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Author Topic: MC2: A cryptocurrency based on a hybrid PoW/PoS system  (Read 194365 times)
glendall
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May 30, 2013, 03:33:31 PM
Last edit: May 30, 2013, 06:28:22 PM by glendall
 #641

.......ity costs. You wont have to worry about any of that. Just like how we went from people hosting their own web servers in their house to paying web companies to host for them to hosting it in the cloud to virtual machines and VPS. Netcoin hashing power will be hosted in the cloud and you can cite this post of mine when Netcoin is released and see if I was right.

[quote excised for length]

Luckybit that was a good read thanks.

I was wondering if you could expand on your thoughts concerning how you see mining as moving from pools to cloud-hosted services.

Am I correct to assume you mean primarily that you feel the ASICMINER method of participators contributing resources through paying for shares in companies that organize & perform the mining is the way of the future?  Is there an alternate method that you think has under-utilized merit, when it comes to cloud-based hashing power?

Am I also correct that you are  including p2p [pool] mining methods when you discuss mining initiatives that are 'cloud-based'?  

Just want to pick your brain on this. I believe in Netcoin so am looking at creating an early pool or otherwise assist this effort in a way that seems most effective and suitable.   Thanks... great conversations going on in this thread and I'm taking notes .

edit: I read the details you posted on the Netcoin forum and think I have a better idea now, thanks.
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Luckybit
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May 30, 2013, 05:29:42 PM
Last edit: May 30, 2013, 06:02:56 PM by Luckybit
 #642

Luckybit that was a good read thanks.

I was wondering if you could expand on your thoughts concerning how you see mining as moving from pools to cloud-hosted services.

Am I correct to assume you mean primarily that you feel the ASICMINER method of participators contributing resources through paying for shares in companies that organize & perform the mining is the way of the future?  Is there an alternate method that you think has under-utilized merit, when it comes to cloud-based hashing power?

Am I also correct that you are  including p2p [pool] mining methods when you discuss mining initiatives that are 'cloud-based'?  

Just want to pick your brain on this. I believe in Netcoin so am looking at creating an early pool or otherwise assist this effort in a way that seems most effective and suitable.   Thanks... great conversations going on in this thread and I'm taking notes .

Take a look at these examples https://hashrack.com/hashpacks/buy https://cloudhashing.com/

We are moving into an era of virtual rigs. The technical expertise to set up these rigs is moving up into the top 1% of graduate students and engineers. How many of us can design an ASIC or put an ASIC together? How many of us can configure an FGPA? How many of us even know what FGPA is?

What I'm talking about is MaaS (Mining as a Service) replacing individual miners and mining pools. If you set up a cloud the first thing you should do is set yourself up as an L3C or Cooperative so that people don't think you're just in it to get rich and for greed. The Coop/collective should offer shares similar to ASICminer but the reason it should not be an LLC and instead has to be L3C or Coop is because decentralization of hashing power should be a common interest of all Mining as a Service entities because if this is not given priority then cryptocurrencies cannot survive. An L3C is a social enterprise which can allow you to get rich while also legally requiring you to pursue the mission of keeping the hashing power decentralized.

Quote
"An L3C is a for-profit, social enterprise venture that has a stated goal of performing a socially beneficial purpose, not maximizing income. [3][4] It is a hybrid structure that combines the legal and tax flexibility of a traditional LLC, the social benefits of a nonprofit organization, and the branding and market positioning advantages of a social enterprise. [5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L3C

I think a Coop would work well too but a traditional corporation would not work well and could easily be turned against the community interest. This is why we have people who think Butterfly labs or some ASIC company could build an ASIC and then mine in secret. This level of distrust can only be removed if the ownership of the Coop or L3C is distributed to many individuals. A syndicate is a way to decentralize hashing and also to allow any individual to buy shares in the investment syndicate and now they own shares in the entire business network. Essentially the community would have a way of owning itself and regulating itself so that governments don't have the excuse to.

ASICminer got it right to offer shares. They are also getting it right by releasing block erupters and trying to decentralize the hashing power. But they get it wrong in some ways too. The main way they got is wrong is with this virtual pass through share stuff which requires you to buy shares with only Bitcoins and you don't even know for sure that you own it, all centralized around a few sites too etc. The shares and contracts have to be real and legally binding. I understand this was the only way to do it at the time and Netcoin might end up doing the same but I wish we could see Netcoin companies on NASDAQ someday with the investment syndicate handling all the details of buying into IPO's and protecting shareholders.

