Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[hdbuck]

the thing is bitcoin won't shrink in size. but it won't grow either. it simply will stay the bonsai size it currently is.

all the money waiting on the sidelines will flow into alt-coins directly.

good luck with your empty bag - so called early adopters of bitcoin.

What empty bag?

Bitcoin holding its value strong over $400 now..

Wait for capital controls, NIRP et al. and all teh money panicking for a secured safe haven.

we are two months away from being one full year on this block size debate: http://gavinandresen.ninja/why-increasing-the-max-block-size-is-urgent

and within that year blocks have filled up that the red and blue 3d glasses person did not post this morning because we will see all the blocks are filled up all the time now.

the more the blocks fill up the more valuable the bitcoins become in relation to fiat currencies.

something wrong with this scenario .

People don't go there anymore it's too crowded!

Bitcoin, so useless you can't use it because there's too much demand

lmao

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[aztecminer]

Ok, Aztec, Quick question: Why does it matter who the current President is? How would this impact your analysis? Why is 'gimpcoin' in your opinion not rising in value until after that point.

because bitcoin is manipulated by the US Federal Govy .. they own it... thats why .

[AlexGR]

we are two months away from being one full year on this block size debate: http://gavinandresen.ninja/why-increasing-the-max-block-size-is-urgent

and within that year blocks have filled up that the red and blue 3d glasses person did not post this morning because we will see all the blocks are filled up all the time now.

the more the blocks fill up the more valuable the bitcoins become in relation to fiat currencies.

something wrong with this scenario .

Actually, one year is close to passing and nothing destructive has happened - contrary to his prediction. So it is conclusively proven that the block size increase he was saying was urgent, in fact wasn't that urgent.

Also... Gavin wrote:

If the number of transactions waiting gets large enough, the end result will be an over-saturated network, busy doing nothing productive. I don’t think that is likely– it is more likely people just stop using Bitcoin because transaction confirmation becomes increasingly unreliable.

Yeah, I mean I will stop using bitcoin because I don't want to pay 5 cents in fees or because blocks aren't issued like clockwork every 10 minutes (this has nothing to do with the blocksize debate btw). It's obvious users would rather pay tens of dollars to centralized paypal, credit cards and bank wires instead of the much cheaper, faster and decentralized bitcoin.

Not even pro-FUDders would write that stuff.

[JayJuanGee]

price will rise before it rises higher.


can't you see it happening?

420 is just the beginning

so whats the target price for February ? 500 600

i think is stuck range 400 - 500 ... bitcoin is selling the halving .

close... i think 350 to 500 is their range they are stuck in .. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

We gotta take bitcoin prices, one step at a time.  We are in a pretty decent "paralyzed" price range at the moment, especially, if you consider where we were 1 year ago... or even if you consider where we were 3 years ago (now, 2 years ago is another story... hahahahahaha)

Anyhow, back on point>>>> If prices go above $467, then to me it seems pretty likely we are going to break past $500, and if we break past $500, then likely the next major resistance point would be between $550 and $650; however, I am not willing to suggest that we are out of the $400s, even if we were to break into the $500s in the next few weeks.

As far as the downside,  $350 does seem like a pretty strong support level, so at this time, it would take a pretty sizeable amount of FUD to convince people to sell below that price point..... Upper $300s is in striking distance, but even that doesn't seem so likely at the moment...... given our paralysis that currently is largely between $416 and $440 (hovering in the upper end at the moment, and cannot really complain about that - unless you are a Mr. Aztec type or a BJA type or some other whiner that is trying to find reasons to complain).  


Edit:  On a side note, even some of the bears seem a bit more cheerful lately with rising prices... so possibly, the solution to a lot of the various whining is to bring up the price past $555 in order that we can experience a kind of Kumbaya moment.

gimpcoin is paralyzed until either scaling is fixed or obama leaves office. u might could go up but u aint going back down below 300 .. the reason i say 350 cuz they need to feel comfortable. it doesnt matter how u try twist it, gimpcoin remains gimped. it is not going down below 300, and it is unlikely to go above 500. i think i mentioned before that anything above 400 was above profit for my cold storage. i'm in the green on exchange and in cold storage. when i say "paralyzed", i'm not really talking about the price of bitcoin.. i am talking about the LOSS OF POWER that bitcoin is enjoying right now. can't go up, can't go down .. fukd. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

Yeah, it is all good and fun, and you are correct, until you are not.

