Avalon ASIC Batch #2 Income Sharing; arrived and hashing

[ProfMac]

An event has happened, and this is notice that the auction is closing in 48 or more hours.
Auction is partially closed atl block 235,532, which is expected near the time of my birthday.  Bids included in later blocks will not win.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Number+of+minutes+until+3%3A15+AM%2C+May+10+divided+by+10

Fixed price sale is closed.

At this time, I have stopped accepting new payments to account 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E.

I will open a new address to auction additional shares.  The new details are posted below.
High bids listed here. Hand crafted post, some delays exist.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I successfully purchased an Avalon Batch #2 unit, Order Number 2997, on Feb 18, 2013.  I desire to purchase an Avalon Batch #3 unit now.  Time is of the essence.

The Bitcoin address that transferred the funds for that order is visible to anyone on the blockchain.

For batch #3, a 3 module unit (63 GH/s) costs ฿72.36 and a 4 module unit (85GH/s) costs ฿99.14.  I am willing to share my mining income from the Batch #2 unit in order to fund the Batch #3 purchase.  You will be able to support a mining operation without investing the full amount of a miner.

No one knows whether a competing company will make an entry into the market, so it is not possible to make good estimates of future income.  Other companies may experience delays and we will be very content.  An unsuspected governmental player may turn on a large, privately developed farm and devastate us all.

However, this is a really good deal.  I expect to have my Batch #2 unit under way before any Batch #3 units are shipped.

The Offer

You may purchase 1/100 (1 share) of the income of my Avalon Batch #2 ASIC Miner for each BTC 0.8683 paid to address 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E
(This is the direct replacement cost + 20% for early availability and make-ready for administration and utilities.)
You may buy any number of shares that you choose.
You may purchase shares at any time that you chose.
The transaction information at blockchain.info determines the time and amount of purchase transactions.
I will manage the unit and mine it as well as I am able.
I will only pay out from actual income.
I may mine in any mixture of mining pool or solo mining.
The system will have downtime, and you will not have recourse.
I will cover all operating costs.
I can walk to 2 wind turbines from here.  Electricity is not that expensive.
I may buy back your shares at the same price at any time and for any reason.  
I may allow overbooking in order to buy a 4 module Batch #3 unit.
Any buy-back will be Last Purchased, First Refunded and sent to the original purchasing address.  Buy soon, not late!
The shared income will be paid from address 18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC
Refunds will be paid from address 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E
I will pay by epochs.  A new epoch begins when someone purchases shares.
An epoch ends when I receive mining income or when I refund shares; it may end each week or month by declaration.
No gaps exist between epochs.
You may remain anonymous.  I don't need to know who you are, I will pay according to the blockchain.
Bitcoin is not taxed


Edited 2013-03-29 19:28:07 UT

I just made a deposit of 7.680025  BTC into the account.  The first deposit, 0.9906 BTC, is also mine, so I have 9.985748 shares.  These shares will be paid just like the others, and are the mechanism to guarantee the electric bill and other expenses.  In time, I will make another payment so that I own exactly 10 shares.

[Dalkore]

What is the date and time this unit got confirmation from Walletbit of being fully paid for?


D

[zif33rs]

Someone must pay taxes on this income.  This is complicated and evolving.  If you are anonymous, I will deduct approximately 30% (to be determined) and give it to the IRS.  If you provide your name, street address, email address, telephone number, and tax ID, and sign this information with the same address that I send payment to I will not deduct for taxes.  I will fulfill any legal and tax obligations that I have in this area, including those I learn about in the future.

I would think you only have to pay taxes if you exchanged it to fiat? Till its converted its not really income is it?

[ProfMac]

What is the date and time this unit got confirmation from Walletbit of being fully paid for?


D

Receipt

This is to confirm that you have created an order at Avalon ASIC of 56.25712356 BTC

Payment Details

Date: February 18, 2013 07:35:01 PM
Amount Paid: 56.25712356
Batch Number: 18978
Txid: 5268c88176f24dcaae4e862e9ec1ad696a6915a20f1de9a7fe7042ad9b2f3b9b
Thanks for choosing WalletBit

Need Assistance?

We're happy to help by phone at US: (702) 799-9950 or DK: 36 96 56 94, Monday to Friday 9:00am to 1:00 pm EST, or by email.

[ProfMac]

Someone must pay taxes on this income.  This is complicated and evolving.  If you are anonymous, I will deduct approximately 30% (to be determined) and give it to the IRS.  If you provide your name, street address, email address, telephone number, and tax ID, and sign this information with the same address that I send payment to I will not deduct for taxes.  I will fulfill any legal and tax obligations that I have in this area, including those I learn about in the future.

I would think you only have to pay taxes if you exchanged it to fiat? Till its converted its not really income is it?

I don't know.  Has anyone checked on this?

I'm thinking back to some comments made by Colossus on the Second Life currency exchange that he ran.  If I can verify your opinion, I will keep a very low profile and not even look in the direction of the IRS.  I absolutely will deal only in bitcoin, and not fiat.

[chriswen]

If you're just transfering bitcoin its okay.

Also, i can't believe you're valuing it at 250 bitcoin.  Also, it will not be generating 5 bitcoins a day for 50 days.  Batch 3 is scheduled to start shipping 22 days after batch 2.

[ProfMac]

If you're just transfering bitcoin its okay.

Give me a credible citation and I'll do away with the tax part.

Also, i can't believe you're valuing it at 250 bitcoin.  

ok.  How about this.  There are two auctions on eBay.  I'll calculate the total cost in BTC this way:

The final cost of the eBay auction for the USD equivalent, and the weighted average of the bid price on Bitfloor going back at least 1 hour before the eBay close, and at least 50 executions.

and I will round down to the next smallest 10 btc.  For example, $10,200 / 78.45 --> 1/130 of the income per BTC

I'll even be generous and give you the better of the two deals.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140937986794?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130873536329?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

Also, it will not be generating 5 bitcoins a day for 50 days.  Batch 3 is scheduled to start shipping 22 days after batch 2.

Give me a link for an analysis.

[paraipan]

Nice offer. Btw, you actually bought 4 units?

[ProfMac]

Nice offer. Btw, you actually bought 4 units?

I only had funds for 1 unit.  And Walletbit confused me a lot.  So 3 of the purchases were not real, and were cancelled.  I didn't expect my shopping cart to be public information, how did you find out?

[paraipan]

Nice offer. Btw, you actually bought 4 units?

I only had funds for 1 unit.  And Walletbit confused me a lot.  So 3 of the purchases were not real, and were cancelled.  I didn't expect my shopping cart to be public information, how did you find out?

Ah ok, never mind. Is all public info on the blockchain.

[Frankie Delaney]

There are various estimates of the bitcoin based daily income for the Avalon.  I think the consensus is between BTC 3 & BTC 7.  

This is bitcoin, bitcoin is about math. There is no consensus and there is no BTC7. RIGHT NOW, a 3 module avalon should make 4.9 per day. After batch 2 ships, it will be 3.5 a day, after batch 3 2.2 a day. This is assuming nobody else gets anything else on the network. batch 1 of BFL and stage 2 of ASICminer will knock it down to about 1.22 per day.

I'm not here to step on your toes, just trying to keep an honest miner honest.

[Rampion]

Really don't want to screw your post, but at least one of the auctions looks very scammy because of the bidding pattern. 250BTC is a high price indeed, and those auctions aren't solid enough to base the price on them imo.

I think you could share with us a scenario you expect based on difficulty projection and profitability decline per year factor - if the difficulty goes x2 there you go with 2.5BTC per day, with difficulty increasing week by week, imo that's the more likely scenario.

[Rampion]

There are various estimates of the bitcoin based daily income for the Avalon.  I think the consensus is between BTC 3 & BTC 7.  

This is bitcoin, bitcoin is about math. There is no consensus and there is no BTC7. RIGHT NOW, a 3 module avalon should make 4.9 per day. After batch 2 ships, it will be 3.5 a day, after batch 3 2.2 a day. This is assuming nobody else gets anything else on the network. batch 1 of BFL and stage 2 of ASICminer will knock it down to about 1.22 per day.

I'm not here to step on your toes, just trying to keep an honest miner honest.

This. And add that you never get 24/7 uptime. 250BTC is a lot and no way you get a ROI in 50 days, this is pure math.

[ProfMac]

There are various estimates of the bitcoin based daily income for the Avalon.  I think the consensus is between BTC 3 & BTC 7.  

This is bitcoin, bitcoin is about math. There is no consensus and there is no BTC7. RIGHT NOW, a 3 module avalon should make 4.9 per day. After batch 2 ships, it will be 3.5 a day, after batch 3 2.2 a day. This is assuming nobody else gets anything else on the network. batch 1 of BFL and stage 2 of ASICminer will knock it down to about 1.22 per day.

I'm not here to step on your toes, just trying to keep an honest miner honest.

jgarzik reported BTC 7.1 from his batch #1 unit in #bitcoin-dev yesterday or so, that's where I got that number.

1.22 / day / 250 means return your money in 204 days.
If that is too slow, don't buy in.  Don't use my estimates, get your own.  Your mileage may vary.
BLF will deliver overwhelming computational power in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr,
They may be redesigned to have ventricles. (Jerry Pournelle, if you are old enough to remember.)

[Frankie Delaney]

There are various estimates of the bitcoin based daily income for the Avalon.  I think the consensus is between BTC 3 & BTC 7.  

This is bitcoin, bitcoin is about math. There is no consensus and there is no BTC7. RIGHT NOW, a 3 module avalon should make 4.9 per day. After batch 2 ships, it will be 3.5 a day, after batch 3 2.2 a day. This is assuming nobody else gets anything else on the network. batch 1 of BFL and stage 2 of ASICminer will knock it down to about 1.22 per day.

I'm not here to step on your toes, just trying to keep an honest miner honest.

jgarzik reported BTC 7.1 from his batch #1 unit in #bitcoin-dev yesterday or so, that's where I got that number.

1.22 / day / 250 means return your money in 204 days.
If that is too slow, don't buy in.  Don't use my estimates, get your own.  Your mileage may vary.
BLF will deliver overwhelming computational power in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr,
They may be redesigned to have ventricles. (Jerry Pournelle, if you are old enough to remember.)

jgarzik found 2 blocks in 1 day, and made BTC50 in 1 day, why aren't you including that in your numbers.

[Rampion]

There are various estimates of the bitcoin based daily income for the Avalon.  I think the consensus is between BTC 3 & BTC 7.  

This is bitcoin, bitcoin is about math. There is no consensus and there is no BTC7. RIGHT NOW, a 3 module avalon should make 4.9 per day. After batch 2 ships, it will be 3.5 a day, after batch 3 2.2 a day. This is assuming nobody else gets anything else on the network. batch 1 of BFL and stage 2 of ASICminer will knock it down to about 1.22 per day.

I'm not here to step on your toes, just trying to keep an honest miner honest.

jgarzik reported BTC 7.1 from his batch #1 unit in #bitcoin-dev yesterday or so, that's where I got that number.

1.22 / day / 250 means return your money in 204 days.
If that is too slow, don't buy in.  Don't use my estimates, get your own.  Your mileage may vary.
BLF will deliver overwhelming computational power in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr,
They may be redesigned to have ventricles. (Jerry Pournelle, if you are old enough to remember.)

Don't be upset. Just run proper calculations with http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ taking into account a) current difficult, b) difficulty projection based on last two weeks increase, c) profitability decline, d) hashrate taking into account you won't get 24/7 uptime

You will see that 99% it will be impossible to get 250BTC back in 50 days with batch 2 Avalon.

[SolarSilver]

jgarzik found 2 blocks in 1 day, and made BTC50 in 1 day, why aren't you including that in your numbers.

Variance...

I'm getting about BTC 17 / day on BTC Guild which is currently in a streak of bad luck, so about BTC 5.6 / day per Avalon @ 70 GH/s

[ProfMac]

Really don't want to screw your post, but at least one of the auctions looks very scammy because of the bidding pattern. 250BTC is a high price indeed, and those auctions aren't solid enough to base the price on them imo.

I think you could share with us a scenario you expect based on difficulty projection and profitability decline per year factor - if the difficulty goes x2 there you go with 2.5BTC per day, with difficulty increasing week by week, imo that's the more likely scenario.

I don't want to defend any particular ROI scenario at all.  That is an area of pure speculation.

A lot of bright people read these forums.  Feel free to quote one of the more credible projections and build a case for a lower price.

I assume it is fairly transparent that I want to fund an Avalon Batch #3 purchase, but my only asset at the moment is the Batch #2 confirmed purchase.  I am willing to consider any reasonable changes to this offer with a view of producing liquidity soon.

[ProfMac]

There are various estimates of the bitcoin based daily income for the Avalon.  I think the consensus is between BTC 3 & BTC 7.  

This is bitcoin, bitcoin is about math. There is no consensus and there is no BTC7. RIGHT NOW, a 3 module avalon should make 4.9 per day. After batch 2 ships, it will be 3.5 a day, after batch 3 2.2 a day. This is assuming nobody else gets anything else on the network. batch 1 of BFL and stage 2 of ASICminer will knock it down to about 1.22 per day.

I'm not here to step on your toes, just trying to keep an honest miner honest.

jgarzik reported BTC 7.1 from his batch #1 unit in #bitcoin-dev yesterday or so, that's where I got that number.

1.22 / day / 250 means return your money in 204 days.
If that is too slow, don't buy in.  Don't use my estimates, get your own.  Your mileage may vary.
BLF will deliver overwhelming computational power in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr,
They may be redesigned to have ventricles. (Jerry Pournelle, if you are old enough to remember.)

jgarzik found 2 blocks in 1 day, and made BTC50 in 1 day, why aren't you including that in your numbers.

Those numbers suggest a full payback in 5 days with the 1/250 share model.  Thanks for mentioning them.

I don't think I will have income that high.  He was first, there will be 900 Avalons online when I am operational.

[davecoin]

Really don't want to screw your post, but at least one of the auctions looks very scammy because of the bidding pattern. 250BTC is a high price indeed, and those auctions aren't solid enough to base the price on them imo.

I think you could share with us a scenario you expect based on difficulty projection and profitability decline per year factor - if the difficulty goes x2 there you go with 2.5BTC per day, with difficulty increasing week by week, imo that's the more likely scenario.

I don't want to defend any particular ROI scenario at all.  That is an area of pure speculation.

Right there. Regardless of what the payback period is, this offer still allows people like myself to be a part of mining (although not a very hands-on one) and be an active part of the bitcoin community.  What method will you use for bookkeeping and payouts?  Can we request payouts to a particular address?  Do you plan to list on btct.co and allow shares to be traded? 

Thanks,
Dave

[ProfMac]

Don't be upset. Just run proper calculations with http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ taking into account a) current difficult, b) difficulty projection based on last two weeks increase, c) profitability decline, d) hashrate taking into account you won't get 24/7 uptime

You will see that 99% it will be impossible to get 250BTC back in 50 days with batch 2 Avalon.

I hope I don't come across as upset.
That calculator is a cool web page.  Thanks for sharing it.
I don't really have any idea of what numbers to plug into it.
My electricity rates are below 8.2¢ / kwh.

[ProfMac]

Really don't want to screw your post, but at least one of the auctions looks very scammy because of the bidding pattern. 250BTC is a high price indeed, and those auctions aren't solid enough to base the price on them imo.

I think you could share with us a scenario you expect based on difficulty projection and profitability decline per year factor - if the difficulty goes x2 there you go with 2.5BTC per day, with difficulty increasing week by week, imo that's the more likely scenario.

I don't want to defend any particular ROI scenario at all.  That is an area of pure speculation.

Right there. Regardless of what the payback period is, this offer still allows people like myself to be a part of mining (although not a very hands-on one) and be an active part of the bitcoin community.  What method will you use for bookkeeping and payouts?  Can we request payouts to a particular address?  Do you plan to list on btct.co and allow shares to be traded? 

Thanks,
Dave

If those answers are not in the original post, I have failed as a writer.  That's bad, bad news for a professor.

I will use the blockchain.  It will tell who paid, how much they paid, and who I should send the payments back to.  It is the full audit trail, and it is viewable by anyone.  You are anonymous or not, under your control.

In time, I will write some software to directly read the blockchain and construct the payout TXns.  In the present, I will just read on the web and click the mouse endlessly to make things go.

The link in the original post leads to a transaction on blockchain.info that shows when I paid for the avalon.  If you create a new payment address that is only used for this venture, the blockchain.info report on that address will show how much you have paid in, and how much your have received back.

I will only pay to the address that bought into the venture.  I can manually cash out someone, and they can sign up with a new address, and that will accomplish an address change.  For a large group, this will become very tedious.

You can look at the signup address, 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E, in blockchain to see how many people have signed up.  It's a pretty quick read right now 

I don't envision a way to trade this offer.

[davecoin]

Excellent, thank you for the details.

[ProfMac]

Don't be upset. Just run proper calculations with http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ taking into account a) current difficult, b) difficulty projection based on last two weeks increase, c) profitability decline, d) hashrate taking into account you won't get 24/7 uptime

You will see that 99% it will be impossible to get 250BTC back in 50 days with batch 2 Avalon.

I have run a calculation from this page.
I entered these numbers:

Conversion Rate: 79.99 (The limit sell value on BitFloor at this time.)
Hash rate (MHash/s): 65,000.00 (the advertised rate)
Electricity rate (USD/kWh): 0.08192 (The expensive winter rate.)
Power consumption (W): 650
Cost of Mining Hardware: $1499 (Is there a page that is all BTC based?  I don't need to have USD involved)

Results
Hardware break even:  4 days
Net Profit first time frame (3 months): 31928.05 USD
$31,928.05 / 250 portions = $127.71 / portion = $127.71 paid for bitcoin = $127 / 77.99

That is 63% interest paid in 90 days.  This is not guaranteed.  It is just some numbers plugged into the suggested web page.  It is an illustration for your amusement only.  Things will go wrong.  Things always go wrong.

[shibaji]

Don't be upset. Just run proper calculations with http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ taking into account a) current difficult, b) difficulty projection based on last two weeks increase, c) profitability decline, d) hashrate taking into account you won't get 24/7 uptime

You will see that 99% it will be impossible to get 250BTC back in 50 days with batch 2 Avalon.

I have run a calculation from this page.
I entered these numbers:

Conversion Rate: 79.99 (The limit sell value on BitFloor at this time.)
Hash rate (MHash/s): 65,000.00 (the advertised rate)
Electricity rate (USD/kWh): 0.08192 (The expensive winter rate.)
Power consumption (W): 650
Cost of Mining Hardware: $1499 (Is there a page that is all BTC based?  I don't need to have USD involved)

Results
Hardware break even:  4 days
Net Profit first time frame (3 months): 31928.05 USD
$31,928.05 / 250 portions = $127.71 / portion = $127.71 paid for bitcoin = $127 / 77.99

That is 63% interest paid in 90 days.  This is not guaranteed.  It is just some numbers plugged into the suggested web page.  It is an illustration for your amusement only.  Things will go wrong.  Things always go wrong.

You forgot to change the difficulty.

[ProfMac]

You forgot to change the difficulty.

I got this difficulty from https://blockchain.info/stats.  Should I use a different one?

[shibaji]

You forgot to change the difficulty.

I got this difficulty from https://blockchain.info/stats.  Should I use a different one?

Unless you have the unit in hand ready to hash, the difficulty needs to be adjusted with probable future rate.

[theGECK]

Regarding taxes:

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

For an explanation, http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-396.pdf starting on page 13.

Essentially, you don't have to worry until you convert it into fiat. I suppose if you bought physical goods worth over $600 that might be debatable, but just getting BTC is not regulated.

And actually there's one last thing I forgot. Under "De-Centralized Virtual Currencies" -
so, I mean, they're leaving no doubt here. They said: "A final type of convertible virtual
currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no
central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their
own computing or manufacturing effort. A person that creates units of this convertible
virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the
convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter."

[ProfMac]

Regarding taxes:

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

For an explanation, http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-396.pdf starting on page 13.

Essentially, you don't have to worry until you convert it into fiat. I suppose if you bought physical goods worth over $600 that might be debatable, but just getting BTC is not regulated.

And actually there's one last thing I forgot. Under "De-Centralized Virtual Currencies" -
so, I mean, they're leaving no doubt here. They said: "A final type of convertible virtual
currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no
central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their
own computing or manufacturing effort. A person that creates units of this convertible
virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the
convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter."

I have tipped one poster in the past.  You are a candidate for Nr. 2.  But I don't see any payment address in your signature.  I think that if you just update the signature, all your posts will show the new (current) one.

[theGECK]

I removed it because I wasn't active on these forums anymore and didn't want people wasting their BTC on me sending to a defunct address that I don't have the keys to anymore, but if you're going to offer, how can I refuse!

[ProfMac]

I removed it because I wasn't active on these forums anymore and didn't want people wasting their BTC on me sending to a defunct address that I don't have the keys to anymore, but if you're going to offer, how can I refuse!

Wise man.

Also, I have substantially changed the opening post.

[Rampion]

You forgot to change the difficulty.

I got this difficulty from https://blockchain.info/stats.  Should I use a different one?

Yeah. Make difficulty at least x2 (12,695,826). And please, in the USD cost of the hardware insert the price you are willing your investors to pay (250BTC, which at the current exchange rate is almost 20k). The details you should consider:

• Difficulty: at least x2 (12,695,826)
• Hashrate: make it 60,000, as you won't get 24/7 uptime
• Electricity rate: use your own ($0.08)
• Power consumption: 620w
• Time frame: as you wish (3 months in this example)
• Cost of mining hardware (USD): multiply 250BTC x current USD exchange rate = $19,767.5
• Profitability decline per year: I would suggest to insert 0.3 or lower (difficulty will raise fast. For my own calculations I usually use 0.1)

With that reasonable parameters your investors would be looking at ROI in 124 days. Probably more if difficulty goes x10 by the end of the year.

I think that you'r big mistake was:

- considering that the difficulty will be the same
- more important: including in the "cost of mining hardware" what it costed to YOU, not what it will cost to your investor (which is the point, don't you think?)

[theGECK]

What will happen to the received BTC if you do not get enough to purchase the Series 3?

[shibaji]

• Profitability decline per year: I would suggest to insert 0.3 or lower (difficulty will raise fast. For my own calculations I usually use 0.1)

I think this is reverse. 0.3 means in next year you are expected to earn 30% less. So, 0.1 means 10% less (i.e., you retain income level at 90% of first year). So, to be pessimistic, put in higher value.

[Rampion]

• Profitability decline per year: I would suggest to insert 0.3 or lower (difficulty will raise fast. For my own calculations I usually use 0.1)

I think this is reverse. 0.3 means in next year you are expected to earn 30% less. So, 0.1 means 10% less (i.e., you retain income level at 90% of first year). So, to be pessimistic, put in higher value.

No, it does not work like that. Play with that variable in http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ and you will see

[ProfMac]

What will happen to the received BTC if you do not get enough to purchase the Series 3?

Since I already have a paid order for the Batch #2, I will deliver what I promised.

So long as I have not spent the coin on Batch #3, I don't mind returning money to anyone who wants out, for any reason.

Batch #2 did re-open after Avalon did an audit on the orders that were paid or not.  So I suppose I should still try to gather the BTC 75 or so in case a Batch #3 becomes available.

[hchc]

You may purchase 1/100 (1 share) of the income of my Avalon Batch #2 ASIC Miner for each BTC 0.8683
</quote>

So can I buy out your batch #2 avalon with 86.83btc?

[ProfMac]

You may purchase 1/100 (1 share) of the income of my Avalon Batch #2 ASIC Miner for each BTC 0.8683
</quote>

So can I buy out your batch #2 avalon with 86.83btc?

There are some things to keep in mind:

Others have already bought in.
You cannot take possession of the device.
I have a buy-back right against your shares.

[ProfMac]

If you're just transfering bitcoin its okay.

Also, i can't believe you're valuing it at 250 bitcoin.  Also, it will not be generating 5 bitcoins a day for 50 days.  Batch 3 is scheduled to start shipping 22 days after batch 2.

I think the Avalon Batch #2 is supposed to ship soon.  I don't understand why you think it will be 50 days before it mines a block.

[PassiTheApe]

Can you tell me the quotient MH/s/share?

[ProfMac]

Can you tell me the quotient MH/s/share?

That is public knowledge.

