My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[Kluge]

Or you could move to the USA, sit on your couch all day, and wait for that government check. Im sure you could get citizenship in a couple weeks if you complained enough too. The banks are crooked, but they wont lose your money. 

Cash assistance cuts out pretty quick in most states (~2-5 years per lifetime), citizenship is nearly impossible without loads of money and/or an employment contract as a skilled worker, and US banks lose money all the time (but are bailed out either by the FDIC, NCUA, or Fed).

[An amorous cow-herder]

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

Mt.Gox goes bankrupt after theft. Bitcoin User Not Affected ... oh, wait.

[cr1776]

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

Mt.Gox goes bankrupt after theft. Bitcoin User Not Affected ... oh, wait.

If you don't have the private keys, you are not a bitcoin user.  You are a creditor to someone else and own no bitcoins, you just own IOUs.

[An amorous cow-herder]

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

Mt.Gox goes bankrupt after theft. Bitcoin User Not Affected ... oh, wait.

If you don't have the private keys, you are not a bitcoin user.  You are a creditor to someone else and own no bitcoins, you just own IOUs.

Yeah, right. And if you dont have all your gold and cash hidden in your room you arent a "gold or fiat user". Yeah, thats gonna be safe .. oh, wait. Wouldnt really be a difference if there had been a piece of paper with a couple of numbers on it found as well.

[cr1776]

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

Mt.Gox goes bankrupt after theft. Bitcoin User Not Affected ... oh, wait.

If you don't have the private keys, you are not a bitcoin user.  You are a creditor to someone else and own no bitcoins, you just own IOUs.

Yeah, right. And if you dont have all your gold and cash hidden in your room you arent a "gold or fiat user". Yeah, thats gonna be safe .. oh, wait. Wouldnt really be a difference if there had been a piece of paper with a couple of numbers on it found as well.

Just because you don't want to deal with reality does not make it untrue. You are not a bitcoin owner if you don't have your keys, you are a creditor to someone else.  Period.  You don't own bitcoin without the keys.

If one is too incompetent to manage the security of your private keys, then perhaps one should just put one's money in a bank and let someone else manage it for them and have it subject to haircuts, bail-ins capital controls, exchange controls and the like. Zeroday knows the difference which is the point of this thread.

That is one place where bitcoin is different, I'm sorry you aren't aware of this feature of bitcoin.

There are things like bip38, brain wallets (often a bad idea) and others where it would have been much different than the story you linked to.

[tinus42]

This thread is now a year old. The first post was made on March 28, 2013, 08:00:15 PM, one year and one and a half hour ago.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.msg1694092#msg1694092

Did OP ever get any of his money back?

[spazzdla]

and now they're about to do it again, in ukraine. it's already written in to law in a good few other countries, too.

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

This thread is nearly a year old. OP was made on 28 March last year. And what has changed? Nothing...

Things like this take time, most people are too stupid to understand things that are going on around them. Until it hits them personally.

Once enough people are feeling the pain of being ass-raped by the banks and governments, they will look for a solution. That solution will be either gold, silver, or bitcoin. Most likely all 3 of them (some persons get bitcoin, some get gold, some get silver, some get a combination).

This, people are so stupid it actually is hard to believe.  People will refuse to believe their countries paper money could ever fail until it's toilet paper.   Not a single of my IRL friends think it is possible for the CAD to fail...

[cococoin]

IMHO the 700k is blocked as the 128k plus-some are the part that won't be touched.
you will not lose all the 700k, "only" couple of percent.

stop cryin, that's just TAX EVASION catching up to you.

What makes you think that this person will only lose a couple of percent of the 700k? It seems like they have lost all that money so far.


And Tax Evasion, which I don't think this is shouldn't be wrong. If you can go somewhere else and get cheaper taxes then why shouldn't you be allowed to do this?

[boltactionz]

and now they're about to do it again, in ukraine. it's already written in to law in a good few other countries, too.

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

This thread is nearly a year old. OP was made on 28 March last year. And what has changed? Nothing...

One thing that's changed is the price of Bitcoin.

Wasn't it around $228 USD about this time last year?  Even though it appears to be trending downward from a high north of  . . . was it $1,100 ? . . . it's still at $450+ USD right now.  Don't know if it will stay there or go back to $228 and even below, but that's just about a 100% return year over year.  

Of course that could change.  Past performance is no guarantee and all.  

And it would surely suck to be one of those who bought in at $1,100 and decided to hold onto it for the long haul.

