Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[NamelessOne]

50 BTC are 50 BTC, maybe you can easily say "only" about that amount, but it's certainly more than I'd want to lose. Not to forget what it might be worth in a year or 2

 you seem to be willing to let go of it entirely

Don't get me wrong. 50BTC is certainly more than I intend to lose. The reason I said "only" is that I'm glad the bulk of my coins are elsewhere.

What bugs me is the fact that I'll have to get a passport or provincial age-of-majority card (at the age of 65) just to get back what is mine. This is almost as ridiculous as being IDed at the Skydome to buy a beer when I was 60 years old. At that time I simply went to a different kiosk. This requires a lot more fuss and expense.

When MtGox announced back in May, following the Dwolla and Wells Fargo seizures and Liberty Reserve bust, that they were requiring identification for fiat transfers, they specifically stated that Bitcoin transfers were unaffected so I left my coins there.

Now it seems that they were lying all along. Shame, shame, shame.

I was about to link you the Ontario Photo ID card, but that is the 'age-of-majority' card anyway. That is what I would be getting under this situation. Yes it would be a hassle, but those 50btc have the potential to eventually be worth over anything from $50,000 - $500,000 - $5,000,000 depending on who you are listening to, haha. 

http://www.ontario.ca/government/ontario-photo-card

[1714756190]

1714756190

[1714756190]

1714756190

[adamstgBit]

Hi folks,

A question about Mt. Gox withdrawals.

I can't find the info on their website now, but I thought verification was only necessary to withdraw cash, not bitcoins.

Mt. Gox is telling me that, in order to withdraw bitcoins,  I need to get my non-English language documents translated and notarized and mailed to Japan.

Does that fir with your understanding of their policy?

Thanks.

OMG What a nightmare. I also thought that my anonymous MtGox account allowed non-verified Bitcoin withdrawals. I've never deposited or withdrawn fiat currency to or from this account and had no intention to do so. I used it for daytrading only.

After reading your post, I got worried that they were lying (once again) and immediately attempted to withdraw my remaining coins to a paper wallet.

Now they won't return my coins without identification and proof of residency. This is totally unacceptable. I feel like they are stealing from me.

I don't drive an automobile or use credit cards (just say no) so I don't have the usual photo ID. I'd rather not change my old red and white non-photo Ontario health card for a photo one because the new ones require renewal every few years. I don't generally carry ID and have no plans to start doing so. I live in a (sort of) free country. Do I have to get a passport just to get my money back?

Luckily there are only about 50 BTC in this account but I still feel like I'm being held for ransom. I also feel like I'm being treated like an American.

Further shame on you MtGox.

Apply for a Wirtland ID? Will they accept that?

that would be to funny.

this is new? , i've used an unregistered MtGox account to redeem private key and such.

Any idea why they are doing this?

there doesn't seem to be any official announcement about this.

[TheKoziTwo]

Further shame on you MtGox.

The choice is simple. Either mtgox does this, or they can expect a "dotcom style" type of raid with extermination of their entire business, possible extradition to the US on very serious charges, terror/cp shaming in media etc. Technically, they still risk this, but at least they play it safer than those who don't (e.g liberty reserve).

Is it right? No. Want to blame someone? Blame the US. Or better yet: blame the pathetic countries who surrender all their rights to satisfy US.

[adamstgBit]

Further shame on you MtGox.

The choice is simple. Either mtgox does this, or they can expect a "dotcom style" type of raid with extermination of their entire business, possible extradition to the US on very serious charges, terror/cp shaming in media etc. Technically, they still risk this, but at least they play it safer than those who don't (e.g liberty reserve).

Is it right? No. Want to blame someone? Blame the US. Or better yet: blame the pathetic countries who surrender all their rights to satisfy US.

this is just speculation right?

would be nice if MtGox said something on the matter...

[TheKoziTwo]

It's not speculation which the liberty reserve case clearly shows. If you don't verify customers using "imaginary internet money" you are a target of the US. The reason is that users could be from the US using a VPN etc to access your service, if you don't verify customers you have no way of ensuring that. So you MUST, with no exception, verify all customers. All business must do this, and those who don't will risk ending up like liberty reserve.

edit: and if you don't deny all US customers you will also have to become licensed in the US. If you are fully licensed in the US (is mtgox?) you may be able to skip the legitimation requirement in a few cases, but I'm not sure about that.

[adamstgBit]

It's not speculation which the liberty reserve case clearly shows. If you don't verify customers using "imaginary internet money" you are a target of the US. The reason is that users could be from the US using a VPN etc to access your service, if you don't verify customers you have no way of ensuring that. So you MUST, with no exception, verify all customers. All business must do this, and those who don't will risk ending up like liberty reserve.

liberty reserve was handling real life money

BTC is imaginary internet money

From what i heard the US was only interested in tracking USD going in and out of exchanges not BTC

[rampantparanoia]

From what i heard the US was only interested in tracking USD going in and out of exchanges not BTC

I bet they're tracking blockchain transactions as we peruse through these boards.