I see numbers of about 65 Gh/s quoted for the Avalon Batch #2 unit.
The entire output of the unit is set at 100 shares.

I think that comes to 650 MH/s  / share

It would be interesting to calculate how many high end Radeon GPUs 1 share is equivalent to.

[theGECK]

Can you tell me the quotient MH/s/share?

That is public knowledge.

I see numbers of about 65 Gh/s quoted for the Avalon Batch #2 unit.
The entire output of the unit is set at 100 shares.

I think that comes to 650 MH/s  / share

It would be interesting to calculate how many high end Radeon GPUs 1 share is equivalent to.

It looks like a 7970 can get around 1000-1200 Mh/s with the right settings, but working ones cost around $400 on eBay and use more power than an ASIC, plus the (hopefully small) power cost of the computer running the mining software. So 1 share looks to be roughly equivalent to 1/2 of a properly configured 7970, and roughly equivalent to 1 7970 being run with standard settings (according to numbers higher on the page).

[ProfMac]

...

The Offer


I may buy back your shares at the same price at any time and for any reason.  
I may allow overbooking in order to buy a 4 module Batch #3 unit.
Any buy-back will be Last Purchased, First Refunded and sent to the original purchasing address.  Buy soon, not late!

...

I will pay by epochs.  A new epoch begins when someone purchases shares.
An epoch ends when I receive mining income or when I refund shares; it may end each week or month by declaration.
No gaps exist between epochs.
Bitcoin is not taxed

There is activity in my PM on the issue of buy-back.  One concern is that I will contrive a "free loan" and another concern is about how the timing plays out between income to the venture and any payback that I initiate.

I tried to make a sensible offer up front.  
I think that people get uncomfortable if the offer changes after they have put money in.
I tried to make the rules minimal, because the more complicated they are, the more difficult it is to understand them.
I was in a hurry to try to fund a batch #3, so there is always a chance that I crafted a really bad rule in there somewhere, I hope not.  

So here are some scenarios:

1.  Spring flood puts my house underwater.  I can't mine any more.  I refund everyone their coin.  This scenario is covered under the offer.
2.  Drama Queen makes a purchase, and takes a vastly excessive amount of attention.  I refund him his money, and everyone can read the bit-chain and verify this.  It's covered under the offer.
3.  A big payment comes in, and I don't want to share.  I refund everyone's money.  Oops!  The epoch ended when the payment came in, I can't manipulate things this way.
4.  Snipe wants to buy in as late as possible so that he gets paid without having his coin tied up.  I think he has a chance of missing a payment by buying in late and that offsets the advantage he might get by buying late.  I thought the rules were "good enough" to handle this.

5.  Greed tries to buy 300% of my production.  Hmm.  I can refund back down to about 90% sold out.  I can keep the coin and buy more hashing power, provided that the pay schedule is met.  Both scenarios are ok with the rules of the offer.

6.  Hopper wants to get their money back and move on.  I'll try to be cool.  If I can buy back,  I'll announce a buy-back here even though I don't have to.  I'll refund everyone who bought in more recent than the bored dude.  Everyone then decides if they really want back in, want back in stronger, or whatever.  It's covered under the scenario.  It is a tad tedious.  This is the place where I will tweak the rules in any new venture.

There is a Batch #2 pre-order for sale.  Woo Hoo!  Buy shares now!

I don't think making more and more rules makes a deal safer.  That goes for any deal, not just this one.  Honey scammer don't care.  Ultimately, you have to trust the good guys and distrust the bad guys.  Good luck if figuring out who is who.

I'm interested in crafting the rules for deals, so I welcome discussion on this, and I will tweak the rules for the next venture that I start.

[ProfMac]

• Profitability decline per year: I would suggest to insert 0.3 or lower (difficulty will raise fast. For my own calculations I usually use 0.1)

I think this is reverse. 0.3 means in next year you are expected to earn 30% less. So, 0.1 means 10% less (i.e., you retain income level at 90% of first year). So, to be pessimistic, put in higher value.

No, it does not work like that. Play with that variable in http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ and you will see

Does anyone want to predict delivery date for the Batch #2 devices, or perhaps give an update on the anticipated earnings per share?

[dchou]

I've been playing around with the mining profitability calculator.  It's such a moving target. There are just too many variables that have a significant impact on the bottom line.

That said.... I came up with about 0.9BTC/share for the first month. 

[ProfMac]

Edited 2013-03-29 19:28:07 UT

I just made a deposit of 7.680025  BTC into the account.  The first deposit, 0.9906 BTC, is also mine, so I have 9.985748 shares.  These shares will be paid just like the others, and are the mechanism to guarantee the electric bill and other expenses.  In time, I will make another payment so that I own exactly 10 shares.

I have made the adjusting payment of 0.012375 BTC so that I own 10 shares in the original offer.

At this time, I will stop accepting payment to account 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E.

I will open a new account to sell additional shares.  I will post those details below.

The new address is 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH
I have seeded a tiny payment, 0.04965694 BTC, to this address to be sure things are working.

Yo! Look Here!  This is an auction.  It is open now!

The auction partially ends on or about Friday, May 10, 2013
To be considered, your bid must be included in or before block 235,532.  If you are low on time, tip the miners generously.



Anyone may submit a payment in any amount at any time to this address.
The address initially represents a total of 10 shares.
The 10 incoming addresses that send the most total bitcoin will each have 1 share (1% of the mining income)
N.b. it does not matter how much the total of payments is, 1 address gets 1 share.  It is a multiple winner auction.
I can't tell if 1 person sends payments from several addresses.  Just letting you know that I know.  I think focus is a better strategy.

For each epoch, I will decide whether to increase the total number of shares represented by the address, or keep it the same.
From time to time I will refund payments from addresses that are not in the top cut.

[ProfMac]

Edited 2013-03-29 19:28:07 UT

I just made a deposit of 7.680025  BTC into the account.  The first deposit, 0.9906 BTC, is also mine, so I have 9.985748 shares.  These shares will be paid just like the others, and are the mechanism to guarantee the electric bill and other expenses.  In time, I will make another payment so that I own exactly 10 shares.

I have made the adjusting payment of 0.012375 BTC so that I own 10 shares in the original offer.

At this time, I will stop accepting payment to account 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E.

I will open a new account to sell additional shares.  I will post those details below.

The new address is 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH
I have seeded a tiny payment, 0.04965694 BTC, to this address to be sure things are working.

Anyone may submit a payment in any amount at any time to this address.
The address initially represents a total of 10 shares.
The 10 incoming addresses that send the most total bitcoin will each have 1 share (1% of the mining income)
N.b. it does not matter how much the total of payments is, 1 address gets 1 share.  It is a multiple winner auction.
I can't tell if 1 person sends payments from several addresses.  Just letting you know that I know.  I think focus is a better strategy.

For each epoch, I will decide whether to increase the total number of shares represented by the address, or keep it the same.
From time to time I will refund payments from addresses that are not in the top cut.

A question came in on the status of the first deal.  Nothing has changed on that deal.  If you bought 1 share representing 1% of the mining output, you still own it.  I still hope everyday to receive news that the Avalon has shipped.  I am doing behind the scenes preparation to bring it online. 

The only news there is that I'm not letting anyone else buy in at that price.

But I think that deal is undervalued.  I don't know what the market value is.  So I am holding an auction on another 10% of the mining output.  I notice that no one has bid.  That really surprises me.  At the moment, a bid of 0.01 BTC would buy a share.  I thought there would be a feeding frenzy.

[dchou]

I sent in my dollar.  Hopefully that will kick things off.

[theGECK]

Looks like 3 people have placed bids now. How long will this auction be open? If you don't raise enough, will all amounts be refunded, or will the bids be honored?

[dchou]

My understanding is:

Money sent to this address represents 10% of a Batch 2 Avalon.

Each bid put in represents 1% of output regardless of how much the bid is.

Only the top 10 bids will each get 1% of output.  The rest will get refunded.

Auctioning off this 10% is a way to value the investment of the original offer, where people paid .8683 BTC per 1% share.

[ProfMac]

My understanding is:

Money sent to this address represents 10% of a Batch 2 Avalon.

Each bid put in represents 1% of output regardless of how much the bid is.

Only the top 10 bids will each get 1% of output.  The rest will get refunded.

Auctioning off this 10% is a way to value the investment of the original offer, where people paid .8683 BTC per 1% share.

Yes.  Although as an editorial style I try to say either bitcoin or USD.  In this case, bitcoin.
Each bid, yes.  Not each transaction.  The total amount from each send address is 1 bid.
Yes, & yes, refunded.
Hmm.  I suppose.  Or perhaps it is a way to let me imagine I could have made untold riches "if only."  In a closer more pragmatic sense it is a way to value this 10% under the current market conditions.

[ProfMac]

Looks like 3 people have placed bids now. How long will this auction be open? If you don't raise enough, will all amounts be refunded, or will the bids be honored?

I have already fully paid for the Batch #2 machine, so I can deliver on my promise from the very first coin that was bid, and all the winning bids will be honored.  As a policy statement, even a 1 Satoshi winning bid will be honored.  I am betting on a stronger auction.  LOL.  If I were primarily a marketing guy, I would title this thread 1% of Avalon from 1 Satoshi & up.

I have stayed up late wondering if I need to announce a closing time.  I know that some people want to have very rigid rules about such things.  I don't know.  

It is not relevant, but I thought I might mention that I lived in the French Quarter, New Orleans some years ago, and the bars there don't close.  The people there think it that a closing time causes people to chug drinks, drive drunk, act reckless, and be dangerous.

I can imagine different scenarios that I need to handle, but I still don't know how I will decide.

1.  There are plenty of good bids, and another bid comes in.  I increase the number of shares in the auction, and the number of bids that I accept.  I probably keep the auction open.
2.  The lowest bid really is for 1 Satoshi.  I really want to keep the auction open.
3.  The machine arrives.  I could just start it up, and make the first payment with no announcement or fanfare.  
4.  Someone asks to be let out.  Sometimes there are compelling personal reasons.  
  a. Keeping the auction open will let this happen without special intervention.
  b. Keeping the top 1 or 2 unsuccessful bids for several days before making the refund lets them become successful again if I do make a refund.
5.  I just throw a dart at the calendar, and announced a closing time in advance.


Of course, please feel free to discuss this.  You may mention something important that I haven't thought of.

[svenp]

That's a lot of scenarios.  Given #2, you should just set a minimum bid.  People have already bid, but still, if you aren't going to accept low bids, might as well clear that up now with a minimum.  Speaking for myself, having a fixed end time is necessary and would encourage participation.

[ProfMac]

That's a lot of scenarios.  Given #2, you should just set a minimum bid.  People have already bid, but still, if you aren't going to accept low bids, might as well clear that up now with a minimum.  Speaking for myself, having a fixed end time is necessary and would encourage participation.

I don't like changing the rules after people are using them.  The low bid stands, since I have already published it. 

Are you saying you would not even bid 1 Satoshi if the auction does not have a fixed end time?

[theGECK]

That's a lot of scenarios.  Given #2, you should just set a minimum bid.  People have already bid, but still, if you aren't going to accept low bids, might as well clear that up now with a minimum.  Speaking for myself, having a fixed end time is necessary and would encourage participation.

I don't like changing the rules after people are using them.  The low bid stands, since I have already published it. 

Are you saying you would not even bid 1 Satoshi if the auction does not have a fixed end time?

A fixed end time gives people the certainty that they won't randomly lose their share 8 months into the project because somebody sent 1 satoshi more than them. Also as soon as you are hashing, people will start bidding because you will have proved it's a real thing, and that will be a lot of paperwork to keep up with - will you just keep a running tally of the top 10? What will you do with the ones underneath that, renew the BTC or will it just sit there forever in case they want to up their bid?

An open auction has a lot of room for abuse on both your end and on our end. I would say a good "end date" is after the first day of hashing. Personally, I wouldn't do an auction - I would have stuck with your plan #1, closed it on the first day of hashing, then re-released shares at an increased price once you've sent out payments to those who bought in to show you're actually legit(ish, at minimum). Many people are not going to buy into something from some guy who has non-standard terms that may or may not be better but even so the unit still hasn't arrived and there's no guarantee that you won't just walk away with the BTC. The people buying in are taking on a lot of risk (you'll walk away, the unit won't arrive, you won't pay out fully, the unit will break, your terms say you can buy them out at anytime, there's no guaranteed uptime to name a few) with no control. So, you only get the people who are willing to take more of a risk with BTC that's now worth over $100USD each, and that are looking into the Custom Hardware sub-forum. Pretty slim pickings, if you ask me. You'd probably do better if you put your post in the services section (mods willing), that you're auctioning off a portion of your ASIC mining and you will manage the mining for the people who can't buy one themselves. Just my two satoshis.

[Rampion]

Prof: your terms are quite complicate indeed. Just an advice: the simpler, the better.

[ProfMac]

Prof: your terms are quite complicate indeed. Just an advice: the simpler, the better.

That is very good advice.  The difficulty is in making it so.

[theGECK]

1. If I send you 10 BTC, what exactly do I get?

I think this is the thing that is confusing to people. It's difficult to parse the terms and figure out exactly what is being offered, especially with the many changes. It might be best to refund auction money (since there's very little in there) and get some simple terms hashed out to start again, this time with terms that are more simple.

Also, change the OP - move the text and put strikethrough through what isn't an option any more if you don't want to delete it. It's very confusing.

I'll PM you with some thoughts on simplifying the terms.

[ProfMac]

I went through all 3 pages of this thread but the more I read the less I understand the deal here. What I need to know is this:

1. If I send you 10 BTC, what exactly do I get? If I understood right, I get shares.
2. If at some point I decide to sell shares - cash out - I'd need to find a buyer for those shares, or you would buy them?

In other words, unless deal is as simple as me investing 10 BTC and getting 10+ BTC out of the deal easily, I don't see anything worth investing in there.

If you buy 1 share, you get 1% of the bitcoin from my batch #2 Avalon.  Some people think the payout will be large.
The only action on your end is to make 1 payment, with careful attention to both the paying and the receiving address.
If you set your price right, you will automatically get more back than you put in, no additional action from you.
All things end, and in time this rig will be decommissioned.  You will automatically get your original coin back at that time, with no additional action on your part.
I don't know how to make it simpler than a 1 payment action.

The new address is 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH
I have seeded a tiny payment, 0.04965694 BTC, to this address to be sure things are working.

This 2nd phase is not a fixed price purchase, it is an auction.  No matter what size payment you send, you are buying 1 share, 1%, only.  A 10 BTC purchase for 1 share only makes sense if you believe that the rig will mine more than 1,000 BTC during it's lifetime.

If you are outbid, you will be paid back, no additional action required on your part.  A day or so delay in payout will give you time to up your bid, and me time to handle my other life.

[ProfMac]

Prof: your terms are quite complicate indeed. Just an advice: the simpler, the better.

That is very good advice.  The difficulty is in making it so.

Check this deal, it worked flawlessly so far. I bought 1 module, that will be hosted in China.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158986.0

That is a great deal.  My electricity cost is much lower than his, perhaps you will have him ship his unit to my location.  It would save $950 / year.
 365 * 24 * 0.650 * ((25-8.2)*0.01)

My electricity rates are below 8.2¢ / kwh.

[ProfMac]

I got it, finaly!

Yeah!!

Care to help the other folks get it?

[ProfMac]

I got it, finaly!

Yeah!!

Care to help the other folks get it?

Alert!

Some transactions are coming in from multiple addresses.  Please be sure that the paying address is yours, and not hidden behind a mixer!

[Rampion]

Care to help the other folks get it?

I'd rather shot myself in the leg!

Joking, here it is:

1. There are 100 shares on sale.
2. Each share represents 1/100 of hashing power provided by Avalon batch 2 machine.
3. Each share guarantees 1/100 of mining profits generated by mentioned machine.
4. Owner of the share gets back at least the amount of bitcoins he invested in share.
5. Unless someone outbids owner of the share, he or she will be getting 1/100 of the mining profits for the lifetime of mentioned machine.

About multiple addresses - don't worry, I'm the owner of all those addresses. Paperwallets made for each of them, backup on 3 USB sticks and DVD-RW, etc.

So: only the 100 highest bidders get dividends - correct?

Where do we see the current higher and lower bid? It would be cool to know that if you bid less than X you won't be able to get in.

[theGECK]

I believe that only the top 10 highest bidders each receive 1% of the Avalon. He previously was selling 1% shares for a fixed price and I'm not sure how many people bought into that.

[dchou]

70% of the shares have already been bought at a fixed price.  The transaction log is here 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E.

This auction is for an additional 10% share.  The 10 highest bids in this auction will each get 1% share, after which 80% will have been sold. 

[ProfMac]

70% of the shares have already been bought at a fixed price.  The transaction log is here 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E.

This auction is for an additional 10% share.  The 10 highest bids in this auction will each get 1% share, after which 80% will have been sold.  

Yes.

For convenience, here are transaction logs for both ventures.

(70%, 70 shares) Fixed price of BTC 0.8683 per share, now closed to additional purchase.

(10%, 10 shares) Multi winner Auction for 1 share, 10 separate winners.

[theGECK]

(10%, 10 shares) Multi winner Auction for 1 share, 10 separate winners.

1) Are bids tied to addresses, such that each address' total bid is compared against every other addresses' total bid?
2) When are the bids tallied and we find out who won the auction and what address has the share?

[ProfMac]

That means total number of shares might become more than 100, or it just means you might opt to administer less than 10 addresses on your side? If it is the
former, it breaks the most important setting in this deal. One can't make any calculations or predictions if number of shares can change - increase - on your will.

I have defined 1 share as 1% of the machine's earnings.  
I have purchased 10 shares, and I will pay electricity, cooling, and other costs out of that dividend stream.
It does not matter how many shares I sell, the return per share is not diluted by other sales.  Unsold income, er, isn't sold.

I hope to have ฿72.36 or ฿99.14 in hand, I hope that the Batch #3 Avalons will open for a 2nd round of sales the same way that Batch #2 did, I hope BFL does not ship today, I hope that Batch #14 Avalon is on 14 nm ASICS and is a freestanding a solar powered sculpture, and I hope to successfully buy another mining rig.

With two machines, I can sell 175% of my first unit, and everything will be transparent, add up correctly, and work under the originally published Offer.  It may convince the casual onlooker into thinking I knew what I was doing all along.

[ProfMac]

(10%, 10 shares) Multi winner Auction for 1 share, 10 separate winners.

1) Are bids tied to addresses, such that each address' total bid is compared against every other addresses' total bid?
2) When are the bids tallied and we find out who won the auction and what address has the share?

For the auction, the following list of definitions may help.

Share --- what you buy.  Equivalent to 1% of the machine income.
Bid --- offer to buy 1 share.
Payment --- transfer of bitcoin from 1 single address to address 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH
Bids are tied to payment addresses.  A standard bid has 1 incoming and 1 outgoing address.  One address may make additional payments to increase the amount of that bid.
Transaction --- a bundle of 1 or more payments.  I might have a transaction for "band payment" that includes inputs from bar regulars Bob, Ted, Sue, and Alice, and outputs for guitar, vocalist, drummer, fiddler (I'm from Texas, ya gotta have a fiddle in the band.)

There is a mess with some bids coming from several incoming addresses.  The actual rule that I published is per address, and not per transaction.  

Complex Nerd & Administrative Stuff that you can skip:
Here is an example of using that rule:
I start a new wallet with bitcoin-QT, and create 11 addresses with it.  I deposit BTC 55.005 as follows:  1 coin to address 1, 2 coins to address 2, 3 coins to address 3 ... 10 coins to address 10, and 0.005 coins to address 11.
I send a BTC 55 payment from my wallet to the bidding address with a 0.005 Miner's fee.
This 1 transaction makes 10 separate bids.

[ProfMac]

At this point I just lost it. What exactly buys one share? Transaction or total sum of bitcoins sent from one address? If it is the later, it won't work
since only few use Armory wallet, which allows picking address or addresses that will be used as a source for bitcoins. For anyone else, sending more
bitcoins as a way to outbid some previous bid means high chance already used address will be used again, and that means new bitcoins sent will be
used to pump already placed bid instead of outbidding some other bid. I don't wanna end up paying 5 BTC for one share and some other guy getting
1 share for 0.1 BTC or less.

Let's not overcomplicate. 10 transactions which placed the most bitcoins own 1 share each. Don't bring addresses in, it will be a horror to manage bids.

Hmmm.

http://blockchain.info/ will let you import your wallet.  They will let you pick which address you make payment from.  They have 2 factor authentication.

Let me know what client you are using, I'll explore it.

[ProfMac]

You are funny. Unless one has 10 different addresses, each holding more bitcoins than bids aimed to be outbidden, there is no way he can own 10 shares.

When the auction opened, you could own 9 shares for 9 Satoshis.

Of course, when you split your bid, it is easy for each one to be outbid.  That is why I made a recommendation against it.

If you would like to help out the Sons of ProfMac, you could of course make 10 bids of BTC 100 each.  I would be very grateful.

[theGECK]

You are funny. Unless one has 10 different addresses, each holding more bitcoins than bids aimed to be outbidden, there is no way he can own 10 shares.

Easily creating new addresses is part of Bitcoin. In fact, creating a new address when you send for change to be returned to you was part of the original bitcoin software (not sure about how it works now, since I don't use that software.) blockchain.info allows you to create a new address and transfer money from one to another. If you had 3 BTC and wanted to send .8 3 times, you could split that into 2 new addresses and then send a .8 transaction from each of your three addresses. That would leave you with .6 in your wallet, and create bids from three addresses. I believe most wallet software allows you to do the same thing, since it's a part of the code.

And unless Prof is continually refunding bids, the auction will be difficult to manage from our end. If I send in a bid for .5 BTC and somebody sends in one for .6 BTC, the cost for me to outbid you is suddenly 1.2 BTC until I get a refund. And that just escalates very quickly.

Using separate addresses to differentiate between people is how you keep accountability and transparency. You can either have a separate address that somebody sends coins to (as many online stores do) or have separate addresses send coins to you (as group buys/etc do). The way prof is doing it allows for transparent bookkeeping to protect all of us.

[Rampion]

Hi Prof, still very complicate for me (maybe is just because english is not my native language). Simple question:

What is your ultimate goal? Maybe if you express it clearly, in two lines, we can find a mechanic that fulfills your goals and makes life easier for investors.

IMHO 1st phase is clear (you sell 70% of the shares for a fixed price per share), but I don't really get why do you use the blockchain for bids in the 2nd phase. Investors could just bid in the post (eg: 1@0.5BTC, etc.) as per all other auctions on these forums - I don't get using the blockchain unless outbidded investors are not refunded, which I think it's not the case.

Then, I would be more confident to invest if you established an "end date" for the auction. Otherwise investors cannot plan and stick to a bidding strategy.

Just my 2 satoshis...

[TheJuice]

The block chain bidding is ideal. It makes the bids binding. In my auction for CH shares, I had a few bids that were not honored. Love the innovation profmac.

Too bad my auction took too long, I was gathering those coins to invest with you prof.

2 questions:

1) End date for the auction - there has to be one for me to bid.
2) Will there be refunds to original address for non-winning bids?

Thx TheJucie

[Rampion]

The block chain bidding is ideal. It makes the bids binding. In my auction for CH shares, I had a few bids that were not honored. Love the innovation profmac.

Too bad my auction took too long, I was gathering those coins to invest with you prof.

2 questions:

1) End date for the auction - there has to be one for me to bid.
2) Will there be refunds to original address for non-winning bids?

Thx TheJucie

Report immediately the users that did not honor their bids in your post and they may get a scammer tag. As you may have noticed posts cannot be edited in auction subforum, they are binding.

[ProfMac]

For that to be true, I'd need to send 1 Satoshi from each of the 9 different addresses, than send more bitcoins individually for each and all addresses where my
bid was no longer the highest one.

Yes, exactly.

I will demonstrate that with 5 @ 1 Shatoshi bids in 1 transaction.  Then I will have an experienced view of how difficult the task is, and whether I have misunderstood something very important.

The bitcoin-qt client wants to add 0.000 5 BTC for a miner's fee.  Here is the set up transaction where I am putting exact amounts into each of the addresses.

