Bitcoin Forum
May 05, 2024, 11:33:53 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 ... 127 »
  Print  
Author Topic: HOWTO: create a 100% secure wallet  (Read 276149 times)
hashkey
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 26, 2012, 07:25:41 PM
 #1141

I read a lot of suggestions about an offline wallet. If I have a computer that is completely and entirely disconnected from the Internet -- it never connects to a network under any circumstances -- how can I get a transaction it generates onto the network?

I can obviously move the blockchain files between computers, but how will the online client react if it sees data in the files that wasn't there previously? Will it identify "unsent transactions" or something like that and forward them to the network?

I guess you'll just have to trust them when they said "highly unlikely" on the Bitcoin wiki weaknesses section: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Generating_tons_of_addresses

[WTS] 📞 Voice Call & 📩 SMS PV Services 📲 [non-US] ⏱️ Fast Service ✔️️✔️️✔️️ |
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you." ~ Puppet Master
Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714952033
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714952033

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714952033
Reply with quote  #2

1714952033
Report to moderator
MATTTT
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 26, 2012, 07:26:30 PM
 #1142

Oh,and

3)Suggesting people "might want to make multiple copies" is bad advice.  People should *definitely* have more than one copy of their wallet. As you say, "losing your wallet.dat is worse than someone stealing it." but also: Flash drives go bad. Files get corrupted.  Things get misplaced.  Mistakes happen.  2 validated copies is a bare minimum.  I would say that "probably want to make more than two copies (and keep 2 copies on each storage device)" is better advice. 

In the early 90's, I became unable to unlock my PGP secret key - the passphrase I remembered and was sure was correct no longer worked.  Was the file corrupted, or did I somehow misremember it?  I'll never know for sure.  The key wasn't backed up, so I couldn't try or compare with a backup.
Kazimir
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001



View Profile
November 27, 2012, 07:54:24 AM
Last edit: November 27, 2012, 12:43:59 PM by Kazimir
 #1143

I read a lot of suggestions about an offline wallet. If I have a computer that is completely and entirely disconnected from the Internet -- it never connects to a network under any circumstances -- how can I get a transaction it generates onto the network?
You can use armory or brainwallet to sign the transaction offline, and broadcast it using brainwallet.
How? I downloaded the brainwallet.org script and tried it in a disconnected Ubuntu Live session. But in order to create transactions, it seems to require downloading the current balance of the address I'm sending from. I understand why it needs this, but I don't understand how that allows me to create and sign a transaction offline (which can then be broadcasted separately, once you're back online).

Would have made more sense if I could manually enter the current amount of BTC available on the sending address, right?




In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Insert coin(s): 1KazimirL9MNcnFnoosGrEkmMsbYLxPPob
Kazimir
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001



View Profile
November 27, 2012, 08:03:46 AM
 #1144

Oh,and

3)Suggesting people "might want to make multiple copies" is bad advice.  People should *definitely* have more than one copy of their wallet. As you say, "losing your wallet.dat is worse than someone stealing it." but also: Flash drives go bad. Files get corrupted.  Things get misplaced.  Mistakes happen.  2 validated copies is a bare minimum.  I would say that "probably want to make more than two copies (and keep 2 copies on each storage device)" is better advice. 

In the early 90's, I became unable to unlock my PGP secret key - the passphrase I remembered and was sure was correct no longer worked.  Was the file corrupted, or did I somehow misremember it?  I'll never know for sure.  The key wasn't backed up, so I couldn't try or compare with a backup.
+1

And make sure to keep backups on multiple physical locations as well (both in your house as well as outside / online). Gotta consider scenarios like fire, flood, burglary, EMP blast from the local power plant, etc. Yet it's SO easy to avoid this risk. Just email it do some webmail addresses (with different providers, e.g. hotmail/gmail/etc). Dropbox. Send it to a couple of friends of family members ("hey please ignore this message and just leave this file in your archives, thanks"). Of course you do this with encrypted wallets only.

With Bitcoin, there is really NO EXCUSE to lose your money to stupid accidents. Don't be sorry.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Insert coin(s): 1KazimirL9MNcnFnoosGrEkmMsbYLxPPob
Zippe
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 27, 2012, 03:51:58 PM
 #1145

thx for the info
HotDiggityDawg
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 27, 2012, 09:45:44 PM
 #1146

Damn useful stuff, thank you!
Mammootty
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 28, 2012, 03:00:45 AM
 #1147

-= Small Edit: If you need something which is very secure and grandma-style easy, go vote on this poll and add your thoughts to the discussion. =-

Note: I can only post in the newbie forum for now, but if a moderator deems this topic useful, he may move it somewhere else. Right now, I'm too lazy to get 5 posts, just for the sake of it.

Also, there is an excellent article on the Wiki which should give you some ideas about the problem of security. This is meant as a more specific and simple straight-forward guide, i.e I won't spell out where you can find your wallet.dat and so on.


Why?

