[Group Buy#1] Avalon ASICs CHIPS! Using JohnK as escrow! FINISHED!

[redphlegm]

Congrats everyone, it seems this mess is almost over.

I am so happy to see that I will get most of my BTC back from this group buy!

It is only a matter of time before JohnK gets everything sorted out.

Everyone please fill out the form to expedite the refund process:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Db9Xx8NYvjnq-Pm7MmuVgWauTP1qSaFRyemI_sa5DkA/viewform

So again, my name is not reflected in the original spreadsheet, i bought the chips from two people in that (dserrano5 and atsecure) - how should i go about this?

Should i fill this out twice and match it to both of them?  that's the only way i can see it making sense

You can fill out the form as yourself and have them fill it out. The form is for those who have sold as well as those who have bought.

ok i guess, I'll send them a PM to request they fill it out as well, that would be the smoothest way

I filled out a single one for me and provided all the links and proof on my end

btw not that it really matters, but i'm pretty sure BTC addresses are actually NOT the public key but a hash(hash(public key)) or something.

But yeah, i put 'ecliptic' in the field about "name in original spreadsheet" even though it's not there.  It should have been but the spreadsheet was never updated due to ragingazn's situation

I just want to make sure it's not a dumbfire automatica computer match between the original spreadsheet and this form, because if so it will falsely say i don't have any chips in this group buy.

No, I understand and have taken this into account when creating the backend spreadsheets (yes, there are multiple). What I can't promise, however, is that John will use it / them. Ultimately it will be he who resolves all of this in the way he deems proper / correct.

[nebiz]

Whew, I confirm that I've received the refund from Avalon to my address. Thank you everyone here for being patient and going through this - hopefully we can set this behind us in no time after I get a completed list and have time. Hopefully I can complete this before/on the weekends.

Hi John,

Can you clarify your desired method of bitcoin address posting for refund processing?


Everyone else,

He obviously can't refund to addresses contained in a spreadsheet that someone else has had write access to, as they could have changed the addresses.

There are a lot of refunds to process, just wait it out. What are you going to do, move your BTC to fiat? The best course is slow and steady, as always.

[nebiz]

Cursory examination of the google doc on OP shows total chips to be 10851.83, or 10836 if all values are truncated.



This spreadsheet is a mess.  Note to all; colors in spreadsheets are not a good way to show data.  It doesn't always sort properly, and it makes it difficult to include cells in subsequent calculations.  For instance, a bunch of these rows are red.  Does that mean they aren't included?  

Ugh.  I've got my work cut out for me.

Edit: Evidently chip sales were represented at the end of the spreadsheet.  All's well.  I'm copying to a new spreadsheet to get rid of some of the crazy clutter.

That might not be the original spreadsheet that was used. Originally colors denoted short term communication information only, no important information was stored with color.  Please refer to my conversations with JohnK and RaginAzn in this thread to discover the spreadsheet that the group buy was closed with. From there, please affix your additional transaction history after reformatting that to clearly express the new relevant data (e.g. chip totals now mean nothing, only BTC paid has meaning).

edit: And, of course, great work taking this on.

[bigbeninlondon]

I think the spreadsheet that I've posted contains all the pertinent information.  I understand that bitcoin was the measurement, and not chips (although why that was is beyond me; it's a lot easier to split bitcoin than chips).  This is why my sheet contains rounded information as well, since we couldn't feasibly split chips.  I can fancy it up and add exact btc amounts as well, to make sure everything adds up.

[nebiz]

I think the spreadsheet that I've posted contains all the pertinent information.  I understand that bitcoin was the measurement, and not chips (although why that was is beyond me; it's a lot easier to split bitcoin than chips).  This is why my sheet contains rounded information as well, since we couldn't feasibly split chips.  I can fancy it up and add exact btc amounts as well, to make sure everything adds up.

It should be identical for original payors. The payments were all odd values due to fees, overpayments, etc.  People who paid in bitcoins should get refunded the amount they paid in. People who bought bitcoins should get refunded the value of the bitcoins in terms of the original value, less JohnK's escrow fee and the 1% removed for raginazn for the ORIGINAL orderer, which the buyer will then get a fraction of. That's where you will find the tricky algebra.

[bigbeninlondon]

I think the spreadsheet that I've posted contains all the pertinent information.  I understand that bitcoin was the measurement, and not chips (although why that was is beyond me; it's a lot easier to split bitcoin than chips).  This is why my sheet contains rounded information as well, since we couldn't feasibly split chips.  I can fancy it up and add exact btc amounts as well, to make sure everything adds up.

It should be identical for original payors. The payments were all odd values due to fees, overpayments, etc.  People who paid in bitcoins should get refunded the amount they paid in. People who bought bitcoins should get refunded the value of the bitcoins in terms of the original value, less JohnK's escrow fee and the 1% removed for raginazn for the ORIGINAL orderer, which the buyer will then get a fraction of. That's where you will find the tricky algebra.

