Offering PayPal for Bitcoin? You're likely to be labeled a scammer - Read why

[de_xt]

If you sell with PayPal, they will catch you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194646.0

Wow, I didn't know this. Does the same restriction apply to other online payment systems such as OkPay?

[1714646096]

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[1714646096]

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[MiningUnited]

Can you sell services via ebay/paypal?

Yes, you can have a buyer pay you for a service such as "cutting the grass". The payment must be noted as a service and the details must be included in the transaction notes/info. When PayPal reviews the case, they take this into account. They actually have Seller protection too.

Where the only thing sold is work done?

You could pay for a programmer who writes code.

Aren't bitcoins evidence of work done?

No, PayPal doesn't look at the Block Chain or anything. Since it is a violation of their policy - it doesn't matter.

[eddyfitz]

If you sell with PayPal, they will catch you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194646.0

Wow, I didn't know this. Does the same restriction apply to other online payment systems such as OkPay?

I guess yes, since they may have problems with taxation

[lilac718]

Aren't bitcoins evidence of work done?

[lostatsea]

Thanks for posting this.  Seems like buying local is the way to go.  Any suggestions on how to meet in person to buy?   Any smartphone apps that can be used when meeting in person that one could suggest using?

[MiningUnited]

Aren't bitcoins evidence of work done?

No, not at all.

[Illimensky]

Thanks for posting this.  Seems like buying local is the way to go.  Any suggestions on how to meet in person to buy?   Any smartphone apps that can be used when meeting in person that one could suggest using?

It seems like you can buy physical bitcoins, and then exchange those in person.  https://www.casascius.com/ offers physical bitcoins (might be sketchy, as I haven't tried).

[bruffin1]

Paypal is a pain in the ass, i'm hoping alt coins and the likes stabilize and become the new way for transferring funds

[SilentFlute]

Aren't bitcoins evidence of work done?

No, not at all.

Yes they are, a pps/pplns pool awards btc for work done.

In fact the whole bitcoin concept is built on rewards for work done.

Unlike fiat currency which can just be printed/minted at will.

[1badbullitt]

PayPal definitely does not endorse the use of Bitcoin, They won't even offer their insurance on a Bitcoin purchase!

[koincollector]

Paypal is shit.

[hini]

Thanks for the info.

[MiningUnited]

This guy makes a living selling BitCoin through PayPal.

His method is how it can correctly be done:

http://www.BitCoinRanger.com

He notified PayPal in advance of what he was doing so that they would work with him, instead of flagging his account.

[Taccomc]

I made the mistake of using bitcoinranger.com and sending payment through Dwolla, that was over 2 weeks ago and I don't have my $250 in USD or Bitcoins.   Dwolla told me Greg Mathews has my funds, he is claiming its Dwolla's issue.   I won't  use either service again. 

[Speratom]

Ok Guys. I arrived at this topic a bit late which have costed me around 1500$

So I put BTC on eBay and it got sold within few hours. Buyer paid and his entire information was available with his phone #.

Did a google search and he have around 350+ feedback and confirmed his address. Paid him and every thing went well. he asked for 10 more and he said, he will send through Personal Payment. I read somewhere about scam and though Personal Payments cant be refunded.. But as soon as i sent him 10BTC on top of 1 BTC, he disputed and before i could even take any action, Money was refunded. also the eBay Transaction was disputed. Now i am power Seller /Top Rated seller on eBay and my transaction has got on hold.

I called them and they said, since it was not for purchase they cant do anything !  I called the police and they said, they do not deal with Cyber Crimes :S

I called the person and he got kinda confused and said he has not done anything. He has reported to FBI , Police and they are investing into that which is total crap. I have a tracker which told me that the email was opened from the same location the person is...

Interestingly I have contacts inside Paypal that can be used to investigate the issue. But since it is outside transaction I might be keeping it as last resort.

So I have all the proofs, found his entire info using google search and can buy further information. As of speaking he emailed me saying he has filed a case with FBI and my account has been locked out..

Should I start by telling him about the consequences and giving him sweet warning ?

Any Advises

Secondly, I just got two orders and received payment from them. Is it illegal to sell/purchase on eBay and if not then using eBay guidelines for virtual goods, can I be saved ? Or better I call and confirm ? I have seen few people shipping the paper with code on it. May be thats the reason for doing this ?

P.S If you are reading it, I am coming after you

Hi,

I totally know the feeling but the other way around. I am new to this and was looking for a couple of bitcoins. I like the idea of an online currency, I thought it would be cool to use it on websites and encourage this concept, and mining is beyond me after looking into everything under the sun. I am mining yacoins, wow, but I'll be damned if I manage to buy 1 bitcoin, leave alone an asics. Even got into Second Life but apparently it's not supported anymore.

Then a guy offered to sell some on a chat, (coinchat.org, that is probably a trap for you to register into coinlenders, probably another scam, I don;t know really but I go paranoid now) as soon as he got the money he went totally silent. He actually said "I am going to take a piss, then I send you your coin... (needless to say that this flies only when you are hiding behind your pc at home) I reported it to paypal, but now I have to wait a couple of days before I can escalate it. By that time the guy is long gone.

He gave me a verified paypal address so it looked legit. I was making a test with 40 bucks and lost that, but I could have lost much more had he sent over the first payment I would have gone for more. Thank god I only had to deal with a noobie scammer.