What you are saying is that I don't own 5 shares for 0.1 BTC each but just 1 share for which I paid 0.5 BTC already. Unless I use some new addresses to send
bitcoins, I can bid on 1 and only 1 share - the one I own right now. Or I actualy own more than 1 share now, but I'd need to figure out how many bitcoins were
sent from each of addresses I've used already, else there is no way for me to figure out anything? One who has 10 BTC split on 10.000 addresses already lost
the auction? Unless one uses Armory, blockchain.info wallet or some other solution, he is pretty much screwed and might actualy seriously overpay the share.

[/quote

When I read this, I think you have not looked at the links I provided to blockchain.info  

Do you mind telling me what client you are using to pay?

You are correct.  You have a lot of non-winning bids.  We are not in a hurry here, and I think the winning bids will be higher than your bids, based on eBay bids of $20,100 or so for a batch #2 Avalon.  I will send the payments back to you, but I want you to verify a 2nd time that the addresses all belong to your wallet.  After I send payment to an address, I can't change it's destination.

I want it to be as simple as possible, but not simpler.  Most of the threads in these forums are involved in some type of dispute, and I don't want my own.  Paying money back to the same address it came in from makes all of the auditing be automatic and very simple.  Anyone in the world can see what I did, or did not, do.

The 10 incoming addresses that send the most total bitcoin will each have 1 share (1% of the mining income)
N.b. it does not matter how much the total of payments is, 1 address gets 1 share.  It is a multiple winner auction.
I can't tell if 1 person sends payments from several addresses.  Just letting you know that I know.  I think focus is a better strategy.

@ theGECK

You and Prof must be right, that is why there is incredible amount of interest in this offer. There are five pages of posts already not because it is unclear what
is offer about or because the deal is overcomplicated but because people just love to post, they do it for fun or to increase post count.

You want to attract as many people as possible and have fun but you are making managing the offer convenient for you only, at all costs it seems. What a joke!

You stand to gain something like BTC 5 per share in this deal.  

I walked to an ATM on a bank holiday in -26°F wind chill in blowing and drifting snow to move USD into bitcoin, and spent at least 6 hours trying to figure out the WalletBit web site while racing the clock and the other purchasers.  I was successful, and I am offering a second chance with more convenience, less time pressure, and less total funds to you and anyone.  

I will try to help you through this process, and I am sure that others will also offer help.

[ProfMac]

The block chain bidding is ideal. It makes the bids binding. In my auction for CH shares, I had a few bids that were not honored. Love the innovation profmac.

Too bad my auction took too long, I was gathering those coins to invest with you prof.

2 questions:

1) End date for the auction - there has to be one for me to bid.
2) Will there be refunds to original address for non-winning bids?

Thx TheJucie

The innovator is never properly rewarded.  He is forgotten under the accolades of those who make money from his innovations.
The block-chain is everything.
I am willing to pre-announce an end to the auction.  Will 24 or 48 hours of advance notice be enough? 
All non-winning auction bids will be refunded to the original payment address.

[theGECK]

You are funny. Unless one has 10 different addresses, each holding more bitcoins than bids aimed to be outbidden, there is no way he can own 10 shares.

When the auction opened, you could own 9 shares for 9 Satoshis.

For that to be true, I'd need to send 1 Satoshi from each of the 9 different addresses, than send more bitcoins individually for each and all addresses where my
bid was no longer the highest one.

That's precisely right, and how bitcoin auctions using the blockchain can differentiate between different bidders. How else can you validate yourself? Lets say we each sent in 3 transactions of .1 BTC. Lets also say that I'm not active in the forum, and then you come in and say that you sent in 5 transactions. Suddenly you've stolen my bids. Requiring the bid to be tied to the address is a great way to simplify bookkeeping on everybody's part and to keep your bitcoins safe from people like me who might say that I sent it in, and how would you prove that it was your transaction and not mine?

Let's complicate it more - only addresses starting with 1a2b3c are valid. I'm sure majority of bitcoiners would love it.

This statement makes no sense. Addresses are randomly generated and unique - there's no reason to have a qualification on address.

What you are saying is that I don't own 5 shares for 0.1 BTC each but just 1 share for which I paid 0.5 BTC already. Unless I use some new addresses to send bitcoins, I can bid on 1 and only 1 share - the one I own right now. Or I actualy own more than 1 share now, but I'd need to figure out how many bitcoins were sent from each of addresses I've used already, else there is no way for me to figure out anything? One who has 10 BTC split on 10.000 addresses already lost the auction? Unless one uses Armory, blockchain.info wallet or some other solution, he is pretty much screwed and might actualy seriously overpay the share.

LOL?

1st - I've not heard of armory before. I looked it up and it looks nice. Please let us know what client you are using - I am fairly certain that specifying sending address will be an option. But you are correct, right now you own a bunch of bids. There's time until the auction is over (Prof - this is the #1 question that you're not answering. Please answer it. It will make everybody happier.) and we can figure it out.

@ theGECK

You and Prof must be right, that is why there is incredible amount of interest in this offer. There are five pages of posts already not because it is unclear what is offer about or because the deal is overcomplicated but because people just love to post, they do it for fun or to increase post count.

You want to attract as many people as possible and have fun but you are making managing the offer convenient for you only, at all costs it seems. What a joke!

"Convenient for you only, at all costs".
1) Not sure how I got roped into this, since I'm not the one who set the rules. I just agree with them.
2) Seeing that what we're talking about is how Bitcoin has worked since day 1, I don't think that it's a matter of convenience for Prof. It's a matter of making sure that nobody can lay claim to bids in the future. If there's ever a dispute, whomever can send from that address owns the bid - conflict resolution becomes very simple.
3) Again, this is how Bitcoin works. You send coins from an address that you have the private key to sign the transactions. Please let us know what you're using and we'll help you figure it out.

[theGECK]

The block chain bidding is ideal. It makes the bids binding. In my auction for CH shares, I had a few bids that were not honored. Love the innovation profmac.

Too bad my auction took too long, I was gathering those coins to invest with you prof.

2 questions:

1) End date for the auction - there has to be one for me to bid.
2) Will there be refunds to original address for non-winning bids?

Thx TheJucie

The innovator is never properly rewarded.  He is forgotten under the accolades of those who make money from his innovations.
The block-chain is everything.
I am willing to pre-announce an end to the auction.  Will 24 or 48 hours of advance notice be enough? 
All non-winning auction bids will be refunded to the original payment address.

I would prefer the date be tied to something concrete, such as the arrival of the unit, and for 48 hours notice to happen. Personal preference, I'll be happy with anything that would make it certain.

[ProfMac]

The most of bitcoiners are using either Bitcoin-Qt or MultiBit, and you just excluded all of them from the auctions. I do not trust blockchain.info and I don't
want to mess with Armory since it crashes randomly on my WinXP computer, sometimes causing even system lockup. Unless I can participate using the most
widely used, trustable and stable solutions, I ain't gonna participate. You can send all my bitcoins back to any of those addresses which I used to place 0.1
BTC bids. Related transactions:

https://blockchain.info/tx/1df1ccf5d0f1f59d813d4283648a68ae3fb3db7f04697b9b2b0141cc954ab38f
https://blockchain.info/tx/d61a16dd4f407c493f70b022aee1d9266c01d617c7884be2312778634300948b
https://blockchain.info/tx/efe4576ba042ff44bf486dffd13c841bfc563da95ac88736ee5d066f9dccf732
https://blockchain.info/tx/30047845d2cdb04d3ade84f5a2d004a80aaaff01f9198861285191234237a897
https://blockchain.info/tx/36004fdfa95f8b1b7fb7481014d0c7b489d5f11ab53b7fb2da953b180d1e336e

I am corresponding in #bitcoin-dev about how to do this using bitcoin-QT.  
I will perfect the process with my own funds and addresses.
I will return your funds, each payment back to its original address.
I will write up the process.

The background reading is online.

There is a payment protocol document in the works.  I bookmarked it, but it's not on today's list.  I actually think my idea is better, and something like the PGP web of trust would also work well.  I am 0x17B56C41 or so in the PGP/GPG world.

[ProfMac]

You can't do it with Bitcoin-Qt. There is a patch but it is not tested, ask Gavin. With MultiBit, it is doable, but requires making a new wallet, sending bitcoins
to address in that wallet and then sending gathered bitcoins to auction address. Than repeat for each and all bid upping or outbidding someone else's bid. If
one is bidding on all 10 shares, that means making 10 new MultiBit wallets, each having just 1 address. I might do that actualy, since rage just went from me
to guy next door!

I'm online in #bitcoin-dev and looking at the expert console in bitcoin-qt.  Sipa is commenting a bit.

I'm depressed and have a thermos of coffee.  I thought I had it worked out to be easy and powerful.
I don't think the low level commands are safe for an auction of ordinary users, if there are ordinary users in the bitcoin community.


...
I can send from the command line.  The link a posting or so above tells how.
I don't see how from the GUI.
sipa is telling me to never reuse an address, that all the people who want to return payment are breaking the privacy structure.  I am telling him that transparent auditing is equally or more important.  I guess I'm gonna have to earn my easy money fixing this.  I don't think I'm gonna get a custom patch from him...

[svenp]

I'm pretty sure you can send from specific addresses with Bitcoin-qt using the command line version but not with the GUI.

I like the idea of having a 24-48 hour notice of the end of the auction posted.  Great stuff Prof!

subSTRATA: It's easy enough to set up a blockchain.info wallet and just use it for bidding.  Send what you need to the blockchain wallet and then distribute it to Prof for the auction bids.  After that you won't have anything sitting 'out there' to risk, the rest of your funds still sit in your local wallet.

Also, a little friendly criticism... there's pages of stuff in this thread involving your misunderstandings, lack of comprehension, complaints, etc. that could have been avoided if you just READ what Prof wrote earlier.  If a newb like me can get it, it's not that hard.  

[TheJuice]

48 hour notice is fine, but there is no incentive for me to bid early. i'll place my bids when the 48 hours is announced!

TJ

[ProfMac]

ProfMac,

Congrats on your success! You have inspired me to do the same with mine, and to auction it most similarly to how the forum auctions off advertising space: 50 slots available, 1 slot = 1% of income from the 85GH/s rig. This will allow people to get half their own Avalon for potentially as cheap as 25 BTC!

Keep us posted on how well yours goes! I see a lot of potential scams going on here with these resells and I want to know just how many of them are legit.

Welcome, thanks, and happy auctioneering!

[ProfMac]

48 hour notice is fine, but there is no incentive for me to bid early. i'll place my bids when the 48 hours is announced!

TJ

In the off chance that the Avalon Batch #3 is re-opened for purchase, I would consider it a strong event.

[svenp]

What are there bids with several 'from' addresses (and how are those even generated)?  Aren't bidders supposed to use a single from address?

[ProfMac]

What are there bids with several 'from' addresses (and how are those even generated)?  Aren't bidders supposed to use a single from address?

One person made all those bids.  He is using bitcoin-QT, and it is difficult to send payments from only 1 address with that client.  I have returned his total of 0.4 BTC.  I used the address that was one of the inputs, and is also the address that his change went to in all those transactions.

I think the easiest way to make a conforming transaction is to send funds to an address at blockchain.info.  That web page lets you pay from a selected address to 1 address.  I discovered that when I was trying to keep an audit trail before I sent out 56 BTC for the Avalon purchase.

He does not trust blockchain.info, and wants to keep funds in a wallet that he protects.  A suggestion was made that he send only enough funds to blockchain.info to pay for the bids that he intends to make, and then his only exposure will be for the few minutes it takes to do the transaction.  I had the sense that this arrangement was also unsatisfactory to him.

There is also another multi pay bid for a total of about 15 Satoshis.  That one is mine, for testing purposes.  I should have done the test with throw away addresses, I apologize for the clutter.

[TheJuice]

ProfMac -

Might help for you to post a daily highest bets. Lots of clutter and hard for me to tell the highest bets.

From the looks 0.1 is the highest?

TJ

[ProfMac]

I have returned his total of 0.4 BTC.  I used the address that was one of the inputs, and is also the address that his change went to in all those transactions.

0.1 BTC less than I sent total, since there were 5 transactions. Unless those remaining 0.1 BTC are valid bid, send them back as well, thanks!

I decided to do bidding properly over multiple MultiBit wallets. Major pain in the a55, but still better than messing with blockchain.info or Armory. Bids will be placed soon.

I have now sent 2 transactions totaling 0.5 BTC.

I am referencing these 5 incoming transactions

1df1ccf5d0f1f59d813d4283648a68ae3fb3db7f04697b9b2b0141cc954ab38f
d61a16dd4f407c493f70b022aee1d9266c01d617c7884be2312778634300948b
efe4576ba042ff44bf486dffd13c841bfc563da95ac88736ee5d066f9dccf732
30047845d2cdb04d3ade84f5a2d004a80aaaff01f9198861285191234237a897
36004fdfa95f8b1b7fb7481014d0c7b489d5f11ab53b7fb2da953b180d1e336e

Thank you for attempting to place a bid.  I would welcome a bid made from a single address if you choose to make one.

[ProfMac]

0.5 BTC placed earlier received. 3x 0.75 BTC placed, this time as requested.

Welcome back.  Thank you for your confidence.

[theGECK]

Does anybody know if there is a way to see which addresses are bidding which amounts and what the current winning addresses are without writing it down and calculating manually? When the bidding is close to closing it will probably be busy and manually calculating every transaction could take time that will otherwise be spent bidding.

[ProfMac]

Does anybody know if there is a way to see which addresses are bidding which amounts and what the current winning addresses are without writing it down and calculating manually? When the bidding is close to closing it will probably be busy and manually calculating every transaction could take time that will otherwise be spent bidding.

My hope is that some of the low level commands in bitcoind can handle this.  I am busy with some pressing RL issues (RL is Second Life slang for Real Life, and by extension my not-bitcoin day activities)

If anyone can code this up for the RPC interaction with bitcoind, I will be appreciative.  Else, I will do something, but not Thur or Fri.

-----
It turns out that some commands submitted to bitcoind can start this process.

1.  bitcoind listtransactions "Avalon Auction" > list-of-transactions.txt
2.  bitcoind getrawtransaction <transaction from list>  1 > getrawtransaction-1.txt
3.  inspect and locate "vin" and txid vout
4.  bitcoind getrawtransaction <this new transaction> 1 > getrawtransaction-2.txt

Now all the information is plastered all over these files.  It has to be parsed and checked for coherency.
Then put into a web database.

[ProfMac]

Does anybody know if there is a way to see which addresses are bidding which amounts and what the current winning addresses are without writing it down and calculating manually? When the bidding is close to closing it will probably be busy and manually calculating every transaction could take time that will otherwise be spent bidding.

The ideal thing is for me to have software that will harvest the blockchain and make database entries.

Code:

Hand Constructed, please audit.
I will be on a business trip most of the week of 4/15.  Updates will be delayed.

5	18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon	1.21000000  <-- current winners
1	12peTunkkUp88aRaUgndRBzPNSrEw3PDu7	1.17000000
2	1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg	1.16950000
1	1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu	1.16010000
2	1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8	1.16000000
3	1EkWkthDoxCXTyxRYVjtnmq13e8SbQNbs2	1.15000000
2	1NFtyTwefVtHXbxCPVZBG9H6SrujTxk4G6	1.15000000
5	18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt	1.14698120
4	1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1	1.10000000
3	1PnAWB2opLVyGFUmaCeyjdFZ3w88PgPbmb	1.10000000

2	1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4	1.00000001  <-- These bidders have sent multiple increases.
3	1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P	0.97000000        Keeping their bid a while in case they bid more.

2	13shEJVGamWDu1qkAjbjD8g62hacPFmjQc	0.00000000
2	14pDJaE7qWXgLAS4RbpVyq4ebsUPXEBXNa	0.00000000
2	16NUNbUCieHLZGVoGdCP7Uzp5pxDNp35UT	0.00000000
2	1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR	0.00000000
2	1AFA4ppBvYpdiDFidFUGsWo6nn2NTdAvzZ	0.00000000
2	1AFuCJXLNZEF2ktFw1WWgvo7guUghtino8	0.00000000
2	1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX	0.00000000
2	1CpXQhWptbYu4AAsmiEcos9f7rPgDHdALs	0.00000000
2	1F2472ponJGqDyKNLgFKPnFdXfXT46Hx3Y	0.00000000
2	1F79KrkTVrGSoHX8j52axHUZi66utRnmzZ	0.00000000
2	1FrpnnbV98mMVDk7xfvRYNkMdiVkHeo4CL	0.00000000
2	1GZzn1wN2SN1XF6zo6CkLh77tQGqTYJS46	0.00000000
2	1HWdsr5FjadLMFiaZZvS4YqXpR4aQwDTHX	0.00000000
2	1HZrAsW7i1P5TVrVxWmwxZyiKqyMsw1rC5	0.00000000
2	1LaMr73WuPknQqcnYx5B49hUV3njXtGkzv	0.00000000
3	1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL	0.00000000
2	1MaMD7C4zAYxZybmB87CgJKhojt97G7TAr	0.00000000
2	1nAmPPmyDkvd5FJscJhDZ4te9tFvaD4BS	0.00000000
2	1QKKFsCXYv1Ya2qyCiQGC2MVfioKon9w3L	0.00000000
1	1Q8nr8o5s9ZQfVy94EspjdpjteqqQmD1K	-0.01507825

A Batch #2 Avalon is selling for BTC 150.  Bid high, I can get another.

[ProfMac]

Could we have an open debate about the pools machine will be mining at? I think it is important matter, given not all pools are the same. My favourite
combination for pools is the following, sorted by pool overall effectivness:

1. BitParking - 4 coins merge mined, payout addresses bound to account, 2.5% PPS, minimum payout 0.1 for each coin
2. OzCoin - BTC + NMC merge mined, 1% DGM, 2% POT, 3% PPS, minimum payout 0.1 for each coin
3. BTCGuild - BTC + NMC merge mined, payout addresses can be locked, 5% PPS, minimum payout 0.1 for each coin
4. 50BTC - only bitcoins mined, payout address can be locked, 3% PPS, minimum payout 0.01 BTC

IMO machine should be setup for at least 4 pools with solo mining or P2P pool as the last failover option.

Comments welcomed.

I certainly welcome open debate.  I will review the debate closely.  I will accept the results as a recommendation. 

[theGECK]

I have heard that p2pool has trouble with ASICs, not sure why though, so I would investigate that first. I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain, so personally I'd like to go that direction. With that, I think a PPS pool would be wasting money because our hash rate should be enough to take the risk on ourselves instead of the pool operators, and out of the 4 options you provided, I would prefer OzCoin because of the low fee for DGM mining.

[ProfMac]

I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain

Check the "Ratio vs. BTC" column:

http://dustcoin.com/mining

Ratio will change by the time machine starts hashing, but still it is possible mining altcoins would return BTC faster than mining BTC itself. Time will tell.

I will mine bitcoin.

[theGECK]

I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain

Check the "Ratio vs. BTC" column:

http://dustcoin.com/mining

Ratio will change by the time machine starts hashing, but still it is possible mining altcoins would return BTC faster than mining BTC itself. Time will tell.

For me personally it's not about the return I can get right now, but about what I think has the longer-term chance. Bitcoin has the mind share of cryptocurrency and I think it's the one that will go for the long haul and eventually be worth more down the road. That's why my position is to prioritize BTC mining over alt-chains, but if we can do merged mining without sacrificing BTC returns it would provide an additional benefit in the short term.

[ProfMac]

I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain

Check the "Ratio vs. BTC" column:

http://dustcoin.com/mining

Ratio will change by the time machine starts hashing, but still it is possible mining altcoins would return BTC faster than mining BTC itself. Time will tell.

For me personally it's not about the return I can get right now, but about what I think has the longer-term chance. Bitcoin has the mind share of cryptocurrency and I think it's the one that will go for the long haul and eventually be worth more down the road. That's why my position is to prioritize BTC mining over alt-chains, but if we can do merged mining without sacrificing BTC returns it would provide an additional benefit in the short term.

Some questions that come to mind are these:

1.  How do I make the payout without controversy.
2.  How can 1 ASIC be mining on more than 1 coin?  Or, can I really double dip?

[Pistachio]

Is this still open?

Just to confirm, if I sent 0.85BTC to 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH that would be accepted as a bid for 1%? If I wanted to bid on several shares, I would need to submit multiple payments of say 0.85BTC to 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH ?

One final question, would you accept 1BTC Casascius coins for this auction?

[ProfMac]

I was peaking at this thread for a while trying to figure out if I should participate or not, and the fact the owner of machine is not willing to mine altcoins
just shocked me. For over a month now altcoins were returning up to 200% more bitcoins in same amount of time, but it somehow irrelevant here. Investors
are expected to spend bitcoins but they will have to wait few weeks or maybe few months longer to return the investment? I was under impression this
offer is about getting the investment back as soon as possible, before other miners push the difficulty up multiple times. Guy behind ASICMiner replied to
my question about their chips today, maybe you should check it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg1740976#msg1740976 and not only that
but it looks like BFL might start shipping at least some of their boxes by the end of April. This offer is not good if ideology or personal preferences will rule
over the profit. Sorry!

I have another 20% of the output of the machine available for future ventures.  If I decide that I can mine altcoins with that 20% and sell shares to you, I believe you would be unhappy if I decide after the fact to mine bitcoin.

It works both ways.  I have sold shares to mine bitcoin, bought with bitcoin, and to be repaid in bitcoin.  To quote Transporter, "The deal's the deal."

If I can get sufficient funds to order a new machine, it will not have any legacy promises whatsoever.  I need about 90 BTC more to match some resell offers I am reading.

[ProfMac]

Is this still open?

Just to confirm, if I sent 0.85BTC to 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH that would be accepted as a bid for 1%? If I wanted to bid on several shares, I would need to submit multiple payments of say 0.85BTC to 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH ?

One final question, would you accept 1BTC Casascius coins for this auction?

Yes, 0.85 BTC to 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH  would be a bid for 1%.
Yes, you need to submit a payment from a different address to make a different bid.

If you decide to raise your first bid to 1.00 BTC at a later time, you could submit 0.15 BTC from the same address to 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH.

I don't know enough about the Casascius coin to know.  I think the current bidders should have the opportunity to tell me "no" and I would like to read discussion, with selected links, so that I know more.  For example, do they have some value beyond their face value for some collector, somewhere, who might contact me soon?  Is the value of the coin available digitally without destroying the coin?  Would you have to send it to me as a physical object via UPS or FedEx?

------

I hand tallied the shares, and I am ready to return some unsuccessful bids.  I am willing to delay the return of anyone's bid if that is what they prefer, just post here or send a PM.

[theGECK]

I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain

Check the "Ratio vs. BTC" column:

http://dustcoin.com/mining

Ratio will change by the time machine starts hashing, but still it is possible mining altcoins would return BTC faster than mining BTC itself. Time will tell.

For me personally it's not about the return I can get right now, but about what I think has the longer-term chance. Bitcoin has the mind share of cryptocurrency and I think it's the one that will go for the long haul and eventually be worth more down the road. That's why my position is to prioritize BTC mining over alt-chains, but if we can do merged mining without sacrificing BTC returns it would provide an additional benefit in the short term.

Some questions that come to mind are these:

1.  How do I make the payout without controversy.
2.  How can 1 ASIC be mining on more than 1 coin?  Or, can I really double dip?

First, it's very possible to mine multiple crypto-currencies that use the same hash. Essentially, 30k foot overview, you test the same hash on both chains to see if it solves the problem for a particular chain.
#2 has two solutions:

1) Use a pool that uses merged mining. - simple, and should be done because many of the pools are merged mining at least one alt currency.
2) Setup merged mining on your own system. - I couldn't help you there, but if a pool operator can set it up then you can set it up for yourself on your own system.

[svenp]

Is this auction still open?  I don't see the 48 hr notice anywhere, but others have claimed it was closed.

[ProfMac]

Is this auction still open?  I don't see the 48 hr notice anywhere, but others have claimed it was closed.

This thread has two ventures.

1.  The 70% venture at a straight purchase.  It is closed.
2.  The 10% venture as a multi winner auction.  It is open.  The opening post has a link to the auction announcement and the offer.

[svenp]

That's what I thought, thanks.  Matthew N. Wright said your auction had closed in his Avalon thread so I was thinking I missed something!

[ProfMac]

That's what I thought, thanks.  Matthew N. Wright said your auction had closed in his Avalon thread so I was thinking I missed something!

I think I had said it in *this* thread, but I think I might have been mistaken. Perhaps I am confused because the Prof may be hosting two separate auctions. Could someone clarify?