But I look at Bitcoin differently.  I don't think of it as a store of value so much as a method of safely moving money across borders when one travels.  Especially if you travel to Argentina and elsewhere with major inflation problems right now.  People buy and sell in Bitcoin in Argentina because nobody wants to be stuck holding the local currency that's falling down, not just trending down.

The true usefulness of Bitcoin is when you are traveling or moving from one country to another.  YOU move, but your money Bitcoin doesn't have to move with you.  And yet you don't have to worry about border guards trying to lift it from you, seize it, claim you are a smuggler, or any of that other stuff that happens with cash above a certain amount or with gold . . . like that guy who got stuck in Mexico some time back trying to move his gold down to Panama and did not make it all the way there.  Brain wallets might work, and also Wuala or Mega definitely work for holding the details of what you need in order to convert to the local currency upon your arrival.

Try traveling and taking your gold - either bullion or coins - with you.  It's just not the same, just not that easy.  Especially when you compare it to "moving" Bitcoin.

And if you are relocating, after converting to the local fiat, you're free to convert the local stuff to gold and/or silver or whatever else you might want . . . until your next move.

[Fabrizio89]

Feels like Italy could be next in a matter of months (I'm italian, saying this listening to how some news about fiscal compact were presented)

[marcus_of_augustus]

Feels like Italy could be next in a matter of months (I'm italian, saying this listening to how some news about fiscal compact were presented)

Do you have any good links or sources to read about this? I'm amazed they have been able to paper over their massive structural problems as long as they have.

That whole thing with Monte dei Paschi di Siena and ECB head Mario Draghi stinks to all hell.

[bobdutica]

and now they're about to do it again, in ukraine. it's already written in to law in a good few other countries, too.

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

This thread is nearly a year old. OP was made on 28 March last year. And what has changed? Nothing...

One thing that's changed is the price of Bitcoin.

Wasn't it around $228 USD about this time last year?  Even though it appears to be trending downward from a high north of  . . . was it $1,100 ? . . . it's still at $450+ USD right now.  Don't know if it will stay there or go back to $228 and even below, but that's just about a 100% return year over year.  

Of course that could change.  Past performance is no guarantee and all.  

And it would surely suck to be one of those who bought in at $1,100 and decided to hold onto it for the long haul.

But I look at Bitcoin differently.  I don't think of it as a store of value so much as a method of safely moving money across borders when one travels.  Especially if you travel to Argentina and elsewhere with major inflation problems right now.  People buy and sell in Bitcoin in Argentina because nobody wants to be stuck holding the local currency that's falling down, not just trending down.

The true usefulness of Bitcoin is when you are traveling or moving from one country to another.  YOU move, but your money Bitcoin doesn't have to move with you.  And yet you don't have to worry about border guards trying to lift it from you, seize it, claim you are a smuggler, or any of that other stuff that happens with cash above a certain amount or with gold . . . like that guy who got stuck in Mexico some time back trying to move his gold down to Panama and did not make it all the way there.  Brain wallets might work, and also Wuala or Mega definitely work for holding the details of what you need in order to convert to the local currency upon your arrival.

Try traveling and taking your gold - either bullion or coins - with you.  It's just not the same, just not that easy.  Especially when you compare it to "moving" Bitcoin.

And if you are relocating, after converting to the local fiat, you're free to convert the local stuff to gold and/or silver or whatever else you might want . . . until your next move.

Right, that is one of the best features of Bitcoin. Just make sure you don't wear a Bitcoin T-shirt or carry a bunch of Bitcoin novelty pins, or you will likely have to put up with a hassle. Consider this humorous story.

[boltactionz]

Right, that is one of the best features of Bitcoin. Just make sure you don't wear a Bitcoin T-shirt or carry a bunch of Bitcoin novelty pins, or you will likely have to put up with a hassle. Consider this humorous story.

Thanks for that funny link!

Leave it to TSA to be calling Bitcoin "tokens in the bag," LOL.

And talking about "mission creep" . . . Good grief!

[Pocatello]

Wow, that's just insane!

When Goldman Sucks wants to make money, they just give a call to S&P, Moodys, Fitch etc. to rate the credit-worthiness of a country down, interests rise untill they are unapayable for the country, and Draghi (Ex-Goldman Sachs employee and President of the ECB) prints new money and with the ESM and EFSF the rest of the Euro countries pay the depts directly to the creditors.

(of course the mainstream media states, the stronger EU countries rescued the bankrupt country and are now in position to impose economical sanctions, making people rush against each other, but actually the only thing they did is bailing out their own banks out of the risky credits)

It's just so easy to get peoples money, just inflate the depts away and steal 10% of their money every year.

