Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[shmadz]

...

I don't think I've ever seen anyone so willfully dense as our beloved professor.

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[NewLiberty]

There is a difference between the folks who are trying to understand and those who willfully misunderstand.  
There are some folks who are just trying to wrap their heads around all this stuff for the first time and are confused by the conflation of the different merits of:
1) price stability
2) existential stability (or "resilience" if you prefer)

I imagine the first matters a lot more than the second to most.

If by "existential stability" you mean "resilience," then why don't you just say "resilience?"

To most the first matters more, until the second matters at all, and then the second matters a LOT more.
You are right about "most" people.  Most people aren't monetary architects and shouldn't be made to think of either of these and ought live their happy lives without such concerns.

The few intrepid folks that find their way to this cranny of the internet are not like most people.  Bitcoin folks are also generally smarter and more attractive than "most" people.  These people can handle such distinctions and recognize the importance of both.

Going out on the limb that your question isn't rhetorical...I'll make the joke of taking it seriously.
I don't just say resilience because by "existential stability" I mean precisely "existential stability" and not some other thing.  Resilience is one of many factors of existential stability and so it is easier for some people to understand and discuss.  The parenthetical was to be helpful for that understanding, but they are not generally equivalent terms, just sufficiently exchangeable in this context.

[diabLEEca]

Hey guys, weren't you supposed to observe the walls in this thread by any chance? How come nobody's mentioned how someone on Huobi has been manipulating the price today with a 2-3k wall at 2000 CNY which keeps appearing and disappearing?



Also, the short-term uptrend and the medium-term downtrend lines are just about to cross...

[NewLiberty]

...

I don't think I've ever seen anyone so willfully dense as our beloved professor.

Yes, he is frequently mistaken.  He thinks you need a Coinbase account to pay Microsoft?  No, that would be only if you want to RECEIVE bitcoin from Microsoft.  (for example when getting a refund).

Edit: Wait, that's Overstock that does that.  Doesn't MSFT use Bitpay?

I give him a pass though, by his reports, Jorge has never actually used the stuff, so anything practical is likely not something he would be expected to understand.

[greenlion]

all that talk about mass adoption and price skyrocketing, especially in 3rd world countries.  

did any of you consider scenario where mass adoption leads to massive price decrease?

the more people use it to transfer value (transfer as opposed to hodl) less value it has.

Perhaps you can talk us through the precise mechanism whereby millions of people buy in to bitcoin but the price falls.

Quantity theory of money, equation of exchange, velocity increasing, ceteris parabis.

Your analysis shows how price rises with adoption not falls.
You do understand what the "Quantity theory of money" applies to don't you?
Try again?

(Or are you expecting a sudden "quantitative contraction" of all fiat?)

I'm not the person with the "analysis", read what you're replying to.

What I'm saying is exactly correct and unambiguous, providing supporting information to explain the theoretical basis for the claim made by the original person quoted.

Then you do understand.  Appreciate the clarification.
As to unambiguous, you offered only bullet points without stating your conclusion or position.

With all due respect, you're just passive-aggressively grasping at straws to continue fighting me like a douche.

Exactly what I'm saying is immediately obvious to anybody with any cursory exposure to introductory economics whatsoever. I don't need to write the kind of sophomoric wall of text bullshit I'm seeing here to be correct about a very obvious point.

[hdbuck]

Hey guys, weren't you supposed to observe the walls in this thread by any chance? How come nobody's mentioned how someone on Huobi has been manipulating the price today with a 2-3k wall at 2000 CNY which keeps appearing and disappearing?

https://i.imgur.com/wYI4aHv.png

Also, the short-term uptrend and the medium-term downtrend lines are just about to cross...

https://i.imgur.com/wfFh4x4.png

this is no wall observer thread anymore.

[NotLambchop]

...
I don't just say resilience because by "existential stability" I mean precisely "existential stability" and not some other thing...

The word "existential" doesn't mean what you think it does.  To people who dropped out of grade school it means nothing, and to those who've persevered through high school it brings to mind angsty books by Sartre & Camus.

