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Author Topic: Money laundering via BTC  (Read 27219 times)
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January 13, 2017, 03:11:38 AM
 #121

Not really. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous meaning that one can trace back the money to the person who transferred it. Otherwise it is pretty much the same as any fiat.
If with btc transaction only it could be possible, however we need to convert it to fiat so we can use in real world. We do have expenses in life and for sure you know we cannot use our bitcoin to pay for that. If we are not suspected then we are safe but if we are, then it's going to be a problem if you launder funds.

i am confused, the "real world", the "real world" has places everywhere to spend your btc, there is never a reason to transfer the funds to a fiat

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January 13, 2017, 04:05:23 AM
 #122

black money holders always use bitcoins for money laundering.using different set of private keys to keep  their black money,so that they cant be traced .on the other hand they want to make more profit by just selling little by little when the price is high.
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January 13, 2017, 04:19:31 AM
 #123

Yes, Bitcoin can be used for money laundering without any hassle. The pseudo-anonymity of Bitcoin doesn't allow anyone to look into other's reserve.

But in my country, it is only possible to buy Bitcoin via Bank account. So this restricts non-record of money in form of Bitcoin upto certain limits.

I think it hardly matters, if we are unable to stop laundering via fiat money then we have no right to discourage bitcoin on this ground!!

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January 13, 2017, 04:20:03 AM
 #124

black money holders always use bitcoins for money laundering.using different set of private keys to keep  their black money,so that they cant be traced .on the other hand they want to make more profit by just selling little by little when the price is high.
Yeah sure they do, bitcoin hasn't been around too long but all the "black money" holders use it  Roll Eyes And what's this about a different set of private keys to hide the funds, it wouldn't matter what keys the holder had, if the funds are transferred to a bitcoin address then that address is going to show up on the public blockchain for all to see.  

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January 13, 2017, 04:20:27 AM
Last edit: January 13, 2017, 04:31:14 AM by morantis
 #125

black money holders always use bitcoins for money laundering.using different set of private keys to keep  their black money,so that they cant be traced .on the other hand they want to make more profit by just selling little by little when the price is high.

i know what i am doing when moving less than pure white funds and i agree with some of your method observation, but you can't say things like always because nothing is always true in these cases, if these guys ALWAYS, only made caps for effect, not being mean, then none of them would have ever been caught.

and these days it goes beyond just the private keys, it goes all the way into using completely isolated browsers on isolated pc's.  they rarely put that much effort into investigating small time shit, but any criminal activity should been viewed in the light of that show "cold case files", crappy show, but the concept is sound that what you can get away with today just may become elementary when looked at with the technology of twenty years from now.  

edit:

and laundering btc and other coins is one of the best uses for smart contracts.  a shadowed address and key set has a smart contract attached to it that when the address balance reaches X, it fires the balance to 10-100 different addresses in small amounts.  a series of contracts like the first are on those addresses and so on.  within a few seconds, the funds can be shot through thousands of addresses and end up in 1-5 final destination addresses and handled from there.  this is the simplest smart contract.  if the address has 0.9 BTC, a manually created TX for 1 BTC is put together with the single input and 10 outputs, it is sent to the chain but cannot process because the funds are insufficient.  once that address gets another deposit or two and the balance hits the 1 btc mark, the tx completes.  that is not the exact science of the chain, but that is the method of creating the tx

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January 13, 2017, 04:32:35 AM
 #126

Is it possible to do money laundering via bitcoin? I mean as no one knows if you have bitcoin and how much bitcoin do you actually own, it could be used to convert black money to white right? Or at least store your black money without much hassle. But there is the risk of its value but I think for people who have lots of black money and don't want to be caught, this risk might be worth taking for them isn't it?
What are your thoughts?

It is not just bitcoin you can launder. Laundering is nothing new. It just feels easier because we can do it from the comfort of our home on the pc/mobile. Outside the virtual world you would launder your money by buying and selling assets and dilute the money down that way. So instead of buying an expensive painting to hide your black money you can buy bitcoin and launder it. Also you can use the stock market just like you can a bitcoin exchange. The stock market uses fiat though.