The opening post says it at the top, and gives a link to the auction details.

[TheJuice]

48 hours yet?

[ProfMac]

That's what I thought, thanks.  Matthew N. Wright said your auction had closed in his Avalon thread so I was thinking I missed something!

I think I had said it in *this* thread, but I think I might have been mistaken. Perhaps I am confused because the Prof may be hosting two separate auctions. Could someone clarify?

The opening post says it at the top, and gives a link to the auction details.

Thank you! On another note, what do you think the likelihood of BFL shipping is at this point?

I ordered an Avalon; I did not order a BFL. 

[ProfMac]

48 hours yet?

The auction remains open.

[TheJuice]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Lucky for you ProfMac, I have testing this with your auction!

Real Time Bid Info: http://getpaidtoinfo.com/BCA/blockchainauctions.php?auction=17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

Features:
1) Only counts BIDs from 1 address.
2) Sums Bids from each address
3) Remember no coins are actually stored on the my address


Looking for suggestions!
Tips to convince me to keep working on this project: 1B8g2eUo4E5TDGuMZWF3irESUg87HerCyp

Thanks all!

TheJuice

[ProfMac]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Lucky for you ProfMac, I have testing this with your auction!

Real Time Bid Info: http://getpaidtoinfo.com/BCA/blockchainauctions.php?auction=17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

Features:
1) Only counts BIDs from 1 address.
2) Sums Bids from each address
3) Remember no coins are actually stored on the my address


Looking for suggestions!
Tips to convince me to keep working on this project: 1B8g2eUo4E5TDGuMZWF3irESUg87HerCyp

Thanks all!

TheJuice

Ah, the free market.
I'll look at it as soon as I can reach the web page :-(

[ProfMac]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Lucky for you ProfMac, I have testing this with your auction!

Real Time Bid Info: http://getpaidtoinfo.com/BCA/blockchainauctions.php?auction=17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

Features:
1) Only counts BIDs from 1 address.
2) Sums Bids from each address
3) Remember no coins are actually stored on the my address


Looking for suggestions!
Tips to convince me to keep working on this project: 1B8g2eUo4E5TDGuMZWF3irESUg87HerCyp

Thanks all!

TheJuice

Thanks.

I want to treat transaction 35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58 as legal.

In retrospect, I also want to treat transaction 1df1ccf5d0f1f59d813d4283648a68ae3fb3db7f04697b9b2b0141cc954ab38f as legal.

I would subtract the "change" paid to the same address as one of the inputs.
I total all the remaining  "inputs."  Figure out what to call them so that ganderson doesn't flip out.
I divide the payment to the auction address by this total.  That is a scaling number.
I multiply the amount of each input by this scaling number.
I make a database entry in this payment amount for each input address.

This can be done deliberately by a user who wants to own more than one share.

When I return a payment, I create a negative payment amount.


Here is a mySQL statement that I use to update the bid information.

Code:

SELECT COUNT(*) AS payments, `address`, SUM(`amount`) AS bid 
FROM `auction` 
GROUP BY `address`
ORDER BY `bid` DESC, `address`;

And here is a mySQL table, and data used to drive that query.

Code:

-- phpMyAdmin SQL Dump
-- version 3.4.10.1deb1
-- http://www.phpmyadmin.net
--
-- Host: localhost
-- Generation Time: Apr 11, 2013 at 11:35 PM
-- Server version: 5.5.29
-- PHP Version: 5.3.10-1ubuntu3.6

SET SQL_MODE="NO_AUTO_VALUE_ON_ZERO";
SET time_zone = "+00:00";


/*!40101 SET @OLD_CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT=@@CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT */;
/*!40101 SET @OLD_CHARACTER_SET_RESULTS=@@CHARACTER_SET_RESULTS */;
/*!40101 SET @OLD_COLLATION_CONNECTION=@@COLLATION_CONNECTION */;
/*!40101 SET NAMES utf8 */;

--
-- Database: `Currency`
--

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `auction`
--

CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS `auction` (
  `address` varchar(128) NOT NULL,
  `date` datetime NOT NULL,
  `amount` decimal(15,8) NOT NULL,
  `transaction` varchar(256) NOT NULL
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;

--
-- Dumping data for table `auction`
--

INSERT INTO `auction` (`address`, `date`, `amount`, `transaction`) VALUES
('1HWdsr5FjadLMFiaZZvS4YqXpR4aQwDTHX', '2013-03-30 21:36:55', 0.04965694, '87da9aba665bc953a822090c43a51569f4501692ccd13a60bc1fbbcdbba2c175'),
('1MaMD7C4zAYxZybmB87CgJKhojt97G7TAr', '2013-04-01 14:25:22', 0.05000000, '25d14e5cda75a7f4008ad2387215aa74b40941a99345f5deec673c1871e5bcf2'),
('13shEJVGamWDu1qkAjbjD8g62hacPFmjQc', '2013-04-01 14:25:55', 0.05000000, '52c506ec67fcfbe016d63cb9c41598b64134086595c300538baacbf87414c7b2'),
('18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon', '2013-04-01 15:50:54', 0.01000000, '611339552830b61d6a4d1de4c6552bf7c162d1c06047bfe4d0cab6525e242e99'),
('1QKKFsCXYv1Ya2qyCiQGC2MVfioKon9w3L', '2013-04-02 02:32:00', 0.02326481, 'e5ca352c1ccad367d361a325798cf0e4d951d3b1d258272b19f42a65680dac00'),
('1FrpnnbV98mMVDk7xfvRYNkMdiVkHeo4CL', '2013-04-02 16:21:43', 0.11000000, '496edce4c28cdb35e3be1537019d0a849bdd79e2bf029fe158e68d0b880764a2'),
('1AFA4ppBvYpdiDFidFUGsWo6nn2NTdAvzZ', '2013-04-03 02:56:42', 0.04000000, '70900d0cec1d4042b821f4b0220c7c10d9bb459dc26ab6acb23acb36c0dee68e'),
('1LaMr73WuPknQqcnYx5B49hUV3njXtGkzv', '2013-04-03 20:52:08', 0.75000000, 'f30285a40d89d80c3de0231936ec00b8f87af6465b6031c753a47d39c576b903'),
('1BatJJEzBD49AiqtPBGpErLigQGv6oDioK', '2013-04-03 20:53:08', 0.75000000, '1da36ca95582a042e637ad7c934f92506d3aef06703efbc258a9871a35e145ed'),
('1GZzn1wN2SN1XF6zo6CkLh77tQGqTYJS46', '2013-04-03 20:53:32', 0.75000000, '2753782e18eac7e5e3f0ea34aa1d69cdb637fede0c6f662c78a5b0527560a79a'),
('1AFuCJXLNZEF2ktFw1WWgvo7guUghtino8', '2013-04-04 05:24:19', 0.92000000, '76d55fc06c45330352cefadf4e66a9d1434341621581135f92953933a93468f0'),
('1HZrAsW7i1P5TVrVxWmwxZyiKqyMsw1rC5', '2013-04-04 11:28:14', 0.75000000, '049e35ff97c2f79635a74f54a5a7789b309ed61606e5b7b1026a46cf850b8b94'),
('1F2472ponJGqDyKNLgFKPnFdXfXT46Hx3Y', '2013-04-04 11:28:42', 0.75000000, 'a7c614c2bdbe3799e206368f17e4eebefc1d1d9cb8d63967659675c0c753e87e'),
('1CpXQhWptbYu4AAsmiEcos9f7rPgDHdALs', '2013-04-04 14:38:11', 0.80000000, '36ee9fe3de151fb50946aed1869faac31766a497a3fc4c810b878e9836883113'),
('1nAmPPmyDkvd5FJscJhDZ4te9tFvaD4BS', '2013-04-04 14:38:27', 0.80000000, '4e5621fe9bbd6537a6c6c2cd7bc6e699933c61dc22c14f1a03670e25c92fa1e0'),
('16NUNbUCieHLZGVoGdCP7Uzp5pxDNp35UT', '2013-04-04 14:38:42', 0.80000000, '74387b5a84fa3884c6b1d5df6ad78f9bd7158ab114f04353b6fa4016bb264075'),
('1F79KrkTVrGSoHX8j52axHUZi66utRnmzZ', '2013-04-04 14:38:56', 0.80000000, '7486d443677e6509bce91bf1426a097c216d519bfa1a277bb6a079b3c50c56f5'),
('14pDJaE7qWXgLAS4RbpVyq4ebsUPXEBXNa', '2013-04-04 14:39:12', 0.80000000, '0d271bef60d5cfc5f80c39448f17bb766614979262974ddd1d82de5a326a432a'),
('18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon', '2013-04-02 17:42:38', 0.10000000, '66a32cfde8d2dbf757be39bcf753b6cc7fd1e038832cdb7c16ef8d7146f621ff'),
('1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg', '2013-04-05 02:17:21', 1.05950000, 'b874c4fb2b3d8168e369f0b00f69bdea18926650712430d3f372c79872eb23c9'),
('18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon', '2013-04-05 05:34:07', 0.82000000, '1a3f53416eefc3679d1ca6098204665e291e8a8b7a70dfb1cd61074dbc9193b3'),
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-05 21:41:40', 0.83000000, 'd7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324'),
('1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1', '2013-04-08 09:32:47', 0.81000000, '593b76274db7197b63f119fe90befd0113fb6917d032621f2b6aa95d51f0633a'),
('1EkWkthDoxCXTyxRYVjtnmq13e8SbQNbs2', '2013-04-09 16:05:17', 0.85000000, '5be18b06459c1cd5e949f59780f3ddf7d6854d8a78ecb083974cb188ecb0fb94'),
('1PnAWB2opLVyGFUmaCeyjdFZ3w88PgPbmb', '2013-04-09 16:05:55', 0.85000000, '6df360bb237b7b11aff7eeb963650fe94b42d351c469499bd81b48cbef778307'),
('18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt', '2013-04-09 18:30:48', 0.02000000, '7119478c78db64f91d784d2de3ddd13ed7947f7e442968c77e3dc31f475b2e4c'),
('1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P', '2013-04-09 19:10:47', 0.82000000, 'd8d700f36d3fe0e878ffdcc92337a8f439b800a47f40ea7fd04c2bfde54060e0'),
('18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt', '2013-04-09 14:21:03', 0.84000000, '3f827b10a41b3363f566326f62b378120b9daee3338bdca89f1c2d19f2205be5'),
('1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1', '2013-04-09 19:37:40', 0.01120000, '846d661ca343dace8f06cfd38f694b91cd23e478a88d256bf8a469d1502b11c6'),
('1PnAWB2opLVyGFUmaCeyjdFZ3w88PgPbmb', '2013-04-10 05:53:41', 0.10000000, '717292755607ec260f9db04f4fbb01f850e57af27a1eb85dcd449ed4eb8c819f'),
('1EkWkthDoxCXTyxRYVjtnmq13e8SbQNbs2', '2013-04-10 05:52:44', 0.15000000, '506405194aace2d759d1e85923e7d72233e0176d659bd007c4679736afa1cd1e'),
('14pDJaE7qWXgLAS4RbpVyq4ebsUPXEBXNa', '2013-04-09 15:30:25', -0.80000000, 'ed23878117fa6327e27c4837a2ac49734acbe9ca3894f38b74af608c9f3a1f71'),
('1F2472ponJGqDyKNLgFKPnFdXfXT46Hx3Y', '2013-04-08 15:29:29', -0.75000000, 'a0e316deda94e5449d3b4200640a852dc02b545b6c56266095c6f1210f08f90a'),
('1BatJJEzBD49AiqtPBGpErLigQGv6oDioK ', '2013-04-08 15:29:29', -0.75000000, 'a0e316deda94e5449d3b4200640a852dc02b545b6c56266095c6f1210f08f90a'),
('1Q8nr8o5s9ZQfVy94EspjdpjteqqQmD1K', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.01507825, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1QKKFsCXYv1Ya2qyCiQGC2MVfioKon9w3L', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.02326481, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1AFA4ppBvYpdiDFidFUGsWo6nn2NTdAvzZ', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.04000000, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1HWdsr5FjadLMFiaZZvS4YqXpR4aQwDTHX ', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.04965694, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1MaMD7C4zAYxZybmB87CgJKhojt97G7TAr ', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.05000000, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('13shEJVGamWDu1qkAjbjD8g62hacPFmjQc', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.05000000, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1FrpnnbV98mMVDk7xfvRYNkMdiVkHeo4CL ', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.11000000, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1LaMr73WuPknQqcnYx5B49hUV3njXtGkzv ', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.75000000, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1GZzn1wN2SN1XF6zo6CkLh77tQGqTYJS46', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.75000000, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1BatJJEzBD49AiqtPBGpErLigQGv6oDioK ', '2013-04-05 09:39:16', -0.75000000, '41a932e51e195b26979b1bf68c6167442095828d76b9bbb7f8d8312d183d74a7'),
('1BtJWrqHB5jKBE1Szb99mRQsqkwXGEF57s', '2013-04-03 20:22:42', -0.10000000, '9714762c7f65d286f97687992d342ea5e4a0de9aff5755e36d47c0292f78f397'),
('1BtJWrqHB5jKBE1Szb99mRQsqkwXGEF57s', '2013-04-03 11:35:16', -0.40000000, '2e6b037cf216c3509c04f27ab45e12563eb9d53969e8efc8177c2528f7c7ebea'),
('1HZrAsW7i1P5TVrVxWmwxZyiKqyMsw1rC5', '2013-04-10 09:43:39', -0.75000000, 'fbb7442348288bff62172d36181830d4f46cdb4f93a0d0120e1d6a3f3766eb6a'),
('1F79KrkTVrGSoHX8j52axHUZi66utRnmzZ', '2013-04-10 09:43:39', -0.80000000, 'fbb7442348288bff62172d36181830d4f46cdb4f93a0d0120e1d6a3f3766eb6a'),
('1nAmPPmyDkvd5FJscJhDZ4te9tFvaD4BS ', '2013-04-10 09:43:39', -0.80000000, 'fbb7442348288bff62172d36181830d4f46cdb4f93a0d0120e1d6a3f3766eb6a'),
('16NUNbUCieHLZGVoGdCP7Uzp5pxDNp35UT', '2013-04-10 09:43:39', -0.80000000, 'fbb7442348288bff62172d36181830d4f46cdb4f93a0d0120e1d6a3f3766eb6a'),
('1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P', '2013-04-10 10:33:00', 0.04100000, 'ca1ceebd34ec23208a7aa398a0b2401becabcfadfe9cf4e30f237201794baeca'),
('1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4', '2013-04-10 10:24:57', 0.89110000, '17f91f624c1f377ca23d48aa4f679e47ee94bbcdcd9f8ea8740b3f476ce3f2d0'),
('18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt ', '2013-04-10 15:03:51', 0.07100000, '73049d77693de95413e758c396bbded4e507e7bb0418061abd9724b1577ffd46'),
('1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1', '2013-04-10 15:29:26', 0.07000000, '04352365922fd24118281847d1fda2881c6897602399fbffcaa91b8624e91b15'),
('1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', 0.00072085, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', 0.00864448, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.00072073, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8', '2013-04-11 02:36:03', 1.00000000, '9ac095cc1059307f5fe8ac2dacd84119cf8ec3d25d9e948e5668a7512a1d04e3'),
('1NFtyTwefVtHXbxCPVZBG9H6SrujTxk4G6', '2013-04-11 02:36:27', 1.00000000, '29745e76ccb9adabb8e37770ae48eb5b027ee961578985f8359e81980b743de6'),
('18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt', '2013-04-11 02:38:49', 0.06588120, '24ff1755fad50c12fde17ee65fdaa339c411ab0e9722c601b0bdf539ed758cb1'),
('1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P', '2013-04-11 16:44:06', 0.10900000, '472f4a16d90e6e3e04b3f41ca1453adafea0bb3a60b5c8fa08ca6a05eecc3a96'),
('1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4', '2013-04-11 16:48:17', 0.10890001, '85db2bb735a4ac39071fc50d98271f78bd00f811d1402152a90376d13637b046'),
('1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1', '2013-04-11 16:53:41', 0.20880000, '5436eb44254f3cb24ae68a8e2de7bdf1f393436b723c703ad69f75910ef6c184'),
('1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.00072085, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1CpXQhWptbYu4AAsmiEcos9f7rPgDHdALs', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.80000000, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.83864448, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1AFuCJXLNZEF2ktFw1WWgvo7guUghtino8', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.92000000, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', 0.00072073, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('1NFtyTwefVtHXbxCPVZBG9H6SrujTxk4G6', '2013-04-11 20:45:29', 0.15000000, '0f19a0e0512b44cef7fde0ce8b149a780e6c05df8676b1d3c389fd2c81948b9f'),
('18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt', '2013-04-11 20:43:05', 0.15010000, '44df370423e859c5218b1db58a5c5967d92b298b35821674f6c7fdd21b85e316'),
('1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg', '2013-04-11 20:41:40', 0.11000000, '325e333d497f8bb21f82c14a63890aaf5f9d02422ec88b79e128710193c76e8b'),
('1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8', '2013-04-11 20:44:27', 0.16000000, '5611bf1b988d1082354e1cb2218aeb1f15dd95cca0f97829f65f650f14512d87');

/*!40101 SET CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT=@OLD_CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT */;
/*!40101 SET CHARACTER_SET_RESULTS=@OLD_CHARACTER_SET_RESULTS */;
/*!40101 SET COLLATION_CONNECTION=@OLD_COLLATION_CONNECTION */;

[sealkid]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Thanks TheJuice, until now I have been watching the blockchain and creating my own list by hand, this is great!

I want to treat transaction 35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58 as legal.

This transaction was sent from my Bitcoin-QT client. I wrongly assumed that since the first bid I made (transaction d7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324) came from one address, that future 'top-ups' to my bid would also come from one address. I am sending bids from now on solely by using separate blockchain.info addresses.

At time of writing, I have only been partially refunded for these two separate transactions for the unsuccessful bid. My total bid comes to 0.83 + 0.13 = 0.96 BTC. I have received back  0.83864448 to 1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL + 0.00072085 to 1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR + 0.00072073 to 1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX = 0.84008606. So I figure there is 0.11991394 missing?

Sorry for the confusion, I will be keeping clear of Bitcoin-QT for all current and future auctions.

[ProfMac]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Lucky for you ProfMac, I have testing this with your auction!

Real Time Bid Info: http://getpaidtoinfo.com/BCA/blockchainauctions.php?auction=17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

Features:
1) Only counts BIDs from 1 address.
2) Sums Bids from each address
3) Remember no coins are actually stored on the my address


Looking for suggestions!
Tips to convince me to keep working on this project: 1B8g2eUo4E5TDGuMZWF3irESUg87HerCyp

Thanks all!

TheJuice

I am lucky, and I thought I'd ask you for another favor ...


Here is some more tedious mySQL that looks at sealKid's transactions.  It explicitly adds the address 'miner' so that the sum of all the amounts with that transaction number are '0'
It also shows both the origins and the output amounts.

I would like a checkbox on your webpage that will allow me to download the mySQL for all the transactions that use the specified auction address.

Code:

-- phpMyAdmin SQL Dump
-- version 3.4.10.1deb1
-- http://www.phpmyadmin.net
--
-- Host: localhost
-- Generation Time: Apr 12, 2013 at 08:57 AM
-- Server version: 5.5.29
-- PHP Version: 5.3.10-1ubuntu3.6

SET SQL_MODE="NO_AUTO_VALUE_ON_ZERO";
SET time_zone = "+00:00";


/*!40101 SET @OLD_CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT=@@CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT */;
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--
-- Database: `Currency`
--

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `auction-reconcile`
--

CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS `auction-reconcile` (
  `address` varchar(128) NOT NULL,
  `date` datetime NOT NULL,
  `amount` decimal(15,8) NOT NULL,
  `transaction` varchar(256) NOT NULL
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;

--
-- Dumping data for table `auction-reconcile`
--

INSERT INTO `auction-reconcile` (`address`, `date`, `amount`, `transaction`) VALUES
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-05 21:41:40', 0.35911449, 'd7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324'),
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-05 21:41:40', 0.23240448, 'd7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324'),
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-05 21:41:40', 0.24852019, 'd7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324'),
('1AQMC4sXZuk9qKSA7yW3CFoM2YQEZvycU7', '2013-04-05 21:41:40', -0.01003916, 'd7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324'),
('17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH', '2013-04-05 21:41:40', -0.83000000, 'd7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324'),
('miner', '2013-04-05 21:41:40', 0.00000000, 'd7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324'),
('1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', 0.01001200, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', 0.12006376, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', 0.01001031, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('15fDquQeCgBTBCf7AD8hYhh2jT9D2ZsBZL', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', -0.01008607, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('miner', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', 0.00000000, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH', '2013-04-10 15:45:08', -0.13000000, '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'),
('1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.00072073, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.00072085, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1CpXQhWptbYu4AAsmiEcos9f7rPgDHdALs', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.80000000, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.83864448, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('1AFuCJXLNZEF2ktFw1WWgvo7guUghtino8', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.92000000, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.64891409, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae'),
('miner', '2013-04-11 19:04:06', -0.00050000, '08f680132fd6f2a47e0421e78ab24005a7a935305937336497a3cd93f58b36ae');

/*!40101 SET CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT=@OLD_CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT */;
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/*!40101 SET COLLATION_CONNECTION=@OLD_COLLATION_CONNECTION */;

[ProfMac]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Thanks TheJuice, until now I have been watching the blockchain and creating my own list by hand, this is great!

Sorry for the confusion, I will be keeping clear of Bitcoin-QT for all current and future auctions.

I'm looking at these two transactions in my database, and I'm having a "what was I smoking" moment.
I'm having coffee and digging through details at the moment.

[ProfMac]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Thanks TheJuice, until now I have been watching the blockchain and creating my own list by hand, this is great!

Sorry for the confusion, I will be keeping clear of Bitcoin-QT for all current and future auctions.

I'm looking at these two transactions in my database, and I'm having a "what was I smoking" moment.
I'm having coffee and digging through details at the moment.

I have to go run some errands, and I thought I would post what I have at the moment.  I think that there are two transactions where you made a bid.
I applied the "inputs" proportionally to the amount paid to the auction address / the total paid.

Here is a summary of the addresses and the total payments as I applied them.
I then took each separate address as a separate bid.  The smaller ones will drop off the bottom of the auction and be refunded.  They should be refunded the proportional amount.
I will reconcile these totals and the actual refund later today.


Please look this over carefully, and let me know if there is a typo or if it is confusing.  We should be in agreement at this step.

Code:

1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL	2013-04-05 21:41:40	0.35911449	d7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a...	0.84003916	0.83000000	0.35482277600010932824
1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL	2013-04-05 21:41:40	0.23240448	d7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a...	0.84003916	0.83000000	0.22962705500538808215
1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL	2013-04-05 21:41:40	0.24852019	d7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a...	0.84003916	0.83000000	0.24555016899450258962

1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR	2013-04-10 15:45:08	0.01001200	35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2...	0.14008607	0.13000000	0.00929114507959285317
1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL	2013-04-10 15:45:08	0.12006376	35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2...	0.14008607	0.13000000	0.11141927816234690573
1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX	2013-04-10 15:45:08	0.01001031	35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2...	0.14008607	0.13000000	0.00928957675806024111

Here is some preliminary SQL that pulls these sums for a single transaction.  I hope to have SQL that will create a new, augmented table Real Soon Now.

Code:

SELECT * , `amount` * `b`.`total-placed` / `t`.`total-trans` AS `allocate-bid`
FROM
`auction-reconcile`,
(SELECT SUM(`amount`) AS 'total-trans'
FROM `auction-reconcile`
WHERE `transaction` = '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'
AND 0 < `amount`
AND `address` <> '17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH') AS t,

(SELECT -SUM(`amount`) AS 'total-placed'
FROM `auction-reconcile`
WHERE `transaction` = '35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58'
AND `amount` < 0
AND `address` = '17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH') AS b

WHERE 0 < `amount`
AND `transaction` IN (
'35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58' )

[TheJuice]

Right now my script is very basic. I pull everything from blockchain.info - and i dont even store it in mysql yet, but plan to do that soon. ill work on the refund data today. i like the download all option.

thx guys

[TheJuice]

Thanks for the donation! Motivated me to update the code. I'll release a new version soon

[ProfMac]

Announcing TheJuice BlockChain Auction Manager!

