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Author Topic: Money laundering via BTC  (Read 27219 times)
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January 19, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
 #221

Someone that is in desperate need of money will offer you a deal and when you decline they will sweeten the pot, and finally beg you to "buy" or "trade".  They need the money and the biggest trust issue with them is the fact that they believe they will come through for you, but may fail, not due to intentional theft.  Crooked scammers keep the deal moving, no matter what. If they lose steam, they lose the mark.  They want you slightly confused, convinced you are not confused and they do not want you seeking advice or catching your breath.  The desperate person has only one deal to offer, but the scammer may produce alternatives and changes to get you to bite.  The scammers last move is to cease talking and drop the ball in your court, stating that their time is very limited.  Someone that is interested in making a deal with honest intent, or trying to honestly help will try for a bit and then leave it to you. The difference in the end from the scammer is that they will leave the future open for you, letting you know that they are there anytime you change your mind, but that they cannot waste more time trying to convince you

No offense intended but you sound as if you were a scammer yourself

And now you are sharing the secrets of the trade with us. Though I disagree that scammers are always keeping the deal moving, no matter what. Once I read some pretty scientific investigation into the matter (namely, into the so-called Nigerian Prince emails aimed at extorting money), and the conclusion was that the scammers drop communication instantly as soon as it becomes evident to them that their target won't bite since continuing would be a waste of time and effort for them



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January 19, 2017, 12:07:20 PM
 #222

Yes it's really possible that there are money laundering in bitcoin because you can you it being anonymous! Actually, according to some articles that I have read, bitcoin is being use illegally in the deep web and we can assume that there are also money laundering there!


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January 19, 2017, 12:14:29 PM
 #223

Someone that is in desperate need of money will offer you a deal and when you decline they will sweeten the pot, and finally beg you to "buy" or "trade".  They need the money and the biggest trust issue with them is the fact that they believe they will come through for you, but may fail, not due to intentional theft.  Crooked scammers keep the deal moving, no matter what. If they lose steam, they lose the mark.  They want you slightly confused, convinced you are not confused and they do not want you seeking advice or catching your breath.  The desperate person has only one deal to offer, but the scammer may produce alternatives and changes to get you to bite.  The scammers last move is to cease talking and drop the ball in your court, stating that their time is very limited.  Someone that is interested in making a deal with honest intent, or trying to honestly help will try for a bit and then leave it to you. The difference in the end from the scammer is that they will leave the future open for you, letting you know that they are there anytime you change your mind, but that they cannot waste more time trying to convince you

No offense intended but you sound as if you were a scammer yourself

And now you are sharing the secrets of the trade with us. Though I disagree that scammers are always keeping the deal moving, no matter what. Once I read some pretty scientific investigation into the matter (namely, into Nigerian scams aimed at extorting money), and the conclusion was that the scammers drop communication instantly as soon as it becomes evident to them that their target won't bite since continuing would be a waste of time and effort for them

lol, no i wasn't, but i have done quite a few high pressure sales jobs and many of them and their employees ride the line close to scamming people.  My last two years in the Navy I was involved in a deep psychology study program.  The government was trying everything to deal with terrorist, including catching them before anything was ever done.  Also, bear in mind i I was making huge sweeping remarks and nothing is always true.  I think the scammer leaves in a hurry because they see that they are not getting anywhere with person A and want to go find person B.  Also, the quick departure is really a ruse, adding intensity and haste to the deal.  Anyone that has time to think and talk to others will likely find the flaws with the scam.  The Nigerian princess was a long scam, taking days sometimes, but I guarantee that if our "princess" was starting to lose some schmuck and pulled a quick reverse, "well, i know that I ask a lot, but I just want to be with you so much.  Maybe we should stop talking, if you aren't going to help me come be with you, it is too much to stand......" the scammer would reel in a quick 50%.  You may not want something really bad, just a little bad, but if someone is taking it away from you, you suddenly have to have it.  I think the quick exit is the last resort before the scammer moves on.

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January 19, 2017, 12:15:26 PM
 #224

Yes it's really possible that there are money laundering in bitcoin because you can you it being anonymous! Actually, according to some articles that I have read, bitcoin is being use illegally in the deep web and we can assume that there are also money laundering there!
Just as expected and we should really think that money laundering is very possible and does exist on darkweb or darknet thats why it being called like that because of the transactions that is happening there.Yes,you are right because bitcoin is anonymous thats why money laundering is really possible.

