Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

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[tomothy]

once the exodus starts, there is no way back...

So, just keep calm and hodl on? I've transferred to my 'own' wallet finally. Bury it in the backyard and just check out until next year? I'm torn between wanting liquidity to increase holdings if there is doom and not wanting to sell due to possible moon. Back to waiting for Godot I guess, right? Not like i can get btc to an exchange in a timely fashion anyway, there should be some market action one way or another soon'.

[bargainbin]

...
I just thought he might know wtf is going on.

Everyone seems to automatically assume it's a spam attack without any proper data.

His definition of "spam" is, basically, "things we I don't want to happen."
Starting with that, what is happening *is* spam. Nothing more to be said.
A more interesting (and productive) approach would be "let's define spam, describe it, completely and exclusively, in code, so that a dumb machine can know if X is spam or not. Then we wouldn't need to keep having these pointless arguments."

Whatever is happening is happening now. So if we got some proper data to explain this massive surge, and some reliable interpretations of that data, then we could have a discussion on whether its a malicious attack or mainly a surge in genuine txs. If this blows over I guess we may never know, because the Bitcoin community is too polarized atm. But if this is real, if this doesn't blow over, both sides will need to look at the data and move on from there.

I don't care about the possible motivations behind what is happening, mainly because I can not possibly hope to create a [human] psych-analyzing ruleset for Bitcoin. For me, it's sufficient that a state, a condition *is possible*. It's possible, we don't like it -- how to make it so we either like it, don't care, or make it go away? Does what_is_happening point to our system being fundamentally flawed? Can it be fixed? At what cost? What are the possible repercussions?

See what I mean, sort of?

P.S. Of course, this is all happening in real time, and girls mainstream press are watching, so the lel factor is not lost on me

I sort of agree, but I'm not the one who needs to be convinced. Nor are you.

Right. I've given up quite a while ago. Now read stuff like this & don't even flinch. Don't even care if true or false -- just the fact that such a thing is possible is all I need to know

[jbreher]

from the grasp of complexity I was able to see, it seems impossible for me to have a clear point of view of the situation as we're still lacking data.

Agreed. For better or worse, the experiment is now being run. I would have rather run the other experiment (increasing the block size), but we are where we are - at least for the time being.

Yeah small blocks have problems, but what do you want? Bigger and bigger blocks? You do realize that in order to scale the Visa transactions we would need 800GB blocks... Seems complicated to me...

Nirvana fallacy. As long as the max block size stays suitably larger than the time-averaged demand, we don't need to be at Visa levels. How long until we do need to be at Visa levels? We don't know. Will Moore's Postulate get us there in time? We don't know. But even many smallblockers believe we can do larger right now  - as just one example, Adam Back publicly proclaimed '4MB no problem' a day or two ago.

Another part of the experiment underway (it is not separable) is the postulate that consistently full blocks will forestall adoption of Bitcoin, driving away potential users. I think this is likely to be proven true, but admittedly, I don't know.

[JayJuanGee]

Can't wait until small block retards are proved to be irresponsible idiots by empirical data points.

We should make a list of them, so in the future we will never forget who they were and humiliate them forever.

There's no such thing as a small block retard.

People have ideas and inclinations based on information that they have, and there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding what's even going on with the block chain; how much is spam, whether an increase is currently justified and/or wether segregated witness will take care of some if not all of this spamming blockage to the extent blockage exists and if not what would be better additional solutions going forward once segregated witness is in place.

Yeah people have different ideas and most of them are dumb ideas.

That's why it's important to relie on the empirical facts to judge who are right and who are the fucking irresponsible retards. It's darwinian selection. It's a process way more efficient than pointless debating.

So now we are going to see that full block are not good at all and see who were the dangerous retards who thought full blocks were somehow cool.

It's like the bolcheviks. They have ideas and they thought they were right. They talked badly of people who disagree with them. Then the testing of their ideas prove that they were huge retards and that they had their head full shit. Gmaxwell and Adam Back are the Lenin of their time. The sooner the market route around them, the better.

Your attempts at competition and survival of the fittest in this matter makes you sound like the retard, and you seem to want some kind of apocalypse, and in essence you are seeming to get really emotional about outcomes and hoping to get your way while hopefully and fantastically proving others wrong. In other words, sounds like you have dipshit thoughts.

[BldSwtTrs]

Small blockists you are making ETH holders rich. You are such huge loosers.

[JayJuanGee]

Can't wait until small block retards are proved to be irresponsible idiots by empirical data points.

We should make a list of them, so in the future we will never forget who they were and humiliate them forever.

There's no such thing as a small block retard.

