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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26383518 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
gnode
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October 05, 2014, 12:22:11 AM

Something to keep in mind,

BTC's market cap is 5 billion, compare to following,

"Competition in the mutual fund business exploded this week as rivals sparred for a share of the billions of dollars flowing out of Pacific Investment Management Co., which commands $2 trillion in investments. .

Gross, known on Wall Street as the "bond king," stirred up the industry last month when he quit — after clashing with other Pimco executives — to run a comparatively tiny portfolio for Janus Capital Management. Investors responded by pulling $23.5 billion from Pimco's Total Return Fund, which Gross had personally managed."

One bond mutual fund is 2 trillion market cap. 

When this "big money" pours into BTC the price will skyrocket.
exocytosis
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October 05, 2014, 12:24:49 AM


When this "big money" pours into BTC the price will skyrocket.


That money will never pour into BTC, since Gross, Wall Street guys and other smart people don't invest in pyramid schemes. They're not interested in making cultist neckbeards rich.

phoenix1
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October 05, 2014, 12:25:43 AM

Saw this chart on a dutch forum; source is tradingview:



Pretty interesting to see all assets going down relative to USD. Question obviously is when and if the USD rally ends.

With the Fed dangling the prospects of higher interest rates for USD obvious trade is obvious. That they believe they can raise rates without collapsing the bond bubble and creating chaos is beyond me. I just can't see it. Maybe I am blind.
To me it looks like the final vacuum up before the freefall ...
dyland
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October 05, 2014, 12:26:38 AM

Is it weird that I'm getting really nervous?
gnode
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October 05, 2014, 12:27:20 AM


When this "big money" pours into BTC the price will skyrocket.


That money will never pour into BTC, since Gross, Wall Street guys and other smart people don't invest in pyramid schemes. They're not interested in making cultist neckbeards rich.



Right, they didn't invest in Madoff's fund, lol, silly neckbeard!
Walsoraj
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October 05, 2014, 12:32:58 AM

New Poll:

Let Karpeles run Bitstamp?
adamstgBit
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October 05, 2014, 12:33:14 AM

Is it weird that I'm getting really nervous?

no.
dyland
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October 05, 2014, 12:36:11 AM

Is it weird that I'm getting really nervous?

no.

Ah ok, good. I've been feeling pretty weird to be honest--not knowing whether to buy or divest completely...
PapaEmeritus
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October 05, 2014, 12:37:27 AM


When this "big money" pours into BTC the price will skyrocket.


That money will never pour into BTC, since Gross, Wall Street guys and other smart people don't invest in pyramid schemes. They're not interested in making cultist neckbeards rich.



The truth has been spoken.
phoenix1
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October 05, 2014, 12:39:02 AM

New Poll:

Let Karpeles run Bitstamp?

Sounds like a great idea!! He still has 'Willy bot' code right ??
hyphymikey
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October 05, 2014, 12:39:08 AM

Huge farm just turned on somewhere, hashrate is over 340PH



Hashrate is up over 50% today! SHIIIIEET!


BFL was allowed to resume operations...coincidence?
(yeah they could have that much PH from the scam they did)
imho


Is there a spike down from when they shut down operations?
inca
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October 05, 2014, 12:44:05 AM

That money will never pour into BTC, since Gross, Wall Street guys and other smart people don't invest in pyramid schemes. They're not interested in making cultist neckbeards rich.

Jesus exo, stop with the trolling negative posts. Half the board has you on ignore for being a cunt. The other half see right through it. The only reason I haven't /ignored you is because I want to see if you stop being a miserable sourpuss when you finally buy in.
Walsoraj
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October 05, 2014, 12:46:35 AM

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ibjfi/what_is_the_point_of_atms_if_theyre_going_to_shut/

Quote
I'm in Toronto, I've had this problem several times. First time the price dropped below $400 CAD i went to buy Bitcoin at the Robocoin machine on Bloor street and it didn't work, once the price went up to $480-500 the machine was functioning again. Then I went yesterday when the price was still around $400 CAD and the machine stopped working again.
...

lol.
bahamapascal
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October 05, 2014, 12:48:01 AM

Is it weird that I'm getting really nervous?

no.

