Data Center Mining Garage and Man Mining Cave

[thesavoyard]

Thanks to both of you. So Monero is where it's at at the moment? It's too late to not get the 6gpu rig. I had ordered everything before I posted . I am going to put some more money to mining by summer so I'll make sure I do that first. I can start with the money I was going to put into a Baikal mini miner. It's too old now to ROI I think. Maybe I'll do 50% Dash and 50% Monero just to hedge?

[m1n1ngP4d4w4n]

I dont know why ppl connect 2 or more psu`s.

Problem is equalizing currents, that always destroy one of psu. Faster or slower but always do this.

Regards

I don't agree with you, i use dual psu in all my 12x rigs, and it work beautifully, you just have to link them properly, and respect some guideline with load balancing & power distribution, if you don't have limited space (because of course the rig is a bit bulkier) it does a good job at keeping the psu bill low because 2x650w psu will cost less than 1x1300w psu of the same quality, you also get more cables so it save on clutter of added adapters & such. Especially for me because i was facing huge issue of connecting everything since my gpu's were using 2x8pin power supply input. It also smooth out all the power through the rig.

Thanks to both of you. So Monero is where it's at at the moment? It's too late to not get the 6gpu rig. I had ordered everything before I posted . I am going to put some more money to mining by summer so I'll make sure I do that first. I can start with the money I was going to put into a Baikal mini miner. It's too old now to ROI I think. Maybe I'll do 50% Dash and 50% Monero just to hedge?

GPU mining is more or less always viable, ASIC mining is really hard to ROI, i don't recommend it if you are going to be a "casual" miner, as for GPU mining, just use whattomine website to give you an idea of current profit/revenue, XMR (Monero) isn't very good to mine with nvidia nowadays, you have alot more stronger contenders (refer to my earlier post about this)

Here is a basic WTM link with base 4x GTX 1070, to you after that to tweak with your numbers & wattage & electrity cost, but it'll give you a rough idea already.

WTM - 4x GTX 1070 - immediate profit

[philipma1957]

I dont know why ppl connect 2 or more psu`s.

Problem is equalizing currents, that always destroy one of psu. Faster or slower but always do this.

Regards

You are wrong in my opinion.

Proper riser setup  isolates one psu from the other.

Look at this

https://www.amazon.com/Eyeboot-Port-110-120V-amps-port/dp/B01EB33JOK/ref=sr_1_2?


the psu inside it  is isolated from the mobo.  Same principle for powered risers.
Only data goes to the mobo

[induktor]

I dont know why ppl connect 2 or more psu`s.

Problem is equalizing currents, that always destroy one of psu. Faster or slower but always do this.

Regards

Hello
Not exactly
I Build a farm for a client with 64 machines in the litecoin era, using 2 bridged PSUs (sentey 850W SS series (superflower design)) and worked perfectly, not 1 of the power suppies failed nor the GPUs after two years, we sold all by now (I still have like 15 of those power supply, bought in 2013, and stil works perfectly.

there are several secrets for this:

1) the power supply must be identical (brand, model and power rating and 80+ rating).
2) you need an add2psu gadget (i made my own, which is basically a reed relay, when it senses 5V it turns the second PSU on)
3) you need dual conversion PSUs (usually found only on PSUs above 900W or so) what i mean is PSUs that converts the entire energy into 12V single rail, and then uses VRM to generate 5V and 3.3V, the cheaper PSUs converts using different taps in the transformer for each voltage, that ones dones not work, because the second psu (which does not power the motherboard, only the GPUs) had the +5V not loaded, and since those cheap PSUs regulates over the 5V line, and not on the 12V line like the dual conversion models,  the voltage keeps going up and down all the time, eventually fucking something up or the PSU itself.
So the most importan factor DUAL CONVERSION PSUs is a MUST. they are easy to spot , if you see a vertical VRM board with big coils, then it's dual conversion and it is good for dual PSU usage.
4) and finally, the first PSU MUST power the motherboard and ALL OF THE RISERS, this is extremely important, because the risers voltage shares the line with the PCI-Express bus and if there is a tiny litte difference in voltage all hell break loose.

the second PSU powers the 6 and 8 Pin conectors on the GPU (i also power the first GPU with the first power supply) to balance the consumption between the GPUs, you have to measure current with a clamp meter that can read DC AMPERES (not many can do that, i have the APPA A18+ clamp meter that can read DC AMPERES perfectly) so measuring you know how much each psu is being loaded.

if you need any specific data ask me, i will be glad to help.
cheers
indkt.

