My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[myrkul]

So. If Cyprus starts a public works program aimed at building mountains and carving rivers, be prepared for war

You do remember that it's an island, yes?

[myrkul]

So. If Cyprus starts a public works program aimed at building mountains and carving rivers, be prepared for war

You do remember that it's an island, yes?

I didn't say it would be a small or inexpensive program. Do you have a better suggestion than post-human landscaping attempts?

Cheaper than building mountains, at least.

[myrkul]

You'll never work for Brussels, myrkul.

I think I can live with that.

[mmeijeri]

Special thanks to:

- Jeroen Dijsselbloem
- Angela Merkel
- Manuel Barroso
- the rest of officials of "European Comission"

What happened to you sucks big time, but you are blaming the wrong people. The EU just gave the Cypriot government billions in a "loan" that will likely never be repaid. If anything, you should thank them. It's the bankers that gambled with depositors' money and lost. And it's the Cypriot government that is responsible for creating an environment in which such banks could function. Fortunately, Bitcoin is immune to such shenanigans, provided you keep your private keys safe.

[muyuu]

Special thanks to:

- Jeroen Dijsselbloem
- Angela Merkel
- Manuel Barroso
- the rest of officials of "European Comission"

What happened to you sucks big time, but you are blaming the wrong people. The EU just gave the Cypriot government billions in a "loan" that will likely never be repaid. If anything, you should thank them. It's the bankers that gambled with depositors' money and lost. And it's the Cypriot government that is responsible for creating an environment in which such banks could function. Fortunately, Bitcoin is immune to such shenanigans, provided you keep your private keys safe.

That's absolute bollocks.

The EU caused this from the very beginning to the end.

[myrkul]

Special thanks to:

- Jeroen Dijsselbloem
- Angela Merkel
- Manuel Barroso
- the rest of officials of "European Comission"

What happened to you sucks big time, but you are blaming the wrong people. The EU just gave the Cypriot government billions in a "loan" that will likely never be repaid. If anything, you should thank them. It's the bankers that gambled with depositors' money and lost. And it's the Cypriot government that is responsible for creating an environment in which such banks could function. Fortunately, Bitcoin is immune to such shenanigans, provided you keep your private keys safe.

Yes, but it's the ECB that said "in order to get this loan, you must steal from your depositors."
Cyprus government was stupid.
Cyprus banks were stupid.
ECB was evil.
The little people foot the bill.

[mmeijeri]

That's absolute bollocks.

The EU caused this from the very beginning to the end.

Absolute bollocks eh? Care to back that up with some facts? The EU did not cause this problem at all, central banking and fractional reserve banking did this. And both of those existed in Cyprus before it joined the EU.

[mmeijeri]

Yes, but it's the ECB that said "in order to get this loan, you must steal from your depositors."

They didn't steal from their depositors, they merely refused to bail them out beyond the E100k limit enshrined in law. Bailing them out beyond that limit would have been outrageous theft from the taxpayers who would have had to foot the bill.

Cyprus government was stupid.

Check. Or actually, corrupt. They were corrupted both by the banks and by voters.

Cyprus banks were stupid.

Selfish. And evil.

ECB was evil.

Only to the degree it stole from those with euros by printing new ones to bail out governments in the periphery.

The little people foot the bill.

The little people are not footing the bill, EU taxpayers like yours truly are footing the bill.

[myrkul]

The little people are not footing the bill, EU taxpayers like yours truly are footing the bill.

Guess what?

You were anyway. You still are. You're a fucking slave, and you're defending the overseers.

[mmeijeri]

You were anyway. You still are. You're a fucking slave, and you're defending the overseers.

I'm not defending the EU at all, it has lots of faults, and so do its various institutions, including the ECB. But I'm also pointing out those who are really responsible for the Cypriot mess, and that's not the EU, it's the banks, the failing Cypriot oversight bodies, the Cypriot government and Cypriot voters. As Erik Voorhees puts it so nicely: democracy is the original 51% attack. Not that I know of another, more just but still viable system of government. The worst possible system except for all the others that have been tried, as Churchill is said to have put it. I'd prefer anarcho-capitalism, but I don't think it's viable, which is why we have social democracy forced upon us.

