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Author Topic: Money laundering via BTC  (Read 27219 times)
deisik
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January 25, 2017, 02:13:39 PM
Last edit: January 25, 2017, 03:34:28 PM by deisik
 #321

Did anyone hear about people using Bitcoin to bribe some guy in the government (or elsewhere)?

Is it safe to grease the wheels this way? If no one got caught so far, does it mean that no one actually tried to use bitcoins for exactly this purpose or does it mean that it is just a perfect tool for passing the money under the table to someone and no one can be caught at all. Really, how can such bribes can be traced? After all, you can always back off and claim that this is not your Bitcoin address, and you hear about Bitcoin for the first time in your whole life at that

I haven't heard any, but for sure, if bitcoin is going to be use to bribe a government official, it's going to be anonymous since you can deny an address. But there will come a time that those who were bribed will convert bitcoin to fiat, and that is where everything will start. If you use the money to buy luxury cars or whatever, it will be noticeable and that is where investigation will come and all your properties will become questionable and papers will be asked if you declared it and if it is taxed. Unless when you convert your bitcoin to fiat you use another bank account not related to you or any of your family member or a bank account in other country

This is a long way to go

Really, why should they convert bitcoins to fiat at all if they could just save them as a sort of severance pay ("golden parachute") or their own pension fund? If they agree to be greased with bitcoins, they are apparently valuing Bitcoin, so they might not want to go out into fiat before their time comes. And after, say, twenty years who will remember that some official had been bribed with Bitcoin? On the other hand, the best way to catch both bribers and bribees is to catch them red-handed, i.e. at the moment when they give and receive the bribery. Bitcoin easily solves this bottleneck



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January 25, 2017, 03:27:21 PM
 #322

Yes, money laundering can be done. Thats also a main reason for governments fearing bitcoin. Even if bitcoin is not fully anonymous, bitmixer, crypto mixer are used to hide the identity of bitcoin holders.Even if it fails to give a permanent solution, investing in bitcoins for money laundering can be done for a temporary relief.In india, same situation is happening. More black money holders found bitcoin as their last option to get relief from government actions.

During demonetization it could have happened in India, but the scenario is different with other countries. Israel have given statement that bitcoin transactions were taxable. So India too might make regulations. But most of the money laundering is happening in the form of US dollar.
By following Israel, India will also start to impose tax on bitcoin but it is not guaranteed that it will make the criminals to stay away from bitcoin. For the security from the criminals and money laundering the states need to provide the facilities of life to every citizens as it do not depend on any type of currency. If they will need they will do money laundering in any currency.
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January 25, 2017, 04:55:48 PM
 #323

Yes you can definitely lend money to some one  via  a bitcoin that is a major threat that governments of countries face because it is. a new currency that to it is used for online transactions.But as we all know that it is a pseudo aynonamus currency so hiding black money and then lending is not advisable to do here as if a good codder comes into play and traces your location you have to be answerable to him otherwise you will face the consequences according to the laws of the land where as if you keep it in the form of cash and you come to know indirectly that there is some planning going against you by the legal authorities you can just flush the cash or burn it😂.better than being answerable to someone.
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January 25, 2017, 05:06:34 PM
 #324

yes Money laundering is much easy in Bitcoin , as all information of sender and receiver is hidden
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January 25, 2017, 05:12:59 PM
 #325

Yes you can definitely lend money to some one  via  a bitcoin that is a major threat that governments of countries face because it is. a new currency that to it is used for online transactions.But as we all know that it is a pseudo aynonamus currency so hiding black money and then lending is not advisable to do here as if a good codder comes into play and traces your location you have to be answerable to him otherwise you will face the consequences according to the laws of the land where as if you keep it in the form of cash and you come to know indirectly that there is some planning going against you by the legal authorities you can just flush the cash or burn it😂.better than being answerable to someone.

Yes, using Bitcoin doesn't mean you won't be caught by the police if you are doing illegal things. If an elite squad wants to get a thief, it will. If people on this forum can track addresses to know if they belong to the same person, the police can do it very easier.

And the IP is easy to discover too, so Bitcoin can be used and is used to money laudering, but it's not guaranteed to be succesfully, the police can take who does it anytime.

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January 25, 2017, 05:16:33 PM
 #326

Yes, money laundering can be done. Thats also a main reason for governments fearing bitcoin. Even if bitcoin is not fully anonymous, bitmixer, crypto mixer are used to hide the identity of bitcoin holders.Even if it fails to give a permanent solution, investing in bitcoins for money laundering can be done for a temporary relief.In india, same situation is happening. More black money holders found bitcoin as their last option to get relief from government actions.

During demonetization it could have happened in India, but the scenario is different with other countries. Israel have given statement that bitcoin transactions were taxable. So India too might make regulations. But most of the money laundering is happening in the form of US dollar.
By following Israel, India will also start to impose tax on bitcoin but it is not guaranteed that it will make the criminals to stay away from bitcoin. For the security from the criminals and money laundering the states need to provide the facilities of life to every citizens as it do not depend on any type of currency. If they will need they will do money laundering in any currency.