Yep.. you picked our current price range, and to suggest that it is permanent is an attempt to make FUD and illogical stupid ass assertions out of a price range that currently is in place.

It would be nice to get rid of you, once bitcoin breaks out of this price range, but you are likely just like BJA, and we are not going to have such fortune.  You are merely going to change your lame ass theory to fit the new circumstances and then shill with your new lame framework.... I guess, so long as you are still getting paid for coming up with goofy and out-of-touch wishful fantasies.

[JayJuanGee]

Ok, Aztec, Quick question: Why does it matter who the current President is? How would this impact your analysis? Why is 'gimpcoin' in your opinion not rising in value until after that point.

LOOK at you... hahahahahahaha..

Acting as if Mr. Aztec actually has any meaningful thoughts or contribution that he could make.        


Edit:  or that he would actually answer the question.. .. reading his above response that avoids answering the question (regarding Why Obama specifically).

[bargainbin]

we are two months away from being one full year on this block size debate: http://gavinandresen.ninja/why-increasing-the-max-block-size-is-urgent

and within that year blocks have filled up that the red and blue 3d glasses person did not post this morning because we will see all the blocks are filled up all the time now.

the more the blocks fill up the more valuable the bitcoins become in relation to fiat currencies.

something wrong with this scenario .

People don't go there anymore it's too crowded!

Bitcoin, so useless you can't use it because there's too much demand

What is it you don't understand about your cardboard box never becoming the world reserve currency looooooo best club in town because must be bigger than a box to be taken seriously (amongst other things)?

Your days of luring the bridge & tunnel crowd into your shithole are over -- they're on to you
inb4 I never wanted anybody to come anyway, i like playing in my cardboard box, which is behind the dumpster, all by myself: LIAR!

[aztecminer]

the thing is bitcoin won't shrink in size. but it won't grow either. it simply will stay the bonsai size it currently is.

all the money waiting on the sidelines will flow into alt-coins directly.

good luck with your empty bag - so called early adopters of bitcoin.

Bitcoin holding its value strong over $400 now..

Wait for capital controls, NIRP et al. and all teh money (or even 0,01% of it) panicking for a secured safe haven.

we are two months away from being one full year on this block size debate: http://gavinandresen.ninja/why-increasing-the-max-block-size-is-urgent

and within that year blocks have filled up that the red and blue 3d glasses person did not post this morning because we will see all the blocks are filled up all the time now.

the more the blocks fill up the more valuable the bitcoins become in relation to fiat currencies.

something wrong with this scenario .

People don't go there anymore it's too crowded!

Bitcoin, so useless you can't use it because there's too much demand

lmao

never said it was useless.. i said it was broken....and oh yeah cant wait for janet yellens big time fix: "negative interest rates" ...

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Fatman3001]

Because fees add capacity. Got it!

Fees don't add capacity. They introduce antispamming disincentives to make use of existing capacity in a rational way.

Bitcoin is a p2p protocol that can be subject to numerous p2p attacks, including blockchain bloat attacks, mempool bloat etc - provided the fees are low and that there are co-operating miners that accept near-zero-cost txs for inclusion.

However, my point was that I thought a situation where large numbers of genuine transactions got stuck in the mempool was a situation we wanted to avoid.

First: Why? What will happen if the mempool is full? We've seen stress scenarios, we've seen what happened when private key lists were handed out - the network managed it pretty well. In the pre-0.12 scenario, let's say some nodes crashed due to lack of memory or something. Now this is fixed with mempool management parameters so you don't need to worry about that.

Second: If you can get txs relayed for near-zero-cost, then what's to say that you won't fill the mempool easily, even with 10mb blocks, by broadcasting 10 times the volume of current spam txs?

But as Mike Hearn predicted, users aren't just magically using the correct fee. Almost every fee is 0.0001. Which used to be a very good fee, but today it will get you stuck.

