KISS principle" was in popular use by 1970.[4] Variations on the phrase include "keep it stupid simple", "keep it short and simple", "keep it simple sir", "keep it super simple", "keep it simple or be stupid", "keep it simple and stupid", "keep it simple and straightforward", "keep it simple and safe", "Keep it simple student", "keep it simple, silly", "keep it simple and sincere" or "keep it simple and secular."[5][6]

Let's have this business done and allow Ken to crack on. 

Excellent post John boy, I mean it, really excellent. So if we are keeping it simple the contract only needs to set out the frame work of the new venture and its ownership and the profit share set up. It also needs to answer the concerns of the community regarding who owns the companys assets. I think it does this so it is looking good.

As much as anything this contract is a statement of how Ken will conduct business. I don't think any of us will be taking him to court if he breaches the terms - I guess you would just sell your holdings.

However I do think with the experience so far on this thread we do need some assurances written into the contract  over how and when the shareholders are kept informed and updated on the progress of the business plan. The silence on here from Ken a week ago was deafening. So we need Ken or another AM employee on here everyday answering genuine questions. I think a short sentence in the contract commiting the company to that will keep AM focused and on the ball.

To keep the contract simple, I don't think we need to put that in.  At the moment we have limited amount of time to be on the board, as we are trying to get a number of things put together.  I for one will be flying to our Engineering firm to flash the prototypes in about a week.  Should we get eASIC paid the NRE, I will be working with them in California to the the RTL perfect with 20 hashing engines.  So, there is a lot to do. However, ever since we have started AMC we have put out a number of Press Releases, so much that Ukto on bitfunder limited us to one per week.

[stenkross]

I see that the price of AMC shares are dropping on bitfunder, they are around 0.0013 now.

Ken's "estimated gross combined profit and revenue / share" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158806.msg2649462#msg2649462) for 12 months is said to be 0.01108 BTC.
That's almost 10 times current share price.

Well, the preview of the contract seem like a nobrainer for me, so the only reason for the share price to drop must be lack of confidence that Ken will actually deliver what he estimated.

Or am I missing something?

[Streets 2.0]

I see that the price of AMC shares are dropping on bitfunder, they are around 0.0013 now.

Ken's "estimated gross combined profit and revenue / share" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158806.msg2649462#msg2649462) for 12 months is said to be 0.01108 BTC.
That's almost 10 times current share price.

Well, the preview of the contract seem like a nobrainer for me, so the only reason for the share price to drop must be lack of confidence that Ken will actually deliver what he estimated.

Or am I missing something?

I do not lack confidence, many others do not either.  On BTCT they are going for 0.001999, just a chance for cheaper shares.

400,000/25,000,000 = 0.016 * 4.5 =  0.072

I'm looking at this formula, 400,000 ASICMINER shares, 25 mil AM shares, ASICMINER is 1.6% share volume of AM, current value of ASICMINER shares is 4.5 (ish), 1.6% of the ASICMINER value is 0.072 per AM share.  This formula is based on AM being in the same ball park as ASICMINER, conservative adjustment down to 0.06 per share.  Probably ludicrous and way off the mark considering they are overvalued

[funkymunky]

I've been looking at this very closely and I'm unsure why too...

In a selfish way though it has benefited me as I've been selling off more AsicMiner shares to purchase more of these over the past few days.

I see that the price of AMC shares are dropping on bitfunder, they are around 0.0013 now.

Ken's "estimated gross combined profit and revenue / share" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158806.msg2649462#msg2649462) for 12 months is said to be 0.01108 BTC.
That's almost 10 times current share price.

Well, the preview of the contract seem like a nobrainer for me, so the only reason for the share price to drop must be lack of confidence that Ken will actually deliver what he estimated.

Or am I missing something?

[funkymunky]

Haha, I've previously done that calculation too.
We can hope 

I see that the price of AMC shares are dropping on bitfunder, they are around 0.0013 now.

Ken's "estimated gross combined profit and revenue / share" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158806.msg2649462#msg2649462) for 12 months is said to be 0.01108 BTC.
That's almost 10 times current share price.

