Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Elwar]

bitfinex   1,806,866   a few seconds ago   0.255

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[empowering]

oh

[Paashaas]

Bear market is closing slowly, next bull market is critical. Moon time!

[DonQuijote]

Bitstamp just broke out the log downtrend.  

RIP Bears.

[empowering]

So........ tomorrow is the 30th.


Anyone got a spare €1.6bn (£1.1bn)?


Release the jackals !!

[Elwar]

[empowering]

Bitcoiner in a nutshell:

Economic Collapse

           Good.

Of course its not good......


But that ain't the work of Bitcoiners is it now?


Not good, but quite inevitable ....... non?


In case you have not been paying attention ........ the situation is quite fucked (and the writing on the wall has been there for many many years, the can cannot be kicked forever, can it now lambie pambie?


Again..... this is NOT THE WORK OF BITCOINERS IS IT NOW?  nope.


The ones with the actual power to sort this out, seem to not give a fuck.


But somehow it is Bitcoiners that are the ones with a mind set that this is "good"



Funny shit lambie , funny shit.

[Elwar]

When the economy is built on debt and false promises, a collapse is the best thing that can happen.

Now they can build based on reality. Hopefully with a sound currency.

Not holding my breath though.

[inca]

Paging tarmi and the dumb shit nlc. Price continuing to malfunction!

[8up]

Can you imagine we'll never visit this price level again? Possibly not. At least I can't. Nevertheless, it might be time to say goodbye.

[rebuilder]

Just curious, if I were to fly down to Greece in this environment to capitalize on the market would it be better to bring Euros down to buy bitcoins for cash or would it be better to sell bitcoins for euros?

You'd have to find someone with cash, needing to deliver funds abroad, and unable or unwilling to travel. The recipient would need to accept Bitcoin. Then you might have a captive audience for BTC sales.

Otherwise... If a Greek has cash, why would they value BTC over that cash? If they don't have cash, would you take an IOU from someone with funds locked up in a Greek bank?

I guess there may be a niche that has a lot of cash, can't organize transport of cash outside Greece at all or simply not fast enough, and needs to pay people abroad. Some might even be running a business with cash inflow, however long that may last. It seems like an edge case to me, since you'd still need to get the cash money out of the country.

[madonnino]

thanks GREXIT

[macsga]

thanks GREXIT

Yeah, could be the reason to celebrate for the years to come. The collapse of the system was inevitable, the trigger was missing...

[empowering]

Quoting myself from another thread:

-I was trying to buy something online (costing just 2-3$) with my greek visa, and the charge was getting rejected.
-Gas stations take only cash.
-Suppliers of stuff, take only cash as they are afraid of the consequences of accepting digital payments, and with that I include bank payments (they are afraid they will not be able to withdraw it, or their money could be bailed-in / converted to drachma etc etc).

There is in a sense a fungibility issue with the euro in Greece right now. Digital euros / bank euros "suck" as they are useless to transact. Cash euro is what counts for most people, even companies.

Times like these, you *realize*, not theoretically, but by living it, that you wouldn't trade your crypto for fiat and that crypto is immensely more useful (ie you can actually transact, when with digital cash / banks / cards etc you can't).

The sense of value increases in a way that is unexpected: I wouldn't trade a single BTC even if I was offered >1000 euro in the bank in these conditions. The euros in the bank are useless.

Just curious, if I were to fly down to Greece in this environment to capitalize on the market would it be better to bring Euros down to buy bitcoins for cash or would it be better to sell bitcoins for euros?

My advice if you wanted to sell BTC in Greece for cash now , would be take a few ex special forces bods with you, and some very very large bags, source some guns, and try not to piss off the local mafioso and thugs that would want to help relive you of your cash.

Remember on small islands there is only so far you can run, and news travels quick.

 

[Fakhoury]

thanks GREXIT

Yeah, could be the reason to celebrate for the years to come. The collapse of the system was inevitable, the trigger was missing...

macsga, serious talking, should I be sad or happy ?

Sad for seeing a countries economy is tearing into parts, or happy as a bitcoin investor.

I can't build my happiness on other's people sadness, what do you think ?

[empowering]

Bitcoiner in a nutshell:

Economic Collapse

           Good.

Of course its not good......


But that ain't the work of Bitcoiners is it now?


Not good, but quite inevitable ....... non?