0.0001 (fixed) is 0.04$ per tx and it almost certainly will get you in within the first few blocks.
0.0001 per kb is in reality 0.000025 / 0.01$ for a 250byte tx so you'll wait until you bump it up.

There is nothing "very good" about it. It's way too low. Near zero cost fees attract near zero cost abuse. Plus it is not futureproof (the network will not be secure at this level, even if you have 2-10-30mb blocks). Plus it does not replace mining subsidy as it should be doing. Plus it does not give any serious motive to miners to mine the txs when the fees of 1mb block don't even get them 1% of the block reward.

Edit: So basically the situation is like this: the fee market doesn't work because users are insufficiently aware of the issue, and even if it did "work" it seems there are much more than 1MB per block worth of genuine txs at times.

The fee market works. If someone's wallet is crap in dealing with fees, then they should use external sites to determine what to pay. If they made a mistake, they should bump their fee up with RBF.

AlexGR: Who should decide what the fair price of a tx is?

In the presence of a rational mining market, the miners.

[sry, was away for awhile so I didn't see this]

Why it is bad that genuine txs are stuck in the mempool? Because people tend to want txs to arrive confirmed and ready in a timely manner. It's sort of part of the point with Bitcoin.

What you somehow seem unable to grasp is that this shouldn't be about how much fee you can collect to miners. It's about making sure the network works.

That was the problem Hearn was worried about. People don't use the correct txs because they don't know how or because they don't know it's an issue.

That's why the fee market doesn't work.

So maybe a feature should be implemented into wallets where fees are automatically calculated for you. Well, that's not here. And if it were to matter it should have been in all wallets for a couple of years now so that someone who opened their wallet for the first time in six months or a year to send thousands of dollars worth of BTC doesn't get a nail biting experience.

Bitcoin is getting shittier, not better. That's a problem.

[aztecminer]

price will rise before it rises higher.


can't you see it happening?

420 is just the beginning

so whats the target price for February ? 500 600

i think is stuck range 400 - 500 ... bitcoin is selling the halving .

close... i think 350 to 500 is their range they are stuck in .. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

We gotta take bitcoin prices, one step at a time.  We are in a pretty decent "paralyzed" price range at the moment, especially, if you consider where we were 1 year ago... or even if you consider where we were 3 years ago (now, 2 years ago is another story... hahahahahaha)

Anyhow, back on point>>>> If prices go above $467, then to me it seems pretty likely we are going to break past $500, and if we break past $500, then likely the next major resistance point would be between $550 and $650; however, I am not willing to suggest that we are out of the $400s, even if we were to break into the $500s in the next few weeks.

As far as the downside,  $350 does seem like a pretty strong support level, so at this time, it would take a pretty sizeable amount of FUD to convince people to sell below that price point..... Upper $300s is in striking distance, but even that doesn't seem so likely at the moment...... given our paralysis that currently is largely between $416 and $440 (hovering in the upper end at the moment, and cannot really complain about that - unless you are a Mr. Aztec type or a BJA type or some other whiner that is trying to find reasons to complain).  


Edit:  On a side note, even some of the bears seem a bit more cheerful lately with rising prices... so possibly, the solution to a lot of the various whining is to bring up the price past $555 in order that we can experience a kind of Kumbaya moment.

gimpcoin is paralyzed until either scaling is fixed or obama leaves office. u might could go up but u aint going back down below 300 .. the reason i say 350 cuz they need to feel comfortable. it doesnt matter how u try twist it, gimpcoin remains gimped. it is not going down below 300, and it is unlikely to go above 500. i think i mentioned before that anything above 400 was above profit for my cold storage. i'm in the green on exchange and in cold storage. when i say "paralyzed", i'm not really talking about the price of bitcoin.. i am talking about the LOSS OF POWER that bitcoin is enjoying right now. can't go up, can't go down .. fukd. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

Yeah, it is all good and fun, and you are correct, until you are not.

Yep.. you picked our current price range, and to suggest that it is permanent is an attempt to make FUD and illogical stupid ass assertions out of a price range that currently is in place.

