My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[freedomno1]

Actually they changed the laws so that it is no longer your money any longer, but a debt that the bank owes to you.

That's not a change, that's the whole point of banks.

The model is:
1) You lend your money to the band, ie you trade your money for a debt.
2) They then lend the money to someone else. At that point its no longer the bank's money either.
3) Hopefully the someone else pays the debt back with money, and the bank can pay your debt back with money.
4) Failing that maybe some kind taxpayer will pay to make up the difference.
5) Failing that the people who lost your money hope you'll blame the whole thing on the European Commission.

Not to ripple bash but this design seems damn familiar

[1714510242]

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[RavinTavin]

painful to read about...

[infested999]

Cyprus 101 for idiots

[Inedible]

painful to read about...

Painful to read

[Kazu]

Actually they changed the laws so that it is no longer your money any longer, but a debt that the bank owes to you.

That's not a change, that's the whole point of banks.

The model is:
1) You lend your money to the band, ie you trade your money for a debt.
2) They then lend the money to someone else. At that point its no longer the bank's money either.
3) Hopefully the someone else pays the debt back with money, and the bank can pay your debt back with money.
4) Failing that maybe some kind taxpayer will pay to make up the difference.
5) Failing that the people who lost your money hope you'll blame the whole thing on the European Commission.

Not to ripple bash but this design seems damn familiar

How does ripple lend the money to someone else? I see one chain of debt. Sure, its not on the level of Bitcoin, but it seems better than a bank. Closer to something like Dwolla.

[notme]

What would you do?

I certainly wouldn't ask a friend to abuse a position of power in order to put me at the front of the line.  I would accept my fate.

If this is sincere (which I doubt) hats off for sticking with your principles. As I don't have this specific principle I would help myself first.

I ran a pirateat40 passthrough.  When pirate defaulted, I paid back every investor I had from my own pocket the day he closed withdrawals.  I ate the loss.

Do you still doubt my sincerity?

[wachtwoord]

What would you do?

I certainly wouldn't ask a friend to abuse a position of power in order to put me at the front of the line.  I would accept my fate.

If this is sincere (which I doubt) hats off for sticking with your principles. As I don't have this specific principle I would help myself first.

I ran a pirateat40 passthrough.  When pirate defaulted, I paid back every investor I had from my own pocket the day he closed withdrawals.  I ate the loss.

Do you still doubt my sincerity?

If this concerned a normal (non-insured) passthrough you certainly went the extra mile. That was way more than you were morally obligated to do.

This makes me wish I had you as a pass through operator, would have saved me a lot of money

[notme]

What would you do?

I certainly wouldn't ask a friend to abuse a position of power in order to put me at the front of the line.  I would accept my fate.

If this is sincere (which I doubt) hats off for sticking with your principles. As I don't have this specific principle I would help myself first.

I ran a pirateat40 passthrough.  When pirate defaulted, I paid back every investor I had from my own pocket the day he closed withdrawals.  I ate the loss.

Do you still doubt my sincerity?

If this concerned a normal (non-insured) passthrough you certainly went the extra mile. That was way more than you were morally obligated to do.

This makes me wish I had you as a pass through operator, would have saved me a lot of money

25% insurance, but I made my investors whole.

Sometimes it is better to do what is best for those who have put trust in you than to do what is strictly best for yourself.

[Lethn]

Actually they changed the laws so that it is no longer your money any longer, but a debt that the bank owes to you. They do not fear "the run" so much since then.

Too bad for them that Bitcoin got invented then! LOL!

[KSV]

that is pretty shitty man. . . i feel u on this 1

[Namealreadyexists]

I did some research on setting up an account at the Bank of Cyprus, the bank that the good part of Laiki will supposedly be merged with. The least expensive option is 150 Euro a year in fees, plus 35 Euro shipping of the bank card, plus 200 Euro activation deposit. And, oh yeah, the daily withdrawal limit is still 300 Euro in cash, or 5000 charge.

These fees were last updated in June 2012, and apparently the banking crisis is not a good enough reason for them to change.

I wonder how many new accounts they've opened recently.

[wachtwoord]

I did some research on setting up an account at the Bank of Cyprus, the bank that the good part of Laiki will supposedly be merged with. The least expensive option is 150 Euro a year in fees, plus 35 Euro shipping of the bank card, plus 200 Euro activation deposit. And, oh yeah, the daily withdrawal limit is still 300 Euro in cash, or 5000 charge.

These fees were last updated in June 2012, and apparently the banking crisis is not a good enough reason for them to change.

I wonder how many new accounts they've opened recently.

Accounts? Do you think it's more than 1? 

[boltactionz]

And when you can figure out a way to legally short the taxman it becomes something really sexy...!  (And no, I'm not an accountant or a tax lawyer, LOL!)

Clearly.

Not paying taxes on barter is still illegal.  It might be easier to get away with though.
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

I know that not paying taxes on barter is not legal.  I'm sorry.  My post should have been clearer on that.  However, valuations can fluctuate with barter.  Is the chicken you are trading for a goat worth $1.50 or $3.75?  Or only 50 cents?

To see what I mean, Google "Eduardo Saverin defriends USA".

He moved to Singapore and then renounced US citizenship in the year prior to Facebook's IPO.  Because he could not yet sell his stocks on the open market, he got to choose a lower valuation than the IPO price of $38/share.  People went nuts because they couldn't see beyond his supposedly saving so many millions of dollars by giving the US the kiss-off.