[philipma1957]

I dont know why ppl connect 2 or more psu`s.

Problem is equalizing currents, that always destroy one of psu. Faster or slower but always do this.

Regards

Hello
Not exactly
I Build a farm for a client with 64 machines in the litecoin era, using 2 bridged PSUs (sentey 850W SS series (superflower design)) and worked perfectly, not 1 of the power suppies failed nor the GPUs after two years, we sold all by now (I still have like 15 of those power supply, bought in 2013, and stil works perfectly.

there are several secrets for this:

1) the power supply must be identical (brand, model and power rating and 80+ rating).
2) you need an add2psu gadget (i made my own, which is basically a reed relay, when it senses 5V it turns the second PSU on)
3) you need dual conversion PSUs (usually found only on PSUs above 900W or so) what i mean is PSUs that converts the entire energy into 12V single rail, and then uses VRM to generate 5V and 3.3V, the cheaper PSUs converts using different taps in the transformer for each voltage, that ones dones not work, because the second psu (which does not power the motherboard, only the GPUs) had the +5V not loaded, and since those cheap PSUs regulates over the 5V line, and not on the 12V line like the dual conversion models,  the voltage keeps going up and down all the time, eventually fucking something up or the PSU itself.
So the most importan factor DUAL CONVERSION PSUs is a MUST. they are easy to spot , if you see a vertical VRM board with big coils, then it's dual conversion and it is good for dual PSU usage.
4) and finally, the first PSU MUST power the motherboard and ALL OF THE RISERS, this is extremely important, because the risers voltage shares the line with the PCI-Express bus and if there is a tiny litte difference in voltage all hell break loose.

the second PSU powers the 6 and 8 Pin conectors on the GPU (i also power the first GPU with the first power supply) to balance the consumption between the GPUs, you have to measure current with a clamp meter that can read DC AMPERES (not many can do that, i have the APPA A18+ clamp meter that can read DC AMPERES perfectly) so measuring you know how much each psu is being loaded.

if you need any specific data ask me, i will be glad to help.
cheers
indkt.

we are talking apples and oranges.

your bridge method is one of many ways to use multiple psus on a rig. as you describe it that will work.

Other methods are 1 small psu like this for the mobo


https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151113&cm_re=seasonic-_-17-151-113-_-Product


and a beast like this  for riser gpus


http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-39Y7415-IBM-BLADECENTER-H-2980-WATT-POWER-MODULE-39Y7414-/201803375432?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=966135.0


two small psus plus the beast  and you can run 12 gpus

[induktor]

I dont know why ppl connect 2 or more psu`s.

Problem is equalizing currents, that always destroy one of psu. Faster or slower but always do this.

Regards

Hello
Not exactly
I Build a farm for a client with 64 machines in the litecoin era, using 2 bridged PSUs (sentey 850W SS series (superflower design)) and worked perfectly, not 1 of the power suppies failed nor the GPUs after two years, we sold all by now (I still have like 15 of those power supply, bought in 2013, and stil works perfectly.

there are several secrets for this:

1) the power supply must be identical (brand, model and power rating and 80+ rating).
2) you need an add2psu gadget (i made my own, which is basically a reed relay, when it senses 5V it turns the second PSU on)
3) you need dual conversion PSUs (usually found only on PSUs above 900W or so) what i mean is PSUs that converts the entire energy into 12V single rail, and then uses VRM to generate 5V and 3.3V, the cheaper PSUs converts using different taps in the transformer for each voltage, that ones dones not work, because the second psu (which does not power the motherboard, only the GPUs) had the +5V not loaded, and since those cheap PSUs regulates over the 5V line, and not on the 12V line like the dual conversion models,  the voltage keeps going up and down all the time, eventually fucking something up or the PSU itself.
So the most importan factor DUAL CONVERSION PSUs is a MUST. they are easy to spot , if you see a vertical VRM board with big coils, then it's dual conversion and it is good for dual PSU usage.
4) and finally, the first PSU MUST power the motherboard and ALL OF THE RISERS, this is extremely important, because the risers voltage shares the line with the PCI-Express bus and if there is a tiny litte difference in voltage all hell break loose.