Thanks TheJuice, until now I have been watching the blockchain and creating my own list by hand, this is great!

I want to treat transaction 35fbf696ed7c71d5d97a27f3450be2962f8a1edbab837858e2d5ddb25af6bb58 as legal.

This transaction was sent from my Bitcoin-QT client. I wrongly assumed that since the first bid I made (transaction d7c5ebf532a8c5fb17dbd334e1882c40d1cc0a3166302e230a2e8e60349f6324) came from one address, that future 'top-ups' to my bid would also come from one address. I am sending bids from now on solely by using separate blockchain.info addresses.

At time of writing, I have only been partially refunded for these two separate transactions for the unsuccessful bid. My total bid comes to 0.83 + 0.13 = 0.96 BTC. I have received back  0.83864448 to 1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL + 0.00072085 to 1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR + 0.00072073 to 1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX = 0.84008606. So I figure there is 0.11991394 missing?

Sorry for the confusion, I will be keeping clear of Bitcoin-QT for all current and future auctions.

I have these figures:

Code:

1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX	0.00928958	-0.00072073	0.00856885
1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR	0.00929115	-0.00072085	0.00857030
1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL	0.94141928	-0.83864448	0.10277480
sum	0.96000001	-0.84008606	0.11991395

And for TheJuice, I have this mySQL snippet.

Code:

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CREATE TABLE payout3
AS
SELECT
	paid.`address`, `bid`, `amount`, `bid` + `amount` AS 'net'
FROM
`auction-reconcile`,
(
	SELECT `address`, SUM(`allocate-bid`) AS 'bid'
	FROM
	(
		SELECT `auction-reconcile`.* , `b`.`total-placed`, `t`.`total-trans`,
			`amount` * `b`.`total-placed` / `t`.`total-trans` AS `allocate-bid`
		FROM
		`auction-reconcile`,
		(
			SELECT SUM(`amount`) AS 'total-trans', `transaction` AS t1
			FROM `auction-reconcile`
			WHERE 0 < `amount`
			AND `address` <> '17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH'
			GROUP BY `transaction`
		) AS t,

		(
			SELECT -SUM(`amount`) AS 'total-placed', `transaction` AS t2
			FROM `auction-reconcile`
			WHERE  `amount` < 0
			AND `address` = '17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH'
			GROUP BY `transaction`
		) AS b

		WHERE 0 < `amount`
		AND t1 = t2
		AND `transaction` = t1
	) AS t3
	GROUP BY `address`
	ORDER BY `bid` DESC
) AS paid

WHERE
 `auction-reconcile`.`address` = `paid`.`address`
 AND `amount` < 0
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[sealkid]

I have these figures:

Code:

1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX	0.00928958	-0.00072073	0.00856885
1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR	0.00929115	-0.00072085	0.00857030
1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL	0.94141928	-0.83864448	0.10277480
sum	0.96000001	-0.84008606	0.11991395

Yes, that all adds up at my end, and received. Thank you!

[ProfMac]

Right now my script is very basic. I pull everything from blockchain.info - and i dont even store it in mysql yet, but plan to do that soon. ill work on the refund data today. i like the download all option.

thx guys

I have tried the bitcoind interface to blockchain.info.  In a linux environment:

bitcoind -rpcconnect=blockchain.info -rpcport=443 -rpcssl getblockcount

and I receive

error:  couldn't parse reply from server

[Pistachio]

Real Time Bid Info: http://getpaidtoinfo.com/BCA/blockchainauctions.php?auction=17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

Features:
1) Only counts BIDs from 1 address.
2) Sums Bids from each address
3) Remember no coins are actually stored on the my address


Looking for suggestions!
Tips to convince me to keep working on this project: 1B8g2eUo4E5TDGuMZWF3irESUg87HerCyp

Thanks all!

TheJuice

I have been following this but it does not seem to show the correct bid amount for 1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg. It is missing the 1.0595BTC payment on 2013-04-05 02:17:21. Anyone else find inconsistencies like this?

[ProfMac]

Real Time Bid Info: http://getpaidtoinfo.com/BCA/blockchainauctions.php?auction=17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

Features:
1) Only counts BIDs from 1 address.
2) Sums Bids from each address
3) Remember no coins are actually stored on the my address


Looking for suggestions!
Tips to convince me to keep working on this project: 1B8g2eUo4E5TDGuMZWF3irESUg87HerCyp

Thanks all!

TheJuice

I have been following this but it does not seem to show the correct bid amount for 1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg. It is missing the 1.0595BTC payment on 2013-04-05 02:17:21. Anyone else find inconsistencies like this?

I am doing the courtesy summary by hand, and mistakes are very likely.  However, the block-chain is visible to everybody, it is the authority, and I cannot introduce errors into it.

I gave a BTC 2 donation to TheJuice to encourage additional work on the other summary software.  Please feel free to donate tips to her as well.

Both TheJuice and I developed software along the lines of the original auction rules, but user behavior did not follow those rules closely.

In addition, I am also authoring some PHP + MySQL that mines this auction and will automate this process.  My software does many of the required steps now, although it is never a good idea to say "the software is pretty close to completion."  When it is ready, the summary will be correct and timely.  The snippets of SQL and PHP that I have posted are part of the software development.

I have found small differences in the way bitcoin-qt and blockchain.info interpret some of the RPC calls.  I am finding it easier to work with bitcoin-qt, but I have not found a good path to let PHP on my machine read your wallet without being a bad security design.

I suppose I could run an "auction" copy of bitcoin, and pull public keys only for all the bidders into it.  Then my PHP would read a wallet on my machine without a security risk.  Somehow I hate the idea of running an extra wallet, but that is irrational.  One concern is that importing each new key and doing a sweep takes *minutes.*  I don't know if the wallet is responsive to RPC during that sweep or not.

One thing I may do is to finish the PHP+mySQL in my bitcoin environment and publish the software.  That would let anyone with their own bitcoin+PHP+mySQL environment pull the numbers without any security risk.  When that is working and there is a healthy open source activity around it, then we could move it to blockchain.  There are also different security issues with blockchain but I have not thought through them.

I am on a business trip this week and will not produce much in the way of updates.    

[TheJuice]

Real Time Bid Info: http://getpaidtoinfo.com/BCA/blockchainauctions.php?auction=17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

Features:
1) Only counts BIDs from 1 address.
2) Sums Bids from each address
3) Remember no coins are actually stored on the my address


Looking for suggestions!
Tips to convince me to keep working on this project: 1B8g2eUo4E5TDGuMZWF3irESUg87HerCyp

Thanks all!

TheJuice

I have been following this but it does not seem to show the correct bid amount for 1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg. It is missing the 1.0595BTC payment on 2013-04-05 02:17:21. Anyone else find inconsistencies like this?

I am doing the courtesy summary by hand, and mistakes are very likely.  However, the block-chain is visible to everybody, it is the authority, and I cannot introduce errors into it.

I gave a BTC 2 donation to TheJuice to encourage additional work on the other summary software.  Please feel free to donate tips to her as well.

Both TheJuice and I developed software along the lines of the original auction rules, but user behavior did not follow those rules closely.

In addition, I am also authoring some PHP + MySQL that mines this auction and will automate this process.  My software does many of the required steps now, although it is never a good idea to say "the software is pretty close to completion."  When it is ready, the summary will be correct and timely.  The snippets of SQL and PHP that I have posted are part of the software development.

I have found small differences in the way bitcoin-qt and blockchain.info interpret some of the RPC calls.  I am finding it easier to work with bitcoin-qt, but I have not found a good path to let PHP on my machine read your wallet without being a bad security design.

I suppose I could run an "auction" copy of bitcoin, and pull public keys only for all the bidders into it.  Then my PHP would read a wallet on my machine without a security risk.  Somehow I hate the idea of running an extra wallet, but that is irrational.  One concern is that importing each new key and doing a sweep takes *minutes.*  I don't know if the wallet is responsive to RPC during that sweep or not.

One thing I may do is to finish the PHP+mySQL in my bitcoin environment and publish the software.  That would let anyone with their own bitcoin+PHP+mySQL environment pull the numbers without any security risk.  When that is working and there is a healthy open source activity around it, then we could move it to blockchain.  There are also different security issues with blockchain but I have not thought through them.

I am on a business trip this week and will not produce much in the way of updates.    

Thanks Prof. Re: missing bids - I have identified the issue - I will fix it soon. I am using my own parsing method and if blockchain.info goes over a page it was missing the oldest sends. I will start displaying 'rejected' bids. Sorry for the lack of updates - I am from Boston and was hit hard by the recent events.

Your donation has enabled me to purchase a domain: http://blockchainauctions.com/

Just paste in the receiving address to the auction. 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH

TheJuice

[TheJuice]

New Version Released!

Code:

TheJuice's BlockChain Auction Manager Change Log

=====Alpha 0.4======
Now displays unlimited number of BIDS - previous versions only allowed for 50
Dedicated domain name

=====Alpha 0.2======
Summing of BIDs per unique address
BIDs from multiple addresses discarded

=====Alpha 0.1======
Initial Release, proof of concept.

[Pistachio]

Works great! thanks for putting this together.

New Version Released!

Code:

TheJuice's BlockChain Auction Manager Change Log

=====Alpha 0.4======
Now displays unlimited number of BIDS - previous versions only allowed for 50
Dedicated domain name

=====Alpha 0.2======
Summing of BIDs per unique address
BIDs from multiple addresses discarded

=====Alpha 0.1======
Initial Release, proof of concept.

[Pistachio]

Where did the 4btc go? Is the auction over?

https://blockchain.info/tx/eb69457cfebb39f974620db3d93c26cd65bcbb7cc40ce13bc0213828907640dc

[ProfMac]

Where did the 4btc go? Is the auction over?

https://blockchain.info/tx/eb69457cfebb39f974620db3d93c26cd65bcbb7cc40ce13bc0213828907640dc

The auction is not over.
I moved those 4 BTC to another account. 

[ProfMac]

This is a red flag for me. My total bids are more than what is now left in the auction account.

My addresses:

2   14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.20081 BTC
3   1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1.2001 BTC
5   1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8   1.2 BTC
6   12peTunkkUp88aRaUgndRBzPNSrEw3PDu7   1.17 BTC
7   1NFtyTwefVtHXbxCPVZBG9H6SrujTxk4G6   1.17 BTC
8   1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg   1.1695 BTC
9   18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt   1.1669812 BTC
10   1G17oxGNchntdDFQ1kCVHrRHxFHaDkhJ1S   1.165 BTC
11   1H8sdeiWCCkEQdHozeATnTu6tgDbYFBPQF   1.165 BTC

Please refund all of these bids. This no longer seems like a transparent auction. 

I don't follow your reasoning on this. 

The block-chain is visible to the world.  I think that makes it transparent.
The delivery discussion of the Avalon is in this forum, you know as much as I do about that, so it is also transparent.
The Avalon has been purchased and paid for.

To review what the auction is about, I am selling a portion of any future risk & earnings of my Batch #2 Avalon for certainty & use of coin now. 
By making a bid, you are declaring your calculation of the risk/reward for that deal.

Even if I brought the balance of the address to BTC 0.0, I don't see how this is unexpected or improper. 

Please think about this.

[Rampion]

ProfMac is right, Pistachio. You bought from him a % of his machine, and he is entitled to do whatever he wants with his money.

Nevertheless, I still think using the blockchain to bid in an auction is too confusing - but that's not the point now.

[ProfMac]

The block chain bidding is ideal. It makes the bids binding. In my auction for CH shares, I had a few bids that were not honored. Love the innovation profmac.

Too bad my auction took too long, I was gathering those coins to invest with you prof.

2 questions:

1) End date for the auction - there has to be one for me to bid.
2) Will there be refunds to original address for non-winning bids?

Thx TheJucie

The innovator is never properly rewarded.  He is forgotten under the accolades of those who make money from his innovations.
The block-chain is everything.
I am willing to pre-announce an end to the auction.  Will 24 or 48 hours of advance notice be enough?  
All non-winning auction bids will be refunded to the original payment address.

I would prefer the date be tied to something concrete, such as the arrival of the unit, and for 48 hours notice to happen. Personal preference, I'll be happy with anything that would make it certain.

I have had a call to return some bids.  I have chosen to view this as something concrete.

I have puzzled on how to best handle this, without adding or changing rules.  I have decided to announce that a portion of the auction will end.  Conveniently, my birthday is Friday, May 10, and I have chosen a block with a pleasing number that may fall on that day as the closing block for the auction.

I should be clear on how a portion of an auction ends.  The highest 3 winning bids will become permanent winners, and that portion of the auction is closed.

To be considered, your bid must be included in or before block 235,532.  If you find that time is short, you may pray a higher mining fee for any last minute transactions.

I apologize that I am ending the auction before I finished the software to summarize the bid status.  

Just in case Pistachio has winning bids after block 235,532, well, help Pistachio be a loser.

[Pistachio]

ProfMac is right, Pistachio. You bought from him a % of his machine, and he is entitled to do whatever he wants with his money.

Nevertheless, I still think using the blockchain to bid in an auction is too confusing - but that's not the point now.

Since when did bidding on something become the same as buying it. If I buy it, then yes you can do whatever you want. If I bid, I expect that to be held separately until the auction is over.

[ProfMac]

My perspective is that the BTC is not your until the auction is over. If someone can out bid me at any time then how is it that you can do wahtever you want with the bid money? This smells of a scam. What about the bids lower than the first ten? How long will they be held hostage? I have not received a refund for that bid.

If this is legit then refund my bids. Otherwise, I assume it is a scam.

I apologize if you had wanted the funds for the 11th place bid returned to you.  I actually have the option of increasing the number of winners, and you have made many bids to win in this auction for many shares, so it was not immediately clear to me that you wanted the 11th bid to be considered as non-winning and the funds returned.

Now that you have called for them, I have initiated the return of the 11th bid.

I don't agree with your perspective.  I believe the winning bids are mine to dispense.  I think this is true in any auction, but it is particularly true in this auction where I did procure and pay for an Avalon purchase order where many others tried and failed.

As part of the back story on this, I walked in -20°F winds of 50 MPH in blowing and drifting snow on a day the banks were closed, and the Batch #1 Avalons were not delivered and many were calling Avalon itself a scam.  I risked frostbite to take my gloves off and operate the ATM machine, and I trusted yufi to deliver.  I have spent time and funds to purchase a TP-Link 703n router, and I have flashed it with the OpenWRT firmware from Avalon and explored it.  I have even made that router available over the net to Luke-jr so that he could test some software without putting someone else's Avalon out of production.

I have announced the closing of 3 slots in the auction in an attempt to generate additional bids from TheJuice and others.  This should make you no longer a winning bidder, and thereby accommodate your desire to cash out without any need for exotic actions.  I invite you to think through how this might work if there were zero funds at the address today.

Closing the auction frustrates some of my plans, but I recognize that people need to cash out of ventures for any number of reasons.

[svenp]

I agree.  Withdrawal of funds from an incomplete auction is a bit scammy.  I don't believe profmac is a scammer but it is 'bad form'.

[TheJuice]

I agree.  Withdrawal of funds from an incomplete auction is a bit scammy.  I don't believe profmac is a scammer but it is 'bad form'.

Is it? The sum of the top 10 bids is clearly > 4 BTCs. I find it reasonable that he could withdraw BTCs from the top 10 bids. If he withdrew all 27 BTCs when the top 10 were only 13 BTCs then yes, this is scammy.

Ideally in the future, one could use an escrow as the receiving address in the blockchain auctions. This will even the playing field. There is just way to many fake bids by new accounts here.

I added an FAQ onto the BlockChainAuctions.com site.

[Pistachio]

Is it? The sum of the top 10 bids is clearly > 4 BTCs. I find it reasonable that he could withdraw BTCs from the top 10 bids. If he withdrew all 27 BTCs when the top 10 were only 13 BTCs then yes, this is scammy.

First, I want to say thank you to Profmac for issuing a refund for the non-winning bid and I apologize for being overly critical of how this auction is being run. It seems I may have become a little too paranoid. I now see this as a disagreement on how auctions should be run, rather than evidence of some kind of scam. I still disagree with transferring funds before the auction is over, but I no longer see this as a mark of a scam. I retract my request to refund my other bids and hope others will not be dissuaded from bidding because of my comments.

At the time I saw the 4btc transfer, this auction had been going on for a month with no end in sight and the discussion on this thread had gone down to a trickle. I was not concerned with the amount of the transfer, but the fact that the amount left was less than the sum total of my bids. If all of my bids were out bid and Profmac did not want to extend the number of winners, then how would I know he still had enough btc to refund my bids. For example, if you go to a bookie to place a bet and you watched the bookie hand off a sizable chunk of the money you just gave him to someone else. Then you might get worried that the bookie may not be able to cover your bet. Although in this case, my concern is not if I win the auction but getting a refund if I loose.

I hope this clears the air some.

[ProfMac]

Is it? The sum of the top 10 bids is clearly > 4 BTCs. I find it reasonable that he could withdraw BTCs from the top 10 bids. If he withdrew all 27 BTCs when the top 10 were only 13 BTCs then yes, this is scammy.

First, I want to say thank you to Profmac for issuing a refund for the non-winning bid and I apologize for being overly critical of how this auction is being run. It seems I may have become a little too paranoid. I now see this as a disagreement on how auctions should be run, rather than evidence of some kind of scam. I still disagree with transferring funds before the auction is over, but I no longer see this as a mark of a scam. I retract my request to refund my other bids and hope others will not be dissuaded from bidding because of my comments.

At the time I saw the 4btc transfer, this auction had been going on for a month with no end in sight and the discussion on this thread had gone down to a trickle. I was not concerned with the amount of the transfer, but the fact that the amount left was less than the sum total of my bids. If all of my bids were out bid and Profmac did not want to extend the number of winners, then how would I know he still had enough btc to refund my bids. For example, if you go to a bookie to place a bet and you watched the bookie hand off a sizable chunk of the money you just gave him to someone else. Then you might get worried that the bookie may not be able to cover your bet. Although in this case, my concern is not if I win the auction but getting a refund if I loose.

I hope this clears the air some.

Thank you. 

I'm really a nerd, and doing things that work with people is all a deep mystery to me.  So when I ask all these questions, they are genuine.

[ProfMac]

I agree.  Withdrawal of funds from an incomplete auction is a bit scammy.  I don't believe profmac is a scammer but it is 'bad form'.

During an auction, I strive to keep the rules stable.  Before the next auction, I try to revise the rules.  

I hope to have a pretty good set of rules developed, and to cause some software to be developed that implements these rules.

You guys have been helpful in making me think carefully.  Thank you.

The set of rules for this auction does not translate very well to the auction of 10,000 ASIC chips from Avalon's latest sale.  It is clear that there will need to be several sets of rules, for different auction environments.

I have posted my current thinking of the rules on Google Documents.  Please feel free to read them, and to post comments and questions.

I posted this discussion in it's own thread also.

[sealkid]

I have decided to announce that a portion of the auction will end.  Conveniently, my birthday is Friday, May 10, and I have chosen a block with a pleasing number that may fall on that day as the closing block for the auction.

I should be clear on how a portion of an auction ends.  The highest 3 winning bids will become permanent winners, and that portion of the auction is closed.

To be considered, your bid must be included in or before block 235,532.  If you find that time is short, you may pray a higher mining fee for any last minute transactions.

Is this still valid? And if so, are the top three bids up to block 235,532 as follows?:

1   14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.23359794 BTC
2   1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1.2141 BTC
3   1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1.211 BTC

And many happy returns on your birthday ProfMac!

[ProfMac]

I have decided to announce that a portion of the auction will end.  Conveniently, my birthday is Friday, May 10, and I have chosen a block with a pleasing number that may fall on that day as the closing block for the auction.

I should be clear on how a portion of an auction ends.  The highest 3 winning bids will become permanent winners, and that portion of the auction is closed.

To be considered, your bid must be included in or before block 235,532.  If you find that time is short, you may pray a higher mining fee for any last minute transactions.

Is this still valid? And if so, are the top three bids up to block 235,532 as follows?:

1   14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.23359794 BTC
2   1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1.2141 BTC
3   1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1.211 BTC

And many happy returns on your birthday ProfMac!

I have not updated the summary page, but the highest 3 bids as of block 235,532 are winners.

[ProfMac]

I have decided to announce that a portion of the auction will end.  Conveniently, my birthday is Friday, May 10, and I have chosen a block with a pleasing number that may fall on that day as the closing block for the auction.

I should be clear on how a portion of an auction ends.  The highest 3 winning bids will become permanent winners, and that portion of the auction is closed.

To be considered, your bid must be included in or before block 235,532.  If you find that time is short, you may pray a higher mining fee for any last minute transactions.

Is this still valid? And if so, are the top three bids up to block 235,532 as follows?:

1   14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.23359794 BTC
2   1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1.2141 BTC
3   1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1.211 BTC

And many happy returns on your birthday ProfMac!

I agree that these are the top 3 bids.

I have some PHP code that harvests all the payments where 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH is one of the outputs.  This means that I can tell how much has been paid to a given address.

Gmaxwell, a developer, says that it is not possible to find how much an address has paid out using the JSON interface on bitcoind, since it isn't necessary.  This means that I don't know how much has been refunded.  I can get the transaction if change was paid to the address, but not otherwise.  I really want to know that before I start refunding money.

I have found an additional API on blockchain.info that has all this information.  However, it has an output limit of the last 50 transactions.

Here are the amounts that are received.  Again, if I made a refund that included change to the 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH address, it is incorporated in the table below.  The developers seem to want anonymous transactions so much that they actively discourage any audit trail like I am trying to generate.

Anyway, I am still working on the complete package, that will give correct net balances.

Code:

count	address	received
2	14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd	1.23359794
3	1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu	1.21410000
7	1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1	1.21100000
5	18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon	1.21000000
3	1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8	1.20000000
5	1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P	1.18000001
4	1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4	1.18000000
3	1NFtyTwefVtHXbxCPVZBG9H6SrujTxk4G6	1.17000000
1	12peTunkkUp88aRaUgndRBzPNSrEw3PDu7	1.17000000
2	1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg	1.16950000
6	18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt	1.16698120
1	1G17oxGNchntdDFQ1kCVHrRHxFHaDkhJ1S	1.16500000
1	1H8sdeiWCCkEQdHozeATnTu6tgDbYFBPQF	1.16500000
3	1EkWkthDoxCXTyxRYVjtnmq13e8SbQNbs2	1.15000000
3	1PnAWB2opLVyGFUmaCeyjdFZ3w88PgPbmb	1.10000000

[ProfMac]

I have decided to announce that a portion of the auction will end.  Conveniently, my birthday is Friday, May 10, and I have chosen a block with a pleasing number that may fall on that day as the closing block for the auction.

I should be clear on how a portion of an auction ends.  The highest 3 winning bids will become permanent winners, and that portion of the auction is closed.

To be considered, your bid must be included in or before block 235,532.  If you find that time is short, you may pray a higher mining fee for any last minute transactions.

Is this still valid? And if so, are the top three bids up to block 235,532 as follows?:

1   14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.23359794 BTC
2   1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1.2141 BTC
3   1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1.211 BTC

And many happy returns on your birthday ProfMac!

I continue to receive feedback that it is important to end the auction.  I keep thinking the bidding will become active again when the units are being shipped, but I will make the following announcement.

SECOND PARTIAL END TO AUCTION
This announces another partial end for the auction.  Remember that the three bids above are permanent winners.  The highest remaining bid will be declared a permanent winner on or near this coming Friday, May 24.

The bidding will remain open with the possibility of extension until block number 237600.
If a bid is included in a block after 237590 and that address becomes the high bid and the auction is open, 10 is added to that block number to give the extended closing block.  That is, the auction is extended while bidding is active.
(The back end programmer, me, hates this complexity.)

The '1 hour' extension may keep some people up in the middle of the night.  That is not my intent.  I am completely comfortable making the extension for 25, 50, 100, 240, or another number of blocks.  Please feel free to ask for an alternate extension time. 

[dchou]

I think it's a fairly brilliant idea using the blockchain for auction purposes.

Can you explain the "partial auction" concept? I think it would be confusing for people who are just now seeing your auction to understand from the blockchain that the first 3 bids have already been won. 

Why not end the entire auction at a specific block number, and then start a new one if you wish to issue more shares?

[ProfMac]

I think it's a fairly brilliant idea using the blockchain for auction purposes.