People have ideas and inclinations based on information that they have, and there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding what's even going on with the block chain; how much is spam, whether an increase is currently justified and/or wether segregated witness will take care of some if not all of this spamming blockage to the extent blockage exists and if not what would be better additional solutions going forward once segregated witness is in place.

Yeah people have different ideas and most of them are dumb ideas.

That's why it's important to relie on the empirical facts to judge who are right and who are the fucking irresponsible retards. It's darwinian selection. It's a process way more efficient than pointless debating.

So now we are going to see that full block are not good at all and see who were the dangerous retards who thought full blocks were somehow cool.

It's like the bolcheviks. They have ideas and they thought they were right. They talked badly of people who disagree with them. Then the testing of their ideas prove that they were huge retards and that they had their head full shit. Gmaxwell and Adam Back are the Lenin of their time. The sooner the market route around them, the better.

It seems to me you have a very precise idea of your own position at least.

I don't have such brutal and clear opinion on this issue. And from the grasp of complexity I was able to see, it seems impossible for me to have a clear point of view of the situation as we're still lacking data.

Yeah small blocks have problems, but what do you want? Bigger and bigger blocks? You do realize that in order to scale the Visa transactions we would need 800GB blocks... Seems complicated to me...

Yep. In that respect, when dealing with money and likely to continue to be attacked by governments and financial institutions, security is much more important than trying to grow too fast and to act as if you are visa when you don't have institutionalized protections.

[bargainbin]

Small blockists you are making ETH holders rich. You are such huge loosers.

"Bitcoin: The only winning move is not to play."--brainyquote.com
"In Bitcoin, there are no winners, only losers."--brainyquote.com

[hdbuck]

Small blockists you are making ETH holders rich. You are such huge loosers.

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419126

[hdbuck]

Small blockists you are making ETH holders rich. You are such huge loosers.

"Bitcoin: The only winning move is not to play."--brainyquote.com
"In Bitcoin, there are no winners, only losers."--brainyquote.com

omg second time i kinda agree with this shmuck.

what is happening? 

[JayJuanGee]

Can't wait until small block retards are proved to be irresponsible idiots by empirical data points.

We should make a list of them, so in the future we will never forget who they were and humiliate them forever.

There's no such thing as a small block retard.

People have ideas and inclinations based on information that they have, and there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding what's even going on with the block chain; how much is spam, whether an increase is currently justified and/or wether segregated witness will take care of some if not all of this spamming blockage to the extent blockage exists and if not what would be better additional solutions going forward once segregated witness is in place.

Yeah people have different ideas and most of them are dumb ideas.

That's why it's important to relie on the empirical facts to judge who are right and who are the fucking irresponsible retards. It's darwinian selection. It's a process way more efficient than pointless debating.

So now we are going to see that full block are not good at all and see who were the dangerous retards who thought full blocks were somehow cool.

It's like the bolcheviks. They have ideas and they thought they were right. They talked badly of people who disagree with them. Then the testing of their ideas prove that they were huge retards and that they had their head full shit. Gmaxwell and Adam Back are the Lenin of their time. The sooner the market route around them, the better.

It seems to me you have a very precise idea of your own position at least.

I don't have such brutal and clear opinion on this issue. And from the grasp of complexity I was able to see, it seems impossible for me to have a clear point of view of the situation as we're still lacking data.

Yeah small blocks have problems, but what do you want? Bigger and bigger blocks? You do realize that in order to scale the Visa transactions we would need 800GB blocks... Seems complicated to me...

It's binary thinking. Eventually you will die so it's better to stop breathing right now, isn't it?

The choice is not between 1Mb or Visa-scale right now. The choice is between 1Mb and large enough blocksize to allow normal usage.

Yes and normal usage is working pretty good right now, and there are several scaling proposal and plans under consideration for the fairly near future.

[BldSwtTrs]

Can't wait until small block retards are proved to be irresponsible idiots by empirical data points.

We should make a list of them, so in the future we will never forget who they were and humiliate them forever.

There's no such thing as a small block retard.

People have ideas and inclinations based on information that they have, and there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding what's even going on with the block chain; how much is spam, whether an increase is currently justified and/or wether segregated witness will take care of some if not all of this spamming blockage to the extent blockage exists and if not what would be better additional solutions going forward once segregated witness is in place.

Yeah people have different ideas and most of them are dumb ideas.

That's why it's important to relie on the empirical facts to judge who are right and who are the fucking irresponsible retards. It's darwinian selection. It's a process way more efficient than pointless debating.

So now we are going to see that full block are not good at all and see who were the dangerous retards who thought full blocks were somehow cool.