[cho]

I'm not defending the EU at all, it has lots of faults, and so do its various institutions, including the ECB. But I'm also pointing out those who are really responsible for the Cypriot mess, and that's not the EU, it's the banks, the failing Cypriot oversight bodies, the Cypriot government and Cypriot voters. As Erik Voorhees puts it so nicely: democracy is the original 51% attack. Not that I know of another, more just but still viable system of government. The worst possible system except for all the others that have been tried, as Churchill is said to have put it. I'd prefer anarcho-capitalism, but I don't think it's viable, which is why we have social democracy forced upon us.

At the very least, the EU is responsible for tying a whole lot of banking messes together, throwing them in the air, yell "FLY!", watch it drop down, be confident it will fly because of a stress test result, watch it crash, and pretend tying it all together was a good idea and untying it is impossible, all the while that banking mess is burning a hole through the earth like a melting corium from Techernobyl.

[rpietila]

I think some you are still missing the point, that according to the law, in the event of a liquidation of a bank, the debtors of the bank must repay their debts (mortgages etc.) prematurely or face liquidation. This was not effected.

Think about it. The creditors get stolen from, before even trying to make the debtors pay. A clear breach of the law (and common sense).

The ECB has sealed the fate of Bitcoin. It will go to $300k in 2016.

[mmeijeri]

At the very least, the EU is responsible for tying a whole lot of banking messes together, throwing them in the air, yell "FLY!", watch it drop down, be confident it will fly because of a stress test result, watch it crash, and pretend tying it all together was a good idea and untying it is impossible, all the while that banking mess is burning a hole through the earth like a melting corium from Techernobyl.

The ECB's loose monetary policy and acceptance of government bonds at par as collateral definitely made things worse, but that would not have been a problem if the Cypriot government hadn't subverted its banking system or vice versa. No Cypriot money was stolen by the EU, and lots of EU taxpayers' money went to Cyprus. If anything, Cyprus is the beneficiary.

[cho]

I think some you are still missing the point, that according to the law, in the event of a liquidation of a bank, the debtors of the bank must repay their debts (mortgages etc.) prematurely or face liquidation. This was not effected.

Could you tell us more about this please ? Where does that rule come from, is it true worldwide (or nearly), and do you know when this kind of rule has been put into place ? Thx

[mmeijeri]

I think some you are still missing the point, that according to the law, in the event of a liquidation of a bank, the debtors of the bank must repay their debts (mortgages etc.) prematurely or face liquidation. This was not effected.

That's the first time I've heard that. Do you have a link?

Think about it. The creditors get stolen from, before even trying to make the debtors pay. A clear breach of the law (and common sense).

The ECB has sealed the fate of Bitcoin. It will go to $300k in 2016.

I'm not saying the bail-out was a good idea. The Cypriot government should not have guaranteed its banks' deposits, but given that it did, it should have honoured its obligations. That would have led to a state default and no doubt emergency assistance from the EU in exchange for severe reforms, fire sales of all state assets etc. I doubt that would have been a better deal either for depositors or for the Cypriot population.

[myrkul]

You were anyway. You still are. You're a fucking slave, and you're defending the overseers.

I'm not defending the EU at all, it has lots of faults, and so do its various institutions, including the ECB. But I'm also pointing out those who are really responsible for the Cypriot mess, and that's not the EU, it's the banks, the failing Cypriot oversight bodies, the Cypriot government and Cypriot voters. As Erik Voorhees puts it so nicely: democracy is the original 51% attack. Not that I know of another, more just but still viable system of government. The worst possible system except for all the others that have been tried, as Churchill is said to have put it. I'd prefer anarcho-capitalism, but I don't think it's viable, which is why we have social democracy forced upon us.

