My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[Carlton Banks]

Zeroday since your from Cyprus and your account was robbed by Laike Bank I would like to hear your opinion on Neo @ Bee for Cypriots.
Seems like an interesting development and a great place to start bitcoin adoption.

Just some background info

Neo offers Cypriot residents depository and financial services. Customers can open demand deposit, savings, business, and merchant accounts. Though all customer deposits are held in full reserve in Bitcoin, many customers will use Euro-pegged accounts, allowing them to interact with their money like they would with Euro deposits at any traditional bank.  Accounts will also be available that offer full exposure to the Bitcoin price level. Regardless of which currency they bank in primarily, all customers can seamlessly deposit, withdraw, or transfer either Bitcoin or Euros. Neo simplifies Bitcoin usage, to enable simple, easy transfers without requiring understanding of the complex technology.  Neo will comply with all applicable financial and banking laws and regulations.  The Flagship Branch and second branch are both planned to open in February 2014.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.0

I've taken a look at this thread, and the bank is heavily dependent on the future success of the BTC exchange rate. They argue that a combination of new deposits into the bank re-directed at the BTC market, as well as their reserve funds, will all cover the risk, but it sounds like a gamble to me. Think carefully about this sort of model and the risks it carries.

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[zeroday]

Got some interesting news from my colleagues in Spain.

They confirmed that Spanish banks instructed to freeze any account which receives incoming transfer from Cyprus.
Another European countries may have similar practice.

Looks like EURO hold in Cyprus is "tainted" and is not welcomed in many European countries.

[cr1776]

Wow.  So there are two (or more) types of Euros now.  So much for a single currency!  It seems difficult to believe that this can last over the long term, but perhaps because Cyprus is relatively smaller than say Germany, it can be done.

Got some interesting news from my colleagues in Spain.

They confirmed that Spanish banks instructed to freeze any account which receives incoming transfer from Cyprus.
Another European countries may have similar practice.

Looks like EURO hold in Cyprus is "tainted" and is not welcomed in many European countries.

[wachtwoord]

Wow.  So there are two (or more) types of Euros now.  So much for a single currency!  It seems difficult to believe that this can last over the long term, but perhaps because Cyprus is relatively smaller than say Germany, it can be done.

Got some interesting news from my colleagues in Spain.

They confirmed that Spanish banks instructed to freeze any account which receives incoming transfer from Cyprus.
Another European countries may have similar practice.

Looks like EURO hold in Cyprus is "tainted" and is not welcomed in many European countries.

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

[ronimacarroni]

The fight isn't between the left and the right, but the free and the ones who want to control and enslave them by hook or by crook. 

please refer to the diagram

[zeroday]

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad.
Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse).

[cr1776]

Hi,
As long as we're asking, can people purchase things from overseas without running afoul of the capital controls?  e.g. a new server, ASIC miner, 70 inch plasma TV, new car?  I'm just curious how trade hasn't completely stopped given the capital controls. 

I'm sure everyone here feels for you.

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad.
Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse).

[freedomno1]

Zeroday since your from Cyprus and your account was robbed by Laike Bank I would like to hear your opinion on Neo @ Bee for Cypriots.
Seems like an interesting development and a great place to start bitcoin adoption.

Just some background info

Neo offers Cypriot residents depository and financial services. Customers can open demand deposit, savings, business, and merchant accounts. Though all customer deposits are held in full reserve in Bitcoin, many customers will use Euro-pegged accounts, allowing them to interact with their money like they would with Euro deposits at any traditional bank.  Accounts will also be available that offer full exposure to the Bitcoin price level. Regardless of which currency they bank in primarily, all customers can seamlessly deposit, withdraw, or transfer either Bitcoin or Euros. Neo simplifies Bitcoin usage, to enable simple, easy transfers without requiring understanding of the complex technology.  Neo will comply with all applicable financial and banking laws and regulations.  The Flagship Branch and second branch are both planned to open in February 2014.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.0

I've taken a look at this thread, and the bank is heavily dependent on the future success of the BTC exchange rate. They argue that a combination of new deposits into the bank re-directed at the BTC market, as well as their reserve funds, will all cover the risk, but it sounds like a gamble to me. Think carefully about this sort of model and the risks it carries.

Thanks for the reply was looking to Zeroday but yours is nice as well
Considering Zero has gotten out of the Cyprus fiasco altogether just wanted an honest opinion on it.
That said you should post in the security thread we don't bite much XD (_{except in labcoin where ponies rule} )

[zeroday]

Hi,
As long as we're asking, can people purchase things from overseas without running afoul of the capital controls?  e.g. a new server, ASIC miner, 70 inch plasma TV, new car?  I'm just curious how trade hasn't completely stopped given the capital controls. 

Some extractions from Capital control "Decree":

Code:

 - The maximum amount of cash withdrawal shall not exceed €300 daily, per natural person or €500 daily per legal person...
 - €3.000 of cash per natural person can be taken abroad. It should be emphasised that the €3.000 should be withdrawn via the daily limit of €300.
 - The cashing of cheques is prohibited.
 - Cashless payment or transfer of deposits/funds to accounts held in other credit institutions within the Republic up to €15.000 per month per natural person.
 - Cashless payment or transfer of deposits/funds to accounts held in other credit institutions within the Republic for the purchase of goods and or services up to €300.000, per transaction
 - Allowed transfers of deposits/funds outside the Republic up to €5.000 per month, per person for each credit institution and or payment institution regardless of the purpose.

Here is full translation of Capital Control Decree:
https://www.laiki.com/EN/TheBank/Documents/Decree19EN.pdf

Here is FAQ and comments:
http://www.centralbank.gov.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=12583&lang=en

[wachtwoord]

Hi,
As long as we're asking, can people purchase things from overseas without running afoul of the capital controls?  e.g. a new server, ASIC miner, 70 inch plasma TV, new car?  I'm just curious how trade hasn't completely stopped given the capital controls. 

