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Author Topic: MC2: A cryptocurrency based on a hybrid PoW/PoS system  (Read 194366 times)
_ingsoc
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June 21, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
 #741

I believe the peer review phase is coming. Taco did mention he is working on the whitepaper and based on the time frame it would explain why he has been quiet.

My guess is the whitepaper will be presented within 2 weeks and then peer reviewed.
Then of course the crowd funding phase comes after that, then the development phase.

Let us have faith in the integrity and work ethic of Tacotime. If he has not posted the whitepaper within 2 weeks then we should begin to worry.
Technically this is the peer review stage. There have been some great points discussed here that were incorporated in v0.03 and v0.031. The same goes for the next version, but the idea is to get it to a technical point where it's ready to move into the crowdfunding/development phase. Some of the other stuff talked about is auxiliary to that process. For example, there's been talk about services and mining bonds, and so on, all of which are important ideas, but a bit beyond the scope (and budget) of the actual coin software. So that would be a good community effort down the track.

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June 21, 2013, 12:00:48 PM
 #742

Can someone indulge me on how is MC2 and Peercash (BitFreak's project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215936.0) different in handling the blockchain?

Thanks in advance!
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June 25, 2013, 09:19:15 AM
 #743

3 days no talk. People seem to be very busy now.   Smiley
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June 25, 2013, 10:52:31 PM
 #744

Just some food for thought

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1gzxqk/what_are_the_best_arguments_and_counterarguments/


Quote
For me the biggest arguments against bitcoin would be no protection against Shor's algorithm  should a quantum computer be made. EDIT Grover's Algorithm halfs the brute force attack, shor's algorithm doesn't apply to AES but none the less one should be aware of the possible vulnerabilities due to quantum computing.
Another potential counter argument is that since there is a record of every exchange you ever made, if your bitcoin account is traced back to a person a lot of information can be gleaned as well as governments could use it as a record against you


You're wrong, it uses SHA-256 (which is still not vulnerable to Shor's algorithm). However, the public key scheme used is vulnerable, which means that in the presence of a quantum computer you should never send from an address more than once.




An attacker with a quantum computer could spike the difficulty up to 1024 times what it is now, then stop mining and make the interval between blocks absolutely massive, requiring a protocol change to reset it back
Nobody has a general-purpose quantum computer right now as far as we know. Maybe in 20 years.



http://eric-mariacher.blogspot.ch/2013/06/how-bitcoin-is-already-crumbling-under.html

Quote
How bitcoin is already crumbling under its own success

The bitcoin community has recently discussed about government interference, but today, I want to discuss 2 mostly overlooked bitcoin news:
 * blockchain has reached a size of 8 Gb
 * transactions shall have, now, a minimum size

 These 2 events/news are closely related. Every transaction contributes to the 8Gb ledger size, and "they (the miners?)" want to limit the ledger size. This will be done by fighting transaction spam i.e. eliminating insignifiant exchanges and non-financial transactions such as those initiated by satoshidice.

Why is it needed to limit transactions when there are so few users?
Is limiting transactions today a sign that bitcoin will not scale well?

Some predict that bitcoin market capitalization will reach orders tens, hundred of billions or even trillions.
 * How many people will use bitcoins in a few years?
 * What will be, then, the size of the bitcoin ledger? Will it still be manageable? 

Most probably to keep the ledger at a computable size, transaction size will be limited to higher limits. People will be less able to use it, then, for day to day transactions, if the limit is set to 0.1 bitcoin (equivalent to 100$?) for instance.

Maybe are we going to need to use other currencies, for smaller amounts, such as litecoin sometimes deemed as "silver compared to bitcoin's gold"? If "open currencies" become mainstream, I guess in addition to gold and silver, copper, iron, lead and feather coins are going to be needed to be able to manage the huge number of transactions when half the planet is going to use these new currencies.

Today's amount of transfers is looking like ripples compared to tomorrow's tsunamis of transactions. If we consider bitcoin as the "Napster" of open currencies and expect future open currencies, answering to those questions, which I personnally find unsolved yet, is something essential.
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June 25, 2013, 10:55:39 PM
 #745

I'm not sure how the wallet and block chained will be designed, but I think it would be a good idea to have some lite clients on the official site to encourage adoption so people won't have to download the whole ledger to use it if they are not mining.
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June 25, 2013, 10:55:59 PM
 #746

I'm considering having an implemention of NTRU along side ECDSA and letting users select which one to use.  The end user will then decide whether or not enduring 10x the amount of fees is worth the hassle, but it would enable an easy way to transfer coins from ECDSA addresses to (much longer) NTRU addresses.

