Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[gentlemand]

no one really thinks it is ...right?

EJECT THIS MAN FROM THIS PLACE

It's guaranteed that right now presidents, kings and prime ministers are lining up outside the trailers of spotty and hostile early miners attempting to persuade them to sell to them so they can save their national economies.

Get with the muthafuckin' plan.

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[1714110603]

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[Elwar]

My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

What kind of monkey is your mum looking to adopt?

[DutchTrades]

Why does entire Greece needs to adopt Bitcoin? If Greece leaves the Eurozone and takes the Drachma as national currency, it's on the people to decide wich currency fits them. I'm sure that quite some people in Greece have heard of Bitcoin. If only a small percentage (let's say 20%, 2,2 million people) will put (a part of) their savings into Bitcoin, than we will surely be on a price of $1500/BTC . Best case cenario: those 20% of people will cause a chain reaction, more and more people will use it, and the Greece government have no other choise than take Bitcoin as a national currency.

[empowering]

My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Actually, its very high chance for Greece to adopt bitcoin.
The government of Greece may be crooked, but they are not stupid! They can see how quickly and easily people became rich with bitcoin. They will surely want to become rich also, don't they?
Mark my words: Greece will adopt bitcoin in the coming years and will be the new kind of superpower, that gets it's power by it's immense riches.

You sir are a geniouz.... surely a moriarty level master.

You are also utterly utterly insane.

[empowering]

My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

What kind of monkey is your mum looking to adopt?

A jewish one?

[empowering]

no one really thinks it is ...right?

EJECT THIS MAN FROM THIS PLACE

It's guaranteed that right now presidents, kings and prime ministers are lining up outside the trailers of spotty and hostile early miners attempting to persuade them to sell to them so they can save their national economies.

Get with the muthafuckin' plan.

......ah my bad.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[soullyG]

At least trollchop is trying harder with the new accounts  

PS. DOOOOM?

[Bicmac1973]

Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here.

Thanks for the link, quite interesting lecture. My conclusion is that we talked about two different things: Gresham's Law is driven by the public, while the official legal tender is issued by more or less state-controlled institutions. It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

Yanis Varoufakis has an opinion regarding Bitcoin though. The following article is more than 2 years old and I am sure it has already been posted here. But maybe someone finds it interesting:

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

[LFC_Bitcoin]

My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Whilst I'm a massive bull & backer of bitcoin & it's future success there is no way a country can adopt bitcoin as its national currency right now.
Don't get me wrong it'd be great for bitcoins price & all of us financially but it's not ready to be a national currency.
It's pointless discussing any way because Greece aren't going to have it as their currency.

[empowering]

My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Whilst I'm a massive bull & backer of bitcoin & it's future success there is no way a country can adopt bitcoin as its national currency right now.
Don't get me wrong it'd be great for bitcoins price & all of us financially but it's not ready to be a national currency.
It's pointless discussing any way because Greece aren't going to have it as their currency.

that is my point....

[macsga]

Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here.

Thanks for the link, quite interesting lecture. My conclusion is that we talked about two different things: Gresham's Law is driven by the public, while the official legal tender is issued by more or less state-controlled institutions. It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

Yanis Varoufakis has an opinion regarding Bitcoin though. The following article is more than 2 years old and I am sure it has already been posted here. But maybe someone finds it interesting:

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

Your conclusion is right; Bitcoin cannot be issued by Greek Govt. (like i.e. Drachma). The idea though, is to legalize its use as a second currency and let Gresham's law take over. I know about Varoufakis thesis on the subject but it seems he somehow changed his ideas from 2013:
1. http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/02/15/bitcoin-a-flawed-currency-blueprint-with-a-potentially-useful-application-for-the-eurozone/
2. http://www.grreporter.info/en/varoufakis_advisor_singaporean_bitcoin_company/12732

Look, we're chasing dragons here. I know what I'm proposing is beyond the wildest imagination of the most insane speculator here (NLC?   ) but; that's what we are here for... right?

[empowering]

Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here.

Thanks for the link, quite interesting lecture. My conclusion is that we talked about two different things: Gresham's Law is driven by the public, while the official legal tender is issued by more or less state-controlled institutions. It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

Yanis Varoufakis has an opinion regarding Bitcoin though. The following article is more than 2 years old and I am sure it has already been posted here. But maybe someone finds it interesting:

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

Yanis Varou-fuck-this.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

If a large group adopts bitcoin now, at the current price or at a higher price, they would be sharing their wealth with the early adopters in proportion.

For example, if Greece adopted bitcoin, and 9 million BTC were circulating there with a value equivalent to 10'000 USD/BTC, then Satoshi's 1 million BTC would allow him to buy 10 billion USD worth of Greek property.  Greece then would become 10 billion USD poorer.

That is why no sane government should allow privately issued money: the people who issue it take wealth from those who use it.

When the government issues more money, the government is taking wealth from its citizens, so it is just another tax.  It may be a stupid kind of tax, but people tolerate it because the government is supposed to give that wealth back as public services. 

When the banks issue more money through fractional reserve lending, they are taking that wealth for themselves.  Citizens should not tolerate that, but most do not understand what is going on.  I have only a foggy notion myself...

[empowering]

It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

If a large group adopts bitcoin now, at the current price or at a higher price, they would be sharing their wealth with the early adopters in proportion.

For example, if Greece adopted bitcoin, and 9 million BTC were circulating there with a value equivalent to 10'000 USD/BTC, then Satoshi's 1 million BTC would allow him to buy 10 billion USD worth of Greek property.  Greece then would become 10 billion USD poorer.

