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Author Topic: MC2: A cryptocurrency based on a hybrid PoW/PoS system  (Read 194365 times)
digicoin
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May 16, 2013, 01:26:34 PM
 #521

>> I'm sure MC2/Netcoin's success wouldn't be affected by clones, and I think the devs shouldn't worry about it.

You are sure about it? Why?

FeatherCoin, ChinaCoin, Feather2Coin, YaCoin ... are copies of LiteCoin. They make LiteCoin a valueless coin at the moment. When there are more than 2 math-based currencies that look the same to LiteCoin, what is value of LiteCoin? Why do people choose it over the clones?

@others

I understand that NetCoin is built on top of BitCoin or LiteCoin source code. It is not written from scratch. Please be careful when you fork an open source project, distribute a binary version without releasing its source code.

Also, NetCoin is math-based currency. Open sourcing it to interested parties will allow people to validate its implementation. Bugs, flaws can be discovered as soon as possible. What's a pity if someone discovers that he can exploit NetCoin's flaws when it is popular.

Also, there is a very bad culture in this forum: copying another person's work without adding any value. That culture must be dead. Such new altcoin announcement should be moderated or moved to unofficial forum, not this one.
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May 16, 2013, 01:36:04 PM
 #522

>> I'm sure MC2/Netcoin's success wouldn't be affected by clones, and I think the devs shouldn't worry about it.

You are sure about it? Why?
...

I can't be sure, but I'm pretty confident. I believe people will be able to differentiate what is the original and what is a cheap clone, and will support the original. Technically, there may not be much difference between Litecoin and *insert random clone here*, but Litecoin is still the one being successful, while all the clones will probably die in the near future.
cryptrol
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May 16, 2013, 02:27:09 PM
 #523

... I believe people will be able to differentiate what is the original and what is a cheap clone ...

No, they won't. They can't even differentiate a joke coin like FeatherCoin2 (it was built as a trolling coin as stated by it's author) from other coins.
bitdwarf
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May 16, 2013, 02:30:44 PM
 #524

FeatherCoin, ChinaCoin, Feather2Coin, YaCoin ... are copies of LiteCoin.

Calling YACoin a copy of LiteCoin is a bit of a stretch...

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
JessicaMILFson
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May 16, 2013, 02:35:35 PM
 #525

>> I'm sure MC2/Netcoin's success wouldn't be affected by clones, and I think the devs shouldn't worry about it.

You are sure about it? Why?
...

I can't be sure, but I'm pretty confident. I believe people will be able to differentiate what is the original and what is a cheap clone, and will support the original. Technically, there may not be much difference between Litecoin and *insert random clone here*, but Litecoin is still the one being successful, while all the clones will probably die in the near future.

That's because Litecoin existed for a longer period of time and way before this whole copy craze started. They had the time to build up their reputation so that they solidified their position as number 2.

But if you release Netcoin, guaranteed in a few hours someone will fork it and there won't be a way to ensure the success of Netcoin...Think about it....
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May 16, 2013, 02:48:19 PM
 #526

>> I'm sure MC2/Netcoin's success wouldn't be affected by clones, and I think the devs shouldn't worry about it.

You are sure about it? Why?
...

I can't be sure, but I'm pretty confident. I believe people will be able to differentiate what is the original and what is a cheap clone, and will support the original. Technically, there may not be much difference between Litecoin and *insert random clone here*, but Litecoin is still the one being successful, while all the clones will probably die in the near future.

That's because Litecoin existed for a longer period of time and way before this whole copy craze started. They had the time to build up their reputation so that they solidified their position as number 2.

But if you release Netcoin, guaranteed in a few hours someone will fork it and there won't be a way to ensure the success of Netcoin...Think about it....

The dev(s) and community behind Netcoin after the release will be what ensures it's success. There's already talk of having it listed on exchanges ON release and other things that take lesser coins days/weeks to put in place like blockchain explorers and websites, pools etc etc. Most of this will be strong on day one. That strength will snowball.
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May 16, 2013, 06:04:34 PM
 #527

FeatherCoin, ChinaCoin, Feather2Coin, YaCoin ... are copies of LiteCoin.

Calling YACoin a copy of LiteCoin is a bit of a stretch...

Its a copy of the original idea of litecoin isn't it? cpu only.
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May 16, 2013, 06:09:01 PM
 #528

I think Netcoin will just naturally rise above scam coins with ease .

It'll be successful because of the merits of its design.

As for a quick-copycat netcoin, there would be a heck of backlash against it. I can't easily imagine any scenario where a quick coin copy cat would be able to supersede netcoin's prominence, with such a healthy launch being planned.
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May 16, 2013, 06:17:06 PM
 #529

FeatherCoin, ChinaCoin, Feather2Coin, YaCoin ... are copies of LiteCoin.

Calling YACoin a copy of LiteCoin is a bit of a stretch...

Its a copy of the original idea of litecoin isn't it? cpu only.