Well, the preview of the contract seem like a nobrainer for me, so the only reason for the share price to drop must be lack of confidence that Ken will actually deliver what he estimated.

Or am I missing something?

I do not lack confidence, many others do not either.  On BTCT they are going for 0.001999, just a chance for cheaper shares.

400,000/25,000,000 = 0.016 * 4.5 =  0.072

I'm looking at this formula, 400,000 ASICMINER shares, 25 mil AM shares, ASICMINER is 1.6% share volume of AM, current value of ASICMINER shares is 4.5 (ish), 1.6% of the ASICMINER value is 0.072 per AM share.  This formula is based on AM being in the same ball park as ASICMINER, conservative adjustment down to 0.06 per share.  Probably ludicrous and way off the mark considering they are overvalued

[Stuartuk]

However I do think with the experience so far on this thread we do need some assurances written into the contract  over how and when the shareholders are kept informed and updated on the progress of the business plan. The silence on here from Ken a week ago was deafening. So we need Ken or another AM employee on here everyday answering genuine questions. I think a short sentence in the contract commiting the company to that will keep AM focused and on the ball.

To keep the contract simple, I don't think we need to put that in.  At the moment we have limited amount of time to be on the board, as we are trying to get a number of things put together.  I for one will be flying to our Engineering firm to flash the prototypes in about a week.  Should we get eASIC paid the NRE, I will be working with them in California to the the RTL perfect with 20 hashing engines.  So, there is a lot to do. However, ever since we have started AMC we have put out a number of Press Releases, so much that Ukto on bitfunder limited us to one per week.

Fair enough Ken I'm sure we all understand you have an ever growing business to run but would just ask you to remember that the business is funded by shareholders and without their confidence (in you and your plans) and their backing there is no business. I'm sure you've taken on board the importance of communicating with and being open with shareholders. And especially when they raise valid concerns. Actually to your credit you did recognise the fact that a lot of those being called 'trolls' last week by some thread members were actually making valid criticisms, and to be fair to you you have taken onboard pretty much everything people were complaining about and acted quickly.

So in summary then:
1) the community raised valid concerns
2) You acted (fairly) quickly and have made significant changes.

I applaud you for firstly recognising changes had to be made and secondly for making those changes speedily and effectively and also for communicating with the community far more so than before. I'm sure most of us feel this episode painful though it was has made the company stronger and more likely to excel.

[Stuartuk]

so the only reason for the share price to drop must be lack of confidence that Ken will actually deliver what he estimated.

Or am I missing something?

I would say maybe you are missing the crypto currency context. amc is valued against the bitcoin so what impact on amc quote would the 40% drop in btc value have?
Well there is a complex relationship there. You might  think amc should actually go up as that would reflect an unchanged value (in USD). But crucially amc mine btc for profits. so if btc was to drop to 1 dollar amc would probably be worthless as the profits to be made from miners wouldn't cover the electricity costs. So a drop in btc effects the amc bottom line. A 40% drop is significant. On the other side if btc went to 1000usd next week amc would likely shoot up.

You might also find some are liquidating their amc holdings to buy btc when it is so low and while it may have more short term up side potential than amc.

[kslaughter]

so the only reason for the share price to drop must be lack of confidence that Ken will actually deliver what he estimated.

Or am I missing something?

I would say maybe you are missing the crypto currency context. amc is valued against the bitcoin so what impact on amc quote would the 40% drop in btc value have?
Well there is a complex relationship there. You might  think amc should actually go up as that would reflect an unchanged value (in USD). But crucially amc mine btc for profits. so if btc was to drop to 1 dollar amc would probably be worthless as the profits to be made from miners wouldn't cover the electricity costs. So a drop in btc effects the amc bottom line. A 40% drop is significant. On the other side if btc went to 1000usd next week amc would likely shoot up.

You might also find some are liquidating their amc holdings to buy btc when it is so low and while it may have more short term up side potential than amc.

Yes, it is a complex relationship with bitcoin.  However, I have checked and we would still be profitable @ $5.00 bitcoins.