No country can impose tax on bitcoins. Its impossible to impose tax on bitcoin as they are not controlled by government. What Israel and now India can do is that they will  put tax of bitcoins converting to local currency.Taxes can only be applied when local currency comes in it else bitcoin to bitcoin transcation will always remain tax free.

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deisik
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January 25, 2017, 05:40:24 PM
 #327

Yes, money laundering can be done. Thats also a main reason for governments fearing bitcoin. Even if bitcoin is not fully anonymous, bitmixer, crypto mixer are used to hide the identity of bitcoin holders.Even if it fails to give a permanent solution, investing in bitcoins for money laundering can be done for a temporary relief.In india, same situation is happening. More black money holders found bitcoin as their last option to get relief from government actions.

During demonetization it could have happened in India, but the scenario is different with other countries. Israel have given statement that bitcoin transactions were taxable. So India too might make regulations. But most of the money laundering is happening in the form of US dollar.
By following Israel, India will also start to impose tax on bitcoin but it is not guaranteed that it will make the criminals to stay away from bitcoin. For the security from the criminals and money laundering the states need to provide the facilities of life to every citizens as it do not depend on any type of currency. If they will need they will do money laundering in any currency.

No country can impose tax on bitcoins. Its impossible to impose tax on bitcoin as they are not controlled by government. What Israel and now India can do is that they will  put tax of bitcoins converting to local currency.Taxes can only be applied when local currency comes in it else bitcoin to bitcoin transcation will always remain tax free.

This is a matter of convention mostly

It is not Bitcoin which would be taxed but rather capital gains earned through Bitcoin operations. For example, you buy Bitcoin at one price and then sell it at a higher price, therewith you earned some profits in fiat terms. These profits are called capital gain, i.e. your financial capital has increased through Bitcoin. This increase (capital gain) is taxable, and whether you would call it a Bitcoin tax or a capital gain tax is ultimately a question of personal preferences



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January 25, 2017, 06:23:23 PM
 #328

Yes, money laundering can be done. Thats also a main reason for governments fearing bitcoin. Even if bitcoin is not fully anonymous, bitmixer, crypto mixer are used to hide the identity of bitcoin holders.Even if it fails to give a permanent solution, investing in bitcoins for money laundering can be done for a temporary relief.In india, same situation is happening. More black money holders found bitcoin as their last option to get relief from government actions.

During demonetization it could have happened in India, but the scenario is different with other countries. Israel have given statement that bitcoin transactions were taxable. So India too might make regulations. But most of the money laundering is happening in the form of US dollar.
By following Israel, India will also start to impose tax on bitcoin but it is not guaranteed that it will make the criminals to stay away from bitcoin. For the security from the criminals and money laundering the states need to provide the facilities of life to every citizens as it do not depend on any type of currency. If they will need they will do money laundering in any currency.

No country can impose tax on bitcoins. Its impossible to impose tax on bitcoin as they are not controlled by government. What Israel and now India can do is that they will  put tax of bitcoins converting to local currency.Taxes can only be applied when local currency comes in it else bitcoin to bitcoin transcation will always remain tax free.

This is a matter of convention mostly

It is not Bitcoin which would be taxed but rather capital gains earned through Bitcoin operations. For example, you buy Bitcoin at one price and then sell it at a higher price, therewith you earned some profits in fiat terms. These profits are called capital gain, i.e. your financial capital has increased through Bitcoin. This increase (capital gain) is taxable, and whether you would call it a Bitcoin tax or a capital gain tax is ultimately a question of personal preferences

no, it is a matter of speaking like a human or making up your own words

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January 25, 2017, 06:33:35 PM
 #329

The possibility of laundering through bitcoin is even higher than FIAT because it is now possible to move without trace and I think corporations are now using it as a means for capital flight which cannot be unconnected with the noise been generated by the relevant arm of government and the result of such is coming inform of discouragement in using bitcoin
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January 25, 2017, 06:37:15 PM
 #330

So how does this "money laundry" actually work?

Do you buy every bitcoin you can get your hands on with your dirty money? And if anyone asks where do they come from, you say "i'm an early adapter." Is that it?



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January 25, 2017, 06:37:58 PM
 #331

So how does this "money laundry" actually work?