You're very close to correct, here. Let me fix the sentence.
"But I'm also pointing out those who are really responsible for the Cypriot mess, and that's not just the EU, it's also the banks, the failing Cypriot oversight bodies, the Cypriot government and Cypriot voters."

I would like to point out, however, that had the EU not existed, this mess would likely not have happened in the first place.

So, why do you think that security, justice, and risk-management cannot be provided for on the open market, and must be forced upon us by a monopoly provider?

[mmeijeri]

You're very close to correct, here. Let me fix the sentence.
"But I'm also pointing out those who are really responsible for the Cypriot mess, and that's not just the EU, it's also the banks, the failing Cypriot oversight bodies, the Cypriot government and Cypriot voters."

The EU isn't even close to being the main culprit.

I would like to point out, however, that had the EU not existed, this mess would likely not have happened in the first place.

Oh really? How do you think the Cypriot government would have solved this problem? By printing their own money perhaps. That would hardly have been a solution.

So, why do you think that security, justice, and risk-management cannot be provided for on the open market, and must be forced upon us by a monopoly provider?

What makes you think I do?

[cho]

At the very least, the EU is responsible for tying a whole lot of banking messes together, throwing them in the air, yell "FLY!", watch it drop down, be confident it will fly because of a stress test result, watch it crash, and pretend tying it all together was a good idea and untying it is impossible, all the while that banking mess is burning a hole through the earth like a melting corium from Techernobyl.

The ECB's loose monetary policy and acceptance government bonds at par as collateral definitely made things worse, but that would not have been a problem if the Cypriot government hadn't subverted its banking system or vice versa. No Cypriot money was stolen by the EU, and lots of EU taxpayers's money went to Cyprus. If anything, Cyprus is the beneficiary.

Alas, the fact that most governments inside the EU are actually acting irresponsibly, all the while the EU officials pretend to say it's all good and support stupid national policies, pretend that leaving the eurozone is satanic, and are feeling comfortable with the ECB policies, puts the EU at fault in my book.
No cypriot money was stolen by the EU to its own profit, but the EU did steal cypriot money to the profit of cypriot bank shareholders and other supposedly first-line capital holders. They even tried to break their promise not to touch deposits under 100k.
Cyprus benefits from a loan, all the while it is denied the right tools to put itself out of the shithole. Now it needs a bigger loan, and next month an even bigger one will be required. Yay for that kind of help that doesn"t help.
(I'm not saying cyprus government and central bank are all white, far from it).

[myrkul]

You're very close to correct, here. Let me fix the sentence.
"But I'm also pointing out those who are really responsible for the Cypriot mess, and that's not just the EU, it's also the banks, the failing Cypriot oversight bodies, the Cypriot government and Cypriot voters."

The EU isn't even close to being the main culprit.

Says the man who is being taxed to pay for a bailout thousands of miles away.

I would like to point out, however, that had the EU not existed, this mess would likely not have happened in the first place.

Oh really? How do you think the Cypriot government would have solved this problem? By printing their own money perhaps. That would hardly have been a solution.

I'm saying the Greeks could have worked out their own solution, perhaps not even involving Cyprus. But we'll never know, because of the EU.

So, why do you think that security, justice, and risk-management cannot be provided for on the open market, and must be forced upon us by a monopoly provider?

Why do you think I do?

I'd prefer anarcho-capitalism, but I don't think it's viable, which is why we have social democracy forced upon us.

[cho]

Oh really? How do you think the Cypriot government would have solved this problem? By printing their own money perhaps. That would hardly have been a solution.

Some of the EU-imposed policies and recovery plans that are shoved down countries throats are stupid to the point of being suicidal.
Without their hands tied behind their back, Greece and Cyprus might have made a viable plan. Or might not have. But IMHO, a plan devised by a monkey to save greece or cyprus would have been better than the Troika's plans.