So, in light of the recent /19BSM]Drama Roll Eyes Kiss and my general feeling that some people are unsure about the security of their wallet (or their PC in general), I've decided to give you an idea how to create a secure savings account for you to deposit your hard-earned coins in.

Clarifications

So, you crazy twat want to invest all your savings in bitcoin, but you're not yet shit-for-brains enough to forget the security aspect of the whole thing? Here's the HowTo for you.

So, the first misconception to clear out, is the concept of the "wallet". The wording in itself is not ideal, since it is more like a key. Cryptographically speaking, it is actually exactly that: your private key.

Now this has the following implication: If someone steals your wallet.dat now, and you deposit coins in it later, the thief will be able to spend/transfer ALL your coins, including those you added _after_ the wallet was stolen! I'm sure a lot of you know this already, I just want to clarify this for everybody.

So, clearly, you have to make it impossible for anybody to _ever_ steal your wallet. Clearly, this is infeasible for your day-to-day transactions account, since encryption will be useless as soon as you want to access your coins (Since the decrypted wallet.dat has to be stored in RAM at some point. There are ways, but for now, consider them a little tedious).

So the solution is the following: you have your spendings-account where you keep only low amounts of coin (much like a real-life wallet), and you have your super-secure savings wallet, which you only access on rare occasions.

How?

I'll try to keep it short: You have to create your savings account under ideal security-conditions. I won't rant about you cunts people using Windows in general, but note that Linux is in no way automagically completely secure. Everything depends a lot on your behaviour.

1. What you'll do is the following: Create a live-CD or a bootable USB with your OS of choice on it. I suggest using the Ubuntu LiveCD.

The reason is simple. When you create your new wallet, you want to make abolutely sure, that your running operating system doesn't in any way log your keys or secretly save your files somewhere.

2. Boot your freshly-created OS, and install the Bitcoin client on it. Yes you can install software inside a liveCD environment. Optionally, also install some encryption software, but we'll leave that for now.

3. Your Bitcoin client will immediately generate 10 addresses for you, and with them, the corresponding wallet.dat.

4. Save your addresses somewhere, if you have to, write them down manually (if you do this, then I bow to your zeal and declare you crazy). I suggest you send them to yourself over email.

5. This is the important step. Copy your wallet.dat somewhere. Burn then on a CD or another medium. I for instance love those little 64MB SD-cards you sometimes get with a new camera. They rock. You might want to make multiple copies (on multiple cards/CDs, not multiple copies of the same file on the same disk you tart).

6. Now, eject whatever you just copied on, and guard it like your life depends on it. Not really, but here is the important step: If you encrypted your wallet.dat with an encryption algorithm you feel safe about, just keep it around your house.

7. Shut down. There will be no trace of your walled.dat on your harddisk, since it never actually resided there.

Important: You will want to keep another copy somewhere else, in a safe physical location, or at least one that is safe while your house burns down. You might already know it, but losing your wallet.dat is worse than someone stealing it. It'll be gone forever.

If you didn't encrypt the file (which I prefer), put the SDcards, CDs, whatever in a safe. That's right: a real-world safe, like banks have, who also happen to lock their doors and are in general very anal about their security and all that jazz. You can rent small safety-deposit boxes in exchange for money. As a bonus, it'll be fire-proof as well.

8. In case it's not yet obvious: You will now only make day-to-day transactions like you used to do it, on your computer (are you _still_ using windows?) and every now and then, you will put some coins into your savings-account. Using the addresses from step 4). How much you want to keep in your wallet is up to you.

But how can I haz my money back?

Okay, for those of you who didn't guess it yet: Whenever you want to make a transaction from your savings-account to someplace else, get your wallet.dat out of the safe, boot up your liveCD (don't you dare using your regular OS after all this work, or I'll come beat you up personally) and do the reverse: Install bitcoin again, install the encryption-software if necessary and copy your wallet.dat where it belongs.

Congratulations: you can now access your 25'000 bitcoins and nobody will have messed with them while you were asleep.

Possible attacks

So now, the _only_ way for someone to steal your coin, will be to steal your physical copy of the wallet. That's why you might want to encrypt it, although if you do, don't forget the passphrase. Also, if you die, your family can still get your bank-safe opened, but they won't be able to pick through your brain and get the passphrase out of it. That's why I prefer to not encrypt it.

There is one more possibility: a physical keylogger: It will be able to intercept the password you use to encrypt your wallet.dat, which, if you keep a copy at home, can then be stolen and used. Another reason, why a regular safe is the best option in my humble opinion.

What else?

EDIT: A little protip for those who don't know: You can of course use blockexplorer.com to keep track of your account while it's safely hidden away. Doing this will simply allow you to see how many coins are associated with a given address.

I suggest you also create new day-to-day wallets (even having a few coins stolen can be frustrating), as your current ones might already have been stolen. Of course, this requires a secure OS, so you better ditch that infected piece of shit fine gear of yours. DON'T just create new wallets on the system you're using right now, since it won't solve anything in case you're already infected.