Do you buy every bitcoin you can get your hands on with your dirty money? And if anyone asks where do they come from, you say "i'm an early adapter." Is that it?

i answered this question three pages back

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January 26, 2017, 02:39:00 AM
 #332

The possibility of laundering through bitcoin is even higher than FIAT because it is now possible to move without trace and I think corporations are now using it as a means for capital flight which cannot be unconnected with the noise been generated by the relevant arm of government and the result of such is coming inform of discouragement in using bitcoin

I disagree....cash leaves no trace but bitcoin publishes a public record of every transaction.  And, the gateway into bitcoin through the fiat markets adds yet another level of transparency that can be tracked.  There are blockchain analytic suites that can be used to do some amazing studies of transactions that take place on the public ledger....Nothing beats cash as far as leaving an untraceable record. Now....it is easier to transport your money via a blockchain, but that's a whole different subject.
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January 26, 2017, 05:40:44 AM
 #333

The possibility of laundering through bitcoin is even higher than FIAT because it is now possible to move without trace and I think corporations are now using it as a means for capital flight which cannot be unconnected with the noise been generated by the relevant arm of government and the result of such is coming inform of discouragement in using bitcoin

I disagree....cash leaves no trace but bitcoin publishes a public record of every transaction.  And, the gateway into bitcoin through the fiat markets adds yet another level of transparency that can be tracked.  There are blockchain analytic suites that can be used to do some amazing studies of transactions that take place on the public ledger....Nothing beats cash as far as leaving an untraceable record. Now....it is easier to transport your money via a blockchain, but that's a whole different subject.
Being anonymous only will only apply if we will not choose to convert our bitcoin into fiat, hence it is true that cash are more untraceable in the event you will choose to use it in money laundering. Lack of education will lead us to a bad situation, if we make a crime, we need to fully understand how the system works so we can make a perfect one.

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January 26, 2017, 05:45:10 AM
 #334

yes Money laundering is much easy in Bitcoin , as all information of sender and receiver is hidden

It is more easier because there are a lot of local and international exchanges who can we use for laundering money. Because most of them are not that strict on implementing their rules regarding on where their customers are getting their bitcoins. There might be some that are strict but still bitcoin users can use tools for hiding its origin.

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January 26, 2017, 06:12:46 AM
 #335

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/20/bitcoin-netherlands-arrests-cars-cash-ecstasy
One of the recent case. There are many more laundering going on as we speak. It is unfortunate that people find one or the other way to misuse Bitcoin every other day.  Sad


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January 26, 2017, 07:58:53 AM
 #336

How can Bitcoin be used as a money laundering method? As a result, they will be asking for the source of these dollars when we convert our BTCs and transfer my bank account in dollars.

They will ask us how we won these BTCs. Then how we will give they an answer.
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January 26, 2017, 08:08:19 AM
 #337

Money laundering is a thing very concerned about many users, of course, there are fears bitcoin if used money laundering so as to make the State prohibit the bitcoin.

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January 26, 2017, 08:15:21 AM
 #338

well, yeah, i actually looked at the location of the OP too, figured that might have been the location they were referring to and not some other country that they may magically get transported to

Because there were different aspects of money laundering from every country were youre living, i guess that this is one of the disadvantage of bitcoin because it breaks this law although i still love it when someone can freely transfered money from any part of the globe through btc
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January 26, 2017, 08:15:39 AM
 #339

Did anyone hear about people using Bitcoin to bribe some guy in the government (or elsewhere)?

Is it safe to grease the wheels this way? If no one got caught so far, does it mean that no one actually tried to use bitcoins for exactly this purpose or does it mean that it is just a perfect tool for passing the money under the table to someone and no one can be caught at all. Really, how can such bribes can be traced? After all, you can always back off and claim that this is not your Bitcoin address, and you hear about Bitcoin for the first time in your whole life at that

I haven't heard any, but for sure, if bitcoin is going to be use to bribe a government official, it's going to be anonymous since you can deny an address. But there will come a time that those who were bribed will convert bitcoin to fiat, and that is where everything will start. If you use the money to buy luxury cars or whatever, it will be noticeable and that is where investigation will come and all your properties will become questionable and papers will be asked if you declared it and if it is taxed. Unless when you convert your bitcoin to fiat you use another bank account not related to you or any of your family member or a bank account in other country

This is a long way to go

Really, why should they convert bitcoins to fiat at all if they could just save them as a sort of severance pay ("golden parachute") or their own pension fund? If they agree to be greased with bitcoins, they are apparently valuing Bitcoin, so they might not want to go out into fiat before their time comes. And after, say, twenty years who will remember that some official had been bribed with Bitcoin? On the other hand, the best way to catch both bribers and bribees is to catch them red-handed, i.e. at the moment when they give and receive the bribery. Bitcoin easily solves this bottleneck

Well, I have no doubt about that, you defend your answer very nice.  Smiley That's true, you need to caught them in the act in order for you to really hav ea solid case against a corrupt politician/ department heads. And that's true even after your term as a government official no one ever remembers you. Unless the one who bribes you make a noise to re surface you and your hidden wealth.

Maybe the ones that will benefit from that bribe are the children, and not the actual person who committed it. Just like how politicians did it, after being thrown out by the people, no wealth is found, and the children turns out to be wealthy later on. Cheesy

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January 26, 2017, 09:34:20 AM
 #340

Easy, if we pursued by large government tax, then the bitcoin can be used as a place to hide our money, I am sure these things happen because a lot of people will choose the risk of loss rather than having to pay taxes.
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