It would be nice to get rid of you, once bitcoin breaks out of this price range, but you are likely just like BJA, and we are not going to have such fortune.  You are merely going to change your lame ass theory to fit the new circumstances and then shill with your new lame framework.... I guess, so long as you are still getting paid for coming up with goofy and out-of-touch wishful fantasies.

go below 300 or above 500... shrug.. until you do u still didn't .

bitcoin is paralyzed because if it goes below 300 i might buy more, and if you go above 500 i'm solid in profits ..

straight up.. #Paralyzed #GimpedCoin

very simple, go below 300 or above 500 and stay awhile. it doesnt matter to me which you do.. go for it.

[aztecminer]

Ok, Aztec, Quick question: Why does it matter who the current President is? How would this impact your analysis? Why is 'gimpcoin' in your opinion not rising in value until after that point.

LOOK at you... hahahahahahaha..

Acting as if Mr. Aztec actually has any meaningful thoughts or contribution that he could make.        


Edit:  or that he would actually answer the question.. .. reading his above response that avoids answering the question (regarding Why Obama specifically).

like your insulting people in the forum is a sign of intelligence ....

[AlexGR]

Why it is bad that genuine txs are stuck in the mempool? Because people tend to want txs to arrive confirmed and ready in a timely manner. It's sort of part of the point with Bitcoin.

What you somehow seem unable to grasp is that this shouldn't be about how much fee you can collect to miners. It's about making sure the network works.

How isn't it about fees?

Let me ask you this: If I take bitcoin-qt source, change a few lines of code regarding the suggested fees in order to hardwire it to pay a fixed 0.1$ fee (~100 satoshi / byte) for a 250byte tx, compile it and market it as an alternative client that works every single time, then what would you say? That now bitcoin works predictably and that the network is fine?

So maybe a feature should be implemented into wallets where fees are automatically calculated for you. Well, that's not here. And if it were to matter it should have been in all wallets for a couple of years now so that someone who opened their wallet for the first time in six months or a year to send thousands of dollars worth of BTC doesn't get a nail biting experience.

Bitcoin is getting shittier, not better. That's a problem.

Wallet software functionality is not related to bitcoin the network. One wallet could be ok in calculating fees, another might not.

[JayJuanGee]

price will rise before it rises higher.


can't you see it happening?

420 is just the beginning

so whats the target price for February ? 500 600

i think is stuck range 400 - 500 ... bitcoin is selling the halving .

close... i think 350 to 500 is their range they are stuck in .. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

We gotta take bitcoin prices, one step at a time.  We are in a pretty decent "paralyzed" price range at the moment, especially, if you consider where we were 1 year ago... or even if you consider where we were 3 years ago (now, 2 years ago is another story... hahahahahaha)

Anyhow, back on point>>>> If prices go above $467, then to me it seems pretty likely we are going to break past $500, and if we break past $500, then likely the next major resistance point would be between $550 and $650; however, I am not willing to suggest that we are out of the $400s, even if we were to break into the $500s in the next few weeks.

As far as the downside,  $350 does seem like a pretty strong support level, so at this time, it would take a pretty sizeable amount of FUD to convince people to sell below that price point..... Upper $300s is in striking distance, but even that doesn't seem so likely at the moment...... given our paralysis that currently is largely between $416 and $440 (hovering in the upper end at the moment, and cannot really complain about that - unless you are a Mr. Aztec type or a BJA type or some other whiner that is trying to find reasons to complain).  


Edit:  On a side note, even some of the bears seem a bit more cheerful lately with rising prices... so possibly, the solution to a lot of the various whining is to bring up the price past $555 in order that we can experience a kind of Kumbaya moment.

gimpcoin is paralyzed until either scaling is fixed or obama leaves office. u might could go up but u aint going back down below 300 .. the reason i say 350 cuz they need to feel comfortable. it doesnt matter how u try twist it, gimpcoin remains gimped. it is not going down below 300, and it is unlikely to go above 500. i think i mentioned before that anything above 400 was above profit for my cold storage. i'm in the green on exchange and in cold storage. when i say "paralyzed", i'm not really talking about the price of bitcoin.. i am talking about the LOSS OF POWER that bitcoin is enjoying right now. can't go up, can't go down .. fukd. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

Yeah, it is all good and fun, and you are correct, until you are not.