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January 19, 2017, 12:24:55 PM
 #225

Yes it's really possible that there are money laundering in bitcoin because you can you it being anonymous! Actually, according to some articles that I have read, bitcoin is being use illegally in the deep web and we can assume that there are also money laundering there!
Just as expected and we should really think that money laundering is very possible and does exist on darkweb or darknet thats why it being called like that because of the transactions that is happening there.Yes,you are right because bitcoin is anonymous thats why money laundering is really possible.
[/quote

i have spent a good amount of time on those sites on the darknet.  i never found much outright money laundering as a "service". keep in mind that being the darknet, you get what you search for and not much else.  i hung out on several sites that bought and sold items.  basically craigslist like sites with illegal items and services.  as far as money laundering, does not seem like the way to go.  you would be doing something like buying illegal drugs with your semi-anonymous btc wallet, that's going the opposite direction and making the money dirty again.  there were things like stolen paypal accounts, credit cards accounts and such that might help, but not much.

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January 19, 2017, 12:38:46 PM
 #226

Very simple stuff. Create business, build business, accept btc and buy your own service with your own btc. Pay the small amount of tax and you have clean money. One simple method of hundreds or thousands out there.

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January 19, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
 #227

When notes were banned in November last year, there were many who were selling their banned notes for 30-40% discount via bitcoins and that exactly what money laundering is. It's so easy to convert black into white money as you don't have to prove your source but these trades hamper the reputation of bitcoins. I sell my legal products for bitcoins but then when I withdraw my coins via legal exchanges, I am scared if they will consider my money too fraudulent as there's never a way to prove the source of the bitcoins. It gets transferred from one address to another without any verification and hence it's possibly impossible to prove they were legal funds.
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January 19, 2017, 12:53:24 PM
 #228

When notes were banned in November last year, there were many who were selling their banned notes for 30-40% discount via bitcoins and that exactly what money laundering is. It's so easy to convert black into white money as you don't have to prove your source but these trades hamper the reputation of bitcoins. I sell my legal products for bitcoins but then when I withdraw my coins via legal exchanges, I am scared if they will consider my money too fraudulent as there's never a way to prove the source of the bitcoins. It gets transferred from one address to another without any verification and hence it's possibly impossible to prove they were legal funds.

there are chasing all kinds of people and cracking down here and there.  someone like you is torn between keeping very precise records of everything and creating a huge paper trail, but covering your ass with where the funds came from, went and thus.  the other option is to increase anonymity in every step, erase all paper trails and hide it all, meaning no evidence and at the same time, no proof that what you are doing is legit, lol.

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January 19, 2017, 01:15:46 PM
 #229

Obviously, this is rampant especially because people are doing it online and it is really hard to let them pay for this. If you are using an exchanger site then you are banned I must say that you are already doing the money laundering thingy

There is a difference between money laundering by using exchange and depositing bitcoin on an exchange from jobs. At this days where rich people who wants to money launder and use bitcoin exchange I think won't succeed easily. Exchanges are now clever and probably abiding the law. They are now asking for identification and most probably they might start to ask on what is your source to fund your account or wallet.
They might not be asking for the source of your money right now, because they already got your identification. However should something incriminating turns up tomorrow, they already know where to find you or some good reference points to start with. These things are meant for protecting the society from bad eggs, but often times, they are abused.

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January 19, 2017, 01:22:13 PM
 #230

Someone that is in desperate need of money will offer you a deal and when you decline they will sweeten the pot, and finally beg you to "buy" or "trade".  They need the money and the biggest trust issue with them is the fact that they believe they will come through for you, but may fail, not due to intentional theft.  Crooked scammers keep the deal moving, no matter what. If they lose steam, they lose the mark.  They want you slightly confused, convinced you are not confused and they do not want you seeking advice or catching your breath.  The desperate person has only one deal to offer, but the scammer may produce alternatives and changes to get you to bite.  The scammers last move is to cease talking and drop the ball in your court, stating that their time is very limited.  Someone that is interested in making a deal with honest intent, or trying to honestly help will try for a bit and then leave it to you. The difference in the end from the scammer is that they will leave the future open for you, letting you know that they are there anytime you change your mind, but that they cannot waste more time trying to convince you

No offense intended but you sound as if you were a scammer yourself

And now you are sharing the secrets of the trade with us. Though I disagree that scammers are always keeping the deal moving, no matter what. Once I read some pretty scientific investigation into the matter (namely, into the so-called Nigerian Prince emails aimed at extorting money), and the conclusion was that the scammers drop communication instantly as soon as it becomes evident to them that their target won't bite since continuing would be a waste of time and effort for them

Deisik, you're referring to the "419 scams" that were famous for originating in Nigeria - I think I also read the same research into it. Scammers are a lot more complex in operating than we give them credit for. The 419 scammers aren't much different from the ones here. Wittingly or not, they actually know the type of people most likely to get conned, and will only move the deal for as long as the targets fit the profile. As soon as it doesn't, they drop the target.