In case you have not been paying attention ........ the situation is quite fucked (and the writing on the wall has been there for many many years, the can cannot be kicked forever, can it now lambie pambie?


Again..... this is NOT THE WORK OF BITCOINERS IS IT NOW?  nope.


The ones with the actual power to sort this out, seem to not give a fuck.


But somehow it is Bitcoiners that are the ones with a mind set that this is "good"



Funny shit lambie , funny shit.

Lol, death is inevitable, though only a bitcoiner would call living life "kicking the can."
Only a bitcoiner would celebrate death being painful and embarrassing.

Bitcoin doesn't solve Greece's financial problems.  You're celebrating the misfortune of others.
But hey, this is gonna be deleted by a mod any second, because I'm raining on your funeral parade

Yeah, deleted in seconds, which only highlights bitcoiner's fear of open debate.
Oh well, I can't cure you of your fail, but can try some palliative care to make the rest of your life ("Kicking the can," in Bitcoiner parlance) more bearable.
Soon you'll receive the hot gay porn you crave and so richly deserve

ermmmm you cannot read properly?

I do not think BTC is going to solve anything to do with Greece right now, could you point to where I say that? (as opposed to where I say the exact opposite?)

Where am I celebrating ?

Please learn how to read.

Sorry but if you are unaware of the concept of kicking the can and cannot see it directly infront of you these past years, then there is no help for you.

Also just as a reminder

I haven't told you what I think.
I have politely asked you a question.  The politeness is clear from the word "sorry," while the question smiley at the end obviates the whole magella being a question.

So, sans the etiquette:  What did you mean?

Something has got to give... the music has got to stop at somepoint, infinite bond market bull mode and high yields are unsustainable.

I mean that QE stimulus buying of the bonds and propping up the demand is keeping the price of the bonds up and stimulating demand, but is also keeping the yield low.

I mean that they are effectively borrowing from peter to pay paul.

I mean that the current situation is not sustainable in its current state, not in the US,  not in Japan, UK, Canada, not in Eurozone at large but especially Portugal, Italy, France, Spain, Greece, and also as it goes not in China it seems either.

I mean that propping up the markets and the bond markets cannot go on forever.

 However I also mean removing the stimulus will increase the supply of bonds on the open market, and due to less buying at real levels, and increased supply there will be less demand and the prices will fall, which will  lead to the yields on the treasuires having to increase to entice demand, and they can only go so high for so long and be "sustainable" for a government, once you get over 7% you are on rocky ground. Conversley the higher the demand for the bond on the open market, the higher the price of the bond, and the lower the effective yield is.

 I also mean that low interest rate cheap easy money cannot go on for ever, and weaning the system off of this meddling will have consequences.

I mean that the debt is out of control, and "printing" out of it has never worked out that well for any country.

I mean that the underlying base of our monetary system is flawed.

I mean that as is the nature of the beast there are cycles, and we are due a down cycle, and I do not think the piper has yet been paid for the past 20 years worth of recklessness.

I mean that eventually the music always stops, as it always does, and people rush to perceived safety...there is a risk people see US bonds (Jpy Bonds etc) are more risky than in the past (safer than many things still though, for now at least) there is a risk that they are just less attractive to investors.

I mean that investors and nations might already be holding too much US denominated debt...and be having their own problems.

I mean we are not alone on this world and our economies are all interlinked, and that the games being played which are systemic, will have systemic consequences when it goes wrong.

I mean that a nation will eventually if they keep playing this game without addressing the underlying problems, default, when there is not enough money to take from peter to give to paul. (maybe that is the whole idea)

I mean that things go wrong (or maybe even right as the case may prove to be)

I mean that perpetual debt growth in the manner we have seen in the west in the past 20-30 years is insane.

I mean that confidence in the current system is in question.  

I mean we are being played like violins...

I mean that these games invariably lead to consequences for the average joe, no matter how they pan out, be it crash or contraction.

I mean that either the problems need to be addressed, and therefore some has given, or the consequences will have to be paid, which will also mean something has given, or they need to change all of the rules...and the system itself which again means something has given.

I mean there will need to be changes... because the situation cannot carry on in this manner, and there will likely be some pain no matter how it goes down.

I mean there is time and there is timing... but there is also kicking the can down the road, in the face of total uncertainty on how to resolve the issues at hand... they are not in a hurry, and therefore are likely to not do anything that soon.. meanwhile people and other countires grow impatient and have designs of their own. Maybe forced evolution will be the answer.