Can you explain the "partial auction" concept? I think it would be confusing for people who are just now seeing your auction to understand from the blockchain that the first 3 bids have already been won. 

Why not end the entire auction at a specific block number, and then start a new one if you wish to issue more shares?

block-chain
Thanks.  I think using the block-chain for auction is a very natural thing to do with Bitcoin.  If I had not done it, someone else would have.  There is even a web based auction site doing it now that I just learned about.  That is where I got the idea of using a certain block number to end the auction.

The idea of a multiple winner auction is also not my idea.  In the early years eBay had something they called a Dutch auction.  This was a multiple winner auction with slightly different rules.  A change that I made was to let the auctioneer change the number of winning bids.  This was to solve a practical problem.  If I announced a bid for 70 shares, but only had 50 serious bidders, I could end up selling shares in my Avalon for very small bids.  However, if I limited the auction to a small number of winning bids, I should be able to avoid the tiny bid problem, but I might have to turn away people who wanted to buy, at a time that I wanted to sell at their price.  That's where the rule came from where the auctioneer can change (typically expand) the number of winning bids.

partial ending
People were asking for the auction to end but I was not ready to end the whole auction.  I happened to notice that changing the number of winning bids moves the boundary at the bottom of the list.  However, the list has a top as well as a bottom.  So I thought, I'll just shorten the list at the top, and the people at the very top are now final winners, they are no longer active bidders in the auction, and they can't lose their place.  So I suddenly have this idea of partially ending an auction.  I have never heard of this idea before, and I would be grateful for any reference to it that anyone knows about.  I think this gives certainty to those people who want it.

Rules grow in an organic fashion no matter how much logic people try to use.  Laws grow from problems.  I had a specific problem that one bidder wanted to retract his bids, and I do not want to change any rule during an auction.  I don't mind introducing a new rule, however.  The partial ending rule would solve two problems for me at once.  It let the auction end for some people, and it would generate some new high bids and make the remorseful bidder lose his winning status, and I could return his funds while keeping a firm "no retractions" policy.

end and re-start to issue more shares
There is a side conversation going on.  Someone put another Batch #2 Avalon for sale yesterday with bids starting at BTC 100, and I wanted to raise another BTC 50 or so to bid on it.  I thought a new auction in a pristine thread might have some vigor.  So I opened another auction.  It really is a separate auction from this one, and the rules for it are tuned a little differently.  Dchou and I have been having a discussion about both auctions, and I thought some of our discussion should be public in this thread. 

One of the things that I changed in the new auction is to speak of a facility (or mining farm) and that the shares are for the entire facility, not one specific Avalon.  Since I have a useful number of shares for this Avalon that have not been sold, I am comfortable putting those shares into the facility before discussing it with current shareholders here. 

That auction is entirely separate from this one.

A partially ended auction does mean that some of the status is not visible in the block-chain.  I don't like that.  However, I think it would be very peculiar to send serious bids back to the bidders, and ask them to turn around and re-bid at a different address.  So, for now, there are 3 bids that are final winners, 7 bids that are winning but not final, a new block number to make an additional bidder into a final winner, and some of that information is here in the discussion and not in the block-chain itself. 

[ProfMac]

SECOND PARTIAL END TO AUCTION
This announces another partial end for the auction.  Remember that the three bids above are permanent winners.  The highest remaining bid will be declared a permanent winner on or near this coming Friday, May 24.

The bidding will remain open with the possibility of extension until block number 237600.
If a bid is included in a block after 237590 and that address becomes the high bid and the auction is open, 10 is added to that block number to give the extended closing block.  That is, the auction is extended while bidding is active.
(The back end programmer, me, hates this complexity.)

The '1 hour' extension may keep some people up in the middle of the night.  That is not my intent.  I am completely comfortable making the extension for 25, 50, 100, 240, or another number of blocks.  Please feel free to ask for an alternate extension time.  

Looks like block creation is fairly fast. We are at block 237520 and it is only Thursday morning.
Don't forget to include miner's fees for last minute bids.

[dogie]

This has got way too complicated. Please tldr and simplify what you are offering, if anything currently.

[ProfMac]

This has got way too complicated. Please tldr and simplify what you are offering, if anything currently.

It is indeed way too complicated.

This morning, I am closing out 1 share (1% of production) for the Batch #2 Avalon that has been purchased.
Bids must be included in the block-chain by block 237600, with a 10 block extension for each new winning bidder.  Payments go to address 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH
For the life of me, I can't figure out what "TL;DR" means.


edited:
ROTFL
Too long; didn't read.
"omg you postwench. i can only say one thing in response - tl;dr"

Getting a short answer from a professor is like getting a thimble-full of water from a fire-hydrant.

[dogie]

This has got way too complicated. Please tldr and simplify what you are offering, if anything currently.

It is indeed way too complicated.

This morning, I am closing out 1 share (1% of production) for the Batch #2 Avalon that has been purchased.
Bids must be included in the block-chain by block 237600, with a 10 block extension for each new winning bidder.  Payments go to address 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH
For the life of me, I can't figure out what "TL;DR" means.

tldr = too long, didnt read. Its a hyper short single sentence summary of typically giant blocks of text people post.

So you have just 1% on offer? What is the opening/current price? Its very, very hard to tell in this thread.

[ProfMac]

This has got way too complicated. Please tldr and simplify what you are offering, if anything currently.

It is indeed way too complicated.

This morning, I am closing out 1 share (1% of production) for the Batch #2 Avalon that has been purchased.
Bids must be included in the block-chain by block 237600, with a 10 block extension for each new winning bidder.  Payments go to address 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH
For the life of me, I can't figure out what "TL;DR" means.

tldr = too long, didnt read. Its a hyper short single sentence summary of typically giant blocks of text people post.

So you have just 1% on offer? What is the opening/current price? Its very, very hard to tell in this thread.

Yes, I need to have some real time software that digests the payments and gives a summary.
At the moment, bidder 1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P is in the lead.  The total of bids from that address are 1.210 000 01
Another bid has been submitted without miner's fees.  I don't usually see zero fee transactions included in a block at this time of day.

This is the final standing effective with block 237,601

Code:

count	address	received

These 4 are permanent winners.
5	1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4		1.265000000    (permanent)
2	14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd	1.23359794 (permanent)
3	1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu		1.21410000 (permanent)
7	1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1	1.21100000 (permanent)

Code:

count	address	received

These are current top bidders
1	1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD	1.26
4	1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg	1.25950000
1	18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv	1.24
5	1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P	1.21000001
5	18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon	1.21000000
3	1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8	1.20000000

[dogie]

This is still too confusing for me. Still not clear how much you have for sale, how the auction works, how you even bid, what the price even is...

[ProfMac]

This is still too confusing for me. Still not clear how much you have for sale, how the auction works, how you even bid, what the price even is...

Those are fairly important things to know.

1.  I am selling a total of 10 shares in a multiple-winner auction.  Thus far, 3 of those shares have been declared as final winners, 1 share is coming up to end now, and 6 shares are still open with no end block specified.

2.  The workings of the auction are these:  bidders make bids.  The high bids win.  There are multiple winning bidders, and multiple ending times.  I refund bids that don't win.

3.  You bid by making one or more payments from your address to the bid address, 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH  The total of your payments is your bid.  Some people find it difficult to use bitcoin-qt for this auction, and have more success using a wallet at bitchain.info.

4.  The price changes with each successful bid.  I think it is difficult to keep track and make swoop bids at the end.  At the moment, BTC 1.21000001 is the winning bid.

[sealkid]

I would say that it is time consuming but worthwhile to read through the entire thread. I did so several weeks ago and am glad I did. Not only does this give a learned understanding of a fairly new (to the best of my knowledge) and inventive concept of using the block chain to perform auctions, it also offers the chance to buy shares of an Avalon ASIC that is confirmed batch 2 and shipping soon at a considerably lower price (right now anyway) than some other auctions taking place for batch 2 and 3 Avalon ASICs. Bids can be in increments as low as 1 satoshi, compared to higher increment auctions that only accept 0.1 or even 0.25 BTC increments, which are too high IMHO.

For more tl;dr minded folks out there, this tool provided by TheJuice is highly useful - http://blockchainauctions.com

Submit 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH as the auction address.

[ProfMac]

I would say that it is time consuming but worthwhile to read through the entire thread. I did so several weeks ago and am glad I did. Not only does this give a learned understanding of a fairly new (to the best of my knowledge) and inventive concept of using the block chain to perform auctions, it also offers the chance to buy shares of an Avalon ASIC that is confirmed batch 2 and shipping soon at a considerably lower price (right now anyway) than some other auctions taking place for batch 2 and 3 Avalon ASICs. Bids can be in increments as low as 1 satoshi, compared to higher increment auctions that only accept 0.1 or even 0.25 BTC increments, which are too high IMHO.

For more tl;dr minded folks out there, this tool provided by TheJuice is highly useful - http://blockchainauctions.com

Submit 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH as the auction address.

I do hope the price rises to par with the other auctions 

[ProfMac]

I do hope the price rises to par with the other auctions  

Here is an example of how you might bid on 3 shares.

Fund your bidders.

1.  Open a wallet on blockchain.info.  Be sure to use 2-factor authentication.
2.  Go to the bottom of the page on "receive money" and create a new address for each new bidder that you want to have, plus an extra.
3.  Go to the "send money" page and select custom.
4.  Click on the + button near the "To:" address until you have 3+1 addresses (4)
5.  Enter your addresses in the form.
6.  Enter the bid amount next to each account number.
7.  Enter 0.005 for the amount in the extra account.  This is the miner's fee for your forthcoming bid.
8.  Put the extra address into the slot for change, just in case.
9.  Send the payment

Bid on the auction.  Your funded bidders are ready to use before confirmation, if you work on blockchain.info.

1.  Go to the "send money" page and select custom.
2.  Hold down the control key in Windows, and mouse click on each one of your bidder addresses, and also the extra address.
3.  Enter the auction address in the "To" field.
4.  Remember the miner's fee.  Transactions without a miner's fee may not clear before the end of the auction.
5.  Again, put your "extra address" in the change field, just in case.
6.  Enter the total of all of your bids into the "amount" field.
7.  Send the payment.

Be sure to think before you send money.  I've done this procedure, and I have read these instructions, but be sure they make sense to you, I can't fix a mistake.

edited.
I followed my instructions.  They work.  Be sure to turn on "show scripts and coinbase" when you are viewing blockchain.info.

[ProfMac]

Last chance to bid.  See the standings.

[dogie]

https://blockchain.info/tx/e1e6b179d6596ffdde063f12fafbfd875b9e8fc9b8108efc2f8b119d395b2c8a
Bid 5@1.4, hopefully that worked

[Pistachio]

I thought I had won this earlier today with 1.2595 at block 235,532 (like it says in the heading), is this still open?

Last chance to bid.  See the standings.

[dchou]

Congrats Dogie, you've just paid 7 BTC for 1% of a 65 ghash Avalon.

Profmac, I think using one posting thread to hold partial auctions of 10% of an Avalon is much too confusing for anyone to sort through.  Even if someone reads the entire thread, there have been too many edited changes that no one knows what they are bidding on.

I do like using the blockchain, but this thread now holds your initial fixed price auction, your partial auction for 10% of your Avalon for 3 winners, and now for 1 additional winner.

It would seem to be easier to stop the auction and create a new thread and new address for the remaining 6%. 

[dogie]

Congrats Dogie, you've just paid 7 BTC for 1% of a 65 ghash Avalon.

Profmac, I think using one posting thread to hold partial auctions of 10% of an Avalon is much too confusing for anyone to sort through.  Even if someone reads the entire thread, there have been too many edited changes that no one knows what they are bidding on.

I do like using the blockchain, but this thread now holds your initial fixed price auction, your partial auction for 10% of your Avalon for 3 winners, and now for 1 additional winner.

It would seem to be easier to stop the auction and create a new thread and new address for the remaining 6%. 

7btc for 5%... ie 3.25 GH

[dchou]

Each bid represents 1% of his Avalon.

You need to send 5 bids of 1.4 BTC each from 5 separate addresses in order to do this.

[dogie]

Each bid represents 1% of his Avalon.

You need to send 5 bids of 1.4 BTC each from 5 separate addresses in order to do this.

Well I followed his instructions and it only provided me 1 address to send from. He knows what my intentions were/are and can either accept 5@1.4 or refund to 1@1.4. Up to him if he wants the money or not.

[dchou]

Further more, the following 3 bids have already one his first partial auction.  No one needs to outbid them.

14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.23359794 BTC
1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1.2141 BTC
1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1.211 BTC


Blockchain bids are binding, so this should be interesting.....

[dogie]

Further more, the following 3 bids have already one his first partial auction.  No one needs to outbid them.

14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.23359794 BTC
1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1.2141 BTC
1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1.211 BTC


Blockchain bids are binding, so this should be interesting.....

He said there are 5 more shares actively auctioned. 1 Locking in soon, 4 more by/during 5/24/13

[dchou]

Yes, in fact there will still be 6 outstanding 1% shares.  But in order to bid on each share, it needs to come from a unique address.

[dogie]

Yes, in fact there will still be 6 outstanding 1% shares.  But in order to bid on each share, it needs to come from a unique address.

You can stop stirring shit now, the Prof will sort it when he comes on.

[ProfMac]

Yes, in fact there will still be 6 outstanding 1% shares.  But in order to bid on each share, it needs to come from a unique address.

I'm going out for a dinner date with my wife.  I can't really stay and deal with this.

I think it is obvious to everyone that the very generous bid is a mistake.  I will refund it.

I also think that the auction was closed when he made the bid.  I will look more carefully when I return, but I think it closed at block ...601.

Anyway, please discuss it but don't freak out.  I'll do the right thing.

[dchou]

Yes, in fact there will still be 6 outstanding 1% shares.  But in order to bid on each share, it needs to come from a unique address.

You can stop stirring shit now, the Prof will sort it when he comes on.

I think I will change my handle to shit-stirrer

Seriously though, just trying to help clarify for everyone.

[dogie]

Yes, in fact there will still be 6 outstanding 1% shares.  But in order to bid on each share, it needs to come from a unique address.

I'm going out for a dinner date with my wife.  I can't really stay and deal with this.

I think it is obvious to everyone that the very generous bid is a mistake.  I will refund it.

I also think that the auction was closed when he made the bid.  I will look more carefully when I return, but I think it closed at block ...601.

Anyway, please discuss it but don't freak out.  I'll do the right thing.

Have a good time, you can resolve this tomorrow there is no rush. If I was in time then hurrah, I thought it was extended to 610? If not then poo

I'd still like to bid for 5@1.4, obviously it didn't go in right but can you accept it in this fashion? If not, please refund down to 1@1.4, easiest pay out address is 1DPyN58w62Bz5KF1AG96CKefvww6giRAHX

[dogie]

edited:
ROTFL
Too long; didn't read.
"omg you postwench. i can only say one thing in response - tl;dr"

Getting a short answer from a professor is like getting a thimble-full of water from a fire-hydrant.

This is why I don't read lecture notes tldr, something something thermoforming

[Rampion]

I would say that it is time consuming but worthwhile to read through the entire thread. I did so several weeks ago and am glad I did. Not only does this give a learned understanding of a fairly new (to the best of my knowledge) and inventive concept of using the block chain to perform auctions, it also offers the chance to buy shares of an Avalon ASIC that is confirmed batch 2 and shipping soon at a considerably lower price (right now anyway) than some other auctions taking place for batch 2 and 3 Avalon ASICs. Bids can be in increments as low as 1 satoshi, compared to higher increment auctions that only accept 0.1 or even 0.25 BTC increments, which are too high IMHO.

For more tl;dr minded folks out there, this tool provided by TheJuice is highly useful - http://blockchainauctions.com

Submit 17DCms43Vu2yusDjmpjHJuZihSSWkNzgSH as the auction address.

I do hope the price rises to par with the other auctions  

Prof, your method is so complicated that most interested buyers just do not take the time to learn and understand it. Just think about newbies, who are normally the most willing to pay huge amounts to get hold of some hashrate, for them the blockchain auction concept + your complicated rules + a non defined ending date is too much to handle (I know you have now decided to end at a certain block, but still it was not clear from the beginning).

The truth is that your methodology rewards the ones that take their time to understand it, as they will have cheaper prices than they will find in other auctions. On the other side, is not so good for you, because making things so complicate just reduces what you are going to get for your Avalon shares.

When selling/auctioning, there is a rule of thumb that never fails: the simpler, the better - I'm sure that was one of the success basis of CoinHoarder's huge Avalon group buy.

[sealkid]

Prof, your method is so complicated that most interested buyers just do not take the time to learn and understand it. Just think about newbies, who are normally the most willing to pay huge amounts to get hold of some hashrate, for them the blockchain auction concept + your complicated rules + a non defined ending date is too much to handle (I know you have now decided to end at a certain block, but still it was not clear from the beginning).

The truth is that your methodology rewards the ones that take their time to understand it, as they will have cheaper prices than they will find in other auctions. On the other side, is not so good for you, because making things so complicate just reduces what you are going to get for your Avalon shares.

When selling/auctioning, there is a rule of thumb that never fails: the simpler, the better - I'm sure that was one of the success basis of CoinHoarder's huge Avalon group buy.

I very much agree and must confess to being one of the people that may benefit from the cheaper prices that may arise in this auction. I hope that doesn't make me a bad man! I'm feeling slightly guilty about other bidders possibly not having their bids accepted either because they misunderstood the methodology or the end time wasn't clear to them.

My guilt aside , as it appears to me at the moment, the bid from 1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4 of 1.265 BTC at block 237591 wins a 1% share. Auction ended at block 237601 with no further bids up to this point.

Lets see what ProfMac has to say.

[Pistachio]

I hope this means that bids lower than the top six will be either accepted or refund now. Several of these bids have been in limbo for six weeks and it does not look like they will win this auction after dogie's bids. That is unless you are willing to extend the number of slots up for auction.

Each bid represents 1% of his Avalon.

You need to send 5 bids of 1.4 BTC each from 5 separate addresses in order to do this.

Well I followed his instructions and it only provided me 1 address to send from. He knows what my intentions were/are and can either accept 5@1.4 or refund to 1@1.4. Up to him if he wants the money or not.

[dchou]

partial ending
People were asking for the auction to end but I was not ready to end the whole auction.  I happened to notice that changing the number of winning bids moves the boundary at the bottom of the list.  However, the list has a top as well as a bottom.  So I thought, I'll just shorten the list at the top, and the people at the very top are now final winners, they are no longer active bidders in the auction, and they can't lose their place.  So I suddenly have this idea of partially ending an auction.  I have never heard of this idea before, and I would be grateful for any reference to it that anyone knows about.  I think this gives certainty to those people who want it.

A partially ended auction does mean that some of the status is not visible in the block-chain.  I don't like that.  However, I think it would be very peculiar to send serious bids back to the bidders, and ask them to turn around and re-bid at a different address.  So, for now, there are 3 bids that are final winners, 7 bids that are winning but not final, a new block number to make an additional bidder into a final winner, and some of that information is here in the discussion and not in the block-chain itself. 

The partial auction also creates problems.  It's not easy for a bidder to see just by looking at the blockchain who has already won.  In our case, there was no need to outbid any of the top three bids in order to win the 2nd partial auction.  But now that they are outbid, any new bidders will not understand the minimum bid that they will need to win the 5th share (Since the first 4 slots have already been won). 

[dchou]

It goes without saying, that I would like to be issued a refund for my bids today.  As I am now out of the top 10 bids, with no intention of bidding higher, my BTC will just be sitting there.

[ProfMac]

I have written some rules for the final heat of this auction.  These rules are not live, as I welcome your feedback for a while.

In particular, if there are fewer than 10 partial-winners at the final closing of the auction, I have to decide whether I include other winners to make a total of 10, or whether I return those bids.

If you are a bidder but have remorse, of course you will want to have me return those bids.
If you are a bidder who thinks you got a wonderful deal, you will want me to declare a total of 10 bidders, or even more, as winners.

So.  please feel free to read the language off the link and have your say.  As always, I will read what you  write, and change what I do, but perhaps not in the way you hoped.

When this goes live, I will start a new topic and post it's link in this thread.

[ProfMac]

It goes without saying, that I would like to be issued a refund for my bids today.  As I am now out of the top 10 bids, with no intention of bidding higher, my BTC will just be sitting there.

I think the blunder bid, and the non-winning bids are returned and that all is tidy.
If you do not think so now, please let me know.

[dchou]

I have written some rules for the final heat of this auction.  These rules are not live, as I welcome your feedback for a while.

My biggest issue with the partial auction is that it is not transparent enough.  Until you can modify TheJuice's auction app to show who the partial winners are, it will be clearer for everyone just to end an auction, issue a new address, and have people bid fresh.

[ProfMac]

I have written some rules for the final heat of this auction.  These rules are not live, as I welcome your feedback for a while.

My biggest issue with the partial auction is that it is not transparent enough.  Until you can modify TheJuice's auction app to show who the partial winners are, it will be clearer for everyone just to end an auction, issue a new address, and have people bid fresh.

I think the proposed rules address that.

[dogie]

It goes without saying, that I would like to be issued a refund for my bids today.  As I am now out of the top 10 bids, with no intention of bidding higher, my BTC will just be sitting there.

I think the blunder bid, and the non-winning bids are returned and that all is tidy.
If you do not think so now, please let me know.

So Prof are you accepting any/all of my bids? I was lying in bed and think I worked out how to actually do it xD I should have send 1.5 to each of my addresses, and so when I sent on to you it would have allowed me to select 5 addresses.

[ProfMac]

It goes without saying, that I would like to be issued a refund for my bids today.  As I am now out of the top 10 bids, with no intention of bidding higher, my BTC will just be sitting there.

I think the blunder bid, and the non-winning bids are returned and that all is tidy.
If you do not think so now, please let me know.

So Prof are you accepting any/all of my bids? I was lying in bed and think I worked out how to actually do it xD I should have send 1.5 to each of my addresses, and so when I sent on to you it would have allowed me to select 5 addresses.

I welcome your bids, but I sent the entire blunder-bid back so that the record is very clean in the block-chain.

You may want to practice this using only your own addresses, so you don't lose control of your money.  The instructions I wrote are in post #155.

[dogie]

It goes without saying, that I would like to be issued a refund for my bids today.  As I am now out of the top 10 bids, with no intention of bidding higher, my BTC will just be sitting there.

I think the blunder bid, and the non-winning bids are returned and that all is tidy.
If you do not think so now, please let me know.

So Prof are you accepting any/all of my bids? I was lying in bed and think I worked out how to actually do it xD I should have send 1.5 to each of my addresses, and so when I sent on to you it would have allowed me to select 5 addresses.

I welcome your bids, but I sent the entire blunder-bid back so that the record is very clean in the block-chain.

You may want to practice this using only your own addresses, so you don't lose control of your money.  The instructions I wrote are in post #155.

Rec.

[ProfMac]

This is  a statement of the current winners.  If you are not on this list, you should have all of your bids returned at this time.  If this is not true for some reason, please let me know.

Please alert me to any discrepancy between this list and your records.  While I think this list is correct, it is the block-chain that is the final authority, and in any disagreements between this list and the block-chain, the block-chain wins.

I will open the final heat of the auction tomorrow.  Again, if you wish to comment on one aspect of the auction rules where I have not made a final decision, please do so soon.

Code:

5	1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4		1.265000000    (permanent)
1	1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD	1.26
4	1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg	1.25950000
1	18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv	1.24
2	14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd	1.23359794 (permanent)
3	1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu		1.21410000 (permanent)
7	1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1	1.21100000 (permanent)
5	1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P	1.21000001
5	18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon	1.21000000
3	1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8	1.20000000

[ProfMac]

I have announced the final heat of this auction in a new thread.

[ProfMac]

I have announced a buy-back for anyone who paid into address 17Pq8oPtk8rikxZhF1wENFqR9YtDyLyr8E in the fixed-price share-purchase.

[ProfMac]

There is some new opinion that miners may, under some set of circumstances, be considered a Money Service Business (MSB) and require registration.  As a Ph.D. there is absolutely no way I can say oh, I didn't know,  ignore the issue, and expect freedom from trouble.  

One set of opinions is that, when only bitcoin is involved, mining is clearly not a MSB.
Another set of opinions, based on a 2nd FinCEN advisory document, is that any miner may be a MSB.
Informal regulator comments, documented elsewhere in bitcointalk, say that the regulators ultimately intend to classify miners as MSBs regardless of the advisories to date.

