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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21335986 times)
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June 05, 2013, 11:04:16 PM
 #13481

Frozenlock just gave the answer that ends this discussion. The blockchain has the potential to become so much more than a ledger that stores bitcoin transactions. Bitcoins however are what gives you access to it. Intrinsic value, right there.

Could you give some examples?

I wonder if he is talking about other uses for a new blockchain or the existing blockchain. If it is a new blockchain, then we are talking about things like namecoin (decentralized dns), decentralized voting, online ownership ledger, etc. If he is talking about the bitcoin blockchain, then that is interesting as it starts to build upon bitcoins blockchain with other services. I'd love to hear more about that. And don't get me wrong,
either of the preceding are transcending technologically. We are at a special place guys in our history. I only wish more could see it.

Behold the anti-fragile black swan (see my sig)...

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June 05, 2013, 11:06:11 PM
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No, we're not seeing "essentially faith" with bitcoin. It's more. I have to agree finally with Max Keiser: bitcoin does have intrinsic value (I used to argue it was all pure faith). The intrinsic value of bitcoin is it's scarcity combined with the fact that you can send it through the internet anonymously. That's intrinsic value right there.

Unless you somehow enjoy sending coins back & forth, and don't care if they buy you any goodies, i think we're talking "instrumental value."

Frozenlock just gave the answer that ends this discussion. The blockchain has the potential to become so much more than a ledger that stores bitcoin transactions. Bitcoins however are what gives you access to it. Intrinsic value, right there.

I'm still not sure what you mean, maybe my interpretation of intrinsic value is too literal?  The blockchain won't start making cheese or building cars, will it?
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June 05, 2013, 11:06:27 PM
 #13483

Frozenlock just gave the answer that ends this discussion. The blockchain has the potential to become so much more than a ledger that stores bitcoin transactions. Bitcoins however are what gives you access to it. Intrinsic value, right there.

Could you give some examples?

I think nerds like to, well, nerd out about the potential of the block chain because it takes a while before you can even wrap your head around what it actually is: a distributed, tamper & attack-proof, eternal, trust-free storage of information.

One idea that I've heard was using the block chain as a way to publish information and at the same time being able to prove that you were the first one to do so. But in reality I think what gets the nerds excited is that we can't really see yet what it might be useful for, just that it feels like it very likely that in the future people will come up with a bunch of ideas we can't even dream of. A bit like how Vint Cerf probably didn't have a clue what the Internet one day would look like, but he seemed to realize the potential that it could become something big one day.
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June 05, 2013, 11:11:18 PM
 #13484

Frozenlock just gave the answer that ends this discussion. The blockchain has the potential to become so much more than a ledger that stores bitcoin transactions. Bitcoins however are what gives you access to it. Intrinsic value, right there.

Could you give some examples?

I think nerds like to, well, nerd out about the potential of the block chain because it takes a while before you can even wrap your head around what it actually is: a distributed, tamper & attack-proof, eternal, trust-free storage of information. (...)

Yup.

You could "relatively" easily bootstrap an entire financial sector (stocks, options, etc.) on top of bitcoin and be incredibly secure. All this without the need for massive investment, or even a powerful and corrupt-free judicial system.

The price to use this? Transaction fees, paid in bitcoins.
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June 05, 2013, 11:12:50 PM
 #13485

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink
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June 05, 2013, 11:20:25 PM
 #13486

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink

The truth is, outside speculation, bitcoin is only supported by silkroad. Imagine speculators leaving, and silkroad shutting down.
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June 05, 2013, 11:23:35 PM
 #13487

About Bitcoin's value: If somebody shows you a gold/silver/bit coin or a $100 bill and offers you to buy it for half its value, would you buy it?
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June 05, 2013, 11:23:46 PM
 #13488

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink

The truth is, outside speculation, bitcoin is only supported by silkroad. Imagine speculators leaving, and silkroad shutting down.

That canard doesn't become truer just by repeating it over and over, y'know.
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June 05, 2013, 11:25:05 PM
 #13489

About Bitcoin's value: If somebody shows you a gold/silver/bit coin or a $100 bill and offers you to buy it for half its value, would you buy it?

Sure. If somebody offers me a $60 BTC, I'll buy it.
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June 05, 2013, 11:30:48 PM
 #13490

If I sell you a soda and you give me a dollar and I don't give you the soda claiming you didn't give me a dollar, what can you do?
If "I sell you a soda for $1 to this address: …" and I don't give you the soda, what can you do?

Sure, you might answer question one with some violence towards me or my store.
With bitcoin you have all the benefits of an on the record transaction like credit card payment combined with full anonymity as long as there are no complaints.
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June 05, 2013, 11:32:52 PM
 #13491

About Bitcoin's value: If somebody shows you a gold/silver/bit coin or a $100 bill and offers you to buy it for half its value, would you buy it?

Sure. If somebody offers me a $60 BTC, I'll buy it.

So how about the 100 dollars for $50? How about the gold and silver coins? Lets add a bank transfer: If you give me $50, I will send you $100. I will even send them first if you insist.
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June 05, 2013, 11:33:01 PM
 #13492

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink

The truth is, outside speculation, bitcoin is only supported by silkroad. Imagine speculators leaving, and silkroad shutting down.

That canard doesn't become truer just by repeating it over and over, y'know.