It's like the bolcheviks. They have ideas and they thought they were right. They talked badly of people who disagree with them. Then the testing of their ideas prove that they were huge retards and that they had their head full shit. Gmaxwell and Adam Back are the Lenin of their time. The sooner the market route around them, the better.

It seems to me you have a very precise idea of your own position at least.

I don't have such brutal and clear opinion on this issue. And from the grasp of complexity I was able to see, it seems impossible for me to have a clear point of view of the situation as we're still lacking data.

Yeah small blocks have problems, but what do you want? Bigger and bigger blocks? You do realize that in order to scale the Visa transactions we would need 800GB blocks... Seems complicated to me...

Yep. In that respect, when dealing with money and likely to continue to be attacked by governments and financial institutions, security is much more important than trying to grow too fast and to act as if you are visa when you don't have institutionalized protections.

Size is the most powerful protection. The most economic transactions flow through Bitcoin the harder it is to attack it.

"Trying to grow too fast"   Transactions double every year. That's just natural growth. If you don't like growth go use some altcoins before Bitcoin become one.

[Mrpumperitis]

http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-ethereum-startup-blockchain/

[jbreher]

There necessarily cannot be an exact definition of spam and there certainly is much subjective interpretation into what constitutes as spam.

Sure there can. Maybe not for you, as I believe that what you desire for the definition of spam is 'any transaction of which I disapprove'.

while others would claim that all tx that are accepted by miners are valid and we should not ostracize or filter any types of tx's .

In my mind, this may be the best definition we can muster. If one trusts the unseen hand of the marketplace, this should be necessary and sufficient. Absent artificial restrictions, IMNSHO.

While I empathize and understand the argument, I would posit the true cost of tx is 5-10USD now and the network is heavily subsidizing all the security costs so if someone wanted to burden the network with unnecessary tx's that merely sends btc back and forth I would consider it fine if they were taking on that cost directly instead of burdening everyone else with these costs.

They are not burdening everyone else with these costs. The block reward is what it is, and it will continue being emitted regardless of the number of 'spam transactions'. Indeed, such low value transactions only amortizes this cost over more transactions, thereby reducing the sunk block reward cost of making a single transaction. Additionally, this is not a part of the problem that need be solved for the long term. As halvings go on, this part of the problem solves itself.

[BldSwtTrs]

Small blockists you are making ETH holders rich. You are such huge loosers.

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419126

MP shorted Ethereum during IPO. Such visionary.

Now go suck his dick.

[JayJuanGee]

systems must also be adaptive. otherwise they die. life and death in this sense are also only seperated by time.

the nice thing is. we will find out, if we were too fast too slow or exactly right. other cryptos will try different settings; and one of these will probably be far superior to the settings the divided bitcoin community set for itself.

Let them do it. Who cares?

And if it's acceptable, feasible and seems fitting for Bitcoin, then Bitcoin can incorporate it down the road. Bitcoin is not currently broken in spite the many loud mouth fudding about Bitcoin supposedly being broken.

[ChartBuddy]

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Explanation

[bargainbin]

... Bitcoin is not currently broken in spite the many loud mouth fudding about Bitcoin supposedly being broken.

[JayJuanGee]

systems must also be adaptive. otherwise they die.

Yes, we clearly disagree on the balance of dexterity and security. IMHO, There should be more testing done and we should be more careful as the market cap continues to grow.

My opinion is that real world feedback will make understand most small blockists how wrong they are regarding their priorities.

Thus far the majority of users doesn't appear to agree, but even if this were reversed our priorities wouldn't change and we would stay the course. We do not need an inefficient form of paypal. This has never been the goal and Bitcoin would be considered a failure if it devolved into this. We will move on with or without the bitcoin name and continue as always with our original goals of a decentralized and sovereign currency.

Good for you and for us if you work on something else once you will get defeated by the market. The farther you stay from  Bitcoin the better it will be for it.

"We don't need an inefficient form of paypal". You have absolutely no clue what we need or not. I have no clue neither, but at least I don't have the pretense of knowledge. Only the market knows.

And you bunch of bolcheviks, you think you are smarter than the market, and that's why you will fail and will end up working on an altcoin that nobody care about.

Even though you assert that you want the free market, you seem to be fighting it every step of the way. The current situation is 1mb, but you are fighting it and you want something else that is not ready for prime time.

[jbreher]

This just in: hdbuck, despite spending untold hours toiling away upon BCT, reveals himself bereft of belief in The Bitcoin Experiment:

"Bitcoin: The only winning move is not to play."--brainyquote.com
"In Bitcoin, there are no winners, only losers."--brainyquote.com

omg second time i kinda agree with this shmuck.