My understanding of Yacoin is that it's generally based off of the litecoin code, but the hash it uses requires non 1024 values, which screws it up for GPU mining, although it should be possible to develop an fpga and eventually an asic for it.
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May 16, 2013, 09:50:37 PM
 #530

I think Netcoin will just naturally rise above scam coins with ease .

It'll be successful because of the merits of its design.

As for a quick-copycat netcoin, there would be a heck of backlash against it. I can't easily imagine any scenario where a quick coin copy cat would be able to supersede netcoin's prominence, with such a healthy launch being planned.

Worldcoin, launching today, is worth a look at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204894.0 , as the release has been done carefully, we can learn something about release and how a release is received, the different techniques employed, marketing and public relations, for a good release by studying the "Attack of The Clone Coins" ... which is ongoing.
TheSwede75
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May 16, 2013, 10:10:30 PM
 #531

I think Netcoin will just naturally rise above scam coins with ease .

It'll be successful because of the merits of its design.

As for a quick-copycat netcoin, there would be a heck of backlash against it. I can't easily imagine any scenario where a quick coin copy cat would be able to supersede netcoin's prominence, with such a healthy launch being planned.

Worldcoin, launching today, is worth a look at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204894.0 , as the release has been done carefully, we can learn something about release and how a release is received, the different techniques employed, marketing and public relations, for a good release by studying the "Attack of The Clone Coins" ... which is ongoing.

Worldcoin is just like the rest of the alt-scams. Instamined by GPU clusters and AWS instances, dumped in the forums for LTC/BTC and forgotten.
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May 16, 2013, 10:22:47 PM
 #532

My understanding of Yacoin is that it's generally based off of the litecoin code,

It's forked from NovaCoin, which applied Litecoin's scrypt to PPCoin's Proof of Stake + Proof of Work.

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
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May 17, 2013, 03:39:53 PM
 #533

My understanding of Yacoin is that it's generally based off of the litecoin code,

It's forked from NovaCoin, which applied Litecoin's scrypt to PPCoin's Proof of Stake + Proof of Work.

K, thanks. Wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to where it came from. The point, though, is the non-standard scrypt that it's using that's supposedly difficult for GPUs to work with. I don't know if it is or not, but if it is, that's interesting.
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May 17, 2013, 04:09:32 PM
 #534

K, thanks. Wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to where it came from. The point, though, is the non-standard scrypt that it's using that's supposedly difficult for GPUs to work with. I don't know if it is or not, but if it is, that's interesting.

It's not difficult, really.  There are a lot of misconceptions about what scrypt can and can't do.  I doubt there is a value or N or p for which GPU mining isn't advantageous.

I'll be back soon, promise guys.  I've been going through something, and after this weekend things should smooth out for me again.  I'm sorry for this period of unexpected absence.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 17, 2013, 05:06:43 PM
 #535

It's not difficult, really.  There are a lot of misconceptions about what scrypt can and can't do.  I doubt there is a value or N or p for which GPU mining isn't advantageous.

Maybe for high Nfactor values, massive amounts of memory will be used. Then again gpus with big memory will sure take the advantage.
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May 17, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
 #536

It's not difficult, really.  There are a lot of misconceptions about what scrypt can and can't do.  I doubt there is a value or N or p for which GPU mining isn't advantageous.

Maybe for high Nfactor values, massive amounts of memory will be used. Then again gpus with big memory will sure take the advantage.

You can use less memory by just lowering the lookup_gap on the current GPU implementation and recomputing the lookup table on the fly.  The amount of memory used is O(L^(-1) * m) where L is the lookup_gap and m is the size of the lookup table.  Hence with L=2, threads only utilize 64 KB instead of 128 KB.  Performance goes down per thread, but you can still calculate any size of N.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
KrLos
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May 17, 2013, 05:29:13 PM
 #537

K, thanks. Wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to where it came from. The point, though, is the non-standard scrypt that it's using that's supposedly difficult for GPUs to work with. I don't know if it is or not, but if it is, that's interesting.

It's not difficult, really.  There are a lot of misconceptions about what scrypt can and can't do.  I doubt there is a value or N or p for which GPU mining isn't advantageous.

I'll be back soon, promise guys.  I've been going through something, and after this weekend things should smooth out for me again.  I'm sorry for this period of unexpected absence.

don't worry, man, this idea is the one i'm waiting for in short term.. thanks for your contributions!





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Luckybit
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May 17, 2013, 09:15:24 PM
 #538

Overall psychology in the currency markets is a vile hatred for inflationary fiat currency. So the bitcoin, deflationary, tightly reigned in finite model is well received. Any attempt to "better" bitcoin with more units by some great degree is bad as the current psychology is a true hatred for any model that even speaks to inflationary.

Clearly, an inflationary coin cannot have the same success pathway of Bitcoin, with people simply hoarding it. Maybe just for the first leg, when it starts from zero. After it has reached a decent value, you need to spend it or face the inflation tax.

