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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26371310 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
ChartBuddy
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October 21, 2014, 09:00:46 PM


Explanation
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JorgeStolfi
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October 21, 2014, 09:02:22 PM


Thanks! 

But, of course, now big traders will immediately implement their algorithm, and that will make it ineffective.  Smiley
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October 21, 2014, 09:05:23 PM


Thanks!  

But, of course, now big traders will immediately implement their algorithm, and that will make it ineffective.  Smiley

Probably. The MIT paper is linked in the article: http://arxiv-web3.library.cornell.edu/pdf/1410.1231v1.pdf

Too mathy for me.  Huh Huh Huh
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October 21, 2014, 09:23:16 PM

Without china stamp would be at 420$ right now  Angry
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October 21, 2014, 09:25:16 PM


If everyone use the same indicators to buy or sell, then the prices will rise or fall when we see the indicators.

It is kind of circular
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October 21, 2014, 09:26:20 PM


Thanks! 

But, of course, now big traders will immediately implement their algorithm, and that will make it ineffective.  Smiley

Thanks Walsoraj, I'll look into it, although it's not an easy read.

I doubt that it will become ineffective if large traders implement it, I believe it should speed up the market by increasing volume.
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October 21, 2014, 09:27:01 PM


Thanks!  

But, of course, now big traders will immediately implement their algorithm, and that will make it ineffective.  Smiley

Thanks Walsoraj, I'll look into it, although it's not an easy read.

I doubt that it will become ineffective if large traders implement it, I believe it should speed up the market by increasing volume.
I think it would become ineffective.  If you know your 'opponents' strategy in advance, you can always frontrun them.
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October 21, 2014, 10:00:46 PM


Explanation
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October 21, 2014, 10:55:33 PM

no time to explain! everyone put 500$ on the front lines lets see what happens.  Cheesy
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October 21, 2014, 11:00:45 PM


Explanation
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October 21, 2014, 11:24:07 PM

We need that gif of bitcoin crashing sideways
JorgeStolfi
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October 21, 2014, 11:53:43 PM

The MIT paper is linked in the article: http://arxiv-web3.library.cornell.edu/pdf/1410.1231v1.pdf

I had a quick look, here is what I understood:

Their raw data is the price and the first few order book entries at OKCoin, at 10-second intervals, from Feb/2014 to Jul/2014. 

To predict the change in price in the next 10 seconds, they take the last 180 to 720 data points (30 to 120 minutes' worth of their data set) and look back in history for occasions when the price wriggled in similar ways.  They look at what the price did just after those occasions, and use that information to predict what it will do next. The complicated math is details of how to compare the recent wriggles with the historical wriggles, and combining the "past futures" into the "next future". 

They did not actually trade on the exchanges.  They used the first 4 months of data to adjust the parameters of their method, and then simulated how it would have performed over the last 2 months (Jun-Jul/2014).   

Some comments:

I may have misunderstood, but it seems that they did just ONE test run, using the last 2 months of data.

The performance in that test (doubling the USD capital in 50 days) would be impressive for stock market trading, but for bitcoin trading it seems quite modest, given its hight volatility.  If God traded every 10 seconds, as in their simulation, He would probably get that return in a few hours. 

In fact, doubling the capital in 50 days may be within the noise level.  That is, if several traders traded at random, once a second, for 50 days, some of them may well double their capital, some may lose it all.  (I don't know whether this is true, it would have to be checked.)

So, here is one thing that may be wrong with the paper.  The method has several parameters. Some of them are meant to be ajusted by "training" the mthod on part of the data, as they did.  Others are ostensibly fixed, like the duration of the windows used ("30, 60 and 120 minutes").  But the latter are arbitrary, and they probably tried several values until they got values that seemed to work.  But in doing so they may have only selected a "random trader" that was lucky in that test. 

They may have discussed this potential flaw in the paper, in the parts that I skipped.
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October 21, 2014, 11:55:07 PM

5 minutes until the 3D MACD green candle solidifies, correct?
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October 22, 2014, 12:00:29 AM

5 minutes until the 3D MACD green candle solidifies, correct?
the next 5 mins are CRITICAL!
ChartBuddy
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October 22, 2014, 12:00:47 AM


Explanation
BitChick
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October 22, 2014, 12:16:39 AM

5 minutes until the 3D MACD green candle solidifies, correct?
the next 5 mins are CRITICAL!

So it is officially green but the price is not changing at all.  Can't we at least get a few panic buys!?   Cheesy
adamstgBit
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October 22, 2014, 12:18:19 AM

5 minutes until the 3D MACD green candle solidifies, correct?
the next 5 mins are CRITICAL!

So it is officially green but the price is not changing at all.  Can't we at least get a few panic buys!?   Cheesy

its not panic buy time yet, not for a long time. its slowly buy as much as you can at the bottom without running price up time.  Tongue
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October 22, 2014, 12:23:08 AM

They did not actually trade on the exchanges.  They used the first 4 months of data to adjust the parameters of their method, and then simulated how it would have performed over the last 2 months (Jun-Jul/2014).   

This is likely a very risky proposition. Training and comparing on past data. You run into survivor principle and confirmation bias. You can continually reject models until you get the one you want. Even if your model *does* match on the first go around, you can't guarantee that there weren't a hundred other people doing the same thing with slightly different parameters who failed.

Being sure your model represents reality, particularly when that reality is a complex, chaotic system is a thorny problem. If they manage to model the price for the next couple of months, I might be willing to agree that they might have something.
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October 22, 2014, 12:27:20 AM

Anyone else think this New York bitliscence thing is some BULLSHIT?
adamstgBit
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October 22, 2014, 12:31:30 AM

Anyone else think this New York bitliscence thing is some BULLSHIT?


i think that pretty much sums it up  Smiley
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