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JorgeStolfi
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February 05, 2014, 12:11:58 PM |
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So... at the present time, is there ANY market that can be regarded as a credible source for the market price of Bitcoins, free of price manipulation by bots, falsified trading figures, or failure to honor transactions by actually paying the customer?
What IS the real price of Bitcoin nowadays?
It is a community consensus that China does not exist, so it would be Bitstamp, I guess. If you want to be a pariah in the community, just say "Huobi and/or OKCoin" and suggest that the other exchanges just follow them. In any case, there is no such thing as "a price free of manipulation" for Bitcoin. Bitcoins pay no dividends, and there are no assets that could be auctioned to refund the holders if the concept collapsed; so there is no way to compute a "real value". The market price - what *you* can buy and sell it for - is the only price there is. It does not matter whether the other party in your transactions is a penguin shepherd in Mongolia or a robot programmed by Skynet. I suppose that one should exclude Mt.GOX; from what I read, one cannot actually buy or sell bitcoins there, only donate coins and cash to the owners. That said, I too feel that the market price at the price-setting exchange (whichever it is) is "manipulated", even though I cannot define yet what the word means. |
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It is a common myth that Bitcoin is ruled by a majority of miners. This is not true. Bitcoin miners "vote" on the ordering of transactions, but that's all they do. They can't vote to change the network rules.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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delphic
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February 05, 2014, 02:00:06 PM |
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So... at the present time, is there ANY market that can be regarded as a credible source for the market price of Bitcoins, free of price manipulation by bots, falsified trading figures, or failure to honor transactions by actually paying the customer?
What IS the real price of Bitcoin nowadays?
It is a community consensus that China does not exist, so it would be Bitstamp, I guess. If you want to be a pariah in the community, just say "Huobi and/or OKCoin" and suggest that the other exchanges just follow them. In any case, there is no such thing as "a price free of manipulation" for Bitcoin. Bitcoins pay no dividends, and there are no assets that could be auctioned to refund the holders if the concept collapsed; so there is no way to compute a "real value". The market price - what *you* can buy and sell it for - is the only price there is. It does not matter whether the other party in your transactions is a penguin shepherd in Mongolia or a robot programmed by Skynet. I suppose that one should exclude Mt.GOX; from what I read, one cannot actually buy or sell bitcoins there, only donate coins and cash to the owners. That said, I too feel that the market price at the price-setting exchange (whichever it is) is "manipulated", even though I cannot define yet what the word means. Thanks for all the replies. My question "What IS the real price of Bitcoin nowadays?" was intended to be (mostly) rhetorical. I realise that iprice is set by the 'market' and not against any tangible assets, expectation of a dividend, etc. What I am looking for is the consensus, if any, about which exchanges are trustworthy, or at least, the least untrustworthy. It seems to be BTCE and Bitstamp at present. |
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nanobrain
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Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Dumb broad
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February 05, 2014, 02:00:54 PM |
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Wow...BTC volume flat, alts too and this thread...  ...it's just Jorge theorising and postulating |
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empowering
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Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
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February 05, 2014, 02:09:02 PM |
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Whilst bigger exchanges in NY and the like would be good for Bitcoin, it will also open the door on a bigger scale to this... Attack of the HFT bots (2011 eeek!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUFM1kRdHKII would forward to half way through!! edit - why can I not embedd this bloody youtube vid? have I gone mad(der)? |
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Vigil
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February 05, 2014, 02:28:57 PM |
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Gox looks not far off dipping under 900 - any look at that ruler straight slope on a 1hour wisdom watch says 48 hours.
I am not predicting this, but I am concerned at the psychological blow if we see the 800s on Gox again.
I really thought as January ended, with all the bullish news it was time to get back in and I went full BTC - I think Gox is now dragging what should have been a push up into a slide down.
What I can get out of Gox, I am now converting partially into fiat again - I smell hungry bears.
No. Gox has been holding-up what would otherwise have been a slide down. |
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jl2012
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February 05, 2014, 02:45:15 PM |
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Bitstamp has the best liquidity of all exchanges. Its where most people actually enter and exit the ecosystem. If you have or want cash in a bank account its most likely going to be based on that price. Bitstamp is also a very important hub for nearly all of bitcoin's commercial integration and services. The trendy thing to do right now is to integrate your service with bit stamp to perform all btc to fiat conversions.