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January 13, 2017, 04:39:32 AM
 #127

Is it possible to do money laundering via bitcoin? I mean as no one knows if you have bitcoin and how much bitcoin do you actually own, it could be used to convert black money to white right? Or at least store your black money without much hassle. But there is the risk of its value but I think for people who have lots of black money and don't want to be caught, this risk might be worth taking for them isn't it?
What are your thoughts?

It is not just bitcoin you can launder. Laundering is nothing new. It just feels easier because we can do it from the comfort of our home on the pc/mobile. Outside the virtual world you would launder your money by buying and selling assets and dilute the money down that way. So instead of buying an expensive painting to hide your black money you can buy bitcoin and launder it. Also you can use the stock market just like you can a bitcoin exchange. The stock market uses fiat though.

this is so true.  some of paypal's high end security issues that people bitch about are there because of money laundering through them for at least a good five years.  using 1-5 paypal accounts and the fact that transfers from one account to another were near instant for a long time meant some things could be done through paypal.  plus the fact that paypal would rather sit on a negative balance and chase those people for the money versus prosecution meant smaller risks with the right precautions.

prepaid credit and debit cards have seen a huge boost in laws and regulations because that was an easy way to turn dirty cash or dirty credit cards into easy to spend money. 

just in the last ten years and just using online methods, we have personally seen through our office more than 100 ways to move money with stealth.  keep in mind that just because a method is used to attempt making clean money does not mean that it was sucessful

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January 13, 2017, 04:55:39 AM
 #128

Not really. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous meaning that one can trace back the money to the person who transferred it. Otherwise it is pretty much the same as any fiat.
At least we must use the other extension such as mixer to erasing our trace. All of the elements was building in bitcoin are same with the fiat totally. but the bitcoin has built by the algorithm.

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January 13, 2017, 05:12:48 AM
 #129

Is it possible to do money laundering via bitcoin? I mean as no one knows if you have bitcoin and how much bitcoin do you actually own, it could be used to convert black money to white right? Or at least store your black money without much hassle. But there is the risk of its value but I think for people who have lots of black money and don't want to be caught, this risk might be worth taking for them isn't it?
What are your thoughts?

It is not just bitcoin you can launder. Laundering is nothing new. It just feels easier because we can do it from the comfort of our home on the pc/mobile. Outside the virtual world you would launder your money by buying and selling assets and dilute the money down that way. So instead of buying an expensive painting to hide your black money you can buy bitcoin and launder it. Also you can use the stock market just like you can a bitcoin exchange. The stock market uses fiat though.


Bitcoin is un-regulated as well, so it is very easily and readily available to launder to anyone. Perhaps a lot of criminals are using btc now as tool to launder. And in today world, money laundering is not just cash, you could have money offshore that you want to move. You can just buy bitcoins and transfer them to a any country that you like.



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January 13, 2017, 05:24:05 AM
 #130

Is it possible to do money laundering via bitcoin? I mean as no one knows if you have bitcoin and how much bitcoin do you actually own, it could be used to convert black money to white right? Or at least store your black money without much hassle. But there is the risk of its value but I think for people who have lots of black money and don't want to be caught, this risk might be worth taking for them isn't it?
What are your thoughts?

It is not just bitcoin you can launder. Laundering is nothing new. It just feels easier because we can do it from the comfort of our home on the pc/mobile. Outside the virtual world you would launder your money by buying and selling assets and dilute the money down that way. So instead of buying an expensive painting to hide your black money you can buy bitcoin and launder it. Also you can use the stock market just like you can a bitcoin exchange. The stock market uses fiat though.


Bitcoin is un-regulated as well, so it is very easily and readily available to launder to anyone. Perhaps a lot of criminals are using btc now as tool to launder. And in today world, money laundering is not just cash, you could have money offshore that you want to move. You can just buy bitcoins and transfer them to a any country that you like.




they are adding a lot of "regulations" that affect the bitcoin transfer, these are more aimed toward controlling the movements and info required at fiat endpoints, the thing is that a fiat endpoint is unnecessary at all now because bitcoin can pretty much get anything around here that a USD can.  i found it interesting that you used the term "off-shore", basically digging up a term that referred to fiat accounts, but it is a pretty cool concept to bring into crypto.  the coins themselves are locationless, the network in 147 countries.