On the other hand, if the inflation tax is small, it's earned by charities and the result is a decent coin that is stable and drives trade, than it could kill bitcoin for mere practical reasons. Most people are not that dogmatic about inflation and understand full well they shouldn't keep cash as is. "Store of value" is antithetical to "money".

Right. We need a digital gold and a digital currency, and its become somewhat clear they cannot be the same thing. The problem is that even if the coin has permanent inflation (unlike Bitcoin's "still inflating for the rest of our lifetimes" model), a rapid appreciation in value (relative to fiat) will cause the coin to not function as a currency. And, a rapid appreciation in value will happen for any coin that is useful, making it suck, at least temporarily, as a currency. So its difficult problem to solve, regardless of the coin's economics. Having some method for adjusting creation rate in the future, may prove to be quite useful.

Having said all that, Bitcoin has now been around for over 4 years and its time for a legitimate alt coin to be created that actually offers some possible actual improvements. If mining consolidation is really a strong concern (or the strongest concern), the solution is not scrypt (or anything that at best temporarily retards that consolidation), the solution is PoS or a PoS / PoW hybrid. It looks like one with a good implementation may soon be born.

Rapid appreciation was never a problem. The problems and reasons Bitcoin isn't working as a currency are

1. Volatility
2. Lack of infrastructure

When the price appreciates rapidly, no one really minds that. It's more profit for the community, it's exponential growth. The Internet faced similar growth and while it did lead to a bubble no one actually thought it was a bad way for the Internet to grow, it was the crash that made it bad. I think Netcoin if it has enough infrastructure can have the rapid appreciation and avoid the crash.

And I don't buy the argument that inflation is needed to get people to spend. People like entertainment, they will always have to spend for it. Food, rent and utilities are a matter of infrastructure not a matter of people not wanting to pay. If you're Netcoins are gaining value you'll still use it to pay your rent, pay your electric bill, buy food, buy clothes, and pay for your cost of living expenses.

I just don't think we need to worry about encouraging people to spend when people naturally are too greedy anyway and naturally are addicted to shopping via advertisements. Currency does not need advertisements built into it to trick people into parting with it, if anything currency needs the opposite to trick people into saving their way out of debt.

That said it's very difficult for one coin to be good as both a store of value and as a currency and do it both well at the same time. I think Bitcoin will become a much stronger currrency than people give it credit and has more value as a currency than as a store of value but because right now we can't pay our bills with it and buy live off of it we assume people aren't going to spend it. People are hoarding it because right now we there isn't much else you can do with it if you can't pay your living expenses yet. Solve the living expenses payment infrastructure problem and that is when Bitcoins will be spent just like dollars. Maybe if you're a property owner and you accept rent in Bitcoins you can speed the process up but before you can do that the volatility issue has to be solved so that you don't have to instantly cash it out the moment you receive it.
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May 17, 2013, 09:24:26 PM
 #539

A new coin has come out that addresses the inflation vs dollar valuation issue. Ela coin is going to launch in like, ~8-9 hours from now, and it increases the block reward based on the network hashrate, as more people mine, each block becomes more valuable. It's not a straight 1:1 increase, but I still think it's a bit over the top. But it's nice to see that people are actually trying Smiley

Here is an idea, why don't we have it so Netcoin rewards different mining technologies at different times of the day? CPU mining becomes easier for a while each day but ASICS become real hard to mine with. GPU mining becomes difficult for a while each day but ASICS become easier. CPU becomes harder then GPU becomes easier. This should be randomized by a seed node so that it's unpredictable at which time of the day this will occur or who and what technology it will favor.

This would encourage a maximum amount of miners to mine for a maximum amount of time. This is a feature I suggest be included into the Netcoin concept if Tacotime agrees it can and should be implemented. If I'm a miner and I do not know when or how much but I know for sure every day mining will favor my technology, then I will mine this coin every day waiting for my turn for the difficulty to drop way down for my technology.

This will make it so developing ASICS wont be the best way to take advantage of mining. GPUs, CPUs, all sorts of technologies would have to be developed. If Netcoin is designed in a modular fashion then the developer could set it up to optimize to any random technology at any time of day or night. This in my opinion help remove the leverage of ASICS but I don't know if it's possible to pull it off because I don't know the source code or know the intimate details of the hashing algorithms. I would suggest running it in a simulation so we can find out what it's optimizing for.
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May 18, 2013, 05:26:23 AM
 #540

K, thanks. Wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to where it came from. The point, though, is the non-standard scrypt that it's using that's supposedly difficult for GPUs to work with. I don't know if it is or not, but if it is, that's interesting.

It's not difficult, really.  There are a lot of misconceptions about what scrypt can and can't do.  I doubt there is a value or N or p for which GPU mining isn't advantageous.

I'll be back soon, promise guys.  I've been going through something, and after this weekend things should smooth out for me again.  I'm sorry for this period of unexpected absence.

Hey life comes up. Looking forward to this!

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