[Group Buy#1] Avalon ASICs CHIPS! Using JohnK as escrow! FINISHED!

[Vycid]

As per the 32 sample chip issue, I think it's quite fair that the amount of chips were taken from OP and split amongst buyers here, but note that in other GB's the sample chips weren't in the equation when the refunds were made. I'm open for discussion on this though.

My vote is that we proceed as normal, the sample chips were not accounted for in the group buy agreement. Hurt him in his trust, not his pocket.

Of course, if my premise is wrong, and there is a record that we agreed elsewise regarding the sample chips prior to closing the group buy, I suggest levying appropriate penalties. This is the most legally accountable solution.

The chips weren't decided on in the beginning. We definitley voted 8 go to bkk. the rest he said he'd keep because "the 1% wasn't that much for being the organizer and he wanted to keep the rest to test personally." This sort of implies that he was keeping the remainder as part of his 1% for being organizer which, at the time, seemed fair. Seeing how he recently said he didn't deserve the 1%, it only makes sense he pay for the chips.

I'd still rather have a good reason to give him a negative trust rating than seize 32 chips worth of BTC. Raging the group buy participant should be kept separate from Raging the group buy organizer as much as possible.

If he is halfway decent - or cares at all about his trust rating - he will offer to pay for the chips.

[Noitev]

As per the 32 sample chip issue, I think it's quite fair that the amount of chips were taken from OP and split amongst buyers here, but note that in other GB's the sample chips weren't in the equation when the refunds were made. I'm open for discussion on this though.

My vote is that we proceed as normal, the sample chips were not accounted for in the group buy agreement. Hurt him in his trust, not his pocket.

Of course, if my premise is wrong, and there is a record that we agreed elsewise regarding the sample chips prior to closing the group buy, I suggest levying appropriate penalties. This is the most legally accountable solution.

The chips weren't decided on in the beginning. We definitley voted 8 go to bkk. the rest he said he'd keep because "the 1% wasn't that much for being the organizer and he wanted to keep the rest to test personally." This sort of implies that he was keeping the remainder as part of his 1% for being organizer which, at the time, seemed fair. Seeing how he recently said he didn't deserve the 1%, it only makes sense he pay for the chips.

I'd still rather have a good reason to give him a negative trust rating than seize 32 chips worth of BTC. Raging the group buy participant should be kept separate from Raging the group buy organizer as much as possible.

If he is halfway decent - or cares at all about his trust rating - he will offer to pay for the chips.

Why is this an "or" situation? we can have the chips he gave away and give him bad trust. There's no way he's doing any more group buys or stuff likewise with the nonsense he's gone through, who offer him an ultimatum?

[Barklad]

Once again I agree with Noitev's logical assessment of the situation. We can easily infer Ragin took the sample chips as an additional payment for being group buy organizer. He then failed in those duties and agreed to not receive those funds. I don't understand the disconnect people are having in recognizing that the sample chips were at worst stolen from this group buy and at best a part of his payment as organizer. We are not "seizing [...] BTC". Ragin was paid for services that were not rendered and thus owes us that amount, it would only make sense to subtract it from the funds he is due back rather than trust that a person who has proven unreliable will offer it back to us.

[bigbeninlondon]

We could back and forth, but I propose we vote.

I made a simple form for this express purpose:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/197FRCI5sRWs9UDuHSZ9HFTO_7_WD4acvAlcKMMCWyAE/formResponse

I know the chips were 1/3 of one percent of the total buy, and thus is generally insignificant, but at this point I'm so upset with Raging's handling of this group buy and subsequent behavior that I don't believe he should receive even a satoshi more than he absolutely has to in this group buy. 

So here's ANOTHER form that you can choose to fill out if you wish, and we can gauge how to go forward with regards to the sample chips.

[Vycid]

Once again I agree with Noitev's logical assessment of the situation. We can easily infer Ragin took the sample chips as an additional payment for being group buy organizer. He then failed in those duties and agreed to not receive those funds. I don't understand the disconnect people are having in recognizing that the sample chips were at worst stolen from this group buy and at best a part of his payment as organizer. We are not "seizing [...] BTC". Ragin was paid for services that were not rendered and thus owes us that amount, it would only make sense to subtract it from the funds he is due back rather than trust that a person who has proven unreliable will offer it back to us.

My issue merely stems from the fact that we'd be tapping Raging's chip funds, not Raging's fee, to cover that debt.

The more I've thought about it, though, the more I can accept it from the perspective that Raging simply received some of his chips early, and is therefore not entitled to a refund on those chips.

So, with that in mind, I do support withholding the appropriate sum for those sample chips (30?).

[zamazama]

The other group buy refunds are almost done .. yes this one is a mess ... but when is the refunding going to get started??

[scotjam]

The other group buy refunds are almost done .. yes this one is a mess ... but when is the refunding going to get started??

Whew, I refunded all other GB's I've received refunds for, and now am trying to make a headway here. Please expect delays due to the fragmented nature of this particular refund list.

Based on JohnK's post above, it sounds like we need to give him a clear list of ownership (including the sample chips issue) and some time. No specific date set yet, and it sounds like it may not all happen at once.

scotjam

[Egon]

Treat the 32 sample chips like they were a partial delivery of Ragin's total order, deduct that percentage from his refund amount, move on with life.

