Bitmain Launches the New Antminer T9 Bitcoin Miner

[Biffa]

Higher hashrate

[GWhisper]

The 11.5's are cheaper per TH/s @ $91.8 per TH/s vs $96.4 per TH/s for the 12.5 - seems like a better deal to me.

[Biffa]

It's how bitmain always prices their kit based on hashrate. I didn't say it made financial sense

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Well since I'm running out of s7's to replace with s9's or Avalons ( I *do* have a power limit) I broke down and decided to order a T9 for the farm at work. Ya know, just to round out me having had at least 1 of all Ants except for the s5+ (R1 and U3 don't count).

On a per-THs basis, is a fair bit cheaper than the A741's and on par for power eff. Question still to be seen is, are the T9 as reliable as the Avalons? Only time will tell....

[Tim@BQ]

I don't trust Bitmain in the slightest, no new product they bring out will overcome their very poor business ethics.

Check out my experience here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1836179.new#new

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I don't trust Bitmain in the slightest, no new product they bring out will overcome their very poor business ethics.

Ja your experience with them truly sucks. Thankfully most people fair much better.

The T9 on order will make it 82 Ants I've gotten since 2014 and to date exactly 4 boards failed. 1 from an old s7, 1 from a R4 batch-6 failed after 24hrs and  2 s9 boards 1 a batch 1 the other batch 12, both failed Nov-Dec last year.

[Tim@BQ]

I don't trust Bitmain in the slightest, no new product they bring out will overcome their very poor business ethics.

Ja your experience with them truly sucks. Thankfully most people fair much better.

The T9 on order will make it 82 Ants I've gotten since 2014 and to date exactly 4 boards failed. 1 from an old s7, 1 from a R4 batch-6 failed after 24hrs and  2 s9 boards 1 a batch 1 the other batch 12, both failed Nov-Dec last year.

It's good to know they aren't ripping everyone off. Although I am very hesitant to believe that I would be among the minority who have had such experiences. Based on how I was treated, they do seem to have a certain amount of contempt for their customers, and this could translate into a low quality product.  

I'd like to know who else has had similar horror stories...

[fanatic26]

I have over 100 T9s running with zero failures so far. They clown on the S9 for reliability. IMO the efficiency trade-off is well worth it since its likely an S9 wont run problem free until you reach ROI and it looks like these T9s will.

[Tim@BQ]

I have over 100 T9s running with zero failures so far. They clown on the S9 for reliability. IMO the efficiency trade-off is well worth it since its likely an S9 wont run problem free until you reach ROI and it looks like these T9s will.

I wonder whether the efficiency trade-off translates into selling used equipment from their own mine. The second hand equipment they gave me in replacement of my faulty boards was definitely from their mine, but I wonder if they are selling second hand machines as new.

How long until you reach your ROI do you think? And how long have you been running your T9's?

[tntdgcr]

I have over 100 T9s running with zero failures so far. They clown on the S9 for reliability. IMO the efficiency trade-off is well worth it since its likely an S9 wont run problem free until you reach ROI and it looks like these T9s will.

100% , they are the rock to the S9.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I have over 100 T9s running with zero failures so far. They clown on the S9 for reliability. IMO the efficiency trade-off is well worth it since its likely an S9 wont run problem free until you reach ROI and it looks like these T9s will.

I wonder whether the efficiency trade-off translates into selling used equipment from their own mine. The second hand equipment they gave me in replacement of my faulty boards was definitely from their mine, but I wonder if they are selling second hand machines as new.

How long until you reach your ROI do you think? And how long have you been running your T9's?

Even in China, selling used anything as New violates the law. Sure that only really works for Chinese Nationals as far as prosecuting goes but it IS excellent grounds for FTC to bar imports so. Bottom line is no they don't/can't. For warranty replacement them using reworked/repaired boards is allowed and in fact is very commonplace throughout most electronics industries.

As for getting dirty/dusty miners... Ever been to any large city in Asia? When it's dry they are often very dusty places. The miners are typically all burned in for at least 72hrs in open buildings. Dry out of the rain yes but sucking all that city air well you get the picture.

 

[Tim@BQ]

I have over 100 T9s running with zero failures so far. They clown on the S9 for reliability. IMO the efficiency trade-off is well worth it since its likely an S9 wont run problem free until you reach ROI and it looks like these T9s will.

I wonder whether the efficiency trade-off translates into selling used equipment from their own mine. The second hand equipment they gave me in replacement of my faulty boards was definitely from their mine, but I wonder if they are selling second hand machines as new.

How long until you reach your ROI do you think? And how long have you been running your T9's?

Even in China, selling used anything as New violates the law. Sure that only really works for Chinese Nationals as far as prosecuting goes but it IS excellent grounds for FTC to bar imports so. Bottom line is no they don't/can't. For warranty replacement them using reworked/repaired boards is allowed and in fact is very commonplace throughout most electronics industries.

As for getting dirty/dusty miners... Ever been to any large city in Asia? When it's dry they are often very dusty places. The miners are typically all burned in for at least 72hrs in open buildings. Dry out of the rain yes but sucking all that city air well you get the picture.