if you apply the same rule set that is applied to banking, the location of the banks operating center is the location of the bank account, which is basically electronic funds just like bitcoin until withdrawn as currency.  so, using that rule, if your coins are stored on an exchange, online wallet site or within the wallet files of another type of site(faucet, gambling site, scam, whatever), the location of the business that runs that site is where your account is.  paper wallets are without location.  hardware wallets without location and any and all lost wallets are without location.  countries have just changed the way that international laws are handled.  a russian bitcoin exchange that is exchanging btc to usd follows the russian law set, however, the usa is attacking and heavily controlling the movement of those funds to a usa based bank account or other account.

pretty neat way of thinking about how an intangible object can be seen from so many different ways. 

any reguatlat

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January 13, 2017, 05:52:49 AM
 #131

Not really. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous meaning that one can trace back the money to the person who transferred it. Otherwise it is pretty much the same as any fiat.
At least we must use the other extension such as mixer to erasing our trace. All of the elements was building in bitcoin are same with the fiat totally. but the bitcoin has built by the algorithm.

for the people which using bitcoin for illegal activity maybe they can use the mixer to hidden or delete the trace for this. but for the normal person which using bitcoin daily then i think we don't need the mixer (or we need?) because only us that use the bitcoin and manage it so we can spend our bitcoin without worried.

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January 13, 2017, 05:58:11 AM
 #132

Not really. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous meaning that one can trace back the money to the person who transferred it. Otherwise it is pretty much the same as any fiat.
At least we must use the other extension such as mixer to erasing our trace. All of the elements was building in bitcoin are same with the fiat totally. but the bitcoin has built by the algorithm.

for the people which using bitcoin for illegal activity maybe they can use the mixer to hidden or delete the trace for this. but for the normal person which using bitcoin daily then i think we don't need the mixer (or we need?) because only us that use the bitcoin and manage it so we can spend our bitcoin without worried.

the common user has no reason ever to use a mixer.  possibly in past, but definitely not now.  the governments are pissed at bitcoin, but they are accepting it isn't going anywhere and they are not attacking the everyday user.  those the are trying to hide illegal trades and funds have no need to ever use an "online mixing service".  it is the service that they need, but there are only about 80 trustworthy ones out there are they are highly public, so that defeats the purpose.  policing agencies and government agencies can easily use computers to track the funds in and out of the known public mixers.  you could almost do it by hand for a single "mix"

yes, those people need to do things like mix their coins, but they need to do it themselves

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January 13, 2017, 06:34:36 AM
 #133

I think the money laundering is a very serious problem. their bitcoin many people will certainly be used for money laundering, intelligence agencies will monitor the exact state it. they must develop strategies to immediately reveal the method.
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January 13, 2017, 07:14:24 AM
 #134


Not really. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous meaning that one can trace back the money to the person who transferred it. Otherwise it is pretty much the same as any fiat.
although one people can know where the transaction will stop but is it a person can know who the owner of the bitcoin address? I think no one can find out who the owner of the address of a particular address. so this is still anonymous and could be used for something secret
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January 13, 2017, 07:27:15 AM
 #135

If someone wanted to move $1,000,000 using bitcoins, they would need about 1,428.57142857BTC if the exchange rate was $700 per 1BTC

Anyone with that much BTC? Let's say they'll get it from an exchange. Then that exchange would have to halt trading just to serve one order. That's just for $1M... So would moving a much larger amount be possible with bitcoins provided that the exchange rate is still pegged at $700-$800?
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January 13, 2017, 08:12:27 AM
 #136

If someone wanted to move $1,000,000 using bitcoins, they would need about 1,428.57142857BTC if the exchange rate was $700 per 1BTC

Anyone with that much BTC? Let's say they'll get it from an exchange. Then that exchange would have to halt trading just to serve one order. That's just for $1M... So would moving a much larger amount be possible with bitcoins provided that the exchange rate is still pegged at $700-$800?

you don't move the bulk, you script the entire amount to move in smaller pieces. you are not paying more, the fee is a percentage, so ten 1 dollar tx's pay the same amount as one $10 tx.  i used an exchange earlier as an example, but if you have $1M on an exchange, it is from trading and not dirty, or you moved it there for some stupid reason.  the exchange has your private key and the only scripting you can do is possibly through an API.