By the way for mining I found a guy that sell his spot with btf from April2012, that too looks like a scam now. Actually after that I really have the feeling that this bitcoin business is too cuthroat, I might be wrong, but so far I thought bitcoin to be the money of the online geeks in fact it turns out to be the money of the online crooks.

Websites go like flies mtgox, miningunites, some others offer crazy stuff like hedge funds in the Caiman Islands in bitcoins, talking a bout 75% ROI... donno, got burned, now I have cold feet.

So far ... very bad experience and ubernercenary behaviors, far worst than with our "real" money because you are not even able to look at people straight in the eyes.

This is the scamming email: peter.harris73@yahoo.com from Australia? or maybe lives nextdoor...

Sent to:Peter Harris (The recipient of this payment is Non-US – Verified)
Email:    peter.harris73@yahoo.com
Amount sent:-$38.00 AUD (equals -£25.33 GBP)
Fee amount:$0.00 AUD
Net amount:-$38.00 AUD

Same as above, Peter, no matter how much you think you are clever, you are a lowlife scumbag and I am coming after you.

[Speratom]

There have been an increasing number of posts from recently registered users wanting to buy bitcoins with PayPal. While new users may indeed be enthusiastic about Bitcoin and be accustomed to using PayPal for prior purchases, this type of request is also exactly what scammers do to steal bitcoins. It is relatively simple to charge back or dispute any PayPal payment after receiving irrevocable bitcoins, and scam purchases are used as a way to empty stolen PayPal accounts.

Traditional payment networks (including PayPal) suffer inherent weaknesses:

• Some payment fraud is unavoidable,
• Completely non-reversible transactions are not possible; payment processors are involved in disputes,
• Identity fraud and remote account takeover using stolen credentials are possible,
• Payment processors can block funds and freeze accounts,
• You must provide your credit card or account number to sites, which can be stolen by hackers to spend your money.

Bitcoin has none of these problems:

• Confirmed Bitcoin payments are absolutely trustable,
• Payments are non-reversible; money cannot be recalled by the sender,
• Identity theft is a non-issue - payment recipients don't need to obtain the identity of buyers or store personal information to take payments,
• Nobody else can interfere with your Bitcoin balance or your ability to send or receive money,
• You are in control of your money - when you send a payment, the recipient or hackers cannot make other fraudulent withdraws from your wallet.

Why is it difficult to purchase Bitcoins with your old-fashioned money?

If this is the fault of Bitcoin, it is because Bitcoin is too good. If you receive a payment with Bitcoin, you can be 100% sure that the money is yours and it can't be disputed or taken back out of your wallet. PayPal, Credit cards, ACH checking transfer and money wires, Chase Quickpay, Dwolla, and most any other banking payments, however, can be reversed - they are less trustworthy than the Bitcoins you are trying to buy.

This is why even Bitcoin exchanges have rigorous verification procedures - they need to verify your identity thoroughly, not because of Bitcoin, but because they are taking your government currency, transferred through banks and payment processors, which is fundamentally problematic. Exchanges that only deal with Bitcoin-based virtual currencies (such as Bitcoin to Namecoin) have no such identity requirements.

In addition, PayPal specifically disallows currency exchanges, and are Bitcoin-hostile. When you complain that you were ripped off, it's just as likely your account will be frozen.

Prohibited Activities

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

...

    relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, or (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities.

So how can you obtain bitcoins, if nobody on the Internet can tell the difference between you and a foreign crime syndicate? If you don't wish to go through the lengthy verification procedures on exchanges, I recommend you first investigate local traders who are willing to exchange bitcoins in person. Sites such as https://localbitcoins.com/ or http://www.tradebitcoin.com/ may help you find local Bitcoin users. Also, Bitcoin is for commerce - sell something and accept Bitcoin!

Fair enough, but some people actually buy stuff everyday and actually pay for it. I was done 40 bucks I paid with paypal for btc, and I doubt I'll eve see my money back, and I haven't seen a glimmer of btc. Now, according to "paypal" I have to wait until the 27 of May to be able to escalate, by that time the scammer, that I bet didn't have a single bitcoin, must have cashed out the money.

[Thrash]

Good post on why PayPal is not the answer.

[imaclick]

Isn't the risk of buying bitcoins with paypal the same risk as buying anything else with paypal?  What is considered to be the safest way to do this other than going to someone in person and making sure you get the cash in hand?

It's not the risk of buying bitcoins with paypal - it's the risk of selling bitcoins for paypal.  Example:  you sell me 1 bitcoin and I buy it by paying you $100 thru paypal.  Once I receive the bitcoin from you I file a dispute on paypal.  Paypal reverses the transaction and gives me back my $100.  Now I have 1 Bitcoin I didn't have to start with, and my $100 in my paypal account.  You on the other hand have lost 1 bitcoin and have no additional money in paypal.

using Paypal for a while, never noticed there's such a policy, thanks for reminding everyone here!

[blair]

Thanks for the useful info! I had no idea that Paypal could issue refunds even for cash gifts.

[gramma]

Speratom - you were wise to limit your exposure.  There are a lot of scammers hereabouts for sure, but there are also some good decent people, too. Helpful ones, even.  I recommend you lurk, a lot. Here's some very good advice: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119896.0

It's a PITA to convert fiat to BTC, but not impossible.  Getting cash into the exchanges is also a bit spendy with the fees, especially wiring fees.  But it's less spendy than losing a lot to scammers. Take heart that you lost relatively little compared to too many others.  That said, I hope you get your money back from the bastard.