The mistake we make is our underestimation of scammers. We liken them to be immature, below average in intelligence and uneducated. While it is true that a lot of their methods are unsophisticated and their language awkward, this in fact can be deliberate and helps ensure the right targets are attracted. And scammers who recognise our underestimation then give us what we want: maturity, intelligence and educated manners.

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January 19, 2017, 01:34:28 PM
 #231

Very simple stuff. Create business, build business, accept btc and buy your own service with your own btc. Pay the small amount of tax and you have clean money. One simple method of hundreds or thousands out there.


The thing there if your business is legit? If you can easily run away by that then you simply can be a part of a money laundering scheme again. Aside from that creating a business is never been easy especially for me(or most of us here small time earners)
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January 19, 2017, 01:39:21 PM
 #232

Illegal activities like money laundering cannot be stopped unless its closely monitored on all wallet sites but there were lots of them threats the wallet of laundering money. Btc has its good foundation if we talk comfort of using it, likewise its not impossible that crypto currency will be more prone to this kind of illegal act of money laundering, you know the reason why? That's because digital currency is not transparent to government authorities unlike fiat currency over banking network is monitored closely. Online wallet site has their own policies for anti money laundering which should be complied prior having a wallet address for bitcoin payments.

.
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January 19, 2017, 01:46:50 PM
 #233

And who documented these cases?

I guess they have been documented exactly by some anti-money laundering agency after they caught someone actually trying out that. Really, how would you know otherwise? If you read about some scheme for money laundering and which is not an outright invention of someone's runaway imagination at that, you can be pretty sure that it had been tried and it didn't work out. Working schemes for laundering money are kept top secret, else they are no longer working since anti-money laundering agencies would be quite familiar with them by that time

Do some research and find out for yourself.

I don't think its fair for people who haven't bothered to educate themselves to speak as if they have knowledge on topics like money laundering.

It might seem improbable to you, but you know nothing on the topic. So that makes sense.

 Smiley

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January 19, 2017, 02:06:11 PM
Last edit: January 19, 2017, 04:56:33 PM by deisik
 #234

And who documented these cases?

I guess they have been documented exactly by some anti-money laundering agency after they caught someone actually trying out that. Really, how would you know otherwise? If you read about some scheme for money laundering and which is not an outright invention of someone's runaway imagination at that, you can be pretty sure that it had been tried and it didn't work out. Working schemes for laundering money are kept top secret, else they are no longer working since anti-money laundering agencies would be quite familiar with them by that time

Do some research and find out for yourself.

I don't think its fair for people who haven't bothered to educate themselves to speak as if they have knowledge on topics like money laundering.

It might seem improbable to you, but you know nothing on the topic. So that makes sense

It was your claim after all that the cases of people using that method to launder money were documented

So it is up to you to provide evidence proving it, namely, who documented them, else you are a loud mouth (no offense, there are many such here). I assume these cases were documented in court rulings and police reports if at all. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with whether I have knowledge on topics like this or not. In this manner, your appeal to education (or lack thereof) is pretty much inconsequential to the point, and you won't be able to get anywhere with that (obviously, I won't bite on this, try another approach). On the other hand, I can just as easily retort that you yourself know nothing about money laundering since you don't provide any proofs and my claim has more substance since you really declined to prove your point, and now what?



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morantis
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January 19, 2017, 02:14:32 PM
 #235

Someone that is in desperate need of money will offer you a deal and when you decline they will sweeten the pot, and finally beg you to "buy" or "trade".  They need the money and the biggest trust issue with them is the fact that they believe they will come through for you, but may fail, not due to intentional theft.  Crooked scammers keep the deal moving, no matter what. If they lose steam, they lose the mark.  They want you slightly confused, convinced you are not confused and they do not want you seeking advice or catching your breath.  The desperate person has only one deal to offer, but the scammer may produce alternatives and changes to get you to bite.  The scammers last move is to cease talking and drop the ball in your court, stating that their time is very limited.  Someone that is interested in making a deal with honest intent, or trying to honestly help will try for a bit and then leave it to you. The difference in the end from the scammer is that they will leave the future open for you, letting you know that they are there anytime you change your mind, but that they cannot waste more time trying to convince you

