Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Nicholas-Carraway]

Hi All,

I've enjoyed the forum for the last month or so since I started buying BTC.  Just wanted to join in hopes ShroomsKit would put me on ignore.  Cheers!

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[dgarcia]

Just wanted to join in hopes ShroomsKit would put me on ignore.  Cheers!

Most probably this had just happened. 

[windjc]

Hi All,

I've enjoyed the forum for the last month or so since I started buying BTC.  Just wanted to join in hopes ShroomsKit would put me on ignore.  Cheers!

Welcome.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[delphic]

So... at the present time, is there ANY market that can be regarded as a credible source for the market price of Bitcoins, free of price manipulation by bots, falsified trading figures, or failure to honor transactions by actually paying the customer?

What IS the real price of Bitcoin nowadays?

[solex]

So... at the present time, is there ANY market that can be regarded as a credible source for the market price of Bitcoins, free of price manipulation by bots, falsified trading figures, or failure to honor transactions by actually paying the customer?

What IS the real price of Bitcoin nowadays?

average of bitstamp and btce is as close as anyone could get. $801 at the time of this post.

[F-bernanke]

average of bitstamp and btce is as close as anyone could get. $801 at the time of this post.

+1,

If you want a quick price to go by I would say the bitstamp price.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[kurious]

Hi All,

I've enjoyed the forum for the last month or so since I started buying BTC.  Just wanted to join in hopes ShroomsKit would put me on ignore.  Cheers!

Don't worry, he'll spot you - by now he probably only sees chart buddy and two other posters when he logs in.

[kurious]

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?

Reputation (lol), contacts/customers and a platform that has been mostly proven and is up-and-running.

There may be buyers for their physical assets including computer hardware and software.  That may be worth a couple million US$ at most. However, no one will want to inherit their client accounts, since they are not assets but debts. I would guess that the sum of all account balances (coins and cash that they owe to their clients) is much more  than 100 million US$.  Do they have that much in their bank and wallet?

I have pennies in my account. If a credible operator took over, there would be tens of thousands in it. I am not alone by a long shot. We would be trading, generating commissions and fees. We only left because we had to. There is still a big demand for an exchange other than stamp that can handle big volume. it would be a tremendous opportunity for someone who could recapitalize Gox. Recapitalization will take only a few million. Gox could be a billion dollar company if the operator got his act together.

+1

Rover was bought by BMW with massive debts and they only wanted the Mini brand. VW bought Skoda, which was considered a joke at the time.  Gox is still the legacy 'headline exchange' that the media uses for the actual benchmark price when an ATH is hit.

It would be recoverable very quickly and the cash in need only be enough for sufficient liquidity and a guarantee of safe withdrawal.

I always traded there rather than Stamp until recently, even though Stamp was my first exchange.

In BTC things move so fast I think this is absolutely right - Gox would be back real fast.   Imagine if money stepped in, and promised secure withdrawals.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[TERA]

So... at the present time, is there ANY market that can be regarded as a credible source for the market price of Bitcoins, free of price manipulation by bots, falsified trading figures, or failure to honor transactions by actually paying the customer?

What IS the real price of Bitcoin nowadays?

The real price is the price that whales are trading 20,000coins at off exchange in private. If you have to use an exchange then it is bitstamp.

[kurious]

Gox looks not far off dipping under 900 - any look at that ruler straight slope on a 1hour wisdom watch says 48 hours.

I am not predicting this, but I am concerned at the psychological blow if we see the 800s on Gox again.

I really thought as January ended, with all the bullish news it was time to get back in and I went full BTC - I think Gox is now dragging what should have been a push up into a slide down.

What I can get out of Gox, I am now converting partially into fiat again - I smell hungry bears.

[Mythul]

Great new bullish news: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/02/04/bitbeat-2014-is-the-year-of-bitcoin-on-wall-street-silbert-says/

Guys just hodl your position. This will be a great year and at worst 1btc =$3000 in my opinion.