I would support taking that ~2.5btc and splitting it up amongst everyone in the group getting a refund, donating it to the additional supporters who created spreadsheets for the account, or adding it to JohnK's tip jar and he can give tips as he sees fit to the other folk who have helped in this thread.

EITHER WAY... don't let it hold up the refund.  Process the refund ASAP and let everyone get 98.5% back in their pockets. Can split up the extra later if that's the decision of the group. 

[ragingazn628]

I'm in the process of trying to get the chips back from Prodigits7 - What happens after I get the chips?

Worst case scenario I will pay for the sample chips. If ~2.5BTC divided among 80+ people means that much to you guys - $4 a person... I will buy everyone a beer. There, are we happy now?

[bigbeninlondon]

I'm in the process of trying to get the chips back from Prodigits7 - What happens after I get the chips?

Use them or sell them.  They're yours.

Worst case scenario I will pay for the sample chips. If ~2.5BTC divided among 80+ people means that much to you guys - $4 a person... I will buy everyone a beer. There, are we happy now?

Trivialize it all you want.  You fucked shit up.  You received some chips early and didn't do as you were asked.  It's more important to me that you pay for everything you got; I want you to profit 0 from this group buy.  I'd even be OK with donating that 2.5 BTC to Shawn's Outpost or something, as long as you don't get it.

[bassclef]

I can't believe you guys are arguing over a few dollars per person.

Just get John a finalized refund spreadsheet already!

[bigbeninlondon]

The spreadsheets are available.  John K hasn't said anything about additional info.  AFAIK the chip count on my sheet is dead on.  Redphlegm where are we with your sheet?  The last I checked it was about 1000 chips short. 

[dancrn]

right guys, ragingazn628 messed up, we get it.

can we stop being abrasive and rude to him please? it's pathetic. we're getting our refunds, we just need to wait on johnk getting them to us.

i couldn't care less about the sample chips. 32*300mh isn't game-changing hash power. grind them up and snort them, if you think you'd have a good time with it.

thanks,

[Wesly]

At this point, the fastest way to distribute the refund is what I vote for, which is to say, I don't care about the 32 sample chips.  You guys can all fight over that, just give me the refund minus JohnK's fee.  Thank you.

[bigbeninlondon]

We could definitely move ahead with the refund, minus the 32 chips.  Then that can be decided later.


And I want to be clear; I care not what happens to the 32 chips, except I don't want Raging to get anything more than he deserves, which I think is zero.  I have 20 chips in this buy, so my say is negligible.  I just remember all the anxiety and stress about what was going to happen to this group buy that was caused when he just up and disa-fucking-ppeared.  I resent him for that and I want to make sure that he is in no way rewarded.

I'm not intending to be petty.  The point is not to make a few bucks for myself, but rather to keep Raging from being 2 some odd btc up from this group buy, when he so obviously mishandled it.

Either way, the vote spreadsheet is here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/197FRCI5sRWs9UDuHSZ9HFTO_7_WD4acvAlcKMMCWyAE/formResponse

Mob rule seems to work pretty well.

[John (John K.)]

The spreadsheets are available.  John K hasn't said anything about additional info.  AFAIK the chip count on my sheet is dead on.  Redphlegm where are we with your sheet?  The last I checked it was about 1000 chips short. 

I am still going through the cascade of PM's confirming the refund addresses (which appeared suddenly since last week), and even have requests to change their refund addresses like 2 times. If possible, can someone point me the standard and acceptable refund list that I can simply use to send bitcoin to?

[Vycid]

The spreadsheets are available.  John K hasn't said anything about additional info.  AFAIK the chip count on my sheet is dead on.  Redphlegm where are we with your sheet?  The last I checked it was about 1000 chips short. 

I am still going through the cascade of PM's confirming the refund addresses (which appeared suddenly since last week), and even have requests to change their refund addresses like 2 times. If possible, can someone point me the standard and acceptable refund list that I can simply use to send bitcoin to?

Um, were we supposed to PM you a refund address? I don't believe I've done that.

My memory is a little fuzzy but I thought we'd already figured out refund addresses.

[Doomsby]

You could post the completed list (person - refund address) here then when each person posts confirmation that it is their correct refund address you send it to them, that might help.

[bigbeninlondon]

The spreadsheets are available.  John K hasn't said anything about additional info.  AFAIK the chip count on my sheet is dead on.  Redphlegm where are we with your sheet?  The last I checked it was about 1000 chips short. 

I am still going through the cascade of PM's confirming the refund addresses (which appeared suddenly since last week), and even have requests to change their refund addresses like 2 times. If possible, can someone point me the standard and acceptable refund list that I can simply use to send bitcoin to?

Redphlegm pm'd you last week with a refund address form.  I just re-forwarded you the link for the results.  That should be pretty complete with over 9000 chips accounted for.  If you cross reference his form results (which were filled in by users) with the chip count form that I put together from the thread, you should have an accurate count for each user who filled out the form.  Let me know if you need anything else.

[ragingazn628]

Wow ok I'm done. I won't be reading or posting in this thread again. I've already said I'm sorry for the conflict in my life that got in the way with this group buy plenty of times. And people are still trying to bicker about a few dollars.