In my opinion it should be a syndicate of different kinds of Mining as a Service Coops and L3Cs who early adopters buy shares in prior to the launch of Netcoin. These early adopters along with these Mining as a Service Coops should also buy shares in the umbrella syndicate giving them voting rights similar to how shareholders have voting rights in ASICminer. The kind of stuff to vote on would be which companies are allowed to join the syndicate? If they are accepted in then they are certified by the syndicate. To be accepted into the syndicate they have to sell a portion of shares of their company to the syndicate.

This should not just take place on some virtual way like with ASICminer, I'm saying we should own actual stocks in companies and then have the profit from those stocks distributed as dividends to all the members who own shares in the investment syndicate. This means the investment syndicate could invest in your business to start a mining pool but you would have to agree to certain guidelines to receive that investment. Once investment occurs then the newsletter is sent out to members saying that your company has just been certified with a community seal of approval and to trust your company and to bring resources, support, human resources, buy shares or buy whatever it is you're selling.

A pool which is set up without being certified by the syndicate would not be considered a part of the trusted network. It would not receive investment, it would not receive marketing, and would be on it's own.  To address P2P Pool based on this definition P2Pool is a decentralized Bitcoin mining pool that works by creating a peer-to-peer network of miner nodes., a decentralized mining pool would be fine but the problem once again is if I want to buy shares and don't have the expertise to mine because I'm a doctor and I don't know anything about computers but I have enough money to see it's an investment to make, how exactly would I invest in a P2P Pool and get ROI? If it's cloud hashing Coop and it's certified by the most trusted entity which is the syndicate then as a doctor I would recognize that it's very similar to how lawyers have to pass the bar and how doctors have to be licensed. I would immediately know that I could trust that particular cloud based hashing company and would invest. The cloud based hashing company would take my money, buy mining equipment on my behalf which I'd legally own, they'd configure it all for me, they'd mine Netcoins for me or any coin I tell them to, and they'd deliver the profit directly to my Netcoin address or even directly into my checking account. They could even offer to automatically take money from my paycheck in recurring fashion to constantly upgrade. In this way the investor doesn't have to think of mining as any different from any other investment and when that happens then everyone will do it that way.

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May 30, 2013, 05:44:10 PM
 #643

Is the wiki ready yet?

I'll ask xweb to set it up.

Remodel of the PoS system (yet again) coming in the next version of the whitepaper, although there are only some minor changes.

With any luck the paper will be finalized soon and we can begin the organization of a lead software dev and supporting devs, then open the kickstarter.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 30, 2013, 05:45:56 PM
 #644


Is the wiki ready yet?

I'll ask xweb to set it up.

Working with him on it right now. It'll be pretty bare bones, but we'll continue improving on it. Sorry, thought I posted that we were!

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May 30, 2013, 05:46:40 PM
 #645


Is the wiki ready yet?

I'll ask xweb to set it up.
Working with him on it right now. It'll be pretty bare bones, but we'll continue improving on it. Sorry, thought I posted that we were!

Thanks!

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
glendall
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May 30, 2013, 06:45:55 PM
Last edit: May 30, 2013, 07:00:12 PM by glendall
 #646

Thank you LuckyBit for your posts. Great explanations, as usual, thanks.
 
From your last reply to my question and your other posts, I fully support your take on the situation. I think your plan is the most well thought out and promising, and believe that you are pointing in the right direction forward for Netcoin Smiley.
 
I'll keep tabs on this, and intend to contribute to the project. I have a strong interest in cloud engineering, having this year completed a technical edit of a 600+ page book on the subject, in addition to my other hands-on experience in IT, and with Amazon's EC2. Aiding in the birth of a cloud mining syndicate in some fashion appeals to me greatly.
glendall
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May 30, 2013, 07:06:50 PM
 #647

This has probably already been mentioned but I really think it would be awesome to enable merge mining that also supports projects like SETI@home and other BOINC projects like helping find a cure for cancer.

Integrate this with the GUI of your coin so that miner can drag and select a percentage of their hashing power to contribute to the BOINC network (from 0% to 100%).

If the coin gets really popular this implementation could do so much good for the world it's unbelievable.

EDIT: also a GUI that enables anyone to mine easily, making mining more accessible for the masses = more people using the coin Smiley



This would be nice. Not sure if that is realistically feasible, but it is pretty amazing to consider that if there was a 1% 'tax' on mining computations it could conceivably be enough resources to actually make a dent in something very major, such as a cancer research, or find some aliens.
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May 30, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
 #648

any estimation how hashing speed of GPUs compares to CPUs?
Luckybit
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May 31, 2013, 02:17:10 AM
Last edit: May 31, 2013, 04:30:12 AM by Luckybit
 #649

Thank you LuckyBit for your posts. Great explanations, as usual, thanks.
 