$1M dirty is in a wallet that you control and you have the ability to move it in bulk if you want, but you should be scripting smaller moves simultaneously

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January 13, 2017, 08:21:13 AM
 #137

Not really. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous meaning that one can trace back the money to the person who transferred it. Otherwise it is pretty much the same as any fiat.
At least we must use the other extension such as mixer to erasing our trace. All of the elements was building in bitcoin are same with the fiat totally. but the bitcoin has built by the algorithm.

for the people which using bitcoin for illegal activity maybe they can use the mixer to hidden or delete the trace for this. but for the normal person which using bitcoin daily then i think we don't need the mixer (or we need?) because only us that use the bitcoin and manage it so we can spend our bitcoin without worried.
If those people tend to do money laundering they would definitely use mixers because they are wise enough to know the possible things might happen if they dont do such thing.They want to be safe and fully anonymous thats why they use mixers but for an ordinary transactions on legal things then those mixer arent necessary and they are just adding up on fees.

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morantis
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January 13, 2017, 08:24:41 AM
 #138

Not really. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous meaning that one can trace back the money to the person who transferred it. Otherwise it is pretty much the same as any fiat.
At least we must use the other extension such as mixer to erasing our trace. All of the elements was building in bitcoin are same with the fiat totally. but the bitcoin has built by the algorithm.

for the people which using bitcoin for illegal activity maybe they can use the mixer to hidden or delete the trace for this. but for the normal person which using bitcoin daily then i think we don't need the mixer (or we need?) because only us that use the bitcoin and manage it so we can spend our bitcoin without worried.
If those people tend to do money laundering they would definitely use mixers because they are wise enough to know the possible things might happen if they dont do such thing.They want to be safe and fully anonymous thats why they use mixers but for an ordinary transactions on legal things then those mixer arent necessary and they are just adding up on fees.

don't forget that the public mixers are being closely monitored by the government, just do the mixing yourself

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care2yak
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January 13, 2017, 09:00:03 AM
 #139

If someone wanted to move $1,000,000 using bitcoins, they would need about 1,428.57142857BTC if the exchange rate was $700 per 1BTC

Anyone with that much BTC? Let's say they'll get it from an exchange. Then that exchange would have to halt trading just to serve one order. That's just for $1M... So would moving a much larger amount be possible with bitcoins provided that the exchange rate is still pegged at $700-$800?

you don't move the bulk, you script the entire amount to move in smaller pieces. you are not paying more, the fee is a percentage, so ten 1 dollar tx's pay the same amount as one $10 tx.  i used an exchange earlier as an example, but if you have $1M on an exchange, it is from trading and not dirty, or you moved it there for some stupid reason.  the exchange has your private key and the only scripting you can do is possibly through an API.

$1M dirty is in a wallet that you control and you have the ability to move it in bulk if you want, but you should be scripting smaller moves simultaneously


exactly, for it all to be clean, don't move in bulk. but laundering is equated with moving large volumes of cash from one place to another. then with bitcoin, it won't be possible move really large amounts. and with billions of people all over the world wanting to move large volumes of money undetected, would bitcoin and/or other cryptos be their option?
morantis
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January 13, 2017, 09:03:13 AM
 #140

If someone wanted to move $1,000,000 using bitcoins, they would need about 1,428.57142857BTC if the exchange rate was $700 per 1BTC

Anyone with that much BTC? Let's say they'll get it from an exchange. Then that exchange would have to halt trading just to serve one order. That's just for $1M... So would moving a much larger amount be possible with bitcoins provided that the exchange rate is still pegged at $700-$800?

you don't move the bulk, you script the entire amount to move in smaller pieces. you are not paying more, the fee is a percentage, so ten 1 dollar tx's pay the same amount as one $10 tx.  i used an exchange earlier as an example, but if you have $1M on an exchange, it is from trading and not dirty, or you moved it there for some stupid reason.  the exchange has your private key and the only scripting you can do is possibly through an API.

$1M dirty is in a wallet that you control and you have the ability to move it in bulk if you want, but you should be scripting smaller moves simultaneously


exactly, for it all to be clean, don't move in bulk. but laundering is equated with moving large volumes of cash from one place to another. then with bitcoin, it won't be possible move really large amounts. and with billions of people all over the world wanting to move large volumes of money undetected, would bitcoin and/or other cryptos be their option?

again, you simply manually script in all the transactions, move the "bulk" as thousands of small transactions, all at the same time, to different addresses. 

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