In addition, it doesn't hurt to read up on some technical details. Use the Wiki. Learn the difference between the amount in your wallet, and the amount on the different block-addresses. If you handle a lot of money, ACT ACCORDINGLY. Don't get all crazy-enthusiastic-venture-capitalist and invest all your savings in bitcoin. Also, don't speculate too much on the price development, you'll make more money if you use that time to work at a regular job.

Now, if you happen to make/have made a significant amount of coins, don't run around telling everybody like the self-satisfied vagina that you are. You wouldn't do that with real money either. At least I hope so.

Also, someone will probably make a bitcoin-specific liveCD, which should save some hassle in the steps above.
Also, take it easy and be a cool guy woh doesn't afraid of anything.
Also, pick up a book every now and then.


Yes, there are other ways to do this, and yes, some might be more practical and maybe just as secure. Write a comment about it.

If anyone has any clarifications, questions, suggestions, or wants to call me a moron, please feel free to do so, and I'll see if there is anything to be improved about it. Also, spelling mistaeks.

Also, in case anybody got all excited by this guide and/or seen the light of Jesus-Christ the saviour AND wants to thank me with coins (why on earth would you do that?), here's my address: 16VD78R8nxqJGesE7E9KS6A8TikQQpKNm5

Have fun. Cool

EDIT: Corrections and added a few insults just for you, dear anonymous reader.
Quoting to bring op to back page so newbs will perhaps read it.  Great info here.
K. Darien Freeheart
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 28, 2012, 06:00:13 AM
 #1148

There is no such thing as a 100% secure wallet.

If the United States government could torture you for your passphrase, it's not secure.

If you can forget it, and deny access to the rightful owner, it's not 100% secure.

Most Bitcoin users are somewhere in between.

Truth. Moving on?
xferion
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 28, 2012, 10:04:24 PM
 #1149

Thanks, very useful information.
Magnate
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


View Profile
November 29, 2012, 07:53:23 AM
 #1150

Once upon a time-you stored your money in a bank. However the money physically sat in the bank and was subject to hold ups. The only thing that made a bank more secure than your mattress was the fact the bank was across the road from the sheriff's office. Transfering money meant stage coach and train hold ups. So money wasn't that secure.

Now if you store your money (which may never physically exist) if the bank is held up it is their issue not yous. So that is a step up in security. However if you have you card stolen or skimmed the crooks can still spend out your account. So protect your card. If you loose it you can cancel it and get a new one, your money will still be accessible.

With your bit coin wallet- the only person who can secure your wallet is you, just like carrying around a wad of cash. If you get mugged poof money gone. House burns down poof money gone.

However unlike a wad of cash you can keep copies of your wallet like have legal photo copies of your cash that can only be spent once. So if your physical bit wallet gets stolen you can still access the coins and transfer them to a new non compromised wallet (assuming you get to them first). House burns down- activate the wallet.dat stored else where.

Big risk I picked up form this thread is securing your computer when dealing with your savings wallet.

How about having a tablet that you never use- unless you were transferring coins in or out of your saving wallet. Less time to get infected, and of course you have virus protection. Android and Apple tablets/phones are probably now more common than pcs- what are the virus issues like on them these days?
htc
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 29, 2012, 06:58:40 PM
 #1151

Hadn't thought about some of this. Thought my bitcoin wallet was secure.

Thanks for the info.
htc
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 29, 2012, 08:30:50 PM
 #1152

If you're still unsure - see this post
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128258.0
yourmadre1
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 30, 2012, 08:14:48 PM
 #1153

Love it, Love it, Love it.


YM
peterepeat
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 237
Merit: 100


View Profile
November 30, 2012, 08:23:58 PM
 #1154

thanks - this is helpful
wdBTCtrader
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 02, 2012, 07:29:17 PM
 #1155

The only secure wallet is one that doesn't touch a network.   

Check out this article.

http://bitcoinmagazine.net/brain-wallets-the-what-and-the-how/
dethdeks
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 206
Merit: 100



View Profile
December 03, 2012, 05:49:51 AM
 #1156

great read thanks for the tips.

Donations Accepted
LTC: Lcv7XmxnHJ7BhRjXjzCUBJ4Cfrq43SA5qc
BTC: 16mHGGVgntqtTmrddud8BFgN3XAsBobvVe
akajester
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 03, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
 #1157

Thanks for this information. Very funny but important.
asc3nsi0n
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 04, 2012, 11:20:20 PM
 #1158

Thanks for the info!
Ex0deus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43
Merit: 0



View Profile WWW
December 05, 2012, 06:16:35 AM
 #1159

Good read.

Has anyone thought of using the Tails LiveCD? its a linux distro with absolutly no logging.
wdBTCtrader
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 05, 2012, 09:59:44 AM
 #1160

Good read.

Has anyone thought of using the Tails LiveCD? its a linux distro with absolutly no logging.


The problem with tails is adding programs and saving the data.  They purposely make it difficult.  Better off using liberte.  much more robust.


]http://dee.su/liberte]
Pages: « 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 ... 127 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!