My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[Lohoris]

Union itself is a very good thing.
Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

a super-state is not needed to be free, quite the opposite.
idiots

First, fuck off asshole.

That being said, you're half right.
What is needed is a super-state with some basic rule and great decentralization, so that there is some common ground and you can travel freely without risking overstapping on some retarded rule some idiot is enforcing in his little province.

[1715291333]

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[1715291333]

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[Lohoris]

Yep.  Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

(while this is much fun...)

It's 51% of people telling the other 49% what to do.

By definition, this is not democracy.
Democracy implies you have a constitution which exists exactly to prevent this problem.
If some so-called democracy does what you describe, it is not a democracy at all, i.e. it is either violating its own costitution, or has a fake useless constitution in the first place.

[wachtwoord]

Yep.  Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

(while this is much fun...)

It's 51% of people telling the other 49% what to do.

By definition, this is not democracy.
Democracy implies you have a constitution which exists exactly to prevent this problem.
If some so-called democracy does what you describe, it is not a democracy at all, i.e. it is either violating its own costitution, or has a fake useless constitution in the first place.

Constitutions are changed often based on a majority vote.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Yep.  Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

(while this is much fun...)

It's 51% of people telling the other 49% what to do.

By definition, this is not democracy.
Democracy implies you have a constitution which exists exactly to prevent this problem.
If some so-called democracy does what you describe, it is not a democracy at all, i.e. it is either violating its own costitution, or has a fake useless constitution in the first place.

yeah, constitutions worked marvels all the time everywhere as anyone can see.
it's just a matter of scale: the bigger the political unit and the bigger the troubles that it procures to its subjects in every time and place.
Luckily what is not sustainable won't be sustained for long, since if all depended just on the wisdom of the sheeple we would be really fuck'd for eternity.

[Lohoris]

Constitutions are changed often based on a majority vote.

Not with a simple majority of course, usually it's much harder to change a constitution.
(or, again, it falls back on the "it's not really a constitution" clause, as hinted before)

yeah, constitutions worked marvels all the time everywhere as anyone can see.
it's just a matter of scale: the bigger the political unit and the bigger the troubles that it procures to its subjects in every time and place.
Luckily what is not sustainable won't be sustained for long, since if all depended just on the wisdom of the sheeple we would be really fuck'd for eternity.

Sure, I wasn't implying they work, they don't, I was just stating that unless they do, you can't call it Democracy.
BTW I fear you're too optimistinc about not being sustainable, I fear that they will manage to enslave everyone indefinitely unless they are overthrown.

[Behemot]

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

We can have that without your comrades. Ever heard about Schengen? Free trade asotiations? Switzerland is part of both without being in the EU. TOgether with constitutional limits on government spendiand and tax high, they are one of the best economcis in Europe in last century despite world wars and crises.

Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

No, it is not bug as you are implying. It is feature of the system. Refer to http://youtu.be/RILDjo4EXV8?t=13m15s

[wachtwoord]

Constitutions are changed often based on a majority vote.

Not with a simple majority of course, usually it's much harder to change a constitution.
(or, again, it falls back on the "it's not really a constitution" clause, as hinted before)

Uhm, sure you need 75% here I think. So 75% will steal from 25% much better.

Democracy with a majority model is just a completely flawed model.

[Behemot]

Democracy with a majority model is just a completely flawed model.

Or with general vote right.

Anyway, even if there is something in constitution, you can fuck with that in many ways.

For example here, we have the basic right not to testify if you can harm you or somebody close to you. They fucked with that regarding traffic ofenses the way basicaly the owner of the vehicle is responsible and he can choose to not testify who drove the car but than he is responsible and pays a fine. So basically you pay for using the right to not testify. Nice, isn't it?

[cr1776]

And now the IMF is floating a similar idea worldwide, more is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=357073.0

But this is the important paragraph.  Cyprus style confiscation, coming to your account, around the world:

As applied to the euro zone, the IMF claims that a 10% levy on households' positive net worth would bring public debt levels back to pre-financial crisis levels. Such a tax sounds crazy, but recall what happened in euro-zone country Cyprus this year: Holders of bank accounts larger than 100,000 euros had to incur losses of up to 100% on their savings above that threshold, in order to "bail-in" the bankrupt Mediterranean state. Japanese households, sitting on one of the world's largest pools of savings, have particular reason to worry about their assets: At 240% of GDP, their country's public debt ratio is more than twice that of Cyprus when it defaulted

.

[eindbaas]

How is this even possible I'm pretty shocked.

[marcus_of_augustus]

How is this even possible I'm pretty shocked.

The world's fucked up heavily communistic monetary/economic thinking is playing out to its inevitable absurd ending .... and the silence from the halls of economic academia is deafening.

[conspirosphere.tk]

this is the main source of bitcoin's sex appeal imho.
nothing better than the terror of expropriation to pump up the price to ridiculous heights.
so this is mostly a fear-feeded market, and there is nothing better in mass societies of sheeps.

[darkmule]

I don't think they've thought this through.  This could lead to a disastrous exodus from the banks (well disastrous for the banks anyway) as people fled savings accounts.

[cr1776]

I don't think they've thought this through.  This could lead to a disastrous exodus from the banks (well disastrous for the banks anyway) as people fled savings accounts.

You are right, but I don't think they care. Their redistributionist policies are running out of time and victims.  They've destroyed the euro, the dollar and other currencies and are killing the productive members of society. What is left?

And to make it worse, this only puts them back to 2008 levels, it solves nothing.

[emilia79]

Don't forget Cyprus/malta still are fiscal paradise.

ECB just put its finger where it hursts !

[techstorm2]

Why to blame EU? They created a blueprint of Laiki's "restructuring" plan and then forced Cyprus government to follow it under the threat of default and leaving eurozone.

I dont know why cyprus didnt do what Iceland did and tell creditors to FxxK off and not pay back. They would be in better shape within a couple of years instead of this long slow death and robbing citizens of their hard earned money.

[emilia79]

Cyprus is in the EU
Iceland is not, mostly because they revamped the deals with some investors.

And dutch and UK are opposed to the inclusion of Iceland into EU.

[jones31]

Cyprus is in the EU
Iceland is not, mostly because they revamped the deals with some investors.

And dutch and UK are opposed to the inclusion of Iceland into EU.

Uk is against everything in the EU.
I don't understand why they are here in the first place. All they do is keep on arguing against everything.

[joesmoe2012]

Isn't slovenia up for a bailin next?

[Sharky444]

The idea to rob the bank account originated in Cyprus. I don't get it why the OP is blaming the European Commission.