I have read the two FinCEN documents that I am aware of, and I find the 2nd document in some contradiction with the 1st.  Especially in view of this contradiction and my lack of specific expertise I think it would be foolish to form and act on my own opinion without receiving expert advice.

In addition, it seems that the bitcoin foundation has recently received a cease and desist order from the State of California.  I don't comprehend any justification whatsoever for this order, but nonetheless the order exists.

I have been careful to keep all transactions, actual and promised, strictly limited to bitcoin and not involve USD or other fiat, and also not to involve other cryptocoins.  In addition, my policy has been to make payments strictly to the bitcoin address that originally paid; I did violate this in a transaction early in the auction, but I think this is self documenting and an isolated incident and not a pattern of behavior.  This further strengthens my defense against a claim of being a money transmitter, a particular category of MSB that is under intense scrutiny in the bitcoin environment.  Our transactions will all be visible on the block-chain so our transparency is high and the transactions cannot be altered.

I have put out feelers to learn the cost of a legal analysis of my specific situation for my Avalon and the relationship to each of you.

You may wish to consider your future preference in the event that I call for you to submit identifying documents signed with your payout address.  

In general, I will conform to any applicable paperwork requirements.  In addition, I will be cautious about making or retaining subversive or seditious comments in this thread.  

In very broad terms, that conformance may consist of

• producing documentation
  
• ceasing operations
• partnering with another entity
  

It is good strategy to plan for the most pessimistic decision pathway.  Along those lines, it is foreseeable that I must collect identifying information and that some shareholders do not provide it in a timely manner.  In this pessimistic scenario, I will not pay dividends to them, and will return the original buy-in amounts to their payment addresses.  This will be a last-ditch & least preferred choice.

My established management style is to take care of situations through good communication, voluntary actions, or natural attrition whenever possible.  The hope is that everyone remains satisfied (Hah! This is Spartica bitcoin).  Toward that end, I again mention the buy-back that was announced in the previous post in this thread.

March 18 item and public commentary.

[ProfMac]

Quoted for your information.

We address these issues in the legal subforum, mostly. 

In sum, there are two regulatory regimes that govern most bitcoin businesses: Money Transmission and Securities:

Money transmission is regulated on the state and federal levels.  The federal level is straightforward.  Miners (who convert to fiat) and Exchangers (who buy or sell BTC as a business) are considered "money transmitters" by FinCEN, the government agency that administers the Bank Secrecy Act.  These businesses must register with FinCEN as money services businesses, and design and implement Anti-money laundering (AML) and Know your Customer (KYC) policies.  The state level is more complex.  Any state in which your business solicits customers or transacts business - whether or not your business is physically located there - will require a license in that state.  These licenses are expensive and time-consuming.  Also, they are not granted automatically; money transmission is a privilege under most states' laws, not a right.

Securities are regulated on the state and federal levels as well.  Most of the perpetual mining bonds and "shares" of "companies" being sold in the securities forum here on the boards are unregistered, restricted securities.  They also don't provide the kinds of disclosures that issuing companies are required to provide.  That's lawyer talk for "illegal".  These issuances would likely be legal, if their issuers would file the appropriate paperwork to comply with the rules.  Unfortunately, there is not enough money involved yet to make a lawyer worth it.  Until then, it's casual securities fraud.

The foregoing was a very general explanation of the regulatory regimes that apply to BTC businesses.  If you have more specific questions, I would suggest looking into the legal subforum.  There is a lot of very granular detail in the posts there.  Hope this helps!

[ProfMac]

The shared income will be paid from address 18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC

After taking 5 days to travel from Minneapolis to a remote small town in Minnesota, the unit arrived about 12:30 CDT midday on Tuesday.  It took some phone calls and patience to get the ma and pa "last mile" courier to bring the unit to me that soon.

It is a black Avalon with controller version 1.52.  I added an antenna from a spare D-Link DI-524 router, a spare power cable from who knows where, grabbed a laptop and a cable, and occupied the kitchen for an afternoon.  

I did some basic administration work, such as adding a password to the account.  I don't have the routing set up correctly, so the laptop cannot see the rest of the network and I am carrying slips of paper between floors of the house as I set up mining pool accounts and the like.

I let it hash overnight using WiFi.  I did see the dreaded amber many times during the night, but it always recovered.  The second day I flashed the new cklovias firmware image into it, 20130703, and configured the unit to select its own clock speed.  You can see the down time while updating the firmware, and the improvement in the hash rate that followed.

Thus far, I have connected the unit to ozcoin, btc guild, and eligius.  For a while today, I had it connected to all three in balanced mode.  At this writing, two of the three modules, or (2/3) of the hashpower is going to eligius.  It seems that 1/3 is about 27 GH/s, 2/3 is about 55 GH/s, and full output is about 73 GH/s.

Soon, surely within 24 hours, the BTC mined at ozcoin and btc guild will pay out to the payout address.  At that time, say 23:59 GMT Friday, we should have a preliminary lower estimate of the actual income production of the unit.  Eligius pays out directly in the miner's fee block, which means that those funds are pristine when I receive them.  I don't care about that, but some people want coins with no history at all, to increase their anonymous nature.

I am still configuring the unit, and I may let it mine from the basement for a while, in the near future.  The basement is 10-15°F cooler than it's current location, and the unit may hash faster there.  It is dank, and the unit may have a shorter life there.  

I have started the unit with clock speeds of 300 & 360 with the --avalon-auto parameter set.  From the lower clock speed, it seemed to stabilize to a clock speed of 347. From the higher clock speed, it has dropped to 343 but I don't think it has had time to stabilize.  In case any of my students read this and say "- 2 points for not giving units" I assume the clock speed is in MHz, but I don't know right now.

Code:

Temp 28 45 50
Fan speed 2640 3720 3840

The preliminary hash rate indications, 81,000 GH/s, suggests that I will mine 8.683 BTC a little more frequently than once per week.  It would be simple to interpret a payment of 0.08683 BTC per share that you hold.  I am inclined to do it that way, but as always feel free to leave civilized but disagreeing comments.

[sealkid]

Exciting times! I am happy to leave the share payment schedule and mining details up to you, since it is your time and effort researching and setting up and running the avalon. I will have to go back and read everything again regarding conversations about pools, overclocking, other coins, etc.

[ProfMac]

10:15 CDT 
moved to slush's pool.  this is a temporary move to see how it behaves.

[ProfMac]

I am preparing to make the first payout.  Some payments used more than one input address in the payment transaction.  For the first payout, I am going to pick one of those addresses to pay to.

Here is the schedule that I propose to pay against.  Please let me know if there is any problem with this.

Code:

Address	Shares	BTC
		
(ProfMac)	31	2.03189361
18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon	26	1.70416883
17LBCmWzVjJFVuLTWBM7GPSUkgu1e3MruU	25	1.63862388
1BJa5r7bq3xEuAfmKmiLFUmqMK8NwhszLB	5	0.32772478
12fLsHddqAhjZEc6HEAxMTWPe4vgR3f1uT	4	0.26217982
1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4	1	0.06554496
1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD	1	0.06554496
1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg	1	0.06554496
18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv	1	0.06554496
14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd	1	0.06554496
1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu	1	0.06554496
1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1	1	0.06554496
1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P	1	0.06554496
1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8	1	0.06554496
		
		
	100.00000000	6.55449551

[ProfMac]

I have sent two transactions.  The first transaction sent change to a newly created address.  The second transaction used the coins from that address.

Anyway, the Avalon is delivered, live, mining, and the first payment to y'all has been disbursed.



At the Ubuntu command line, I typed

bitcoind unlockwallet "secret pass phrase" 60

bitcoind sendmany "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" '{"18RKachrcvzBHFdwzjgGK19amp77pkNBKz":2.01033157,
"18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon":1.68608454,
"17LBCmWzVjJFVuLTWBM7GPSUkgu1e3MruU":1.62123514,
"1BJa5r7bq3xEuAfmKmiLFUmqMK8NwhszLB":0.32424703,
"12fLsHddqAhjZEc6HEAxMTWPe4vgR3f1uT":0.25939762,
"1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4":0.06484941,
"1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD":0.06484941,
"1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg":0.06484941,
"18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv":0.06484941,
"14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd":0.06484941,
"1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu":0.06484941,
"1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1":0.06484941,
"1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P":0.06484941,
"1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8":0.06484941}'

[bitrocket]

Confirmed receipt of the first payment.
Thank you ProfMac for organizing all of this!

[sealkid]

Sorry I've only just got around to checking this, it's the first chance I've had. It appears that three of the 1% shares were not paid out correctly?

Comparing the list from https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215993.msg2295276#msg2295276

The ones in red did not get paid out.

Final auction results.  These 10 accounts each own 1 share (1%) of the Avalon's output.

    1   1MLFkF3dPwNzwBsw6DFUpXjn78RKwwhVuJ   1.4021 (permanent)
    x   18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv   1.402 (permanent)
    1   1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P   1.4015
    1   1CBkQc83dMGVAaseYM1TZRLjeBGAcsd4Z1   1.401 (permanent)
    2   1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD   1.400001 (permanent)
    1   15B1jLCFXFiWwkreAo3bEMeMMjH435Q9cA   1.40000001
    5   1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4      1.265000000    (permanent)
    2   14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1.23359794 (permanent)
    3   1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu      1.21410000 (permanent)
    7   1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1.21100000 (permanent)

Meaning that the two below shares in blue were paid out in error? (because they don't appear on the above quoted list for single shares?) Leaving one share paid out in error unaccounted for?

Address   Shares   BTC
      
(ProfMac)   31   2.03189361
18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon   26   1.70416883
17LBCmWzVjJFVuLTWBM7GPSUkgu1e3MruU   25   1.63862388
1BJa5r7bq3xEuAfmKmiLFUmqMK8NwhszLB   5   0.32772478
12fLsHddqAhjZEc6HEAxMTWPe4vgR3f1uT   4   0.26217982
1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4   1   0.06554496
1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD   1   0.06554496
1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg   1   0.06554496
18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv   1   0.06554496
14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd   1   0.06554496
1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu   1   0.06554496
1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1   1   0.06554496
1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P   1   0.06554496
1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8   1   0.06554496

Am I right? Or going mad? It's been a looooong day... 

[ProfMac]

Sorry I've only just got around to checking this, it's the first chance I've had. It appears that three of the 1% shares were not paid out correctly?

Am I right? Or going mad? It's been a looooong day...  

I'll check it out again.

Edited:

Ok.  I grabbed the obsolete list from Pistachio's post, instead of my own post.  So some people got a surprise extra payment.  I hope they pay me back.

In addition, I overpayed 18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon by 1 share (0.06554496 BTC)

I will pay the 3 accounts their shortage in the next payment.  Then they will be correct.
Then I will pay the regular payments, with a deduction from my account and 18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon.
Following that, the balance should be 0 (or immature mined coins) and everyone should be settled correctly.

[ProfMac]

I think everyone who should receive a payout now has one, and the totals (to you) should be correct.

I used bitcoind to send the payouts.  It creates a new address in the same account to receive the change.  It pays out of an account, not out of an address, with the sendmany command.  I think that is good, so far the total received by 18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC is the total generated by the Avalon.

The transactions involved are

63ba75f2b96879a56e8361d5a8325cc64978bb67f84937f33f2a2bd92137cfa6
acde5675d8d0f657a9fa7b9a2dea962187d890421158282ff81a899aaedbf1ab

[perseus]

Awesome, ProfMac! When you get a chance, it might be cool to post a pic of your setup. I know it's all the same as everybody else's Avalon, but it still would be cool for to be able to say I own X shares of this Avalon!

[ProfMac]

Awesome, ProfMac! When you get a chance, it might be cool to post a pic of your setup. I know it's all the same as everybody else's Avalon, but it still would be cool for to be able to say I own X shares of this Avalon!

I'm trying to figure out if people can learn my physical address if I post the pictures on Google+

[ProfMac]

I'm convinced I get a better hash rate in a cool room.  I almost sat out on the patio with that Avalon last night, it was supposed to be about 59 °F overnight.  I have to admit, having it is making me a lot more security aware.  It's raining now, so I'm glad I didn't.  Perhaps tonight.  The basement did cool off a degree or two, however.  It dropped back to 70 °F, where it started 4 days ago.

[perseus]

Awesome, ProfMac! When you get a chance, it might be cool to post a pic of your setup. I know it's all the same as everybody else's Avalon, but it still would be cool for to be able to say I own X shares of this Avalon!

I'm trying to figure out if people can learn my physical address if I post the pictures on Google+

Interesting topic. Seems like there are two sources of address information -- metadata by your camera, and noise pattern by your camera. The latter is somewhat of a theoretical concern at this scale.

If you PM me a link to your pics, I could take a photo of your pictures with my non-GPS enabled camera, and post. That would mitigate the first issue, and partly the second (by mixing the noise of our two cameras).

[bitrocket]

Awesome, ProfMac! When you get a chance, it might be cool to post a pic of your setup. I know it's all the same as everybody else's Avalon, but it still would be cool for to be able to say I own X shares of this Avalon!

I'm trying to figure out if people can learn my physical address if I post the pictures on Google+

The meta data stored in a digital photo is called EXIF data. It can contain information about the camera and the photo including the date and time, resolution, shutter speed, etc. It can also contain the GPS coordinates of where the photo was taken if enabled in the camera.

You can check the data hidden in your photos with an EXIF viewer, which is available as a plugin for firefox and chrome. If you find your images contain too much information you can edit or remove the EXIF data with a program like EXIFcleaner.

[SolarSilver]

I'm trying to figure out if people can learn my physical address if I post the pictures on Google+

Display the picture with Preview, remove the visual identifiable sections with select & cmd-x, take a screenshot with cmd-shift-4. Bye bye EXIF data. Still possible steganography data inside, but not likely.

[ProfMac]

I did a Google on my real name and address, and there are lots and lots of links.  I have not ever been very secretive.  That means that using Google+ is a clear roadmap to my house, with photos and GPS locations.  There is even an address I used in New Orleans that I swear I never, ever put on the internet or even in employment records.  I have no idea how anyone got that.

I found an anonymous photo posting service.  You can upload photos without registering, but then you don't have a way to delete them.

I found an online exif viewer.  It gives a location where the waiting photograph was taken.


I have a nice photo of the delivery man but it has GPS data in it.  I have a nice photo of the unopened box, and it has address info on it.

The photos in the basement do not have GPS data, I guess there is too much stucco and earth.  

opening
dimension
padding
blemish
utility table
firebox
placed
air filter
thermometer

[perseus]

Cool! I like the heat removal solution.

[ProfMac]

Cool! I like the heat removal solution.

I am pretty good at thinking outside the box, but even so it took me days to envision this.

The table is a really cheap "get 'er done" model using pine.  I thought about making a more upscale table and selling them to the community.  I have an unemployed friend with a woodworking shop who likes to be very independent...

With another change, I can use water cooling to  pre-heat the water returning to the firebox, and just dump all the heat into a gravity fed circulating water home heating system.  The pipes in the computer room directly above the furnace are never much warmer than body temperature, even when it is -20°F outside.  This might make it simpler, to let me connect the Avalons after the firebox instead of before.

[bitrocket]

ProfMac, can you pls confirm what the distribution schedule will be for dividends?

thx!

[ProfMac]

ProfMac, can you pls confirm what the distribution schedule will be for dividends?

thx!

I was thinking every Tuesday about 12:30 PM, the weekly anniversary of when the device was powered up.
I can do it as often as 120 blocks after eligius pays out, but that will lead to a lot of clutter.
I can also do it "on demand" or whenever someone asks for it, in addition to at least every Tuesday.

At the moment, I don't have a preference.

[bitrocket]

ProfMac, can you pls confirm what the distribution schedule will be for dividends?

I was thinking every Tuesday about 12:30 PM, the weekly anniversary of when the device was powered up.
I can do it as often as 120 blocks after eligius pays out, but that will lead to a lot of clutter.
I can also do it "on demand" or whenever someone asks for it, in addition to at least every Tuesday.

At the moment, I don't have a preference.

I like Tuesdays, let's see what everyone else thinks. I also like the idea of a daily dividend if it's not too much extra work for you (automated?)

[ProfMac]

ProfMac, can you pls confirm what the distribution schedule will be for dividends?

I was thinking every Tuesday about 12:30 PM, the weekly anniversary of when the device was powered up.
I can do it as often as 120 blocks after eligius pays out, but that will lead to a lot of clutter.
I can also do it "on demand" or whenever someone asks for it, in addition to at least every Tuesday.

At the moment, I don't have a preference.

I like Tuesdays, let's see what everyone else thinks. I also like the idea of a daily dividend if it's not too much extra work for you (automated?)

I can't do a daily dividend.  There have been some periods of almost 48 hours between payments from eligius.  See the green line from July 17 through July 19.

I did think about putting your account numbers directly into the eligius payout.  It is not possible to be exactly sure of the payout amount, however, and so I would be doing cleanup payments, changing the miner settings, and it would lose the clarity of looking at http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC to see what's up.  I think that would reduce everyone's comfort level.

[bitrocket]

ProfMac, can you pls confirm what the distribution schedule will be for dividends?

I was thinking every Tuesday about 12:30 PM, the weekly anniversary of when the device was powered up.
I can do it as often as 120 blocks after eligius pays out, but that will lead to a lot of clutter.
I can also do it "on demand" or whenever someone asks for it, in addition to at least every Tuesday.

At the moment, I don't have a preference.

I like Tuesdays, let's see what everyone else thinks. I also like the idea of a daily dividend if it's not too much extra work for you (automated?)

I can't do a daily dividend.  There have been some periods of almost 48 hours between payments from eligius.  See the green line from July 17 through July 19.

I did think about putting your account numbers directly into the eligius payout.  It is not possible to be exactly sure of the payout amount, however, and so I would be doing cleanup payments, changing the miner settings, and it would lose the clarity of looking at http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC to see what's up.  I think that would reduce everyone's comfort level.

Im in favor of a daily dividend even if it skips the odd day, as long as it can be automated and doesn't require any extra work for you (or manual clean up payments)

[ProfMac]

ProfMac, can you pls confirm what the distribution schedule will be for dividends?

I was thinking every Tuesday about 12:30 PM, the weekly anniversary of when the device was powered up.
I can do it as often as 120 blocks after eligius pays out, but that will lead to a lot of clutter.
I can also do it "on demand" or whenever someone asks for it, in addition to at least every Tuesday.

At the moment, I don't have a preference.

I like Tuesdays, let's see what everyone else thinks. I also like the idea of a daily dividend if it's not too much extra work for you (automated?)

I can't do a daily dividend.  There have been some periods of almost 48 hours between payments from eligius.  See the green line from July 17 through July 19.

I did think about putting your account numbers directly into the eligius payout.  It is not possible to be exactly sure of the payout amount, however, and so I would be doing cleanup payments, changing the miner settings, and it would lose the clarity of looking at http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC to see what's up.  I think that would reduce everyone's comfort level.

Im in favor of a daily dividend even if it skips the odd day, as long as it can be automated and doesn't require any extra work for you (or manual clean up payments)

Give me a program or script that will work with Ubuntu 12.04.  It must be written clearly enough that a somewhat experienced programmer can read it and be sure it is safe.  Everyone will have to agree to let me run it.  If it fails in any manner, none of you will have any recourse for lost funds.  It should probably use the standard API calls. 

As a reminder, I am willing to make a payout whenever there are mature funds.  I think it will increase the clutter and difficulty when you want to check the books, but that is your call.  If just 1 person calls for this, I will make it so.

Also, I am willing to produce a distribution any time someone asks for one and there are mature funds.  If you have some need coming up, I will make a distribution on demand, no questions asked.  The funds from 7:33 CDT today (Chicago/Dallas) still need about 1-2 hours to be mature, so at this time, block + 15 hours, I can't distribute them.

Another option, in principle, is for me to forgo my own payout until everyone else is an average week ahead, and continue to pay weekly.  Of course, I would want some compensation for this.  For example, I currently pay myself balance*(31/100) - miner_fee.  We could change the fraction to [( (31+k) / (100+k)) - miner_fee] where everyone's share is diluted 100 / (100+k).  I note that the value of k is currently 0.  If there is unanimous agreement on some value of k, I am willing to do prepay everyone a week.

[dchou]

I am fine with the weekly payout schedule

[perseus]

Weekly is fine -- let's not burden ProfMac with too much overhead beyond the care and feeding of the machine.

[ProfMac]

I have a second Avalon in my shop for repair.  It is hashing at this moment, and the statistics are online.

It is in a warm room, temp1 is 26°C and the --avalon-auto frequency is 353 MHz, and temp 3 is 49°C.
My original machine is in a cool basement.  temp1 is 22°C, --avalon-auto frequency is 347, and temp 3 is 49°C.

The repair is not perfected.  I still have to do some careful soldering, and some extensive dis-assembly of his Avalon.  The fact that it started working after my temporary patch now gives me confidence that my diagnosis is correct, and the repair is feasible.

The owner may want to sell his Avalon at auction due to the current difficulty level.  His Avalon, as is with some parts dangling outside the case, may be hashing slightly better (82/80) than my original.  I will let it run overnight and see what the data say tomorrow.

I may want to suggest that he may get more at auction if he sells my original Avalon with a 2 week online history and no modifications, instead of his marginally better machine but with a short hashing history and a field repair.

If he goes for the proposal, I will swap ownership of the units.  I may or may not finish the repair if I do the swap.  The repair may or may not damage the machine.

If anyone is not comfortable with the swap, please respond with something very similar to "I veto the swap" and I will not propose it to the owner.  I need to repair his unit tomorrow, Wed, morning if I am not going to make the swap-out.

[perseus]

Although I'm a total believer in ProfMac having autonomy (and indeed my last post on this thread was to that effect), I guess I must say this is pushing me a bit past my comfort zone.  A 2.5% increase in return in exchange for unknown risk does not seem worth it, unless ProfMac is able to make stronger warranties than he has in the post.  (Perhaps instead ProfMac should ask for 5% of the mining profit of the machine he repaired -- for himself, not for us?)

[ProfMac]

Although I'm a total believer in ProfMac having autonomy (and indeed my last post on this thread was to that effect), I guess I must say this is pushing me a bit past my comfort zone.  A 2.5% increase in return in exchange for unknown risk does not seem worth it, unless ProfMac is able to make stronger warranties than he has in the post.  (Perhaps instead ProfMac should ask for 5% of the mining profit of the machine he repaired -- for himself, not for us?)

I accept this as a veto.  My original machine is steadily hashing away.  The last power down was when I moved it to the cool basement, 8d 21h 3m 4s.

The repair went well.  The customer machine was down approximately 3 hours.  I rented bench space at the local computer repair business that my friends own.  Had a nice chat, they got to see an Avalon.  It's nice to have a dial-a-temp soldering iron.  I used a copper strand instead of a 0R resister.  Those guys are about the size of a pixel on your screen. 

The nuts for the Avalons are something I have never seen before.  They are machined from round stock, with a slot cut in the top.  This slot mates with a San Francisco Bay shaped cutout in the side panel, and the ears keep the slot aligned.  The bolt goes through the Golden Gate area.  Fortunately, I learned long ago to make a shop jig when I am doing anything.

We had a double or nothing sort of pay plan.  He paid USD mileage for the 170 mile travel, but I get to hash with his machine until Friday and keep the coins.  No repair, no pay; late repair, minimal pay;  all bitcoin, no fiat exchange.

[perseus]

OR resistor -- I had never heard of that until I googled it. So it was a bad resistor that had to be replaced?

[ProfMac]

OR resistor -- I had never heard of that until I googled it. So it was a bad resistor that had to be replaced?

I don't know what was wrong with the original TP-Link.  The blue LED flashes about 1 second, then goes dark.  I think the catch all phrase is that it was "bricked."  I suspect that I can connect the serial port and de-brick it.  I don't see how it passed QC the way it was when I received it from the other customer. 

I should probably give Avalon a chance to retrieve it and run a post mortem.  I may just offer it for sale at $10 on eBay, as is, modified, non-functional.

Avalon made some mods to the TP-Link 703n.  And now I have repeated them on the replacement unit. 

There is a 0R that links the PCB antenna to the rest of the circuit, and there is a oversized pad conveniently placed where you can attach a wire for an external antenna.  One of the mods is to remove that 0R link and to attach the external wire, ground pad and signal pad, that goes to the antenna coupling.