By the same note I also consider bitstamp to be btcs single point of failure (centralization). Any FUD involving bitstamp would be really bad - much worse than even huobi/china. This is probably not how satoshi envisioned bitcoin working.
Just 1 year ago: MtGox has the best liquidity of all exchanges. Its where most people actually enter and exit the ecosystem. If you have or want cash in a bank account its most likely going to be based on that price. MtGox is also a very important hub for nearly all of bitcoin's commercial integration and services. The trendy thing to do right now is to integrate your service with bit stamp to perform all btc to fiat conversions.
By the same note I also consider MtGox to be btcs single point of failure (centralization). Any FUD involving MtGox would be really bad - much worse than even huobi/china. This is probably not how satoshi envisioned bitcoin working. So what? Gox is now dead and the price is increased by 40x. |
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JorgeStolfi
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February 05, 2014, 03:06:37 PM |
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Wow...BTC volume flat, alts too and this thread... ...it's just Jorge theorising and postulating  This thread too is being manipulated, of course. And most of the posts here are copied over from the Chinese bitcoin forum by arbitrage trolls; so that the level of silliness and pontification ends up being the same on both sides.  |
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deeplink
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February 05, 2014, 03:28:14 PM |
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Notice the 903/905 sells? Same thing happened yesterday.  |
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podyx
Legendary
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Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035
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February 05, 2014, 03:32:37 PM |
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not sure if i should buy ltc and ppc now or wait for a drop
what should i do?
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deeplink
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February 05, 2014, 03:40:25 PM |
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Seriously? Sell orders going through at 900 again while there is depth up until 915?  Edit: it's obviously not a bug on Clark Moody cause Stamp shows them as well  |
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fonzie
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February 05, 2014, 03:48:53 PM |
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600watt
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Merit: 2106
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February 05, 2014, 03:50:54 PM |
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KeyserSoze
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February 05, 2014, 04:07:20 PM |
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This thread too is being manipulated, of course. And most of the posts here are copied over from the Chinese bitcoin forum by arbitrage trolls; so that the level of silliness and pontification ends up being the same on both sides. There are definitely bots inflating the post volume as well. I wonder what the ACTUAL post amount is, and whether this thread is over-valued. |
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donut
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February 05, 2014, 04:08:15 PM |
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I think we have an ally in the NY gov't. Too good to be true? |
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dgarcia
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February 05, 2014, 04:27:24 PM |
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And another one:  |
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ShroomsKit
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February 05, 2014, 04:58:44 PM |
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I don't understand why all these people just don't get it over with and mass dump already? What are they waiting for? They won't let the price go up and also no amount of good news is enough to make it rise either. Everyone is waiting to panic sell. Just do it already. Then we can move on. In whatever way.
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farfiman
Legendary
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Activity: 1449
Merit: 1001
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February 05, 2014, 05:01:33 PM |
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I don't understand why all these people just don't get it over with and mass dump already? What are they waiting for? They won't let the price go up and also no amount of good news is enough to make it rise either. Everyone is waiting to panic sell. Just do it already. Then we can move on. In whatever way.
Did you ever see the Gnu herds in africa before they cross the river? Nobody wants to be 1st.... the crocs are waiting... |
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Nemo1024
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Activity: 1680
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February 05, 2014, 05:07:44 PM |
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I don't understand why all these people just don't get it over with and mass dump already? What are they waiting for? They won't let the price go up and also no amount of good news is enough to make it rise either. Everyone is waiting to panic sell. Just do it already. Then we can move on. In whatever way.
Did you ever see the Gnu herds in africa before they cross the river? Nobody wants to be 1st.... the crocs are waiting... That is the best analogy for the market behaviour now! |
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farfiman
Legendary
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Activity: 1449
Merit: 1001
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February 05, 2014, 05:08:32 PM |
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I don't understand why all these people just don't get it over with and mass dump already? What are they waiting for? They won't let the price go up and also no amount of good news is enough to make it rise either. Everyone is waiting to panic sell. Just do it already. Then we can move on. In whatever way.
Did you ever see the Gnu herds in africa before they cross the river? Nobody wants to be 1st.... the crocs are waiting... That is the best analogy for the market behaviour now! here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oynkaa1GFm4 |
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