Progressive updates to the wiki are coming soon, and hopefully that will clarify things for everyone and make it a little easier to understand.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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June 25, 2013, 10:59:02 PM
 #747

Since the master is commenting, I had to ask: Did you think any about the suggestion I made about coin coloring as an easy way to explain decimals and fractions of coinage?

Also, when this comes out, what kind of plans (if any) are there for GPU mining?
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June 25, 2013, 11:05:01 PM
 #748

Since the master is commenting, I had to ask: Did you think any about the suggestion I made about coin coloring as an easy way to explain decimals and fractions of coinage?

Also, when this comes out, what kind of plans (if any) are there for GPU mining?

The "coloured coin" implementation I envisioned isn't really about emphasizing smaller divisions of coins directly, but rather about facilitating exchanges between Netcoin and other currencies.  Coloured coins themselves have no intrinsic NTC values but can be exchanged for NTC using the chain itself as the escrow.  An intermediary could always make a "milli-netcoin" currency and send one NTC in exchange for 1000 milli-netcoins.

The downside with coloured coins is that with widespread adoption, cost in terms of fees may become prohibitive for lots of these transactions to go through.  Still, where the coloured coin maintains a large value or can be transferred en masse (think overnight currency exchange among banks), the feature will still probably prove useful.

GPU mining will be available at launch.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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June 26, 2013, 03:34:47 AM
 #749

Will GPU mining be through a CGMiner/GUIMiner, or will it be a new system?
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June 26, 2013, 06:21:08 PM
 #750

GPU mining will be available at launch.

Many of us, I'm sure, share the hope that you will develop your current GUIminer to facilitate the mining of NTC, Netcoin.
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June 26, 2013, 06:39:38 PM
 #751

GPU mining will be available at launch.

Many of us, I'm sure, share the hope that you will develop your current GUIminer to facilitate the mining of NTC, Netcoin.

Yes, the miner should be a modified cgminer with GUIMiner support.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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June 26, 2013, 08:20:19 PM
 #752

Does anyone have a Reddit account that's older than 90 days with 500+ karma? If so, please send me a PM. It's in regards to the Netcoin subreddit. Someone parked it a few months ago and has subsequently disappeared.

There is a procedure to get moderators added to it through Reddit, but it requires an established Reddit account. So if you have one and would be interested in helping moderate, please let me know! I'm a Reddit lurker, so unfortunately I can't follow the procedure by myself. It'll be really helpful to the project's future to consolidate that subreddit so we can pass some information through there as well! We could use a different subreddit, but it's kind of pointless to have an abandoned /r/netcoin when we gather momentum with this project in the future.

Please let me know if you can. Thank you!

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June 26, 2013, 08:53:28 PM
 #753

Does anyone have a Reddit account that's older than 90 days with 500+ karma? If so, please send me a PM. It's in regards to the Netcoin subreddit. Someone parked it a few months ago and has subsequently disappeared.

There is a procedure to get moderators added to it through Reddit, but it requires an established Reddit account. So if you have one and would be interested in helping moderate, please let me know! I'm a Reddit lurker, so unfortunately I can't follow the procedure by myself. It'll be really helpful to the project's future to consolidate that subreddit so we can pass some information through there as well! We could use a different subreddit, but it's kind of pointless to have an abandoned /r/netcoin when we gather momentum with this project in the future.

Please let me know if you can. Thank you!
msg me i might be able to help

For security, your account has been locked. Email acctcomp15@theymos.e4ward.com
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June 27, 2013, 12:45:22 AM
 #754

Does anyone have a Reddit account that's older than 90 days with 500+ karma? If so, please send me a PM. It's in regards to the Netcoin subreddit. Someone parked it a few months ago and has subsequently disappeared.

There is a procedure to get moderators added to it through Reddit, but it requires an established Reddit account. So if you have one and would be interested in helping moderate, please let me know! I'm a Reddit lurker, so unfortunately I can't follow the procedure by myself. It'll be really helpful to the project's future to consolidate that subreddit so we can pass some information through there as well! We could use a different subreddit, but it's kind of pointless to have an abandoned /r/netcoin when we gather momentum with this project in the future.

