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Question: When $60K? (EST time zone)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25182109 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (157 posts by 13 users deleted.)
nutildah
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November 14, 2019, 09:00:22 AM
Merited by mindrust (3), JayJuanGee (1)

Since you edited out my addressing of this point, let me re-insert it for you:

A penalty transaction has distinct characteristics:

Quote
LN channel = multisig UTXO.

To change channel balance write new tx spending the UTXO. Both sign but dont broadcast.

They all:

- are V0_P2WPKH type transactions
- are roughly the same size of 237-238 B, 121 vB, 483-484 WU
- use SegWit addresses

There is a way to filter through transaction data based on this criteria.

Still absofuckinglutely irrelevant. Congratulations.

How is filtering transaction data irrelevant to the identification of penalty claims?

In case you missed it, another possibility is that penalty txs were never issued. For the THIRD FUCKING TIME, dickwad.

Quote
If his counterparties were on the beneficial side of a stale closing tx, what is their incentive to issue a penalty? They stand to win more through just letting the mistaken stale tx broadcasts lie as is. Seems we need to at least consider that possibility before closing the case. As at least one scenario.

So far none of the 400 nodes connected to him reported receiving any funds.

Hmm. None of the 400 unjustly-enriched parties reported unjust enrichment. Whodathunkit?

Or, perhaps its because they never received jack shit. Not ONE in 400 nodes is honest enough to report receiving more funds than they should have? Just think about it for a moment before responding.

Do you deny that it is possible?

It is possible that not one of 400 nodes would have received "unjustified enrichment" without reporting it, but it is extremely unlikely and goes against common sense.

You again edited out the link I provided to a discussion on the LN GitHub about the issue which as far as I can tell is comprised of the first and foremost members of the relevant COMMUNITY:

https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/2468

A couple of the "experts" indirectly referenced in the Bitcoinist article have been posting in that GitHub thread. That's why its not hearsay.

Your third link was a news blurb containing allegations, totally devoid of links to evidence. It was -- again definitively -- hearsay.

First of all, this isn't a courtroom. Second, the title of the article is "4 BITCOIN ‘LOSS’ ON LIGHTNING NETWORK IS FUD, SAYS COMMUNITY" --- the whole premise of the article is based on second-hand information. Third, the article does contain links to evidence, which contain links to more evidence.

- Bitcoinist article contains this paragraph:

Quote
A Twitter thread looking into the circumstances behind the loss and how it could be prevented in future, suggested that LN had been working as intended. The victim would have been fine if he had waited, but impatience caused him to “crash through multiple safety barriers,” as he was deemed “in over his head.”

- The referenced Twitter thread says this:

Quote
Yesterday there was a post on /r/Bitcoin about him "losing" 4 BTC on LN. https://reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/dlvokv/how_i_lost_4_btc_on_lightning_network/
There's a reason why limits were implemented and why everyone is saying you should be careful when playing around with LN.
That being said: this guy was being an idiot.

- The referenced Reddit thread says this:

Quote
I still have some hope... @guggero from http://lightningcommunity.slack.com may help me... I'm just stuck in some kind of hypnotic state...

@guggero (LN developer) says this in the GitHub issue thread:

Quote
I'm going to write a script that goes through all your 400 channels and looks at the TX outputs if there is still something to be claimed. This should also give us a final account of how much was actually lost because of justice transactions (if any).

So if you are willing to DYOR you can see that nothing is unsubstantiated, and while the issue may not technically be "FUD", it sounds like the guy didn't actually lose any coins at all, in spite of what appears to be his best attempts to do so.

OK I'm making a concession that he may have lost a maximum of 0.1 BTC (though its still more likely he lost nothing), but it still seems like it was all to make a bullshit point about "the dangers of Lightning." Making a concession is hardly "moving the goalposts."

I was originally stressing that his claims of losing 4 BTC were bullshit.

No, you jumped down my throat for merely asking to see some actual evidence supporting the claim that the entire incident was not made up from whole cloth. From 'case closed, he made the whole thing up' to 'I think he's exaggerating' is the motherfuckin canonical example of moving the goalposts.