[TERA]

Bitstamp has the best liquidity of all exchanges. Its where most people actually enter and exit the ecosystem. If you  have or want cash in a bank account its most likely going to be based on that price. Bitstamp is also a very important hub for nearly all of bitcoin's commercial integration and services. The trendy thing to do right now is to integrate your service with bit stamp to perform all btc to fiat conversions.

By the same note I also consider bitstamp to be btcs single point of failure (centralization). Any FUD involving bitstamp would be really bad - much worse than even huobi/china. This is probably not how satoshi envisioned bitcoin working.

[BitThink]

Bitstamp has the best liquidity of all exchanges. Its where most people actually enter and exit the ecosystem. If you  have or want cash in a bank account its most likely going to be based on that price. Bitstamp is also a very important hub for nearly all of bitcoin's commercial integration and services. The trendy thing to do right now is to integrate your service with bit stamp to perform all btc to fiat conversions.

By the same note I also consider bitstamp to be btcs single point of failure (centralization). Any FUD involving bitstamp would be really bad - much worse than even huobi/china. This is probably not how satoshi envisioned bitcoin working.

Agree on the first half. For the second half, I think the failure is just on temporary price, not on BTC itself. Other exchanges will take its position quickly in case bitstamp collapses. As long as BTC system itself works, there's nothing to be worried for Satoshi.

[TERA]

Agreed. As this is the speculation forum, I am referring to prices.

[NewLiberty]

If an exchange's outstanding obligations (the sum of its client's account balances, plus pending bills etc.) are more than its assets (furniture, cash in bank, and coins in wallet), why would anyone want to buy it?

Reputation (lol), contacts/customers and a platform that has been mostly proven and is up-and-running.

There may be buyers for their physical assets including computer hardware and software.  That may be worth a couple million US$ at most. However, no one will want to inherit their client accounts, since they are not assets but debts. I would guess that the sum of all account balances (coins and cash that they owe to their clients) is much more  than 100 million US$.  Do they have that much in their bank and wallet?

I have pennies in my account. If a credible operator took over, there would be tens of thousands in it. I am not alone by a long shot. We would be trading, generating commissions and fees. We only left because we had to. There is still a big demand for an exchange other than stamp that can handle big volume. it would be a tremendous opportunity for someone who could recapitalize Gox. Recapitalization will take only a few million. Gox could be a billion dollar company if the operator got his act together.

+1

Rover was bought by BMW with massive debts and they only wanted the Mini brand. VW bought Skoda, which was considered a joke at the time.  Gox is still the legacy 'headline exchange' that the media uses for the actual benchmark price when an ATH is hit.

It would be recoverable very quickly and the cash in need only be enough for sufficient liquidity and a guarantee of safe withdrawal.

I always traded there rather than Stamp until recently, even though Stamp was my first exchange.

In BTC things move so fast I think this is absolutely right - Gox would be back real fast.   Imagine if money stepped in, and promised secure withdrawals.

Western Union should buy Gox.  It would give them both a future.
WU has all the registrations and certifications worldwide to deal with the existing structure.
From a business perspective it is an easy deal, but not likely to happen for social reasons.

[JorgeStolfi]

So... at the present time, is there ANY market that can be regarded as a credible source for the market price of Bitcoins, free of price manipulation by bots, falsified trading figures, or failure to honor transactions by actually paying the customer?

What IS the real price of Bitcoin nowadays?

It is a community consensus that China does not exist, so it would be Bitstamp, I guess.

If you want to be a pariah in the community, just say "Huobi and/or OKCoin" and suggest that the other exchanges just follow them.

In any case, there is no such thing as "a price free of manipulation" for Bitcoin.  Bitcoins pay no dividends, and there are no assets that could be auctioned to refund the holders if the concept collapsed; so there is no way to compute a "real value".

The market price - what *you* can buy and sell it for - is the only price there is.  It does not matter whether the other party in your transactions is a penguin shepherd in Mongolia or a robot programmed by Skynet.

I suppose that one should exclude Mt.GOX; from what I read, one cannot actually buy or sell bitcoins there, only donate coins and cash to the owners.

That said, I too feel that the market price at the price-setting exchange (whichever it is) is "manipulated", even though I cannot define yet what the word means.