Many people riding the 1k BTC bandwagon seem to forget that.
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June 05, 2013, 11:33:46 PM
 #13493

About Bitcoin's value: If somebody shows you a gold/silver/bit coin or a $100 bill and offers you to buy it for half its value, would you buy it?

Sure. If somebody offers me a $60 BTC, I'll buy it.

So how about the 100 dollars for $50? How about the gold and silver coins? Lets add a bank transfer: If you give me $50, I will send you $100. I will even send them first if you insist.

What are you trying to prove? Anyone would buy it so that they can sell it 1 second later for instant profit.
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June 05, 2013, 11:39:20 PM
 #13494

About Bitcoin's value: If somebody shows you a gold/silver/bit coin or a $100 bill and offers you to buy it for half its value, would you buy it?

Sure. If somebody offers me a $60 BTC, I'll buy it.

So how about the 100 dollars for $50? How about the gold and silver coins? Lets add a bank transfer: If you give me $50, I will send you $100. I will even send them first if you insist.

What are you trying to prove? Anyone would buy it so that they can sell it 1 second later for instant profit.

yeah good luck. How many stores don't take $100 bills? How often have you been offered a "real gold chain/coin/whatever" for a hell of a bargain? How many people try to cash out on their hacked bank accounts? Let me guess: you were heavily invested in Pirate@40
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June 05, 2013, 11:41:14 PM
 #13495

About Bitcoin's value: If somebody shows you a gold/silver/bit coin or a $100 bill and offers you to buy it for half its value, would you buy it?

Sure. If somebody offers me a $60 BTC, I'll buy it.

So how about the 100 dollars for $50? How about the gold and silver coins? Lets add a bank transfer: If you give me $50, I will send you $100. I will even send them first if you insist.

What are you trying to prove? Anyone would buy it so that they can sell it 1 second later for instant profit.

yeah good luck. How many stores don't take $100 bills? How often have you been offered a "real gold chain/coin/whatever" for a hell of a bargain? How many people try to cash out on their hacked bank accounts? Let me guess: you were heavily invested in Pirate@40

Nope, at that time I was only a bitcoin user and not speculator and did not care for price as I spent on the same day as buying them. I don't even remember how much were they, only how much I spent on them. Question stands: what are you trying to prove?
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June 05, 2013, 11:44:53 PM
 #13496

About Bitcoin's value: If somebody shows you a gold/silver/bit coin or a $100 bill and offers you to buy it for half its value, would you buy it?

Sure. If somebody offers me a $60 BTC, I'll buy it.

So how about the 100 dollars for $50? How about the gold and silver coins? Lets add a bank transfer: If you give me $50, I will send you $100. I will even send them first if you insist.

What are you trying to prove? Anyone would buy it so that they can sell it 1 second later for instant profit.

yeah good luck. How many stores don't take $100 bills? How often have you been offered a "real gold chain/coin/whatever" for a hell of a bargain? How many people try to cash out on their hacked bank accounts? Let me guess: you were heavily invested in Pirate@40

Nope, at that time I was only a bitcoin user and not speculator and did not care for price as I spent on the same day as buying them. I don't even remember how much were they, only how much I spent on them. Question stands: what are you trying to prove?

among dollar on paper, dollar from a bank account, gold, silver, bitcoin from a random anonymous person, bitcoin is the only thing I can take without having to be afraid to get a fake bill, transfer from a hacked account that will be undone, some metal that is worth nothing.

to be fair, bitcoin taint might be an issue at some point but i hope with zerocoin we will have truly fungible bitcoins.
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June 05, 2013, 11:50:11 PM
 #13497

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink

The truth is, outside speculation, bitcoin is only supported by silkroad. Imagine speculators leaving, and silkroad shutting down.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
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June 05, 2013, 11:52:23 PM
 #13498

Frozenlock just gave the answer that ends this discussion. The blockchain has the potential to become so much more than a ledger that stores bitcoin transactions. Bitcoins however are what gives you access to it. Intrinsic value, right there.

Could you give some examples?

I think nerds like to, well, nerd out about the potential of the block chain because it takes a while before you can even wrap your head around what it actually is: a distributed, tamper & attack-proof, eternal, trust-free storage of information. (...)

Yup.

You could "relatively" easily bootstrap an entire financial sector (stocks, options, etc.) on top of bitcoin and be incredibly secure. All this without the need for massive investment, or even a powerful and corrupt-free judicial system.

The price to use this? Transaction fees, paid in bitcoins.

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink

So one of two things is true:

1. You believe the Blockchain (including it's current main use as currency) being used extensively for any of the reasons you discuss is very very small
2. You are irrational Smiley

Wink
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June 05, 2013, 11:55:25 PM
 #13499

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink

The truth is, outside speculation, bitcoin is only supported by silkroad. Imagine speculators leaving, and silkroad shutting down.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

Is that a list of some obscure vendors who support them? Is any of them 10% as popular as silkroad?
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June 06, 2013, 12:00:22 AM
 #13500

But I still think Bitcoin is currently overvalued.  Wink

The truth is, outside speculation, bitcoin is only supported by silkroad. Imagine speculators leaving, and silkroad shutting down.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

Is that a list of some obscure vendors who support them? Is any of them 10% as popular as silkroad?
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