Doing a Google search for the word pair "existential stability" nets me a total of 2,070 results, none of which (other than your typings) suggest your intended meaning.
"Existential stability" is just another meaningless phrase, coined by idiots trying to sound smart.

[NotLambchop]

...
With all due respect, you're just passive-aggressively grasping at straws to continue fighting me like a douche.
...

[octaft]

To most the first matters more, until the second matters at all, and then the second matters a LOT more.
You are right about "most" people.  Most people aren't monetary architects and shouldn't be made to think of either of these and ought live their happy lives without such concerns.

The few intrepid folks that find their way to this cranny of the internet are not like most people.  Bitcoin folks are also generally smarter and more attractive than "most" people.  These people can handle such distinctions and recognize the importance of both.

Going out on the limb that your question isn't rhetorical...I'll make the joke of taking it seriously.
I don't just say resilience because by "existential stability" I mean precisely "existential stability" and not some other thing.  Resilience is one of many factors of existential stability and so it is easier for some people to understand and discuss.  The parenthetical was to be helpful for that understanding, but they are not generally equivalent terms, just sufficiently exchangeable in this context.

I was sure you were serious (and ready to call you out on your obnoxiously pompous and condescending tone, FYI), until you said "more attractive," and now I have no idea if you're trolling me or what.

[octaft]

still going strong.  Just ask Microsoft.

No need to ask.  They want dollars, and will not accept bitcoin.  If you want to pay with bitcoin, you must open an account at Coinbase, sell your coins to Coinbase, and tell Coinbase to send the dollars to Microsoft.  

What are you talking about??

Edit: you know full well that Microsoft is accepting BTC for digital content

"You can only use Bitcoin to add money to your Microsoft account and then purchase digital goods at select Microsoft online stores. You can’t use Bitcoin to purchase Microsoft products and services directly at this time."

https://commerce.microsoft.com/PaymentHub/Help/Right?helppagename=CSV_BitcoinHowTo.htm

Apparently adding money to your account is done through bitpay.

[NewLiberty]

To most the first matters more, until the second matters at all, and then the second matters a LOT more.
You are right about "most" people.  Most people aren't monetary architects and shouldn't be made to think of either of these and ought live their happy lives without such concerns.

The few intrepid folks that find their way to this cranny of the internet are not like most people.  Bitcoin folks are also generally smarter and more attractive than "most" people.  These people can handle such distinctions and recognize the importance of both.

Going out on the limb that your question isn't rhetorical...I'll make the joke of taking it seriously.
I don't just say resilience because by "existential stability" I mean precisely "existential stability" and not some other thing.  Resilience is one of many factors of existential stability and so it is easier for some people to understand and discuss.  The parenthetical was to be helpful for that understanding, but they are not generally equivalent terms, just sufficiently exchangeable in this context.

I was sure you were serious (and ready to call you out on your obnoxiously pompous and condescending tone, FYI), until you said "more attractive," and now I have no idea if you're trolling me or what.

Please feel welcome to call me out on anything you like.
We're all friends here and working to understand things better than we did yesterday by chipping away at the parts that aren't yet perfect.

Today I'm in an argumentative mood.  Don't take it too personally.  I don't really know how attractive you are, its was just a general observation.

[JorgeStolfi]

What are you talking about??
Edit: you know full well that Microsoft is accepting BTC for digital content

It is not, it is accepting dollars through Bitpay (not Coinbase as I said, sorry). 
http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-adds-bitcoin-payments-xbox-games-mobile-content/
Bitpay's name is shown in small letters on the payment page, but it is there --
converting the bitcoins to dollars, which is what Microsoft gets.

[noobtrader]

Hey guys, weren't you supposed to observe the walls in this thread by any chance? How come nobody's mentioned how someone on Huobi has been manipulating the price today with a 2-3k wall at 2000 CNY which keeps appearing and disappearing?

https://i.imgur.com/wYI4aHv.png

Also, the short-term uptrend and the medium-term downtrend lines are just about to cross...

https://i.imgur.com/wfFh4x4.png

this is no wall observer thread anymore.

yes, this thread has become beartrollfest picnic thread

[JorgeStolfi]

I give him a pass though, by his reports, Jorge has never actually used the stuff, so anything practical is likely not something he would be expected to understand.