Can do.  However, should raging get his original 1%?  He fucking bounced.  I vote he gets jack shit.  John K deserves his cut, but raging just kind of left us holding the bag here.

[Noitev]

I think the spreadsheet that I've posted contains all the pertinent information.  I understand that bitcoin was the measurement, and not chips (although why that was is beyond me; it's a lot easier to split bitcoin than chips).  This is why my sheet contains rounded information as well, since we couldn't feasibly split chips.  I can fancy it up and add exact btc amounts as well, to make sure everything adds up.

It should be identical for original payors. The payments were all odd values due to fees, overpayments, etc.  People who paid in bitcoins should get refunded the amount they paid in. People who bought bitcoins should get refunded the value of the bitcoins in terms of the original value, less JohnK's escrow fee and the 1% removed for raginazn for the ORIGINAL orderer, which the buyer will then get a fraction of. That's where you will find the tricky algebra.

Can do.  However, should raging get his original 1%?  He fucking bounced.  I vote he gets jack shit.  John K deserves his cut, but raging just kind of left us holding the bag here.

I vote we get 100% what we put in by subtracting funds from ragingazn's chip orders, in addition, I think he should pay for the people who took over and made spreadsheets (of course I did the refund vote so I'm a little biased, then again I did it for free.) At lease have him pay to refund the original price since he has at least 17 btc in chips.

[shep80]

JohnK should get his share and possibly extra. Without him in the loop here we would all would be looking forward to getting nothing back.

[ragingazn628]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

[Noitev]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...

[ragingazn628]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...

I do not have the sample chips. Prodigits7 does.

What are you talking about? Everything was fine. The order got placed and we all waited. Now we're continuing to wait for refund. Everyone paid the escrow fee. Including me.

[bigbeninlondon]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

That's not the issue.  The issue is that you went AWOL when shit hit the fan.  Your "facilitation" fee was not earned nor do I think it is deserved.  Do you disagree?  I make no judgment on your part; things happen.  But I don't feel that you earned your fee.  If you believe you have earned it, feel free to make your case.  I imagine you probably won't find a lot of support here as your absence caused a large amount of distress for many of us.

Edit: I believe are entitled to a refund just like everyone else.  But we paid a "fee" of 1% to you for organizing and facilitating this group buy, which you failed to do.  THAT is what I feel you are not entitled to.

[ragingazn628]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

That's not the issue.  The issue is that you went AWOL when shit hit the fan.  Your "facilitation" fee was not earned nor do I think it is deserved.  Do you disagree?  I make no judgment on your part; things happen.  But I don't feel that you earned your fee.  If you believe you have earned it, feel free to make your case.  I imagine you probably won't find a lot of support here as your absence caused a large amount of distress for many of us.

Edit: I believe are entitled to a refund just like everyone else.  But we paid a "fee" of 1% to you for organizing and facilitating this group buy, which you failed to do.  THAT is what I feel you are not entitled to.

Agreed. I do NOT want or deserve my 1% fee.

It will be refunded to the group buy.

[Barklad]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

That's not the issue.  The issue is that you went AWOL when shit hit the fan.  Your "facilitation" fee was not earned nor do I think it is deserved.  Do you disagree?  I make no judgment on your part; things happen.  But I don't feel that you earned your fee.  If you believe you have earned it, feel free to make your case.  I imagine you probably won't find a lot of support here as your absence caused a large amount of distress for many of us.

Edit: I believe are entitled to a refund just like everyone else.  But we paid a "fee" of 1% to you for organizing and facilitating this group buy, which you failed to do.  THAT is what I feel you are not entitled to.

I agree with this sentiment. If we reward Ragin for poorly running a group buy it sends the wrong message. There should be negative repercussions for not adequately organizing a group buy and causing distress among its members. Ragin's fees should rollover to pay JohnK.

[Noitev]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

That's not the issue.  The issue is that you went AWOL when shit hit the fan.  Your "facilitation" fee was not earned nor do I think it is deserved.  Do you disagree?  I make no judgment on your part; things happen.  But I don't feel that you earned your fee.  If you believe you have earned it, feel free to make your case.  I imagine you probably won't find a lot of support here as your absence caused a large amount of distress for many of us.

Edit: I believe are entitled to a refund just like everyone else.  But we paid a "fee" of 1% to you for organizing and facilitating this group buy, which you failed to do.  THAT is what I feel you are not entitled to.

I agree with this sentiment. If we reward Ragin for poorly running a group buy it sends the wrong message. There should be negative repercussions for not adequately organizing a group buy and causing distress among its members. Ragin's fees should rollover to pay JohnK.