Stop being such a baby. If suggesting you verify information for yourself is the same thing as "jumping down your throat" then you're not cut out to talk on an internet forum and should probably go join a sewing circle. He still may have put himself in this situation on purpose, though now I believe he earnestly just made a major fuckup -- for whatever reason is beyond me. Its a one-of-a-kind issue though so its good for LN devs to iron this sort of thing out now rather than later.

Admitting to changing my opinion on something after learning more about it is only "moving the goalposts" if you come from the viewpoint that you are trying to score a goal.

Go fuck yourself. You're the one trying to twist things around to make it appear that you said something other than that which you did.

No, I didn't. I admitted that I changed my stance from "he's a liar" to "he may have accidentally fucked up." I still maintain that nowhere near 4 BTC was lost. Sounds like he lost nothing.
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Arriemoller
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November 14, 2019, 09:22:31 AM

Observing $8,775



Just giggled a bit out loud in a coffee shop (not the dutch kind).
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November 14, 2019, 11:01:33 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2019, 11:13:44 AM by HI-TEC99

But the mesh chairs aren't going to be as comfortable as finding a well-designed memory foam chair (if they even exist).

Says the person who -- in the very same sentence -- admits he's never sat in one.

<whatevs>

I'm sitting comfortably in the chair you derided, while you're whinging about your chair's lumbar support pain. Observers can draw their own conclusions.

Are you sure it's safe? I threw some memory foam away after reading about the dodgy chemicals in it.

https://hullopillow.com/that-memory-foam-smell/

Quote
... there are various reports and studies which indicate that memory foam may be somewhat toxic. Reports include carcinogenic chemicals and formaldehyde gas. To manufacture memory foam, chemicals are added to polyurethane to make it more dense and viscous at the same time. Additional chemicals are required to make the polyurethane flame retardant. One of these, Pentabde (of the polybrominated diphenyl ether (PBDE) family), was used until 2004. Pentabde is now known to be toxic to the liver, thyroid, and nervous system.(1) A study in 2000 specifically found mattress emissions to be toxic to the lungs of labratory mice.(2)
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November 14, 2019, 11:20:58 AM
Merited by BobLawblaw (2)

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November 14, 2019, 11:28:24 AM

MicG beat me to it, but I got back on Monday from a trip to find an envelope through my door...



Icygreen - you're a star.  Thank you!

I like that round one, the original community.  Cheesy

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Go! BTC Go!


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November 14, 2019, 02:01:14 PM
Merited by BobLawblaw (1)

Saw this video on LiveLeak while looking for anti-establishment, conspiracy porn today
and I had to turn into a gif so I could post it here.  I wouldn't say I dislike cats but I
try to avoid them (and their owners) because I'm allergic to cat dander but credit
where credit is due: some cats are awesome (as are some cat owners).



 full video here
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November 14, 2019, 02:26:17 PM

most cats are awesome

ftfy Smiley
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November 14, 2019, 02:31:29 PM

Bitcoin preparing for battle.

Edit: I dont know why my gif wont play!

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November 14, 2019, 02:55:26 PM



WTF!
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November 14, 2019, 03:17:00 PM

Saw this video on LiveLeak while looking for anti-establishment, conspiracy porn today
and I had to turn into a gif so I could post it here.  I wouldn't say I dislike cats but I
try to avoid them (and their owners) because I'm allergic to cat dander but credit
where credit is due: some cats are awesome (as are some cat owners).



 full video here


Nice save  Grin
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November 14, 2019, 03:38:57 PM

The daily course of BTC charts around your throat  Grin Grin Grin

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November 14, 2019, 03:41:31 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (5), AlcoHoDL (2), jojo69 (1), makrospex (1), plasticAiredale (1)

Fantasy on a fucker who overtook me

Every time you blare past someone in your Overfinch, ask yourself how many bitcoins you have.
Perhaps you made a few million quid on the London property market.
So you did your children well putting them through your old school and university.
The cellars of your mock Georgian mansion outside Chiddingfold are fully stocked with Latour and vintage Perrier Jouet.
Every time, though, you wonder why so many foreigners are rioting all over the place, ask yourself how many bitcoins you have.
If the property markets collapse, Ogilvy said you'll be fine because he opened you accounts in all those islandy places.
Now is not the time to worry about the plebs breaking the natural order of things, is it? Not here anyway, surely?