Yep.. you picked our current price range, and to suggest that it is permanent is an attempt to make FUD and illogical stupid ass assertions out of a price range that currently is in place.

It would be nice to get rid of you, once bitcoin breaks out of this price range, but you are likely just like BJA, and we are not going to have such fortune.  You are merely going to change your lame ass theory to fit the new circumstances and then shill with your new lame framework.... I guess, so long as you are still getting paid for coming up with goofy and out-of-touch wishful fantasies.

go below 300 or above 500... shrug.. until you do u still didn't .

bitcoin is paralyzed because if it goes below 300 i might buy more, and if you go above 500 i'm solid in profits ..

straight up.. #Paralyzed #GimpedCoin

very simple, go below 300 or above 500 and stay awhile. it doesnt matter to me which you do.. go for it.

You sound as squirmy as BJA... Did you guys get the same training?  Did you go to the same shill school?

At one moment you are asserting that we are stuck in a price range forever.  The second moment you are saying that forever doesn't really mean forever, because if prices go above $500, then you have a reason to brag.

So no matter what, you are the greatest... because you are winner...  whatever... You spend a considerable amount of time dissing bitcoin, but then supposedly investing at the same time... makes little to no sense, except that you are likely making things up.

[JayJuanGee]

Ok, Aztec, Quick question: Why does it matter who the current President is? How would this impact your analysis? Why is 'gimpcoin' in your opinion not rising in value until after that point.

LOOK at you... hahahahahahaha..

Acting as if Mr. Aztec actually has any meaningful thoughts or contribution that he could make.        


Edit:  or that he would actually answer the question.. .. reading his above response that avoids answering the question (regarding Why Obama specifically).

like your insulting people in the forum is a sign of intelligence ....

Who am I insulting?  Helrow?

 I am just describing your behavior.. You can take it how you like.  Do you ever engage in meaningful discussion that is genuine and an attempt at an acruate and honest prediction.... possibly 1/20 posts, maybe, giving you the benefit of the doubt. 

So in that regard, even though I may call you a dip shit a dumb shit and various other names, I am referring to your behavior more than anything, and not really asserting that you are really dumb.. even though sometimes it seems very likely... mostly, you are disingenuous.. which is not the same as dumb...

[bargainbin]

...
Let me ask you this: If I take bitcoin-qt source, change a few lines of code regarding the suggested fees in order to hardwire it to pay a fixed 0.1$ fee (~100 satoshi / byte) for a 250byte tx, compile it and market it as an alternative client that works every single time, then what would you say? That now bitcoin works predictably and that the network is fine?
...

Let me cut in. Yes, soon you & hdbuck/brg444/ice will be the only 2 people transacting on Bitcoin.
Caveat: this will make your bitcoins worth less, as in "virtually nothing, because no one uses Bitcoin because useless.
So may not be the utopia you've been dreaming about.

[PoolMinor]

OK, back on topic.






THis post very helpful, not hurtful.

[hdbuck]

...
Let me ask you this: If I take bitcoin-qt source, change a few lines of code regarding the suggested fees in order to hardwire it to pay a fixed 0.1$ fee (~100 satoshi / byte) for a 250byte tx, compile it and market it as an alternative client that works every single time, then what would you say? That now bitcoin works predictably and that the network is fine?
...

Let me cut in. Yes, soon you & hdbuck/brg444/ice will be the only 2 people transacting on Bitcoin.
Caveat: this will make your bitcoins worth less, as in "virtually nothing, because no one uses Bitcoin because useless.
So may not be the utopia you've been dreaming about.

aww how about you spend some of that govy time to shill over the ethereum forums?

or is it that obahamas knows it is a scam already?


ps: dont they even teach you how to count in langley or whatever the moist place you wank with pedo porn?

[bargainbin]

^^And how about you choke on a bag of dicks, hmm?
How would that be?

[aztecminer]

price will rise before it rises higher.


can't you see it happening?