the second PSU powers the 6 and 8 Pin conectors on the GPU (i also power the first GPU with the first power supply) to balance the consumption between the GPUs, you have to measure current with a clamp meter that can read DC AMPERES (not many can do that, i have the APPA A18+ clamp meter that can read DC AMPERES perfectly) so measuring you know how much each psu is being loaded.

if you need any specific data ask me, i will be glad to help.
cheers
indkt.

we are talking apples and oranges.

your bridge method is one of many ways to use multiple psus on a rig. as you describe it that will work.

Other methods are 1 small psu like this for the mobo


https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151113&cm_re=seasonic-_-17-151-113-_-Product


and a beast like this  for riser gpus


http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-39Y7415-IBM-BLADECENTER-H-2980-WATT-POWER-MODULE-39Y7414-/201803375432?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=966135.0


two small psus plus the beast  and you can run 12 gpus

Holy crap!, i want that PSU!!, awesome!, too bad it is impossible to find it here in south america.

same applies, using this beast as second PSU, will work as well, as long as all the risers are powered by the primary PSU (the one that powers the motherboard) and... the turn on must be simultaneous, up to the milisecond range, that's why i always use two identical PSUs, you can test it with a digital storage oscilloscope (any cheap one will do) to see the startup time.

actually... with one psu like that, you can directly design the power on circuitry of the motherboard, and power the entire rig with that IBM blade beast.

all you need is a small SMPS to power +5VSB, +5V and +3.3, and a 4 relays (well you can do it with powermosfets too if you wanna work a little more jeje) to turn on all the rails, if I manage to get one of those i will do it, just for the fun of it, also the efficiency of that psu is probably better than 80+ platinum, serious stuff! so it's a win win.

thanks for the data, i didn't knew that psu at all.
indkt

[Finksy]

The older style ribbon cable risers (even the "powered" type) allowed crosstalk between PSU's, as they still shared 3.3V/5V circuits.  


Only USB risers allow completely independent powering by more than 1 PSU.  That is all I and many others do, use smaller PSU's to power motherboard, risers and SSD's and use server PSU's to power 6+2 pin connectors on GPU's.  This saves lots of money over buying large single ATX PSU's, or even multiple smaller ATX PSU's.

My new option now allows the ability to power even 7-GPU rigs strictly with server PSU's.  Here's a 2-rig setup with 14x RX 470's using an IBM 2880W PSU:


Please excuse the wiring mess.  I put this together quickly yesterday for Nhan to show him how it can be done.  Each rig can be independently powered on, off or rebooted as normal with the Pico PSU.  Here you can see it in the 24P slot:



So the parts required to make this work are:

24Pin Pico PSU with SATA connector to power SSD
6pin PCIe to EPS patch cable for motherboard
PCIe 6pin-powered risers (with on-board voltage converters for 3.3/5V)

a bunch of PCIe 6pin and 6+2pin splitter cables

[yslyung]

too much quoting & talking

single server PSU is best simplest solution & cost effective. ATX PSU will NEVER ever beat a server or enterprise grade PSU especially with customized cables.

pic does the talking (as per OP's request for more pics)



i still have few dps, working mods on them for 7 or more GPU rigs & can fully utilize them as power is not an issues anymore.

[deadsix]

So the parts required to make this work are:

24Pin Pico PSU with SATA connector to power SSD
6pin PCIe to EPS patch cable for motherboard
PCIe 6pin-powered risers (with on-board voltage converters for 3.3/5V)
a bunch of PCIe 6pin and 6+2pin splitter cables

Okay see now THIS IS WHAT I NEED you have a convert here Finksy, I see the Server Way now
When would you have these bundles ready? I believe I will be super interested in a jumbo bundle that has 2 4K PSU's each capable of running 5 rigs, so something like
The "Big Momma" 8KW Package - $???