[Professor James Moriarty]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

[TheKoziTwo]

It's not speculation which the liberty reserve case clearly shows. If you don't verify customers using "imaginary internet money" you are a target of the US. The reason is that users could be from the US using a VPN etc to access your service, if you don't verify customers you have no way of ensuring that. So you MUST, with no exception, verify all customers. All business must do this, and those who don't will risk ending up like liberty reserve.

liberty reserve was handling real life money

BTC is imaginary internet money

From what i heard the US was only interested in tracking USD going in and out of exchanges not BTC

Actually no. From my understanding, LRUSD was an "imaginary internet currency" and not backed by actual USD. Yes, exchangers would trade it for USD, but there was no actual reserve guarantee. That is what makes this case so interesting. Liberty Reserve was basically a centralized version of bitcoin.

[adamstgBit]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

now you need to be registered to withdraw BTC.
( there appears to be no official word about this )

[Rampion]

It's not speculation which the liberty reserve case clearly shows. If you don't verify customers using "imaginary internet money" you are a target of the US. The reason is that users could be from the US using a VPN etc to access your service, if you don't verify customers you have no way of ensuring that. So you MUST, with no exception, verify all customers. All business must do this, and those who don't will risk ending up like liberty reserve.

liberty reserve was handling real life money

BTC is imaginary internet money

From what i heard the US was only interested in tracking USD going in and out of exchanges not BTC

Actually no. From my understanding, LRUSD was an "imaginary internet currency" and not backed by actual USD. Yes, exchangers would trade it for USD, but there was no actual reserve guarantee. That is what makes this case so interesting. Liberty Reserve was basically a centralized version of bitcoin.

Exactly.

[TheKoziTwo]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

International wire is delayed by months. SEPA transfers less than certain amounts occurs within a few weeks usually.

[crazy_rabbit]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

now you need to be registered to withdraw BTC.
( there appears to be no official word about this )

Is there proof of this, or is this just rumour mill nonesense, FUD?

[crazy_rabbit]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

International wire is delayed by months. SEPA transfers less than certain amounts occurs within a few weeks usually.

It's hard not to believe they just don't have the money. I'd trust them more if they didn't refuse to give any updates.

[adamstgBit]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

now you need to be registered to withdraw BTC.
( there appears to be no official word about this )

Is there proof of this, or is this just rumour mill nonesense, FUD?

just FUD at this point...

but it appears to be true, i believe it, but i really would like to hear MtGox say SOMETHING about it.

[TheKoziTwo]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

now you need to be registered to withdraw BTC.
( there appears to be no official word about this )

Is there proof of this, or is this just rumour mill nonesense, FUD?

If you login with Tor, VPN etc you have always been required to verify your account, even for BTC withdraws. This is nothing new. If, however, you are required to verify your account when you only used your own IP, then this is new, but not surprising.

[adamstgBit]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

International wire is delayed by months. SEPA transfers less than certain amounts occurs within a few weeks usually.

It's hard not to believe they just don't have the money. I'd trust them more if they didn't refuse to give any updates.

It could be that they don't have the Bitcoins either, and they now required registration to withdraw btc in hopes that this will force people to keep their bitcoins their so they can live to trade another day.

if they do not provide proof that they were FORCED into doing this, this is my conclusion.

quickly now! send wtv papers you need to and GTFO of gox!

[bootytoots]

 So people are still not able to withdraw from mtgox or is just it takes too long time to withdraw from them? Which one is  it?

now you need to be registered to withdraw BTC.
( there appears to be no official word about this )

Is there proof of this, or is this just rumour mill nonesense, FUD?

Well, it's true in my case. Here's the relevant excerpt from the reply I got from Mt. Gox's support desk, in response to whether I need to be verified to withdraw bitcoins from my account:

Your account must be verified to perform any withdrawal transactions.

If you would like to continue with the verification process, please provide us the notarised copy sealed with an apostille for the following documents (Please do not forget to provide your account number or username).

[ElectricMucus]

You people had more than enough time to leave Gox. Just admit that you are gambling on a positive resolve of the situation.

[TheKoziTwo]

You people had more than enough time to leave Gox. Just admit that you are gambling on a positive resolve of the situation.

Actually, those leaving money in mtgox are not just gambling, they are part of the solution. If a bank run is prevented and trading continues mtgox will keep making profit and can eventually become solvent again (assuming they are currently fractional reserve) even if they are never paid their debt (millions of dollars: frozen, coinbase..).