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Author Topic: Offering PayPal for Bitcoin? You're likely to be labeled a scammer - Read why  (Read 27848 times)
SpaceCadet
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April 24, 2013, 08:55:32 PM
 #241

This is an extremely enlightening discussion! 

I had a case where I bought a high-cost item from a source in China (REDFLAG I ignored).  Paid with PayPal (using a credit card as it's source), but never got the item (they sent a bogus tracking number).  Complained to PayPal, but they did nothing, so went to the credit card company with all of the details and they refunded the money (I'm assuming leaving PayPal holding the bag).

Other than that, I've not had a bad experience with PayPal - for 'normal' purchases.  I have learned some things here!

Cheers!
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RHWN
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April 28, 2013, 06:08:39 PM
 #242

Good post #1! Was good to read Smiley
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April 30, 2013, 01:31:24 AM
 #243

Considering the fundamental mismatch in formats, why do you think the CEO in an interview implied that Paypal may get involved with bitcoins some day down the road.
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April 30, 2013, 01:53:14 AM
 #244

even with tradecoin and localbitcoin is best you meet the person face to face while doing a transaction, do not trust any local seller because they will ask you to bank in the money and you will never hear from them, to many scammer and scumbag around.
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May 01, 2013, 05:38:40 AM
 #245

Ok Guys. I arrived at this topic a bit late which have costed me around 1500$

So I put BTC on eBay and it got sold within few hours. Buyer paid and his entire information was available with his phone #.

Did a google search and he have around 350+ feedback and confirmed his address. Paid him and every thing went well. he asked for 10 more and he said, he will send through Personal Payment. I read somewhere about scam and though Personal Payments cant be refunded.. But as soon as i sent him 10BTC on top of 1 BTC, he disputed and before i could even take any action, Money was refunded. also the eBay Transaction was disputed. Now i am power Seller /Top Rated seller on eBay and my transaction has got on hold.

I called them and they said, since it was not for purchase they cant do anything !  I called the police and they said, they do not deal with Cyber Crimes :S

I called the person and he got kinda confused and said he has not done anything. He has reported to FBI , Police and they are investing into that which is total crap. I have a tracker which told me that the email was opened from the same location the person is...

Interestingly I have contacts inside Paypal that can be used to investigate the issue. But since it is outside transaction I might be keeping it as last resort.

So I have all the proofs, found his entire info using google search and can buy further information. As of speaking he emailed me saying he has filed a case with FBI and my account has been locked out..

Should I start by telling him about the consequences and giving him sweet warning ?

Any Advises

Secondly, I just got two orders and received payment from them. Is it illegal to sell/purchase on eBay and if not then using eBay guidelines for virtual goods, can I be saved ? Or better I call and confirm ? I have seen few people shipping the paper with code on it. May be thats the reason for doing this ?

P.S If you are reading it, I am coming after you
Mike Christ
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May 01, 2013, 05:42:28 AM
 #246

My advice is to not use eBay or PayPal Tongue  Use an exchange.

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May 01, 2013, 06:02:13 AM
 #247

My advice is to not use eBay or PayPal Tongue  Use an exchange.

Well said! eBay owns Paypal, and I don't like that. An exchange is certainly much better with less of a chance of being scammed.

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May 02, 2013, 05:10:18 PM
 #248

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

...

    relate to transactions that involve currency exchanges


That would require someone to officially recognize Bit-coin as a bona fide CURRENCY. Otherwise you are just buying and selling non tangible goods and computer bit strings, which, if paypal says you can't do with bitcoin, then you also can't do it with say a .Mp3 as well?

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May 02, 2013, 08:58:34 PM
 #249

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

...

    relate to transactions that involve currency exchanges


That would require someone to officially recognize Bit-coin as a bona fide CURRENCY. Otherwise you are just buying and selling non tangible goods and computer bit strings, which, if paypal says you can't do with bitcoin, then you also can't do it with say a .Mp3 as well?

FinCen; virtual currency.

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May 02, 2013, 09:28:15 PM
 #250

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

...

    relate to transactions that involve currency exchanges


That would require someone to officially recognize Bit-coin as a bona fide CURRENCY. Otherwise you are just buying and selling non tangible goods and computer bit strings, which, if paypal says you can't do with bitcoin, then you also can't do it with say a .Mp3 as well?