(Add a 50A circuit and go big, with PDU included for clean, simple & safe install)
 - 4x DPS-2000 PSU's
 - 2x Standard 4K Breakout Boards
- 10x 24Pin Pico PSU with SATA connector to power SSD
 - 10x 6pin PCIe to EPS patch cable for motherboard
 - 2x Steel sideplates and hardware for mounting fans
 - 1x 50A 4-port PDU with 15A breakers for each circuit (40A continuous)
- 60x 36" PCIe 1X2(split) 6 pin PCIe cables
 - 4x C19 power cables of choice (see below for stock)
 - 4x 120mm hydraulic bearing 180CFM fans

Any chance of us seeing something like that in the near future? I would be super interested in getting a few of those.

[arielbit]

server PSU's specially the powerful ones aren't available from where i live, i'm doing the 2x PSU setup since 2013.

server PSU's aren't "single" in terms of running/troubleshooting the entire power supply, you have to have the break out boards, the step down device from 12v to 5v, the pico adapter that makes server PSU desktop motherboard compatible and that's 4 pieces of stuff.

i was planning to buy and ship a server PSU with the 3 other stuff to run it, but then i found a seller in my area selling 130$ for a seasonic platinum 1200W and gold 1250W and about 112-120$ for a seasonic platinum 1000w...bought a bunch, the 1000w i bought is slightly used and the others (2x 1200w and 1x 1250w) are unused.. I'm very happy with the purchase  

[yun9999]

too much quoting & talking

single server PSU is best simplest solution & cost effective. ATX PSU will NEVER ever beat a server or enterprise grade PSU especially with customized cables.

pic does the talking (as per OP's request for more pics)



i still have few dps, working mods on them for 7 or more GPU rigs & can fully utilize them as power is not an issues anymore.

This is the same picture.  What we're interested in seeing is how you're able to fully power it all via Server PSU?  Are you using Pico PSU, if yes, what is powering that Pico PSU, SSD, etc.  The Cabling is very clean, I like it.

[yun9999]

All great conversations.  Please remember there is NO 1 SOLUTION Fit all answer.  Get what makes the most sense for you.  There is always talks about Theories but nothing beats real life experience.  I had a rig with 7 GPU and 1 MB fried, and if that rig was on a Dual PSU solution, I would have blamed it on that but it was powered by 1 single EVGA 1300.  I have hundreds of GPUs, and I'm very careless when busy.  I often turn on power of the ATX before the Server PSU, etc all the time with no issues.  The reason for this is that the ATX controls the power to the Motherboard and if that is not on, the system doesn't power on.  Even if it's powered on and the server PSU was off, then you just wont' see any video as there's no power to the GPUs.  I haven't killed any GPUs with my Dual PSU setup nor need any other fancy contraptions such as P2PSU even when I was using Dual EVGA with the 2nd having the MB cable shorted to power use as a 2nd PSU.  My only death were and RX470 explosions were on "SINGLE" ATX rigs but again if I haven't experience that and the first issue started on a rig that was Dual PSU, I would have completed blame it on that and never use Dual PSU again.  


The only thing to remember when choosing the power Supply options from Finksy is this.

2880 /2980 PSU is larger but sit flat.  They already comes with fans so no special Fan mount needed but they are the smaller high RPM fans that makes really LOUD noise.  So these are best for Hosting sites or where noise is not a concern.  The 2980 are Platinum grade so yeah, you're getting a BEAST that is super efficient!  T

2K x 2 PSU combined making 4K Bundle.  The 2KW are close to GOLD ratings and there is a Platinum version as well in the same compact shape but is more than 2KW.  It is a little more $$ but is worth it in the longer run.    You can upgrade later if you want as they use the same breakout board which is really awesome.  Finksy can chime in on the price / availability on that. I like this bundle because I can choose the fan type base on my needs and they're not very noisy depending on which fans you choose.   These have 30 PCI connections so I can power up to 5 x RX470 rigs if I wanted to with 1 4KW bundle.  I can also stack and I do this for the Shed, another 4KW bundle on top of the first one.  If you have dual PCI GPUs, it's also very expensive to buy more Dual PCI cables for EVGA. I had to do this for my Furies. 