From your last reply to my question and your other posts, I fully support your take on the situation. I think your plan is the most well thought out and promising, and believe that you are pointing in the right direction forward for Netcoin Smiley.
 
I'll keep tabs on this, and intend to contribute to the project. I have a strong interest in cloud engineering, having this year completed a technical edit of a 600+ page book on the subject, in addition to my other hands-on experience in IT, and with Amazon's EC2. Aiding in the birth of a cloud mining syndicate in some fashion appeals to me greatly.

The one thing missing from these coins is the lack of attention to protecting the social network. It's like if you want to earn Bitcoins where do you go? You can't even find jobs paying people in Bitcoins but we know there are a lot of hoarders just sitting on thousands of Bitcoins. At the same time there are barely any job boards or anything else and the majority of jobs which exist seem to be for computer technicians and programmers.

So I think it's time to actually build infrastructure and create the jobs base for Netcoin using investment syndicates. Basically lets say you run a business and you agree to start paying your people in Netcoins, shouldn't this be known to the syndicate and result in some kind of discounts? What about a social networking site similar to linkedin but pseudo-anonymous?

When I want to hire someone why is it so hard to find them? So hard to set up a contract or smart contract?

Because there is no craigslist, no jobs board, no linkedin, none of this exists for the community and stuff like that would greatly help the community thrive and boost market cap more than anything else. We can't all be miners and developers.  This is an example of what I mean https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157548.msg1668632#msg1668632
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May 31, 2013, 10:04:17 AM
 #650

What level of anonymity do you intend to have with this coin, would you be considering an inbuilt feature similar to the zerocoin idea? Or will this be open transaction history like Bitcoin etc?
glendall
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May 31, 2013, 03:00:10 PM
 #651

Thanks for the recommendation Luckybit. I'll check out the link and give it consideration, for sure. After about 3 weeks from now I'll have time on my hands (a contract is ending) and a strong itch to get some sort of development work going to contribute.
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May 31, 2013, 05:25:02 PM
 #652

when will the source code be out? - i'm looking to make HelloKittyKoin a success.

tiny rick !
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May 31, 2013, 10:52:00 PM
 #653

Hey everyone, Wiki is up! Sorry if it's a bit crude, we're still looking at extensions. Any recommendations are welcome!

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May 31, 2013, 10:54:55 PM
 #654

Hey everyone, Wiki is up! Sorry if it's a bit crude, we're still looking at extensions. Any recommendations are welcome!

I recommend you give yourself a pat on the back, for a job wel done, sir Smiley It looks very nice.

▼ Block Options.














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....The First Decentralized Binary Options Platform....
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   █
...PRE-SALE...
....Aug 1st, 2017....
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May 31, 2013, 10:58:28 PM
 #655


Hey everyone, Wiki is up! Sorry if it's a bit crude, we're still looking at extensions. Any recommendations are welcome!

I recommend you give yourself a pat on the back, for a job wel done, sir Smiley It looks very nice.

Haha, well thank you. That's very kind. Smiley I would have to extend that to the MediaWiki people and the Cavendish-MW skin! I hope it serves us well.

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May 31, 2013, 11:11:50 PM
 #656

has this coin been gaining any ground?  Been around for a bit now it seems

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June 01, 2013, 12:44:29 AM
 #657

18 day re-target time on difficulty, is this correct?  This seems bold in this day and age, no?
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June 01, 2013, 02:02:48 AM
 #658

18 day re-target time on difficulty, is this correct?  This seems bold in this day and age, no?

Its using an average of the past 14 days for the difficulty, so its dynamic, AFAIK.
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June 01, 2013, 02:06:35 AM
 #659

Okay, so in regards to the discussion on syndicates, cabals, and other entities to control mining, let me throw something out there:

It would potentially make sense to do this in such a way as to heavily dissuade people from gaming the coin. As the value of the coin grows, the desire for malevolent mining may persist. What I mean by that is that with LTC, we see huge daily attacks of botnets every 12hrs, that add 1-2 or more GH to network traffic. Going after botnets will ensure that the system is less prone to 51% attacks (which I think could easily be done with some huge botnets if MC2/NTC is profitable).

So I think that it may behoove the coin to quasi-regulate pools and syndicates to ensure they aren't using botnets to mine with. I'm unsure how you could specifically regulate this, but I think it would be very important for the development of the coin.

Having said that, I am biased. I'm working on a very large GPU mining farm, and look forward to mining MC2. But I do think that if the system is truly ASIC-resistant, there will be huge incentives for botnets to commit a very large amount of power to the network, which isn't good for miners - farms, co-ops, syndicates, or individuals.
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June 01, 2013, 02:34:46 AM
 #660

This coin may be eligible for ETC funding:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=221375.0
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