Please let me know if you can. Thank you!
msg me i might be able to help

any thoughts on how to catch up to bitcoin's 4 year head start and the amount of adoption they already have?
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June 27, 2013, 03:34:26 AM
 #755

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/coinsetter-will-a-better-virtual-currency-make-bitcoin-obsolete/

Quote
Building my first startup in the highly competitive online ticketing industry taught me a lot about who wins and loses in a changing environment. Many people in the tech world suggest that all you need to do in order to attract customers is to build a great product and users will naturally come. While building a great product is vital, it’s not the whole story. All around us, we see large, imperfect companies dominating their market while new entrants with theoretically better products never quite gain traction. Many entrepreneurs rely upon this “create a better product” strategy and never understand why users aren’t willing to leave their old product for the shiny new thing. With many people questioning if Bitcoin is the best implementation of virtual currency, I can already see parallels in comparing Bitcoin with other options. The answer to whether Bitcoin is the long term winner in this race is actually quite clear.

First, most people would admit that Bitcoin is not perfect. The 10 minute confirmation time is not optimal for quick transactions. The 51% attack is still a looming risk. Then there’s the huge amount of energy “wasted” in the mining process – not great from an environmental standpoint. I’m not the first person to point these issues out, and in response, many people have already released other virtual currencies that aim to improve upon the movement that Bitcoin has started. Litecoin, Ripple, PPCoin, Feathercoin, BBQcoin and others all claim to be a better virtual currency, and their proponents are just waiting for bitcoiners to flock over. BBQcoin is obviously the most delicious of the virtual currencies and way more delicious than Bitcoin, but what would need to happen for it to truly rival Bitcoin?

I think it helps to take a step back and ask why a lot of Bitcoin’s imperfections exist in the first place. These imperfections were not oversights by its core developers; they were expected byproducts of thoughtful decisions that they made. For instance, the 51% attack is only possible because of the extremely distributed nature of the mining structure that makes Bitcoin unstoppable by groups that would limit it. A system like Ripple reduces this particular risk and uses far less energy in the process, but by using trusted gateways as the basis for making confirmations, it is prone to government manipulation. Though I believe Ripple as a technology is needed and will be successful, I see its form inevitably becoming influenced by the government. Bitcoin companies will have to play ball with regulation, but the currency itself will hold its ability to force desired change in world.

Beyond imperfections, Bitcoin has an attribute that will solidify its place as the only viable virtual currency: Bitcoin’s use as an IP address for money. While closed payment networks will initially be apprehensive to accept Bitcoin transfers, they will find that they must accept out-of-network Bitcoin transfers or become obsolete. Within the next five years, almost all closed payment networks will have an input for your Bitcoin address, turning them into open payment networks that can accept money from anyone. However, you won’t find two inputs on these apps for your Bitcoin and Litecoin address. Bitcoin is the only virtual currency that has sufficient adoption to become the standard. If you want to know how this story unfolds, I encourage you to read the history of the Internet and TCP/IP.

Further solidifying Bitcoin as the only viable virtual currency, wider adoption will lead to increased switching costs. Once a company, product or in this case, a currency takes dominance in an industry, people don’t tend to leave it for something with low value improvements. This happens, firstly, because people find comfort in familiar things and don’t become compelled to try something new unless the benefit is overwhelmingly obvious. Bitcoin already has far wider adoption than any of its alternatives and has substantially more infrastructure being built around it. Second is track record. For as bad as a product is perceived to be, proven “good enough” reliability goes a long way against unproven alternatives. Bitcoin’s four years of success in the face of hackers and growing transaction volumes builds confidence. Finally, Bitcoin has very social roots. Given the value now associated with the word “Bitcoin,” it is very unlikely that another virtual currency will match its caché in the next five years.

So will a better virtual currency make Bitcoin obsolete? The answer is very clear to me. Bitcoin isn’t perfect, but it doesn’t have to be in order to fend off competitors and remain the world’s dominant virtual currency. An understanding of this notion presents an opportunity for people that understand it today. Until traders widely realize that Bitcoin is here for good, there will be a lot of untapped value in Bitcoin’s market price. The currency’s longevity will become obvious over time and be reflected in prices down the road, so eat your BBQcoins, sell your PPcoins, and go buy some Bitcoins before they’re back at $200!

About the Author

Jaron Lukasiewicz is the CEO and Founder of Coinsetter, a New York City-based company that offers a high performance levered trading platform for Bitcoin. Prior to Coinsetter, Jaron was the Co-Founder of Ticketometer, a social media-focused online ticketing platform. Previously, Jaron was an Associate at The CapStreet Group, a Houston-based private equity firm; an investment banker at J.P. Morgan and Madison Williams in their global investment banking groups; and began his career as a summer analyst at SPB Partners, a Las Vegas-based private equity firm.