Ah ok, good. I've been feeling pretty weird to be honest--not knowing whether to buy or divest completely...

Haha, that is exactly how I feel!!!
I tend to belive that price will still decline, but to afraid to sell while at the same timee being to afraight to buy more
ElectricMucus
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October 05, 2014, 12:49:47 AM

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ibjfi/what_is_the_point_of_atms_if_theyre_going_to_shut/

Quote
I'm in Toronto, I've had this problem several times. First time the price dropped below $400 CAD i went to buy Bitcoin at the Robocoin machine on Bloor street and it didn't work, once the price went up to $480-500 the machine was functioning again. Then I went yesterday when the price was still around $400 CAD and the machine stopped working again.
...

lol.

The Invisible Hand Of The Free Market!
LRENZ
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October 05, 2014, 01:00:44 AM

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-q1S-Lx5VUNg/T0hqeOD5w4I/AAAAAAAAK-0/_RRP55D_yVk/s1600/soon_meme_collection_640_08.jpg
ChartBuddy
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October 05, 2014, 01:01:10 AM


Explanation
POM
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October 05, 2014, 01:04:10 AM

My local BTC atm was 20% above market today  Roll Eyes
nanobrain
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October 05, 2014, 01:05:27 AM

What's interesting is days destroyed is basically at zero. All the coins being moved to exchanges to be sold are probably very new. The theory Chinese miners are selling to get their money offshore denominated in USD is pretty interesting.


I will keep coming back to BurtW's post on mining breakeven costs based around energy, which projects a mid October price of $233. If miner's are selling there comes a price point where buying is more cost effective than mining. I could see a bottom around $250.


When calculated in the OP over the time period from March 14, 2013 to March 13, 2014 the average increase in the difficulty and hash rate was 23.92% per adjustment period and the average length of each adjustment period was 11.38 days.

Recalculated over the period June 29, 2013 to June 29, 2014 it was 23.45% and 11.41 days.

Now, recalculating over the period August 24, 2013 to August 31, 2014 it is 21.12% and 11.63 days.

Assuming the network growth rate over the next year is the same as it was this last year we get:

Code:
                                Hash Rate   Power      Energy            Cost        Cost
     Date          Difficulty        TH/s      MW         MWh        $/Period       $/BTC
---------  ------------------  ----------  ------  ----------  --------------  ----------
11-Sep-14      33,220,936,877     237,808     238      66,349      $6,634,853     $131.64
23-Sep-14      40,236,446,759     288,028     288      80,360      $8,035,984     $159.44
04-Oct-14      48,733,473,526     348,853     349      97,330      $9,733,002     $193.12
16-Oct-14      59,024,880,009     422,523     423     117,884     $11,788,392     $233.90
28-Oct-14      71,489,598,585     511,750     512     142,778     $14,277,833     $283.29
08-Nov-14      86,586,583,575     619,820     620     172,930     $17,292,988     $343.11
20-Nov-14     104,871,710,060     750,712     751     209,449     $20,944,876     $415.57
02-Dec-14     127,018,241,359     909,246     909     253,680     $25,367,960     $503.33
13-Dec-14     153,841,618,762   1,101,258   1,101     307,251     $30,725,098     $609.62
25-Dec-14     186,329,486,300   1,333,819   1,334     372,135     $37,213,544     $738.36
05-Jan-15     225,678,056,071   1,615,491   1,615     450,722     $45,072,202     $894.29
17-Jan-15     273,336,153,086   1,956,646   1,957     545,904     $54,590,430   $1,083.14
29-Jan-15     331,058,561,407   2,369,846   2,370     661,187     $66,118,694   $1,311.88
09-Feb-15     400,970,635,767   2,870,303   2,870     800,815     $80,081,465   $1,588.92
21-Feb-15     485,646,557,708   3,476,447   3,476     969,929     $96,992,858   $1,924.46
05-Mar-15     588,204,117,648   4,210,593   4,211   1,174,756    $117,475,554   $2,330.86
16-Mar-15     712,419,512,763   5,099,775   5,100   1,422,837    $142,283,732   $2,823.09
28-Mar-15     862,866,387,600   6,176,732   6,177   1,723,308    $172,330,835   $3,419.26
08-Apr-15   1,045,084,236,901   7,481,119   7,481   2,087,232    $208,723,207   $4,141.33
20-Apr-15   1,265,782,371,309   9,060,961   9,061   2,528,008    $252,800,823   $5,015.89
02-May-15   1,533,086,956,002  10,974,431  10,974   3,061,866    $306,186,635   $6,075.13
13-May-15   1,856,840,218,301  13,291,983  13,292   3,708,463    $370,846,321   $7,358.06
25-May-15   2,248,962,841,151  16,098,949  16,099   4,491,607    $449,160,670   $8,911.92
06-Jun-15   2,723,892,885,897  19,498,682  19,499   5,440,132    $544,013,236  $10,793.91
17-Jun-15   3,299,117,405,623  23,616,363  23,616   6,588,965    $658,896,517  $13,073.34
29-Jun-15   3,995,816,323,188  28,603,604  28,604   7,980,405    $798,040,547  $15,834.14
10-Jul-15   4,839,642,281,734  34,644,038  34,644   9,665,686    $966,568,646  $19,177.95
22-Jul-15   5,861,665,181,962  41,960,074  41,960  11,706,861  $1,170,686,065  $23,227.90
03-Aug-15   7,099,516,184,307  50,821,092  50,821  14,179,085  $1,417,908,463  $28,133.10
14-Aug-15   8,598,773,298,472  61,553,356  61,553  17,173,386  $1,717,338,634  $34,074.18
26-Aug-15  10,414,639,578,109  74,552,032  74,552  20,800,017  $2,080,001,680  $41,269.87
07-Sep-15  12,613,975,712,232  90,295,733  90,296  25,192,510  $2,519,250,952  $49,985.14

In other words something has got to give by the end of the year, or actually before December 1

One problem I have with this is the assumption that big miners are in it for BTC and not fiat. I don't know everyone's motives but I am sure that for some it is an opportunistic business model (ie buy ASIC's, mine, sell, profit). As such what gives is price and it's a race to the bottom in terms of who has the cheapest electricity. Hardware is a sunk cost now, so it makes sense to continue to mine as long as your electicity costs less than than you can sell the BTC for, even if that means just minimising losses (on sunk costs), for all those miners whose goal is not to accumulate BTC.

We hear many times that miners will just hoard or switch off and buy instead. IMO only those that are true believers and not in it for fiat will do so. The rest will get what they can out of their equipment while they can. Many a bad investment decision has been made in the past and will be in the future in many industries. Why this mythical illusion that BTC is so different?

It looks very much like mining bubble to me

EDIT : In conclusion is it not a perfectly reasonable proposition that difficulty could nosedive to match current price as inefficient miners who are in it for fiat simply switch off their hardware at some point and exit the game or wait for their equipment to become profitable again, if ever? The assumption that they will simply buy BTC instead seems deeply flawed. Meanwhile the BTC inflation rate (supply) will remain constant. In the absence of new demand where does price go ?

I agree that the idea that miners 'start buying' is deeply flawed but when mining becomes unprofitable they will stop mining, supply will be reduced and the price will stabilise.  Is this not part of the big "Satoshi Plan" of checks and balances for the functioning of BTC anyway; at the moment we have a confluence of negative factors: too much supply and negative sentiment due to Gox, Neo et al.

When the miners stop the flow of coins the price will find equilibrium and sentiment will return with a stable price.

Simples.
adamstgBit
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October 05, 2014, 01:09:57 AM

My local BTC atm was 20% above market today  Roll Eyes
wow

so like 400$
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