Some extractions from Capital control "Decree":

Code:

 - The maximum amount of cash withdrawal shall not exceed €300 daily, per natural person or €500 daily per legal person...
 - €3.000 of cash per natural person can be taken abroad. It should be emphasised that the €3.000 should be withdrawn via the daily limit of €300.
 - The cashing of cheques is prohibited.
 - Cashless payment or transfer of deposits/funds to accounts held in other credit institutions within the Republic up to €15.000 per month per natural person.
 - Cashless payment or transfer of deposits/funds to accounts held in other credit institutions within the Republic for the purchase of goods and or services up to €300.000, per transaction
 - Allowed transfers of deposits/funds outside the Republic up to €5.000 per month, per person for each credit institution and or payment institution regardless of the purpose.

Here is full translation of Capital Control Decree:
https://www.laiki.com/EN/TheBank/Documents/Decree19EN.pdf

Here is FAQ and comments:
http://www.centralbank.gov.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=12583&lang=en

This sounds like money smuggling can be a real business in Cyprus now. Some organized gang should offer to buy Cyprus cash for less then face value in either fiat currency abroad or Bitcoins (or goods) and smuggle everything out by boat. I doubt Cyprus is rich enough to do proper patrolling. To be sure, go with a lot of guys and be armed to the teeth (the Italian mafia is rather close).

[zeroday]

This sounds like money smuggling can be a real business in Cyprus now. Some organized gang should offer to buy Cyprus cash for less then face value in either fiat currency abroad or Bitcoins (or goods) and smuggle everything out by boat. I doubt Cyprus is rich enough to do proper patrolling. To be sure, go with a lot of guys and be armed to the teeth (the Italian mafia is rather close).

Exactly, there are many offers for you money to escape Cyprus banking jail for 10-15%
But these offers does not work for amounts over 100k which were expropriated in March because that money are just lost.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad.
Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse).

sad. and others in europe will follow. 

[BitAddict]

This sounds like money smuggling can be a real business in Cyprus now. Some organized gang should offer to buy Cyprus cash for less then face value in either fiat currency abroad or Bitcoins (or goods) and smuggle everything out by boat. I doubt Cyprus is rich enough to do proper patrolling. To be sure, go with a lot of guys and be armed to the teeth (the Italian mafia is rather close).

Exactly, there are many offers for you money to escape Cyprus banking jail for 10-15%
But these offers does not work for amounts over 100k which were expropriated in March because that money are just lost.

wow there is getting ridiculous :/

I have no doubt in Spain we will follow soon... sad but true.

[leopard2]

This sounds like money smuggling can be a real business in Cyprus now. Some organized gang should offer to buy Cyprus cash for less then face value in either fiat currency abroad or Bitcoins (or goods) and smuggle everything out by boat. I doubt Cyprus is rich enough to do proper patrolling. To be sure, go with a lot of guys and be armed to the teeth (the Italian mafia is rather close).

Exactly, there are many offers for you money to escape Cyprus banking jail for 10-15%
But these offers does not work for amounts over 100k which were expropriated in March because that money are just lost.

can you not buy gold from your bank or from a dealer in Cyprus, that would be an intra-country transfer?

[infested999]

This sounds like money smuggling can be a real business in Cyprus now. Some organized gang should offer to buy Cyprus cash for less then face value in either fiat currency abroad or Bitcoins (or goods) and smuggle everything out by boat. I doubt Cyprus is rich enough to do proper patrolling. To be sure, go with a lot of guys and be armed to the teeth (the Italian mafia is rather close).

Exactly, there are many offers for you money to escape Cyprus banking jail for 10-15%
But these offers does not work for amounts over 100k which were expropriated in March because that money are just lost.

can you not buy gold from your bank or from a dealer in Cyprus, that would be an intra-country transfer?

But you can't export gold.

[wachtwoord]

This sounds like money smuggling can be a real business in Cyprus now. Some organized gang should offer to buy Cyprus cash for less then face value in either fiat currency abroad or Bitcoins (or goods) and smuggle everything out by boat. I doubt Cyprus is rich enough to do proper patrolling. To be sure, go with a lot of guys and be armed to the teeth (the Italian mafia is rather close).

Exactly, there are many offers for you money to escape Cyprus banking jail for 10-15%
But these offers does not work for amounts over 100k which were expropriated in March because that money are just lost.

can you not buy gold from your bank or from a dealer in Cyprus, that would be an intra-country transfer?

But you can't export gold.

It's called smuggling.

[tinus42]

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad.
Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse).

sad. and others in europe will follow. 

In Belgium cash payments above 3000 euro's are already forbidden.

[wachtwoord]

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad.
Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse).

sad. and others in europe will follow. 

In Belgium cash payments above 3000 euro's are already forbidden.

Brilliant. Let them make their Monopoly money even less appealing. They're playing right into our hands 

[BitAddict]

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad.
Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse).

sad. and others in europe will follow. 

In Belgium cash payments above 3000 euro's are already forbidden.

In Spain is worse, you can pay only up to 2,500€

[molecular]

Are the cash withdrawal limit waves already? If so, it's not that hard to get the cash out. If this is true I'd advise anyone to do this ....

Capital control is still enforced. ATM limits are the same. From personal account you cannot withdraw more than 300 EUR daily. 5000 EUR is maximum monthly allowance for transfers abroad.
Business accounts can transfer more but every wire to be approved by bank (and they often refuse).

sad. and others in europe will follow. 

In Belgium cash payments above 3000 euro's are already forbidden.

In Spain is worse, you can pay only up to 2,500€

Can one not pay his taxes in cash?