I mean..  

The universe is racing towards heat death.


 

[biggus dickus]

Just curious, if I were to fly down to Greece in this environment to capitalize on the market would it be better to bring Euros down to buy bitcoins for cash or would it be better to sell bitcoins for euros?

You'd have to find someone with cash, needing to deliver funds abroad, and unable or unwilling to travel. The recipient would need to accept Bitcoin. Then you might have a captive audience for BTC sales.

Otherwise... If a Greek has cash, why would they value BTC over that cash? If they don't have cash, would you take an IOU from someone with funds locked up in a Greek bank?

I guess there may be a niche that has a lot of cash, can't organize transport of cash outside Greece at all or simply not fast enough, and needs to pay people abroad. Some might even be running a business with cash inflow, however long that may last. It seems like an edge case to me, since you'd still need to get the cash money out of the country.

How long until they make rules stopping people taking large amounts of cash out of the country? Most cash has a metal strip woven into it that would trigger metal detectors in airports so it would be nearly impossible to try to get it through customs without declaring it.

[empowering]

The problem with the game of chicken is that it's entirely possible for both sides to lose.

Indeed... the problem is, is that from the Eurozone/Troika/German point of view, they are not really just negotiating with Greece (as other members of the eurozone are looking very closely at what Greece manages to win out of the negotiations) so any decision made that loosens conditions for the greece, will be expected by certain other nations.
 
From the Greek side,  Syriza will be booted out on their arse by this time next year if they do not at least appear to come good on their pre election promises.

 The underlying problem for the eurozone is that if Greece were to set a precedent by leaving the currency (possibly the union) then it will show that membership is not the one way road that many thought it was...  and then what happens if Podemos wins his election campaign ? then all of a sudden, confidence in the Euro will take a further knock.

All of this is going on, in a fiscal and political union, that is not balanced, not intergrated, does not share the same culture, does not have regulated tax, and provides little benefit to many member states of the union, let alone the people from those countries.  It is as if Europe wants to be a union, but not really and only when it suits the major players.

of course on top of this is the fact that many European members and their banks are in fact insolvent, and that in actual fact the euro wide (global) can kicking has not stopped at all, not anywhere in the zone, and not across the pond either, it is all a charade................... and Greece is just the sharp end of the stick at the moment.

Chances are that the alternatives to a "solution"  are so unpalatable that a compromise will be reached (to kick that can further down the road)  though if they do not make headway, and v soon, then the "markets" will force the situation... billions of euros per week are already exiting the Greek banking system, and that could turn into a problem if this current state of brinkmanship continues. That being said, with both sides digging their heels in, maybe we will get to see fireworks and a grexit, odds  are the highest they have been for this scenario, for quite some time, and you might even say it is becoming inevitable (eventually)... So maybe Merkel et al will decide that the Eurozone can take a grexit from the currency union at this point in time, and hope that in doing so, it will have a big stick to wave around at the rest of Europe.

My gut tells me they will do all they can to keep the union together and continue to kick the can down the road.

My spidey senses are telling me, that this situation is symptomatic of far larger underlying issues within the union/globe and that something might be about to give... because in fact it is only a matter of time before something HAS to give, so in that case I would not be surprised if they try and stem the flow of blood here and now either.

Gotta doff your hat to the Swiss, they were the obvious canary in the mine.

[empowering]

Market doesn't react at all to the news of Germany not accepting Greece's request for new money?

Ahem, it is not very relevant for the Chinese gamblers at Huobi and OKCoin, is it?

Greece leaving the Euro, if it happens , will be relevant to everyone.....

I heard people say the same thing when Lehman/sub-prime mortgage fiasco was happening,   those same people still cannot figure out (7-8 years later) why they are working more, earning less, why their house is worth less, why their chicken and shopping costs more.

Greece does not operate in a vacuum, plus, make no mistake, Portugal, Spain, France, Italy are all looking very closely at what is happening, they also do not operate in a vacuum.

Even if there is a last minute compromise reached this week, even then, the future of Greece in the Euro is looking shaky. Elections coming up in other southern European countries soon too.

If you are in a position to be isolated and immune from the global financial situation, then bully for you, but while the world will not cave in on itself, neither will a grexit be an isolated event that effects only the Greeks.   

Greece is extremely small and has profiting from Europe.

?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Lambie thought 220 to 250 would last forever. That's a shame.