The other mod is to couple the +5V from the downstream USB back to the board.  This is also anticipated on the board.  So basically, if you are good at handling small parts, you can move the same 0R from one place to another.  The part is about the size of two .. and I switched over to the piece of wire after about 15 minutes of failure with the original part.

[ProfMac]

I lost contact with eligius about 9 AM CDT.  The miner has performed fail-over to stratum+tcp://stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333 but they do not have public statistics on the individual accounts.
It had also restarted cgminer at that time.  I later warm-rebooted the TP-Link.

Since it is mining with another pool, I don't suspect any problem with the Avalon.

[ProfMac]

I disbursed a payment. 

The transaction details are not as I expected them to be.  Funds were pulled from some of my addresses that bitcoind is not supposed to link with the account, and the transaction fee is not what I requested.  I don't see anything improper in the command that I issued, but now there has to be some accounting adjustment.  I will puzzle over this and issue the adjustment next Tue.  It should not affect the amount of bitcoin that you receive, only the addresses that are inputs to the transaction.

I really want this to stay easy to understand.  My approach to pushing back against the negative vibes in the bitcoin world is to be transparent, and civilized in my language.

This is the command that I issued.

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind sendmany "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" '{"18RKachrcvzBHFdwzjgGK19amp77pkNBKz":3.29314456,
> "18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon":2.65979400,
> "17LBCmWzVjJFVuLTWBM7GPSUkgu1e3MruU":2.65979400,
> "1BJa5r7bq3xEuAfmKmiLFUmqMK8NwhszLB":0.53195880,
> "12fLsHddqAhjZEc6HEAxMTWPe4vgR3f1uT":0.42556704,
> "14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd":0.10639176,
> "15B1jLCFXFiWwkreAo3bEMeMMjH435Q9cA":0.10639176,
> "18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv":0.10639176,
> "1CBkQc83dMGVAaseYM1TZRLjeBGAcsd4Z1":0.10639176,
> "1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1":0.10639176,
> "1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4":0.10639176,
> "1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD":0.10639176,
> "1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu":0.10639176,
> "1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P":0.10639176,
> "1MLFkF3dPwNzwBsw6DFUpXjn78RKwwhVuJ":0.10639176}'


These are some addresses in the account:

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getaddressesbyaccount "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments"
[
    "18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC",
    "1Hv1Rz1zZS7CSKxUxWBVdcaVXGQ4UYUi7r"
]


This is the account balance before the disbursement:

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 120
10.63917699

:~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 1
11.92803544


And it shows a negative balance after the disbursement.

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 120
-0.01500297

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 1
1.27385548

The transmission fee was set to:

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind settxfee 0.00500099
true

[ranlo]

I disbursed a payment. 

The transaction details are not as I expected them to be.  Funds were pulled from some of my addresses that bitcoind is not supposed to link with the account, and the transaction fee is not what I requested.  I don't see anything improper in the command that I issued, but now there has to be some accounting adjustment.  I will puzzle over this and issue the adjustment next Tue.  It should not affect the amount of bitcoin that you receive, only the addresses that are inputs to the transaction.

I really want this to stay easy to understand.  My approach to pushing back against the negative vibes in the bitcoin world is to be transparent, and civilized in my language.

This is the command that I issued.

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind sendmany "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" '{"18RKachrcvzBHFdwzjgGK19amp77pkNBKz":3.29314456,
> "18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon":2.65979400,
> "17LBCmWzVjJFVuLTWBM7GPSUkgu1e3MruU":2.65979400,
> "1BJa5r7bq3xEuAfmKmiLFUmqMK8NwhszLB":0.53195880,
> "12fLsHddqAhjZEc6HEAxMTWPe4vgR3f1uT":0.42556704,
> "14Zqn3i1iDJzmkFCRjVqDe4YqgkrrmyEYd":0.10639176,
> "15B1jLCFXFiWwkreAo3bEMeMMjH435Q9cA":0.10639176,
> "18NQjpGcUdjMnqgCCz3F3SZcQfMyCi5Kyv":0.10639176,
> "1CBkQc83dMGVAaseYM1TZRLjeBGAcsd4Z1":0.10639176,
> "1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1":0.10639176,
> "1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4":0.10639176,
> "1Fm1mN7o16Te6PrkpgirWzZ2daibW9jdUD":0.10639176,
> "1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu":0.10639176,
> "1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P":0.10639176,
> "1MLFkF3dPwNzwBsw6DFUpXjn78RKwwhVuJ":0.10639176}'


These are some addresses in the account:

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getaddressesbyaccount "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments"
[
    "18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC",
    "1Hv1Rz1zZS7CSKxUxWBVdcaVXGQ4UYUi7r"
]


This is the account balance before the disbursement:

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 120
10.63917699

:~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 1
11.92803544


And it shows a negative balance after the disbursement.

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 120
-0.01500297

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind getbalance "Asic #2 Income Sharing Payments" 1
1.27385548

The transmission fee was set to:

~/.bitcoin$ bitcoind settxfee 0.00500099
true

You set your txfee as 0.005 BTC (or 5 BTM) per 1kb. Transaction size was 3 KB. So while the number does appear to be off a little, it's not by far (0.015 should have been the fee as opposed to 0.02). I think what you meant to set the fee as was 0.0005 (or half a bitmil) but you forgot a zero.

[perseus]

I have a small Makefile (remember tabs matter) to harvest the earnings from the machine, which I compare against a 4% share, 12fLsHddqAhjZEc6HEAxMTWPe4vgR3f1uT. My assumption is that all of the earnings of the machine have gone to the 18bL address. After the mining payout of 2013-07-30 21:15:13, I get 1.0214 owed versus 1.03452914 paid; so versus my calculations, you are slightly overpaid.
I have posted the Makefile in case others are interested. You can change the .04 to match your own percentage.

NAME = 18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC

all:
   - rm $(NAME)*
   wget http://blockchain.info/address/$(NAME)
   grep "No Inputs" $(NAME) | grep -o -e "button.*" | grep -o -e  "[0-9]*\.[0-9]* BTC" | grep -o -e "[0-9]*\.[0-9]*" > earnings
   cat earnings | awk '{total = total + $$1}END{print total*.04}'

[ProfMac]

I have a small Makefile (remember tabs matter) to harvest the earnings from the machine, which I compare against a 4% share, 12fLsHddqAhjZEc6HEAxMTWPe4vgR3f1uT. My assumption is that all of the earnings of the machine have gone to the 18bL address. After the mining payout of 2013-07-30 21:15:13, I get 1.0214 owed versus 1.03452914 paid; so versus my calculations, you are slightly overpaid.
I have posted the Makefile in case others are interested. You can change the .04 to match your own percentage.

NAME = 18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC

all:
   - rm $(NAME)*
   wget http://blockchain.info/address/$(NAME)
   grep "No Inputs" $(NAME) | grep -o -e "button.*" | grep -o -e  "[0-9]*\.[0-9]* BTC" | grep -o -e "[0-9]*\.[0-9]*" > earnings
   cat earnings | awk '{total = total + $$1}END{print total*.04}'

Thanks for keeping me honest.

All of the earnings do go to  18bLc

There are some earnings that are not directly mined.  Eligius has paid a rogue payment when they had several blocks in the payout queue.  When the Avalon was new, I mined on several pools and looked at the actual pay-output I received, and most of these pools paid from an existing account, and not from a mined block.

There are also some earnings that have not paid out.  I have btc-guild as one of the fail over options.  The eligius outage last week that lasted a couple of hours failed over.  In order to bring the balance with them to zero, I have to raise the payout amount fairly high, wait until the balance is fairly high, redirect the Avalon to another pool, then lower the payout threshold and wait a day for the payout.  I decided it is not worth the hassle for a small payment, I'll just let the balance accumulate as the Avalon get pointed to them in the future.

There is also the spike when I pointed a 2nd Avalon that I had for repair to the 18bLb pool.  I just did that for grins, to see how high in the contributor list we would go.  Professors do stuff like that, we're in it for the curiosity.  (Part of the fee to repair the unit was that I could mine for 3 days)  I have donated that money to the pool.

[perseus]

Ah! That makes sense. Silly introvert that I am, I inferred most of these things from the blockchain and a few scripts, but I could have just asked! Thanks again for doing a great job.

[ProfMac]

Ah! That makes sense. Silly introvert that I am, I inferred most of these things from the blockchain and a few scripts, but I could have just asked! Thanks again for doing a great job.

Once in grad school, I moved all my stuff into a U-Haul, cleaned the apartment, and sat down to rest.  The manager's husband came over and said "you're a scientist."  "Oh?"  "Yeah, I'm in history.  I would have bought a keg of beer and had all my friends do the work."

In today's disbursement, I returned the funds to the two accounts addresses 146J6Eqsu9ZDFq8VqzXPehYQdYHQZUUuuB and 1ProfMacyEowpEmbvkUpCx5xQLhXLmrXDb.  I also changed one of the payout addresses due to account misfortune.  This transaction paid 0.00200033 in change to a new address 1EFkX6dADe9x2A2wLxCUZTfJg5vxUkYbQr.  

The amount disbursed to the group, 7.268 370 33, is about 1.038 BTC/Day.  Eligius shows about 4.128 BTC as shelved, or earned and not yet paid out.  

The low last night was 55ºF, but my wife closed some doors and I did not get much cool air flow into the basement.  I did show an Avalon frequency at 350 MHz at one point in the night, but it is not reflected as an increased earnings rate in the eligius graph.  The temp3 reading on the avalon dropped to 49ºC, from the target max of 50ºC.  Last week we had a night of 45ºF, and I thought of moving the Avalon to a window upstairs, and having it pull the outside air directly in, and discharging the heated air into the house, but the risk and downtime my laziness prevailed against that decision.

I did get a 0.5 BTC tip to my tip address from posting in the Avalon user thread and helping a fellow Avalon owner get connected to the network.

[ProfMac]

I ran across another group. 

It looks like their founder took the money and ran, and 4 of the shareholders were able to gain control of the Avalons.  They are hashing at this time.  They are set up so that people can buy and sell shares, and they pay dividends, the first dividend apparently paid this morning.

They look pretty slick and official, and I look pretty small time and informal compared to them.  Makes me think of "Whole Foods" and "Wheatsville" food co-ops in Austin.

[ProfMac]

Request for trust rating.

Trust ratings, which seem very similar to the PGP web of trust from the 90s, are in place for the marketplace.

In summary, each person can trust certain individuals, who in turn trust other individuals.  As the web is filled out, a person fairly distant from you will have a trust rating that you can see.  This is self moderating, if someone tries to manipulate the system, his trust can be de-rated and thus his influence can be reduced.

Anyone who bid in my auction put bitcoin at risk, and when I paid you back I acted in a trustworthy manner.  I wish you would take a moment to give me a rating, if you have had your auction bid returned.

The guys who repaid dividends after I accidentally sent them some, PM me your forum names and I will rate you.

Thanks.

[ProfMac]

We have a tornado watch until 9 PM.  Perhaps 20 minutes ago there was a tornado warning.  We had large hail, in the 2" size at the house, larger within a mile.  Reports of unorganized rotation in the clouds within a mile, moving this way.

I unplugged the Avalon during the intense weather.  It went from clear sky to tornadic in less than an hour.  At least 1 window in the house was broken.  Some friends have pictures on FaceBook, but none of them are set to public.

I am plugged back in and hashing.

[perseus]

We have a tornado watch until 9 PM.  Perhaps 20 minutes ago there was a tornado warning.  We had large hail, in the 2" size at the house, larger within a mile.  Reports of unorganized rotation in the clouds within a mile, moving this way.

I unplugged the Avalon during the intense weather.  It went from clear sky to tornadic in less than an hour.  At least 1 window in the house was broken.  Some friends have pictures on FaceBook, but none of them are set to public.

I am plugged back in and hashing.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/1003526_10201903855582867_1380106927_n.jpg

The history graduate student story is right on. Those hail stones are insane!

[ProfMac]

Do any of you use an Android wallet?

[ProfMac]

The Avalon dropped to about 65 GH/s this morning for unknown reasons.  The outside air temperature was 48ºF shortly before this occurred.

I restarted cgminer and it did not appear to make any improvement.
I rebooted the Avalon, a warmstart, and it appeared to recover.

I had been trying to leave it alone and have a long uptime, but with the reboot I decided to flash with the cklovias firmware release of 2013-08-10.  This has succeeded and the machine has been hashing for 12 minutes.

[ProfMac]

I distributed funds this morning.  The funds that were "mature" were distributed.  I round the value down to 6 decimal positions and carry a tiny amount of change forward.  Today that change went to new address 1Btt4CHAcG1ymT57hFetYT7PofmJVBVWKs and the amount was 0.00040045 BTC

The cklovias software version 20130810 resulted in a lower hash rate.  A new version 20130810-1 was released, and I have installed it.  I will let it run overnight and see if it produces a higher hash-rate than the 20130603 version.

[ProfMac]

I have flashed a few successive versions of the software.
At 21:28 CDT, a few minutes ago, I flashed the 20130819 version.
The 20130814 & 20130814-1 versions degraded performance slightly.
The 20130818 version improved performance, and the auto tune frequency increased from 347 MHz to 352 MHz.
The orange light, which glows steadily when the unit is out of communication with the network, flashes.  This behavior is reported widely and is not understood.

[ProfMac]

I have distributed funds.

[ProfMac]

I am testing a 4th module in the Avalon.  I am mining in eligius's pool with a different address during the test.

[bitrocket]

I am testing a 4th module in the Avalon.  I am mining in eligius's pool with a different address during the test.

how is the testing going with the fourth module in the Avalon? Did you have any problems hooking it up and getting it to recognize the new module?

[ProfMac]

I am testing a 4th module in the Avalon.  I am mining in eligius's pool with a different address during the test.

how is the testing going with the fourth module in the Avalon? Did you have any problems hooking it up and getting it to recognize the new module?

The actual hook up and configuration was straightforward.  The difficulties were with physical things like screws and cables.  It takes at least a half hour to remove and re-install the top and I only do this when powered down.

The module is from a batch #3 unit.  The mounting holes on the bottom of the heat-sink are in a pattern of 5, and the holes for the batch #2 are in a pattern of 7.  In addition, the spreader strip has a wide end and a narrow end in the batch #3.  There are two mating symmetric strips on 2 modules in batch #3.

This has meant that the module is not aligned well inside the case, and it is not secured well to the base.  It has much more the flavor of research instrumentation and not so much the flavor of a commercial product.

The connections required a custom made IDE style ribbon cable.  One of the outfits accepted a next day air shipping but did not actually make the cable for about 5 days.  I later ordered from an outfit in Texas that I have done business with in the past, and they delivered promptly.

The IDE style cable, and the power cable plugged into the Batch #2 PDU & Control board without any special consideration.  I did take off the side panel in order to be able to get my fingers through all the cables and to the actual plug locations.

Each time I have powered up an Avalon, the hash rate has increased when the module was powered on for a day or so, and then rebooted.  I cannot explain this behavior.  This occurred with this new module as well. 

I also bought a kill-a-watt.  The power supply on the Avalon is a GX-850.  I am pulling almost 1,000 from the wall, so I am pulling a lot of power for this supply.  My backup plan is to let it run, and get a 2nd case commissioned.

Heat is becoming an issue, but perhaps not because of the 4th module.  In July, some nights had a low temperature of 45°F, and it was fairly easy to allow cool night air to flow into the basement and form a reservoir of cooling.  The temperature was fairly steady at about 65-68°F.  This week, however, the temperatures have reached 95°F in the daytime, with lows in the 70s.  The intake temperature for the Avalon has risen from a reported value of 21°C to a value of 26°C.  This is about 9°F temperature rise.  With this rise, the fans are running near 3960 RPM instead of the more leisurely 2200 RPM.  I have reduced the overclocking from the automatic 347 or so MHZ to a fixed 310 MHz.  This change in clocking is visible in the accepted hash rate.  Many Minnesota homes do not have air conditioning.  I am drenched in sweat.  It is like when I lived in New Orleans and set the air conditioner to $400/month.

I am attempting to commission a 2nd chassis.  I have a quote on a batch #2 chassis that does not have a control unit, a quote on a batch #2 control unit, I posses a batch #3 chassis with a control unit and no power distribution unit (PDU), and I have a bare PCB of a PDU but do not know whether it is a batch #2 or batch #3.  I have also ordered a "non-working" module that was originally in the batch #3 chassis, and I will see if the separate 10 chip asic board is good or bad.

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/18bLcVkviErQi75zB8X39jZXxHNpSZggdC
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1LU3zkC7GrdWZ6ccn4VN8jnsvQoJ9KTSx7

[ProfMac]

I did some scheduled maintenance today.

I purchased an OCZ ZX 1250 power supply.

The installation went well, the miner is hashing again.  The power draw at the wall is less, but the readings have not stabilized.  The initial indications are about 20 W less demand at 355 MHz clock.

[ProfMac]

Thunderstorm with hail & lightening.

[sealkid]

We love you ProfMac! And we know you feel it! 

[ProfMac]

We love you ProfMac! And we know you feel it! 

I know.  Some of the other group buy threads don't have nearly as much love in them.

I only wish I could make the hashing go faster.

[ProfMac]

There was 6" of blowing and drifting snow.  The high today is supposed to be 3°F. 
I have re-configured the Avalon so that it is not next to the furnace as shown in the Wall Street Journal, and I have resupplied natural gas to the furnace.

[ProfMac]

I have purchased a 2nd Avalon, and I am offering it at auction in order to gain an idea of the liquidation value of an Avalon.  If things go well, I will offer to liquidate your shares at that winning amount before midnight, December 31, less than 48 hours from now.

Please feel free to let me know what you think a minimum bid should be, for the entire 3 module Avalon, for you to want to sell out your shares.

[ProfMac]

I will travel to Austin, TX.  The departure depends a bit on the weather, so I don't have a rigid schedule.

For security reasons, I may not put my wallet on a laptop.  I have the blockchain.info wallet restricted so that it only accepts payouts from my home IP address and a YubiKey.

So it looks like I will not make a payout for 1 or 2 weeks.

[ProfMac]

My plans are changing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12etO7rLqwyKtVaDTNqNq_9sjf6pgEAU3Wz-OcBuovho/edit

[perseus]

Best wishes to you and your family, Prof Mac...

[sealkid]

My sincerest condolences. A wonderful Obituary.

[ProfMac]

My sincerest condolences. A wonderful Obituary.

Thank you.

[ProfMac]

I am in Austin taking care of some paperwork.  I did attend the Texas Bitcoin Conference last week.  I will be in Austin through this week, and will return to Minnesota after that.  I have locked down security on the miners and my wallets as much as I know how, and I will not make payments these two weeks, and if the miners have glitches, I cannot administer them remotely.

[ProfMac]

I scattered my wife's ashes in her favorite spot.  I felt a little dumb on the way there, but it was a beautiful experience.  I had a memorial service at our house in Austin, and had 25-30 friends drop over.  I went to Bitcoin Texas while I was in Austin, and went to a local meetup at Scholz's Garden.  I ate familiar Tex-Mex food many times.

I am back in Minnesota.  It is a big change from the 80°F there to the 21°F here.  We had winter mix changing to 2-3" of snow yesterday.  At least my miners like this weather.  Now that it is above 0°F outside, the house has warmed up to 62°F.

The miners ran well.  There was a half hour power outage a week ago, and my computer shut down.  The miners themselves booted back up and kept hashing.

I have distributed the current minings.

[ProfMac]

Soon, the miner will not pay for the cost of electricity.  In order to have tidy paperwork, it might make sense to hold an auction to sell it.  Please feel free to comment.

[ProfMac]

Soon, the miner will not pay for the cost of electricity.  In order to have tidy paperwork, it might make sense to hold an auction to sell it.  Please feel free to comment.

I have revived an auction.  I bought a second hand miner a few months ago so that I could sell it at auction and determine fair market price, and it is this other miner that I am selling in the auction. 

[ProfMac]

The mining calculator makes it look like I will lose profitability in mid May.

The rewards for this week are 0.04 BTC, or 0.0004 BTC for most shareholders.  I am going to let the amount increase a bit before I make a distribution, unless someone really wants me to make the distribution now for some reason.

It has been a week since the ground was covered with snow, and it is warming quickly.  It was 63°F today.  The miners are making the mining room pretty warm.  Although I have good winter heat in Minnesota, I don't have air conditioning.  I may get tired of mining before the profitability goes to 0.

No one bid on the Avalon at the auction.  I propose that it has 0 value, and when I shut the mining down, we are done with no lose ends.  If someone does want to buy the Avalon, I'll re-open the auction so that everything is transparent, and I will distribute the sales price to all the share holders.

I try to stay forward focused.  Whining isn't problem solving.  But it has been a tough year.  The bank wants to foreclose on the Austin house.  A short sale buyer wants to pay $140,000 less than the amount I get when I subtract the insurance itemization from the Zillow price.  I try to notice how I might produce value, not where life was unfair.  My response was to make a Kickstarter project.  I wish you would read it.  It is also on my Facebook account.  I wish you would share it on Facebook.

[ProfMac]

I ceased mining operations today.

It is 80+ °F inside the house.
It is becoming summer.
The profitability is gone.
I will be out of town for a while.
There should be a final distribution from Eligius to me, then to all y'all.

When the last mining payouts are made, I think we have finished our business together.

We all wished the profits were higher.  I have tried to be transparent and diligent, I hope you have been satisfied with my part of all this.

Thank you for your involvement.

[sealkid]

On behalf of myself and my clients I greatly appreciate your efforts in this endeavour ProfMac. My best wishes to you and yours. Trust and feedback has been posted. Until next time!

[SolarSilver]

So in the end, how did things balance out? Did the participants make back their initial investment?

[ProfMac]

So in the end, how did things balance out? Did the participants make back their initial investment?

I think it is fair to evaluate everything strictly in BTC.  From that viewpoint, all participants lost some of their investment.

A total of 79.71699897 BTC have been deposited to the embarcadero address.  The lowest cost that anyone paid for a share was equivalent to 86.83 BTC.

There are shelved shares on that address at Eligius that are worth almost 2 BTC.  These represent credit for shares that were mined, but were not paid due to orphan blocks and the like.  At the beginning of each new block mining period, the most recent 25 BTC worth of shelved shares are paid out, but as luck approaches 100%, this drops to 0 shelved shares, and when luck drops below 100% more shares become shelved. 

I view the shelved shares as losses inherent to the mining process.  By way of comparison, I found 3 valid blocks for Eligius (75 BTC + miner's fees), and 1 orphan block (total loss).

[ProfMac]

I have very mixed feelings about bitcoin at this time. 

During the bubble in Feb. through March 2013 Avalons were being offered for $30,000 on eBay.  It gave me a flush of hope at a very difficult time, and something new to talk about with my wife the last year that she was alive.  It was very difficult for her to form new memories, so every day we had a discussion of "what is bitcoin" and "what is that thing making all that noise." 

At the time, I felt fortunate that I was able to make a bid on a batch #2 machine, and I felt that I was doing a good thing to run the auction and allow others to participate.

The community realization that Avalon would not make their shipping targets ran in parallel my wife's decline.  As she sank into her dementia she increasingly trusted me to take care of her, and to run our household affairs.  This was a major turnaround from most of our marriage, when she was the smarter, stronger, and more organized person.  The more that she needed and trusted me, the more it was apparent that I could not have a professional job and also take care of her, and that the initial euphoria about the Avalon would remain unfulfilled.

Each night she would ask questions, a review of things she knew, as she worked with all her will to hold her mind together.  As the Avalon moved into the region of only paying for electricity, she sometimes asked questions that were deeply disturbing, such as "who are you" and "how many kids do I have."

I tried to build on this consortium experience and my sense that many of you respect me to form a bidders' group for the US Marshals Service auction, which happens to have ended today.  In a time when there is not very much good news from mining, it looked like a very safe effort to raise $200,000 or more, wire it to the Marshals, and bid perhaps $200 to $300 / BTC depending on the amount of money raised. 

It now appears that there are no new consortiums working in bitcoin.  The suits and the money have moved in.  I am crowded out.  I feel like "Harmonica" at the end of Serge Leone's "Once upon a time in the West" and it is time to move on.  This week, even Tuco is dead.

I am very thankful that my group have been publicly supportive of my administration.  You guys are the best in bitcoin land.  I wish there were more of us.