Did Jolyon really get arrested by those idiots just for some pictures of little girls?
It's a crying shame when men can't do what they've always done in their own homes.
Doubtless the lawyers will sort it all out but it'll cost him a pretty penny hahaha.
Never forget that time at school when he got rusticated for those little tarts from the village. Top bloke.
There's always some civil servant with an axe to grind. Don't they know who we are?

Kashoggi was a funny chap at school too, related to that dead writer chap I heard, always 'doing business for the boys'.
It's all getting a bit much nowadays, people should have more respect for their elders and frankly betters.
London really is a cesspit now too. Nothing but foreigners and demonstrations about this and that rubbish. It's like bloody Syria.
Last time I went up and stayed at the club the traffic was so bad I had to stay another night. Still, Mandy was free, so...

Have you ever asked yourself how many bitcoins you have? Have you ever wondered if owning a few might excuse you from the slip-ups of the past?
It won't. It might help you hide for a while.
Mostly people like you will just be shunned left, right and centre, but if there is evidence, there will be trials.
Sleep well at night anyway.
Everything you knew is changing faster than you realise.
Life's going to go blaring past you. Ask yourself how many bitcoins will you need.
Fiat money's falling, fucker.

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November 14, 2019, 03:47:48 PM
Merited by kaicrypzen (1)

Good news

Quote
Anonymous fund plans to invest and donate $75M in bitcoin to startups working on enhancing privacy

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/47127/anonymous-fund-plans-to-invest-and-donate-75m-in-bitcoin-to-startups-working-on-enhancing-privacy?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=rss
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November 14, 2019, 04:15:40 PM

MicG beat me to it, but I got back on Monday from a trip to find an envelope through my door...



Icygreen - you're a star.  Thank you!

I like that round one, the original community.  Cheesy



Looks like it was a good idea to support Icy! I also received the big round one! Now the hard part : only the smallers fit my hat, so deciding which one should go on what is difficult!  Cheesy
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November 14, 2019, 05:35:32 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2019, 06:13:39 PM by jojo69

paypal jumps the shark, places itself in opposition to the natural order of things

specific page is SFW, but your IT guy might raise an eyebrow at the domain

https://www.pornhub.com/blog/9122
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November 14, 2019, 05:42:51 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Updated Bakkt..

Quote
Daily summary of Wednesday's Bakkt Bitcoin Monthly Futures:

📉 Traded contracts: 601 ($5,270,770)
📅 Day before: 1456 (-59%)
🚀 All time high: 1756 (11/8/2019)

Follow
@BakktBot
 for realtime updates | Tip sats https://tippin.me/@BakktBot

Source: https://twitter.com/BakktBot/status/1194874928836882432
Waiting for a good movement in their prices.
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November 14, 2019, 06:36:27 PM

There must be some way out of here
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nothing to see here


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November 14, 2019, 06:52:29 PM

There must be some way out of here

Inside...  Wink
"way" == zen
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November 14, 2019, 06:56:33 PM

There must be some way out of here

Inside...  Wink
"way" == zen
There's a time for zen.
And there's a time for dildos.
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November 14, 2019, 07:04:58 PM
Merited by Dabs (1)

Quote
In view of the uncertain and unsafe traffic conditions for travelling to [...], we are suspending classes on the Main Campus for the rest of the semester and making teaching and learning accessible online. This will enable students to stay away from campus, and even leave Hong Kong should they wish, while at the same time completing their courses and assessments.

Individual instructors will upload to Moodle detailed arrangements for course delivery and assessment. Examinations will be moved online or replaced by alternative forms of assessment. Details will be circulated in the next few days.

For help with travel arrangements out of Hong Kong, non-local students are advised to contact either the China Affairs Office or the International Affairs Office.

Senior Management Team
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