So for my personal use, I use ATX only for rigs I often move around (Portable heaters for winter) or Server case.  For all else I use Server PSU just for the sole reason of FLEXIBILITY.   I can power on any GPU I want whether it's RX470/480 today or Vega 10 tomorrow.  I don't have to worry about the old or future days of using 2 x EVGA 1300 for 1 x 6/7 GPU 390 rig or having to buy expensive $400 EVGA 1600 / Corsair Titanium 1500 which still may not be sufficient to handle a power Hungry 7 GPU rig.  You can see from the previous picture, my Corsair Titanium 1500 is idle as I find it not cost effective to use just to power 1 Rig vs multi with Server PSU.  Maybe time to Ebay it.  I like GOLD andPlatinum as it save me Electricity cost but the Premium for that on ATX is very high.  Titanium is not really necessary but great for bragging rights.  =)  Server PSU may not work for everyone as many rigs are depending on 1 single point of failure, so it's best to have spares.  Fortunately spare PSUs are super cheap.  =)

@ Finksy - Please work on an PCI adapter option similar to the Panda where I can plug PCI from my GPUs inside the server case to a breakout board on the inside and acts as PCI bridge with ports on the outside where the Server PSU cable can plug into it.  This will allow easier disconnects and let me use a Pico PSU inside.  That would be a good solution for 2980 PSU as they can be support inside the rack via horizontal support panel.

Like this but with just 8 PCI ports.  That area will be mostly empty since there won't be an ATX PSU there just a cable in for the Breakout board n Pico.


If you can do that I can Power all my server cases with Server PSU while being able to disconnect power easily from the outside when I need to service my rig.

[thesavoyard]

 So for you experienced GPU miners, I know our GPU have resell value after their mining cycle, but how long will that be? In your experience how long do cards make money after ROI? I'm hoping my rig can mine for 3 years, then I can cash in a few hundred each, they'll still run BF1 on ultimate in 3 years so they'll still have value.

[m1n1ngP4d4w4n]

So for you experienced GPU miners, I know our GPU have resell value after their mining cycle, but how long will that be? In your experience how long do cards make money after ROI? I'm hoping my rig can mine for 3 years, then I can cash in a few hundred each, they'll still run BF1 on ultimate in 3 years so they'll still have value.

I don't think anyone will be able to tell you, the market fluctuate, if BTC crash it's possible gpu mining will crash, or on the reverse explode, but ATM gpu is the safest to go for mining. But count 1y to roi and 1 more year mining ,after that it's uncertain, but depending on electricity price you can mine forever, you still have GTX970 that does profit

[Bulletdodger]

Nice work!

One thing though:
you said 1070's dont convert as well on Nicehash - yet mine is making $1.2-1.5 on equihash (nicehash) and WTM site says $1.2-$1.4 (changes all the time),
so I think NH is pretty darn good (if sometimes not better than mining with classic tools).

[yun9999]

They pay you in BTC not ZEC and prices fluctuates based on what hash renters are paying.  In General you will get less, this week just happens to be close.  On the flip side, you get very high hash rate for NVDIA 1070 using their mining software.  

As I was working, My CHEAP Uncle visited.  Better cheap then no UNCLEs at all.

[reelen]

@ Finksy - Please work on an PCI adapter option similar to the Panda where I can plug PCI from my GPUs inside the server case to a breakout board on the inside and acts as PCI bridge with ports on the outside where the Server PSU cable can plug into it.  This will allow easier disconnects and let me use a Pico PSU inside.  That would be a good solution for 2980 PSU as they can be support inside the rack via horizontal support panel.

Cannot +1 this enough.  I was actually thinking of taking all the backplates off the rosewell cases and carefully wire the GPUs up with extenders, but servicing and mobility would be a nightmare.

I didn't get nearly enough done this weekend, so can't show you are completed version of my growing home farm, but here are a couple pics of rigs running smoothly along with an example of Finksy's 4k combo kit in action powering 12 R9 390s with ease.

Cant thank this community enough for helping us new guys out.  Hope to pay it forward to others!




Most awesome thing ever too....got my girl to help me build as rig.  She did a WAY better job at cable management than me.  Told her she has to do the rest of them from now on.

[yun9999]

Reelen. Now light up them sexy Sapphire LEDs!!! Now I know your secret for the fast build, GF helping out.  Looking good Bud!

[reelen]

Reelen.  Light up them sexy Sapphire LEDs!!!  Now I know your secret for the fast build, GF helping out.  Looking good Bud!

Fine fine, secret weapon indeed!

FYI all, goal is to clean up wiring once all rigs are built (soon).

[yun9999]

The side View of the MSI opened case looks incredible.  Got to love my Signature Power button.