Jaron graduated from Rice University on the President’s Honor Roll with a Bachelor of Arts in Economics and is fluent in Spanish and Portuguese. He is a frequent speaker at events on the topic of Bitcoin and financial technology and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Fox Business News, TechCrunch, Mashable, Entrepreneur, Forex Magnates and other news media.
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June 27, 2013, 03:44:57 AM
 #756

Surely an unbiased article from unbiasedmagazine Wink

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June 27, 2013, 04:53:41 AM
 #757

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/coinsetter-will-a-better-virtual-currency-make-bitcoin-obsolete/

Quote
Building my first startup in the highly competitive online ticketing industry taught me a lot about who wins and loses in a changing environment. Many people in the tech world suggest that all you need to do in order to attract customers is to build a great product and users will naturally come. While building a great product is vital, it’s not the whole story. All around us, we see large, imperfect companies dominating their market while new entrants with theoretically better products never quite gain traction. Many entrepreneurs rely upon this “create a better product” strategy and never understand why users aren’t willing to leave their old product for the shiny new thing. With many people questioning if Bitcoin is the best implementation of virtual currency, I can already see parallels in comparing Bitcoin with other options. The answer to whether Bitcoin is the long term winner in this race is actually quite clear.

First, most people would admit that Bitcoin is not perfect. The 10 minute confirmation time is not optimal for quick transactions. The 51% attack is still a looming risk. Then there’s the huge amount of energy “wasted” in the mining process – not great from an environmental standpoint. I’m not the first person to point these issues out, and in response, many people have already released other virtual currencies that aim to improve upon the movement that Bitcoin has started. Litecoin, Ripple, PPCoin, Feathercoin, BBQcoin and others all claim to be a better virtual currency, and their proponents are just waiting for bitcoiners to flock over. BBQcoin is obviously the most delicious of the virtual currencies and way more delicious than Bitcoin, but what would need to happen for it to truly rival Bitcoin?

I think it helps to take a step back and ask why a lot of Bitcoin’s imperfections exist in the first place. These imperfections were not oversights by its core developers; they were expected byproducts of thoughtful decisions that they made. For instance, the 51% attack is only possible because of the extremely distributed nature of the mining structure that makes Bitcoin unstoppable by groups that would limit it. A system like Ripple reduces this particular risk and uses far less energy in the process, but by using trusted gateways as the basis for making confirmations, it is prone to government manipulation. Though I believe Ripple as a technology is needed and will be successful, I see its form inevitably becoming influenced by the government. Bitcoin companies will have to play ball with regulation, but the currency itself will hold its ability to force desired change in world.

Beyond imperfections, Bitcoin has an attribute that will solidify its place as the only viable virtual currency: Bitcoin’s use as an IP address for money. While closed payment networks will initially be apprehensive to accept Bitcoin transfers, they will find that they must accept out-of-network Bitcoin transfers or become obsolete. Within the next five years, almost all closed payment networks will have an input for your Bitcoin address, turning them into open payment networks that can accept money from anyone. However, you won’t find two inputs on these apps for your Bitcoin and Litecoin address. Bitcoin is the only virtual currency that has sufficient adoption to become the standard. If you want to know how this story unfolds, I encourage you to read the history of the Internet and TCP/IP.

Further solidifying Bitcoin as the only viable virtual currency, wider adoption will lead to increased switching costs. Once a company, product or in this case, a currency takes dominance in an industry, people don’t tend to leave it for something with low value improvements. This happens, firstly, because people find comfort in familiar things and don’t become compelled to try something new unless the benefit is overwhelmingly obvious. Bitcoin already has far wider adoption than any of its alternatives and has substantially more infrastructure being built around it. Second is track record. For as bad as a product is perceived to be, proven “good enough” reliability goes a long way against unproven alternatives. Bitcoin’s four years of success in the face of hackers and growing transaction volumes builds confidence. Finally, Bitcoin has very social roots. Given the value now associated with the word “Bitcoin,” it is very unlikely that another virtual currency will match its caché in the next five years.

So will a better virtual currency make Bitcoin obsolete? The answer is very clear to me. Bitcoin isn’t perfect, but it doesn’t have to be in order to fend off competitors and remain the world’s dominant virtual currency. An understanding of this notion presents an opportunity for people that understand it today. Until traders widely realize that Bitcoin is here for good, there will be a lot of untapped value in Bitcoin’s market price. The currency’s longevity will become obvious over time and be reflected in prices down the road, so eat your BBQcoins, sell your PPcoins, and go buy some Bitcoins before they’re back at $200!