[im3w1l]

and now they're about to do it again, in ukraine. it's already written in to law in a good few other countries, too.

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

This thread is nearly a year old. OP was made on 28 March last year. And what has changed? Nothing...

Things like this take time, most people are too stupid to understand things that are going on around them. Until it hits them personally.

Once enough people are feeling the pain of being ass-raped by the banks and governments, they will look for a solution. That solution will be either gold, silver, or bitcoin. Most likely all 3 of them (some persons get bitcoin, some get gold, some get silver, some get a combination).

This, people are so stupid it actually is hard to believe.  People will refuse to believe their countries paper money could ever fail until it's toilet paper.   Not a single of my IRL friends think it is possible for the CAD to fail...

Psychological research has shown that this problem can be solved by stories. Stupid people refuse to believe things unless they either a) hear a story or b) can imagine a story themselves of how it would happen.

Since they are incapable of imagining it themselves, they duty of telling the story falls on you. So do it. Telling a story could be interesting for you too.

[wachtwoord]

and now they're about to do it again, in ukraine. it's already written in to law in a good few other countries, too.

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

This thread is nearly a year old. OP was made on 28 March last year. And what has changed? Nothing...

What changed is that OP no longer will do business in Cyprus. And probably it will not just be OP. That's all it takes, one person opting out at a time, eroding the crappy system that exists away. Oh and the people opting out are top-heavy towards the top of our society (wrt intelligence and wealth) speeding up the erosion process.

[Peter R]

Here we go again. I can see it now... That 'Bitcoin User Not Affected' meme will be making a comeback.

Mt.Gox goes bankrupt after theft. Bitcoin User Not Affected ... oh, wait.

If you don't have the private keys, you are not a bitcoin user.  You are a creditor to someone else and own no bitcoins, you just own IOUs.

Yeah, right. And if you dont have all your gold and cash hidden in your room you arent a "gold or fiat user". Yeah, thats gonna be safe .. oh, wait. Wouldnt really be a difference if there had been a piece of paper with a couple of numbers on it found as well.

Just because you don't want to deal with reality does not make it untrue. You are not a bitcoin owner if you don't have your keys, you are a creditor to someone else.  Period.  You don't own bitcoin without the keys.

I completely agree with what you are trying to say, cr1776.  But I think the Amorous Cow-Herder is confused by the word "own."  What does it actually mean to "own" something?

I think it is more accurate to say:

"If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins."

It is obvious to a 5 year old what it means to have something.  It is still confusing to me in my 30s what it means to own something.
 

[marcus_of_augustus]

I completely agree with what you are trying to say, cr1776.  But I think the Amorous Cow-Herder is confused by the word "own."  What does it actually mean to "own" something?

I think it is more accurate to say:

"If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins."

It is obvious to a 5 year old what it means to have something.  It is still confusing to me in my 30s what it means to own something.

Ownership has been well defined in legal terms for a long time ... you need to have

- knowledge of the existence of the thing
- possession of the thing
- control of the thing

of a thing to legally own it.

Without all these three things you do not "own" something.

[organofcorti]

I completely agree with what you are trying to say, cr1776.  But I think the Amorous Cow-Herder is confused by the word "own."  What does it actually mean to "own" something?

I think it is more accurate to say:

"If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins."

It is obvious to a 5 year old what it means to have something.  It is still confusing to me in my 30s what it means to own something.

Ownership has been well defined in legal terms for a long time ... you need to have

- knowledge of the existence of the thing
- possession of the thing
- control of the thing

of a thing to legally own it.

Without all these three things you do not "own" something.

If you have complete control of something, what does possession matter?

[marcus_of_augustus]

I completely agree with what you are trying to say, cr1776.  But I think the Amorous Cow-Herder is confused by the word "own."  What does it actually mean to "own" something?

I think it is more accurate to say:

"If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins."

It is obvious to a 5 year old what it means to have something.  It is still confusing to me in my 30s what it means to own something.

Ownership has been well defined in legal terms for a long time ... you need to have

- knowledge of the existence of the thing
- possession of the thing
- control of the thing

of a thing to legally own it.

Without all these three things you do not "own" something.

If you have complete control of something, what does possession matter?

Well I think in some cases you might imagine having possession but not control .... e.g. not allowed to legally transfer that boat in your backyard because a lien has been slapped on it by your disgruntled ex-wife. Of course, there are probably many cases where the distinctions are subtle but important. If someone else has possession of your gold in a vault that is the classic 3rd party risk scenario ...