Truth is, depending on his valuation back when he renounced he may have OVERPAID on his taxes even though everybody thought he was saving money.  And I haven't seen Facebook (NASDAQ:  FB) at $38/share since the day of the IPO, it tanked like a rock the first few days and weeks.  And when you renounce, you file one LAST tax return.  If you goof in your valuation you probably don't get to file a do-over in the form of an amendment. 

But that's Eddie Saverin.

Average Joe can choose his valuation in a barter, and as long as it's a reasonable one and he can justify it in case of an audit Joe will likely be fine.  Barter makes it a not-so-exact science.

Another interesting thing is, one can shop with junk silver and buy things for "way cheaper" because someone might prefer the pre-1965 silver quarters you have in your bag to paper bills or coins of today's US Mint and Federal Reserve.

If you buy a car and offer junk silver to the dealer, (s)he may just let you pay at a discount . . . based on the value of the silver content instead of the face value of the coins.  While it does not appear to be savings, when you go to register the car if the sales price is the face value of the coins it's a LOT lower than the silver value.  How does this help you?  If your vehicle registration fees are based on face value coin price, you pay less upon first registration and less every year thereafter.  Meanwhile the dealer who sold you the car can turn around and cash the junk silver in for the full value if (s)he desires . . . or keep it if (s)he thinks the value of silver will go up.

[Rygon]

To see what I mean, Google "Eduardo Saverin defriends USA".

Average Joe can choose his valuation in a barter, and as long as it's a reasonable one and he can justify it in case of an audit Joe will likely be fine.  Barter makes it a not-so-exact science.

Another interesting thing is, one can shop with junk silver and buy things for "way cheaper" because someone might prefer the pre-1965 silver quarters you have in your bag to paper bills or coins of today's US Mint and Federal Reserve.

If you buy a car and offer junk silver to the dealer, (s)he may just let you pay at a discount . . . based on the value of the silver content instead of the face value of the coins.  While it does not appear to be savings, when you go to register the car if the sales price is the face value of the coins it's a LOT lower than the silver value.  How does this help you?  If your vehicle registration fees are based on face value coin price, you pay less upon first registration and less every year thereafter.  Meanwhile the dealer who sold you the car can turn around and cash the junk silver in for the full value if (s)he desires . . . or keep it if (s)he thinks the value of silver will go up.

Technicall, yes, because silver coins (and silver/gold eagles) are considered legal currency. However, to the best of my knowledge, no one has tested out that particular strategy to see if it holds up in a federal court against the IRS. I think the IRS would definitely fight it, and mostly likely win, based on an argument that the car dealer was clearly accepting the coins for their intrinsic value instead of face value.

[wachtwoord]

To see what I mean, Google "Eduardo Saverin defriends USA".

Average Joe can choose his valuation in a barter, and as long as it's a reasonable one and he can justify it in case of an audit Joe will likely be fine.  Barter makes it a not-so-exact science.

Another interesting thing is, one can shop with junk silver and buy things for "way cheaper" because someone might prefer the pre-1965 silver quarters you have in your bag to paper bills or coins of today's US Mint and Federal Reserve.

If you buy a car and offer junk silver to the dealer, (s)he may just let you pay at a discount . . . based on the value of the silver content instead of the face value of the coins.  While it does not appear to be savings, when you go to register the car if the sales price is the face value of the coins it's a LOT lower than the silver value.  How does this help you?  If your vehicle registration fees are based on face value coin price, you pay less upon first registration and less every year thereafter.  Meanwhile the dealer who sold you the car can turn around and cash the junk silver in for the full value if (s)he desires . . . or keep it if (s)he thinks the value of silver will go up.

Technicall, yes, because silver coins (and silver/gold eagles) are considered legal currency. However, to the best of my knowledge, no one has tested out that particular strategy to see if it holds up in a federal court against the IRS. I think the IRS would definitely fight it, and mostly likely win, based on an argument that the car dealer was clearly accepting the coins for their intrinsic value instead of face value.

I agree. Although Americans do like to settle a lot so may be there is some benefit to be had.

[Bogdan]

You should do something about that. Have you spoken to anybody responsible for it who can put it back?

[Viscera]

lot's of love for bitcoiners

[600watt]

i will show this thread to anyone that expresses doubts that bitcoin is an important technology that can save YOUR ASS.

man, i run a business myself. what they did is i n c r e d i b l e.

in the news here they only talked about some 10 % "tax".


"bail in" is the new way to go. all kind of countries have put up new legislation to legalize "bail in"

tuur tells it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LQu-eIOO0

[AndreasMet]

I'm sorry for you.  I have been in a similar position in the past and can feel your pain.

My bank held a large sum of money that they required as a 'reserve' for payment processing.  When the business was 'shut down' they held the reserve.  It was the most stress I ever endured because I had debts equal to what they held.

Fortunately 180 days later the funds were released.  I hope this is how it goes for you.

My only piece of advice is to keep all of your business documents up to date and in perfect order.  You don't want the bank to claim your business is no longer valid so they have some excuse not to pay you.  This may not apply to you, or you may have already thought of this.

Finally, once you deal with large banks for a while you truly learn how sleazy these 'legitimate' businesses are.  But we already knew that...

Good luck.

[LiteCoinGuy]

sorry for that.

i would love to leave the EU. i never thought that it would become a monster like this....