About the Author

Jaron Lukasiewicz is the CEO and Founder of Coinsetter, a New York City-based company that offers a high performance levered trading platform for Bitcoin. Prior to Coinsetter, Jaron was the Co-Founder of Ticketometer, a social media-focused online ticketing platform. Previously, Jaron was an Associate at The CapStreet Group, a Houston-based private equity firm; an investment banker at J.P. Morgan and Madison Williams in their global investment banking groups; and began his career as a summer analyst at SPB Partners, a Las Vegas-based private equity firm.

Jaron graduated from Rice University on the President’s Honor Roll with a Bachelor of Arts in Economics and is fluent in Spanish and Portuguese. He is a frequent speaker at events on the topic of Bitcoin and financial technology and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Fox Business News, TechCrunch, Mashable, Entrepreneur, Forex Magnates and other news media.


One of the most biased articles I've ever read. Bitcoin isn't anything like TCP. It's more like the search engine. TCP/IP became standard because there was no other way to build an Internet at the time. Bitcoin already has competitors prior to it even reaching 1.0.

Bitcoin is more like Napster or Yahoo, where when Yahoo first came along there was excite! but the Internet was very small and there was no Google. Google came along and all that first move advantage stuff didn't help Yahoo or excite!. Napster had first mover advantage but was attacked by opposition because it was first, and this could very easily and probably is happening to Bitcoin.

All the press goes directly to Bitcoin. Litecoin only receives the good press.
This will change over time but this is how it currently is. At the same time we have to consider this an opportunity, if there isn't a lot of infrastructure for Litecoin or Netcoin then nothing stops us from building it. Nothing stops sites from accepting an array of alt currencies and when enough people like an alt currency people will switch their sites to support it in addition to Bitcoin.

To say Bitcoin will be the only virtual currency is like saying MasterCard will be the only credit card to ever be accepted on the Internet. That turned out not to be true, not only that but the Internet used to have us dial 1900 numbers to pay membership fees, then we have to give out credit card numbers, but Paypal ultimately made things convenient.

So in my opinion the best sort of software to develop for Netcoin would be software to make using Netcoin convenient. Ubiquitous chrome and firefox extensions, APIs, and of course petition for integration into Payswarm.

When I can easily plug Netcoin functionalities into my source code then it will be used by me.  This means Netcoin will need exquisite developer support cross platform APIs, interface with scripting languages like Python and languages like Visual Basic, so that people don't need to deal with C++ to use the functionality of Netcoin, and interface it with Javascript.

I think if it becomes easy to set up a site and start a Netcoin operated business then the market cap will grow. So what kind of software would need to be developed so you, me or anyone can say "I want to start a Netcoin business", and have the templates all set up? This way any one of us could start a business the same day and have the site up the same day taking in coins.

My idea was to go with the Tubes. I suggested it for PPcoin and said let's make PPTube but the idea got laughed out as being too ahead of it's time. But I think those are the kinds of ideas which will build market cap so I suggest NetTube and to make it simple to make Tubes which run on Netcoin it would be best to create an open source Tube site template so anyone can pay a service provider to set up the Tube site for them for a fee under any domain name they want and people can simply upload their videos while other people pay per view those videos.

I don't see why we cannot make a market place around templates and web services, services for startups to streamline the process and charge Netcoin's exclusively for these services.
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June 27, 2013, 05:05:08 AM
 #758

How about Netcoin form a partnership with Feathercoin ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=243868.0

Of course do this after release but forming an altcoin syndicate is an answer to Bitcoin dominance.
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June 27, 2013, 05:07:21 AM
 #759

Don't know about others but at least I never laughed at your ideas. Though the problem is not the idea is ahead of its time, problem is nobody is willing to step up to take the risk and make it happen.

This is the first tough lesson I learned in entrepreneurial projects. Idea is only the first small step, execution is 99%. If I didn't learn this lesson well, ppcoin wouldn't happen either.

My first advice to netcoin is, limit the scope to the point that you can execute within one year.

My idea was to go with the Tubes. I suggested it for PPcoin and said let's make PPTube but the idea got laughed out as being too ahead of it's time. But I think those are the kinds of ideas which will build market cap so I suggest NetTube and to make it simple to make Tubes which run on Netcoin it would be best to create an open source Tube site template so anyone can pay a service provider to set up the Tube site for them for a fee under any domain name they want and people can simply upload their videos while other people pay per view those videos.

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June 27, 2013, 05:12:54 AM
 #760

I'm watching this.

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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