No offense intended but you sound as if you were a scammer yourself

And now you are sharing the secrets of the trade with us. Though I disagree that scammers are always keeping the deal moving, no matter what. Once I read some pretty scientific investigation into the matter (namely, into the so-called Nigerian Prince emails aimed at extorting money), and the conclusion was that the scammers drop communication instantly as soon as it becomes evident to them that their target won't bite since continuing would be a waste of time and effort for them

Deisik, you're referring to the "419 scams" that were famous for originating in Nigeria - I think I also read the same research into it. Scammers are a lot more complex in operating than we give them credit for. The 419 scammers aren't much different from the ones here. Wittingly or not, they actually know the type of people most likely to get conned, and will only move the deal for as long as the targets fit the profile. As soon as it doesn't, they drop the target.

The mistake we make is our underestimation of scammers. We liken them to be immature, below average in intelligence and uneducated. While it is true that a lot of their methods are unsophisticated and their language awkward, this in fact can be deliberate and helps ensure the right targets are attracted. And scammers who recognise our underestimation then give us what we want: maturity, intelligence and educated manners.

yeah, it's also a lot of work for these guys, not saying they deserve anything, but boring, endless type of work.  like real-life hacking.  there are no fancy gui's to most hacking software, just some code run from the command line.  most of what they do is find a target or two, plug in the ip's or whatever and watch a long, nearly endless string of line after line of failure until something works.  these scammers, more general scammers like the 419 are using bots and scripts to scan websites, chatting with six or more potential marks at a time and all this might end in some big payoff, but likely they will net about the same as you and me, while at the same time looking over their shoulder, waiting for the knock on the door and possibly moving from one place to another, changing names and never having real friends, real family or a real life

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January 19, 2017, 04:09:57 PM
 #236

It was your claim after all that the cases of people using that method to launder money were documented

So it is up to you to provide evidence proving it, namely, who documented them, else you are a loud mouth (no offense, there are many such here). I assume these cases were documented in courts if at all. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with whether I have knowledge on topics like this or not.

Its not a claim.

Its a fact.

You not knowing its a fact is proof you lack knowledge on the topic.

Expecting others to teach you things you have no will to learn on your own, only leaves you at the mercy of those who are educated.

 Smiley

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January 19, 2017, 04:14:07 PM
 #237

I think this all happened in a larger scale when Silk Road was still alive and Bitcoin was unheard of. I would never consider Bitcoin for "hiding" really, in fact blockchain technology is basically a public ledger where it's not that difficult to track private information if you really want (and have the power to enforce it). Check Coinbase latest news and you'll see how easy it is once governments start paying attention. There's a whole other debate about BTC fungibility too and that's what's the deep issue here. Anyone can use most financial tools available for illegal activities, cash is the primary example.
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January 19, 2017, 04:32:14 PM
 #238

I think this all happened in a larger scale when Silk Road was still alive and Bitcoin was unheard of. I would never consider Bitcoin for "hiding" really, in fact blockchain technology is basically a public ledger where it's not that difficult to track private information if you really want (and have the power to enforce it). Check Coinbase latest news and you'll see how easy it is once governments start paying attention. There's a whole other debate about BTC fungibility too and that's what's the deep issue here. Anyone can use most financial tools available for illegal activities, cash is the primary example.

don't forget that even things like paypal had their hay day of money laundering because you technically never showed your face anywhere or proved your identity.  but the big difference is that paypal, forex trading, or whatever someone considers as a function for money laundering is part of the system, within the system.  paypal account balances are meaningless unless they can be sent to another account, bank account or whatever.  the government can fully and completely take over control of paypal if they ever cared to.  bitcoin is a system outside the system.  they can put controls on the avenues in and out of the block chain, but they can't control the block chain. 

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January 19, 2017, 04:38:34 PM
 #239

Go to Marketplace like LBC(localbitcoins) and you will find people buying BTC at much higher rate than Actual rate , for bulk they are offering much more , so who are they?? They are the launders who are converting their excess money to bitcoin.

Yeah..Money becomes headache when you have much..


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January 19, 2017, 04:42:47 PM
 #240

Money laundering will always go on. I matter ehst form we use to trade with. There will always be illigal activity and crime where valuables are consierned. People have murdered one another over valuewbles since the begining of time so they would need to hide where these sudden riches came from as to avoid detection from the law.


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