Thanks for the understanding.  And I don't buy software from Microsoft either. 

[octaft]

To most the first matters more, until the second matters at all, and then the second matters a LOT more.
You are right about "most" people.  Most people aren't monetary architects and shouldn't be made to think of either of these and ought live their happy lives without such concerns.

The few intrepid folks that find their way to this cranny of the internet are not like most people.  Bitcoin folks are also generally smarter and more attractive than "most" people.  These people can handle such distinctions and recognize the importance of both.

Going out on the limb that your question isn't rhetorical...I'll make the joke of taking it seriously.
I don't just say resilience because by "existential stability" I mean precisely "existential stability" and not some other thing.  Resilience is one of many factors of existential stability and so it is easier for some people to understand and discuss.  The parenthetical was to be helpful for that understanding, but they are not generally equivalent terms, just sufficiently exchangeable in this context.

I was sure you were serious (and ready to call you out on your obnoxiously pompous and condescending tone, FYI), until you said "more attractive," and now I have no idea if you're trolling me or what.

Please feel welcome to call me out on anything you like.
We're all friends here and working to understand things better than we did yesterday by chipping away at the parts that aren't yet perfect.

Today I'm in an argumentative mood.  Don't take it too personally.  I don't really know how attractive you are, its was just a general observation.

Well I kind of already did. You speak quite pompously overall, and the entire tone of your previous post is very "we intelligent, privileged few."

[NewLiberty]

What are you talking about??
Edit: you know full well that Microsoft is accepting BTC for digital content

It is not, it is accepting dollars through Bitpay (not Coinbase as I said, sorry). 
http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-adds-bitcoin-payments-xbox-games-mobile-content/
Bitpay's name is shown in small letters on the payment page, but it is there --
converting the bitcoins to dollars, which is what Microsoft gets.

Knowing this would take inside knowledge of Microsoft's accounting (which from the source you site here I'd guess you don't have).  Microsoft may receive Bitcoin and Dollars, only Bitcoin, or only dollars from BitPay.  Their system allows for all of these payment mechanisms.  

For what its worth, Bitpay's systems will also allow Microsoft to open the option to pay their payroll with bitcoin in the percentage that an employee chooses.
Its not the old days anymore, its almost 2015.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[NewLiberty]

To most the first matters more, until the second matters at all, and then the second matters a LOT more.
You are right about "most" people.  Most people aren't monetary architects and shouldn't be made to think of either of these and ought live their happy lives without such concerns.

The few intrepid folks that find their way to this cranny of the internet are not like most people.  Bitcoin folks are also generally smarter and more attractive than "most" people.  These people can handle such distinctions and recognize the importance of both.

Going out on the limb that your question isn't rhetorical...I'll make the joke of taking it seriously.
I don't just say resilience because by "existential stability" I mean precisely "existential stability" and not some other thing.  Resilience is one of many factors of existential stability and so it is easier for some people to understand and discuss.  The parenthetical was to be helpful for that understanding, but they are not generally equivalent terms, just sufficiently exchangeable in this context.

I was sure you were serious (and ready to call you out on your obnoxiously pompous and condescending tone, FYI), until you said "more attractive," and now I have no idea if you're trolling me or what.

Please feel welcome to call me out on anything you like.
We're all friends here and working to understand things better than we did yesterday by chipping away at the parts that aren't yet perfect.

Today I'm in an argumentative mood.  Don't take it too personally.  I don't really know how attractive you are, its was just a general observation.

Well I kind of already did. You speak quite pompously overall, and the entire tone of your previous post is very "we intelligent, privileged few."

And I thank you for it.
You are intelligent and privileged.  That doesn't make you bad.

[FreeBambi]

...
yes, this thread has become beartrollfest picnic thread

Care for a nice Chianti?

http://s17.postimg.org/ru42bom73/Capture.jpg

[tarmi]

Well I kind of already did. You speak quite pompously overall, and the entire tone of your previous post is very "we intelligent, privileged few."

if you think about it, "we" actually doesnt exist in reality. it is a construct.

few are intelligent and privileged by definition, "we" aint.