420 is just the beginning

so whats the target price for February ? 500 600

i think is stuck range 400 - 500 ... bitcoin is selling the halving .

close... i think 350 to 500 is their range they are stuck in .. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

We gotta take bitcoin prices, one step at a time.  We are in a pretty decent "paralyzed" price range at the moment, especially, if you consider where we were 1 year ago... or even if you consider where we were 3 years ago (now, 2 years ago is another story... hahahahahaha)

Anyhow, back on point>>>> If prices go above $467, then to me it seems pretty likely we are going to break past $500, and if we break past $500, then likely the next major resistance point would be between $550 and $650; however, I am not willing to suggest that we are out of the $400s, even if we were to break into the $500s in the next few weeks.

As far as the downside,  $350 does seem like a pretty strong support level, so at this time, it would take a pretty sizeable amount of FUD to convince people to sell below that price point..... Upper $300s is in striking distance, but even that doesn't seem so likely at the moment...... given our paralysis that currently is largely between $416 and $440 (hovering in the upper end at the moment, and cannot really complain about that - unless you are a Mr. Aztec type or a BJA type or some other whiner that is trying to find reasons to complain).  


Edit:  On a side note, even some of the bears seem a bit more cheerful lately with rising prices... so possibly, the solution to a lot of the various whining is to bring up the price past $555 in order that we can experience a kind of Kumbaya moment.

gimpcoin is paralyzed until either scaling is fixed or obama leaves office. u might could go up but u aint going back down below 300 .. the reason i say 350 cuz they need to feel comfortable. it doesnt matter how u try twist it, gimpcoin remains gimped. it is not going down below 300, and it is unlikely to go above 500. i think i mentioned before that anything above 400 was above profit for my cold storage. i'm in the green on exchange and in cold storage. when i say "paralyzed", i'm not really talking about the price of bitcoin.. i am talking about the LOSS OF POWER that bitcoin is enjoying right now. can't go up, can't go down .. fukd. #paralyzed #GimpCoin

Yeah, it is all good and fun, and you are correct, until you are not.

Yep.. you picked our current price range, and to suggest that it is permanent is an attempt to make FUD and illogical stupid ass assertions out of a price range that currently is in place.

It would be nice to get rid of you, once bitcoin breaks out of this price range, but you are likely just like BJA, and we are not going to have such fortune.  You are merely going to change your lame ass theory to fit the new circumstances and then shill with your new lame framework.... I guess, so long as you are still getting paid for coming up with goofy and out-of-touch wishful fantasies.

go below 300 or above 500... shrug.. until you do u still didn't .

bitcoin is paralyzed because if it goes below 300 i might buy more, and if you go above 500 i'm solid in profits ..

straight up.. #Paralyzed #GimpedCoin

very simple, go below 300 or above 500 and stay awhile. it doesnt matter to me which you do.. go for it.

You sound as squirmy as BJA... Did you guys get the same training?  Did you go to the same shill school?

At one moment you are asserting that we are stuck in a price range forever.  The second moment you are saying that forever doesn't really mean forever, because if prices go above $500, then you have a reason to brag.

So no matter what, you are the greatest... because you are winner...  whatever... You spend a considerable amount of time dissing bitcoin, but then supposedly investing at the same time... makes little to no sense, except that you are likely making things up.

i said until blocks is fixed or obama leaves office. .. the reason i bought into bitcoin was to cover my ass... i do own some bitcoins, but i strongly feel bitcoin is way too cute... my mind was changed at some point .

[bitebits]

Why fores users onto other competitive systems already this year Alts have grown 6% at the expense of Bitcoin.

Can you show me the transactions these other competitive systems are doing?

I actually tried a block explorer with major altcoins, and their blocks are ghost-towns.

Last 5 blocks (tx count):

litecoin
3-1-1-7-9

dash
3-11-7-9-1

monero
2-1-1-1-1

eth
0-2-0-7-0

btc:
702-1420-2196-2384-2764

Not to prove a point, but you are aware that they all have a different block time right? So you should at least multiply Litecoin's transactions x4 and Monero's transactions x10 (soon x5) for a fair comparison (no clue about the others mentioned).