 

Just because it's law does not mean they adhere to it, I know many Chinese companies that use bitcoin to evade their taxes, so the law would appear to be relative in many cases. But either way, they are either selling a faulty product knowing that their customers are unlikely to even reach ROI, which is all kinds of wrong. Or they are selling second hand equipment from their own mine despite the law. I had around one third of my boards die within 2 weeks of operations, so one of my 2 scenarios is true.

And as for replacing warranty parts with second hand equipment, I have never received second hand equipment in replacement for broken electronic equipment. Even if it does happen a lot in Asia, it's still a bad practice and shows contempt towards the customer.

[fanatic26]

I wonder whether the efficiency trade-off translates into selling used equipment from their own mine. The second hand equipment they gave me in replacement of my faulty boards was definitely from their mine, but I wonder if they are selling second hand machines as new.

How long until you reach your ROI do you think? And how long have you been running your T9's?

Any machines I have purchased from bitmain used were clearly communicated to me prior to purchase. I have never received used hardware that was sold new. I do apologize for not being able to answer but I do not disclose financial information on this forum. I have multiple batches so there is no specific answer for your final question.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

But either way, they are either selling a faulty product knowing that their customers are unlikely to even reach ROI, which is all kinds of wrong. Or they are selling second hand equipment from their own mine despite the law.

IMHO it is your first one: To squeeze out the highest possible yield of the 16nm chips Bitmain has seriously widened the QA window for what are "usable" vs good vs Prime chips.

Looking at speed/hash rate spread between boards I'd guess at least 3 levels are used for binning chips to be used when populating boards targeted for highest efficiency miners (s9/R4). Hopefully humorous example would be 'meh', good to very good, and finally best. Given the typ yield of 16nm that makes for probably 2-3x more 'meh' to good (say >80% of cores work) chips than best (>90% cores work at full speed) grade so....

Tie that with lapses in board assembly quality checks... On the 2 s9 boards I had fail the placement and soldering of the VRM was -- horrible. Frankly, surprised it passed at all considering the module was rotated enough to be just literally a hair breadth away from shorting right off the bat. How/why that wasn't caught by an inspection camera, who knows...

With the T9 hopefully their sacrificing eff by pushing the Vcore higher is what results in otherwise 'good' grade chips performing as very-good or better. As to the board assembly - who knows...

[Tim@BQ]

But either way, they are either selling a faulty product knowing that their customers are unlikely to even reach ROI, which is all kinds of wrong. Or they are selling second hand equipment from their own mine despite the law.

IMHO it is your first one: To squeeze out the highest possible yield of the 16nm chips Bitmain has seriously widened the QA window for what are "usable" vs good vs Prime chips.

Looking at speed/hash rate spread between boards I'd guess at least 3 levels are used for binning chips to be used when populating boards targeted for highest efficiency miners (s9/R4). Hopefully humorous example would be 'meh', good to very good, and finally best. Given the typ yield of 16nm that makes for probably 2-3x more 'meh' to good (say >80% of cores work) chips than best (>90% cores work at full speed) grade so....

Tie that with lapses in board assembly quality checks... On the 2 s9 boards I had fail the placement and soldering of the VRM was -- horrible. Frankly, surprised it passed at all considering the module was rotated enough to be just literally a hair breadth away from shorting right off the bat. How/why that wasn't caught by an inspection camera, who knows...

With the T9 hopefully their sacrificing eff by pushing the Vcore higher is what results in otherwise 'good' grade chips performing as very-good or better. As to the board assembly - who knows...

Your assessment is plausible, and if its true, then Bitmain has turned into the MacDonald's of the Crypto industry, willing to sacrifice quality for profit. I'm sure they will start to feel the results of this approach soon if they keep it up. I guess time will tell how their T9's go, but I for sure will not be doing any more business with them.

[lkthomas]

It's nearly impossible to run into profit with this thing, ROI for the unit cost is nearly 1 year, not yet count for rents, air-con, electricity and labor cost.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

It's nearly impossible to run into profit with this thing, ROI for the unit cost is nearly 1 year, not yet count for rents, air-con, electricity and labor cost.

For you maybe. If so, don't buy it
For folks like me, it and its brethren do pay for themselves and generate profit in reasonable time just fine.

[italianMiner72]

new S9 batch is coming...
https://twitter.com/BITMAINtech/status/849929336064942081
someone already know the unit price?

[Tim@BQ]

It's nearly impossible to run into profit with this thing, ROI for the unit cost is nearly 1 year, not yet count for rents, air-con, electricity and labor cost.

Bitcoin mining has become too centralized because of what you mention, mainly because the initial investment is pretty significant, for unit price and setup costs. Bitmain is too interested in profits to give smaller miners a chance at getting into the game. Plus the T9's 11.5TH is nowhere near powerful or efficient enough to give substantial enough returns for the price they ask. But running costs can be reduced if you setup in the right environment, as well as labor if you have the skills to do most of the work yourself. I think Bitmain just serves the big miners now, so if you're a small miner best to look into other crypto's to mine.

[fanatic26]

I think Bitmain just serves the big miners now, so if you're a small miner best to look into other crypto's to mine.

The entire bitcoin ASIC industry serves the big miners. Ebit, BW, and Bitfury dont even sell individual units.

Thats what altcoins are for.