FinCen; virtual currency.

And who officially recognizes it as such enough for Paypal to be able to class it as one?

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TheButterZone
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May 02, 2013, 10:23:27 PM
 #251

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

...

    relate to transactions that involve currency exchanges


That would require someone to officially recognize Bit-coin as a bona fide CURRENCY. Otherwise you are just buying and selling non tangible goods and computer bit strings, which, if paypal says you can't do with bitcoin, then you also can't do it with say a .Mp3 as well?

FinCen; virtual currency.

And who officially recognizes it as such enough for Paypal to be able to class it as one?

Since when is PayPal immune from FinCen? Stop acting like you can beat assholes at their own game.

poobah
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May 02, 2013, 10:47:20 PM
 #252

Paypal will do whats best for paypal.
bitcoin_bob
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May 03, 2013, 12:26:28 AM
 #253

Paypal will do whats best for paypal.

which is probably going to be at some stage in the future, to try and buy bitcoin/copyright it/make their own version and force it as a payment method on ebay/skype/kijiji and whatever else the monster eats.

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boltactionz
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May 03, 2013, 10:23:42 PM
 #254

The real problem with using Paypal is, they consider Bitcoin a competitor.  Truth is, Bitcoin is not just a competitor but a SUPERIOR competitor.

If you were running Paypal would YOU assist YOUR COMPETITOR in putting you OUT OF BUSINESS?  Think about it...I know I wouldn't!

And so using Paypal is risky for both buyer AND seller.  Why?  Because just like when e-gold was around and was better than Paypal, Paypal's user agreement does not allow for using the account to trade or exchange currencies.  They specifically put it in the user agreement that you would not do that in order to protect themselves.  They have a lot of licenses that they hold, and some of them are kind of unique and very specific depending on what locale the license is from.

Using Paypal as a buyer is risky because it gives them a reason to freeze your account.  And if you are doing business with that account it presents a real nightmare.  The thing with Paypal is, they are most likely to shut down or freeze your account when it's most advantageous to THEM, which in many cases (probably most) means when it's least advantageous to you.  For instance, when it has a high balance and you need that money to continue operating!

Paypal worships Murphy and his laws, attempting to imitate Murphy at every opportunity...
boltactionz
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May 03, 2013, 10:27:49 PM
 #255

Paypal will do whats best for paypal.

which is probably going to be at some stage in the future, to try and buy bitcoin/copyright it/make their own version and force it as a payment method on ebay/skype/kijiji and whatever else the monster eats.



"whatever else the monster eats."

Tell me about it!

A lot of people say that Meg Whitman lost when she ran for Governor of California due to the fact she might have had an illegal maid working for her.  I actually think that there were a lot of eBay sellers that were California voters who voted for the other person because of their long memories of what eBay became on her watch.

But that's just my opinion.

One of the deep dark dirty secrets Paypal doesn't want people to know is, they are a licensed money service bureau in several states, California being one of them.  The laws in California state that all money service bureaus MUST provide money sent to someone within one week, that they are not allowed to hold money any longer than that.  It's rather ironic because Paypal freezes accounts for 6 months, sometimes longer.  But if you file a complaint with the right people (or even tell Paypal either on the phone or via email that is your next move) then someone at Paypal will call you back from that mysterious department that supposedly never takes any calls and work things out with you much faster.

If they lose their money service license in California they are likely out of business for a while, although given the status of the California economy they can likely just pay them off somehow (big fines, no jail time) since the government is broke.
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May 04, 2013, 03:49:05 PM
 #256

Great info thank you for posting that Wink
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May 04, 2013, 04:21:09 PM
 #257

i try to avoid paypal while dealing with cryptocurrencies.
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May 04, 2013, 04:32:17 PM
 #258

Very interesting and fascinating information, I'll have to go and do more research for this. The problem as I see it is that in paypal's attempt to be fair they include features that if one is not honest they can abuse in order to try and get more reward for themselves.
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May 04, 2013, 07:59:09 PM
 #259

Paypal...

It's only good for ebay, and rarely nothing else... (like bitcoins)
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May 04, 2013, 08:29:50 PM
 #260

how come you don't just make a Mt Gox gift card with the code right on the card, send it to them physically with tracking number. As far as I know physical products with tracking are covered under paypal and ebay's  tos.

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