That is why no sane government should allow privately issued money: the people who issue it take wealth from those who use it.

When the government issues more money, the government is taking wealth from its citizens, so it is just another tax.  It may be a stupid kind of tax, but people tolerate it because the government is supposed to give that wealth back as public services. 

When the banks issue more money through fractional reserve lending, they are taking that wealth for themselves.  Citizens should not tolerate that, but most do not understand what is going on.  I have only a foggy notion myself...

Good thing there is no such thing as a sane government

[Brewins]

My mum is more likely to adopt a monkey than Greece are to adopt BTC.

Increased usage I can imagine.... government official adoption so to speak.... is surely not even on the cards, no one really thinks it is ...right?

Actually, its very high chance for Greece to adopt bitcoin.
The government of Greece may be crooked, but they are not stupid! They can see how quickly and easily people became rich with bitcoin. They will surely want to become rich also, don't they?
Mark my words: Greece will adopt bitcoin in the coming years and will be the new kind of superpower, that gets it's power by it's immense riches.

I doubt. Even in the unlikely event that greece adopts crypto, it would not be BTC, otherwise any drug dealer that sold through SR and hoarded some BTC would be a rich greek.

They would launch their own coin, probably with major modifications too

[Fatman3001]

It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

If a large group adopts bitcoin now, at the current price or at a higher price, they would be sharing their wealth with the early adopters in proportion.

For example, if Greece adopted bitcoin, and 9 million BTC were circulating there with a value equivalent to 10'000 USD/BTC, then Satoshi's 1 million BTC would allow him to buy 10 billion USD worth of Greek property.  Greece then would become 10 billion USD poorer.

That is why no sane government should allow privately issued money: the people who issue it take wealth from those who use it.

When the government issues more money, the government is taking wealth from its citizens, so it is just another tax.  It may be a stupid kind of tax, but people tolerate it because the government is supposed to give that wealth back as public services. 

When the banks issue more money through fractional reserve lending, they are taking that wealth for themselves.  Citizens should not tolerate that, but most do not understand what is going on.  I have only a foggy notion myself...

Good thing there is no such thing as a sane government

Bitcoins are issued by miners, who pay to keep the network secure. Thus making bitcoins valuable. There are no freebies.

[Bicmac1973]

Adopting BTC as national currency would be suicide for Greece. Their problem is not that the Euro inflation is too high, but it is too low. Bitcoin is deflationary in the long term, so their debts would explode, when BTC price rises.

That would be contrary to the aforementioned Gresham's Law. I'd indulge you to read it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

The undervalued currency would (in this case) be the EUR. That means the debt in EUR will be lowered as the BTC would go up and finally eliminated when BTC reaches a high rate. Such an experiment is -of course- non applicable on a country under a sovereign coalition, so we can only assume here (both me and you) what we *think* it will happen.

You could also be right and me just typing nonsense here.

Thanks for the link, quite interesting lecture. My conclusion is that we talked about two different things: Gresham's Law is driven by the public, while the official legal tender is issued by more or less state-controlled institutions. It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

Yanis Varoufakis has an opinion regarding Bitcoin though. The following article is more than 2 years old and I am sure it has already been posted here. But maybe someone finds it interesting:

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

Your conclusion is right; Bitcoin cannot be issued by Greek Govt. (like i.e. Drachma). The idea though, is to legalize its use as a second currency and let Gresham's law take over. I know about Varoufakis thesis on the subject but it seems he somehow changed his ideas from 2013:
1. http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/02/15/bitcoin-a-flawed-currency-blueprint-with-a-potentially-useful-application-for-the-eurozone/
2. http://www.grreporter.info/en/varoufakis_advisor_singaporean_bitcoin_company/12732

Look, we're chasing dragons here. I know what I'm proposing is beyond the wildest imagination of the most insane speculator here (NLC?   ) but; that's what we are here for... right?

I think he didn't change his ideas so much. In the first article, he again bashes Bitcoin for being deflationary, but proposes a more or less government-controlled "FT-Coin" altcoin with built-in inflation as a special feature. He is definitely not the first one with wet dreams about a tamed government- or bank-controlled bitcoin with freely configurable inflation rate though.
The second one is about a consultancy service he provided to a company in Singapore. It does not contain any remarks regarding his opinion related to Bitcoin.

Just let's hold our coins and see what happens ...

[klee]

It may well be possible that the greece public will adapt BTC as an unofficial currency for everyday use.

If a large group adopts bitcoin now, at the current price or at a higher price, they would be sharing their wealth with the early adopters in proportion.

For example, if Greece adopted bitcoin, and 9 million BTC were circulating there with a value equivalent to 10'000 USD/BTC, then Satoshi's 1 million BTC would allow him to buy 10 billion USD worth of Greek property.  Greece then would become 10 billion USD poorer.

That is why no sane government should allow privately issued money: the people who issue it take wealth from those who use it.

When the government issues more money, the government is taking wealth from its citizens, so it is just another tax.  It may be a stupid kind of tax, but people tolerate it because the government is supposed to give that wealth back as public services.  

When the banks issue more money through fractional reserve lending, they are taking that wealth for themselves.  Citizens should not tolerate that, but most do not understand what is going on.  I have only a foggy notion myself...

Satoshi should donate his coins to the Greek gvt

EDIT: If it agrees to adopt BTC as it's currency
EDIT2: This will also solve the distribution issue once and for all (of his stake)