Exactly, a lot of people had to take time out of their hands to get this going back on track with you totally gone. The fact that you are back on after everything I heard from prodigits7 (which made you sound unfit for communication online or otherwise) is quite unsettling to me. Additionally, you gave chips that weren't yours to prodigits7. I'd have more sympathy for you if you came on at any point before the checkbooks were opened, but I really feel you should pay for the escrow fee and bigbeninlondon and I's work.

[bigbeninlondon]

I've gone through and added up all the swaps, and calculated a refund amount based on the swaps, located in Column N of the "Original Data" sheet.  This refund amount was calculated leaving John K's fee intact.  Any other payment for facilitating (Me, Noitev, redphlegm) has NOT been included in that total.  RagingAzn628's fee is NOT included in that total.

Please review and let me know if you find any mistakes.

Keep in mind that I did not do any calculations with regards to secondary purchases.  That is, if you sold your chips, that sale is private;  acquiring chips through bartering after the group buy is done should be viewed as a private transaction.  For instance, if you traded someone your car for their stake on chips, the group buy should only refund you what the chips cost to the original buyer and not the value of your car.  

[nebiz]

I think the spreadsheet that I've posted contains all the pertinent information.  I understand that bitcoin was the measurement, and not chips (although why that was is beyond me; it's a lot easier to split bitcoin than chips).  This is why my sheet contains rounded information as well, since we couldn't feasibly split chips.  I can fancy it up and add exact btc amounts as well, to make sure everything adds up.

It should be identical for original payors. The payments were all odd values due to fees, overpayments, etc.  People who paid in bitcoins should get refunded the amount they paid in. People who bought bitcoins should get refunded the value of the bitcoins in terms of the original value, less JohnK's escrow fee and the 1% removed for raginazn for the ORIGINAL orderer, which the buyer will then get a fraction of. That's where you will find the tricky algebra.

Can do.  However, should raging get his original 1%?  He fucking bounced.  I vote he gets jack shit.  John K deserves his cut, but raging just kind of left us holding the bag here.

Ragin's fee was part of the math that you will have to take into account when revisiting the math. I didn't say he should get it, I said you're gonna have to add it in if you try to use the chip totals.

[nebiz]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...

That's not how it works, Noitev. You are paying JohnK's escrow fee, because you are now getting the full force of his protection.

[Vycid]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

That's not the issue.  The issue is that you went AWOL when shit hit the fan.  Your "facilitation" fee was not earned nor do I think it is deserved.  Do you disagree?  I make no judgment on your part; things happen.  But I don't feel that you earned your fee.  If you believe you have earned it, feel free to make your case.  I imagine you probably won't find a lot of support here as your absence caused a large amount of distress for many of us.

Edit: I believe are entitled to a refund just like everyone else.  But we paid a "fee" of 1% to you for organizing and facilitating this group buy, which you failed to do.  THAT is what I feel you are not entitled to.

Agreed. I do NOT want or deserve my 1% fee.

It will be refunded to the group buy.

Thank you for taking the high road.

[Noitev]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...

That's not how it works, Noitev. You are paying JohnK's escrow fee, because you are now getting the full force of his protection.

Im aware and appreciate john ks existence, Im just saying raging more or less blatantly tried to steal our chips (he stole 20 already) and since we did everything to prevent it, he wants his entire share back as a fallback. Isn't it suspicious that he's never on, except when money is at stake for him? we paid for john k. to prevent exactly what he did, and now that we have some of his funds, I think it's only fair we subtract johns fee from raging's investment.

Also, as much as I love John k, we resorted to having to use group buy members to facilitate the transaction/cancellation. I understand both sides of the argument, namely that raging is saying "The price is 1.5% higher so that if I scam you, you get your money back." but when he actually does, isn't it fair that he pay for the 1.5%? I understand it could have very well have been a poor set of circumstances and that he might not have tried to scam us, but my opinion is totally opposed to that when he magically becomes healthy enough to post on the forums, something he was incapable of doing while he had control of over 50,000 dollars in hardware coming to him and had endless queries asking chip statuses. The only time he ever posted was when he was in serious risk of losing his chips

-just moved in to my house, that's why I was gone, relax
-death in the family, sorry Im still ok to do this
-therapist told me to separate myself from the internet, everything is still fine
-Oh there's a refund? ok, give me all my money back then...

Obviously he doesn't deserve the 1% so he's not going to argue for that, but he'll be damned if he comes out of this with less than what he put in after all the work he's gone through failing to scam us. I was ok with all of this so far, since I talked to prodigits a few times on skype. That was until raging said he gave the sample chips that were decidedly not his to prodigits7, a personal friend of his he wants to repay for doing damage control on his kncminer groupbuy. I'd value the chips at over 4 btc total since they were shipped months ago. So if raging feels like he can pay prodigits, why not pay the people doing damage control here? I honestly wouldn't really care if raging would just pay for the 1.5% escrow fee, but he's gonna try to profit on this failed groupbuy by double dipping in the chips and the full amount of the refund? screw that.