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Question: When will BTC get back above $70K:
7/14 - 0 (0%)
7/21 - 1 (0.8%)
7/28 - 11 (9.1%)
8/4 - 16 (13.2%)
8/11 - 7 (5.8%)
8/18 - 6 (5%)
8/25 - 8 (6.6%)
After August - 72 (59.5%)
Total Voters: 121

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26484739 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
inca
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February 26, 2015, 09:37:13 AM

Yeah we are in one of those interesting moments where a big buy will force shorts to capitulate and push the price rapidly up into the 250's. Retail short sellers are all in. Long's watching Smiley
Grafzep
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February 26, 2015, 09:51:01 AM

So what is YOUR take on nations spending money that the unborn will have to repay?

That is terrible, of course.  But replacing a failing currency by a crypto that, if successlul, will make trillionaires of Satoshi & friends is even worse.  Where will those trillions come from?

And if the crypto fails, there will be no one to exchange it for euros at a fixed rate.  Again trillions will have changed hands, with no relation to work done.

Much like the suckered Brazilian tax-payers keeping your tenured butt in buttered smug.
Fatman3001
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February 26, 2015, 09:53:48 AM

What a fucking clown. Using bitcoin as a currency for a country:
https://twitter.com/jonmatonis/status/570609094438088705

Until now I believed that Jon Matonis was one of the few sensible and realist people in the bitcon scene (even though he is a bitcoin salesman).  But that is just too naive (or insincere).  Oh well...
e

[1]So what is YOUR take on nations spending money that the unborn will have to repay? [2] If that's not taxation w/o representation, then what is it? You think that's moral? [3]We fought a war against the strongest empire on earth to stop that kind of tyranny.

Are you gonna make some bullshit argument that the ends justifies the means as long as they invest the loot right?

Bja, you know I love you. You often want my coins to appreciate, which I like. But this is just retarded.

1) They will inherit the country as well. If the elected government thinks they need to build up some debt to avoid a worse faith for the country, then that's what they must do.
2) It's regular taxation. Most of the choices made by the current generation affects the next. They were represented by their parents and grandparents.
3) If you think you think that the problem with Nazi-Germany was taxation, then your ignorance is close to offensive. Which is quite a feat.
Wary
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February 26, 2015, 09:59:07 AM

3) If you think you think that the problem with Nazi-Germany was taxation, then your ignorance is close to offensive. Which is quite a feat.
No Nazi. He was talking about British Empire. "No taxation without representation" etc.
ChartBuddy
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February 26, 2015, 09:59:38 AM

Coin
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NotHatinJustTrollin
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February 26, 2015, 10:05:21 AM

No. Look at the orderbooks.
Orderbooks look pretty bearish to me.


Definitely more bearish than a few days ago.
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February 26, 2015, 10:09:23 AM

What a fucking clown. Using bitcoin as a currency for a country:
https://twitter.com/jonmatonis/status/570609094438088705

Until now I believed that Jon Matonis was one of the few sensible and realist people in the bitcon scene (even though he is a bitcoin salesman).  But that is just too naive (or insincere).  Oh well...
e

[1]So what is YOUR take on nations spending money that the unborn will have to repay? [2] If that's not taxation w/o representation, then what is it? You think that's moral? [3]We fought a war against the strongest empire on earth to stop that kind of tyranny.

Are you gonna make some bullshit argument that the ends justifies the means as long as they invest the loot right?

Bja, you know I love you. You often want my coins to appreciate, which I like. But this is just retarded.

1) They will inherit the country as well. If the elected government thinks they need to build up some debt to avoid a worse faith for the country, then that's what they must do.
2) It's regular taxation. Most of the choices made by the current generation affects the next. They were represented by their parents and grandparents.
3) If you think you think that the problem with Nazi-Germany was taxation, then your ignorance is close to offensive. Which is quite a feat.


Huh Surely you know I was referring to the American Revolutionary War where taxation w/o representation was explicitly a casus belli. By your reasoning, the colonialists were represented by the King and the Founding Fathers were traitors. You must also know that an heir can inherit wealth if the deceased has a positive net worth but is NOT obligated to take on debts of the deceased if he doesn't. We all have an obligation to our children that we don't have to our parents because nobody chooses to be born.
JorgeStolfi
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February 26, 2015, 10:09:46 AM

You still haven't read any books on economics.

I rather stay a stupid electronics engineer turned computer scientist turned appled mathematician..

Quote
Satoshi's trillions will come from the same place as Gates, Jobs, Buffet's billions came from:valuation of assets.

Real wealth is houses, land, cars, food, services, etc.  Wealth gets created and destroyed, sometimes both in quick succession, as when a cook prepares a meal that gets eaten right away.  

Bitcoin does not create any wealth. Its contribution to productivity, by (allegedly) being a more efficient payment instrument is tiny.  In fact, the contribution of bitcoin to world's production of wealth, so far, has been humongously negative: 100 times (at least) more wealth has been destroyed by the bitcoin network than has been created thanks to it.

It is not because of that tiny positive contribution that large early adopters have become wealthier, either on paper (if they are still holding) or in reality (if they cashed out).  Bitcoin's effect has been mainly to move property from some people to other people, mostly independently of their actual contribution to society.   The gains from the early adopters, in particular, came from the (substantially bigger) losses of  those who have bough coins and are still holding them.  If bitcoin's price ever reached a million, as the holders dream, then trlliions of wealth would be transferred -- little by little, imperceptibly -- from those who buy bitcoins to those early adopters who hold most of the coins.  If a country like Greece adopted bitcoin, that wealth would be taken from its citizens.  

That is the same trick that governments and banks use when they create more money, indeed. But when the government does it, it is just another kind of tax: the government is supposed to use the wealth that it buys with that new money for the benefit of its citizens.  When banks do it, of course, there is no such return: there is net and permanent transfer of wealth from the general people to bank owners.

And that is the case too when private entities create new money, whether it is gift certificates or Linden Dollars -- or cryptocurrencies.  *That* is why cryptocurrencies are a scam, even if they were to succeed.  

Quote
There is more relation to work done with bitcoin than any other currency ever. It is documented proof of work that makes a bitcoin a bitcoin.

The work of the miners is not constructuve but destructive: the world gets poorer by their work -- with less coal, less water in the hydro dams, etc..  If someone gets rich by destroying wealth, he must be taking more wealth from someone else.
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February 26, 2015, 10:16:41 AM

Btc-e : Last Price: 228.5 USDLow: 228 USDHigh: 232.5 USD
Volume: 5852 BTC / 1349929 USDServer Time: 26.02.15 13:15

Price going down not a good sign
KryptoFoo
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February 26, 2015, 10:20:59 AM

some nice buys at finex. eat em up!
billyjoeallen
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February 26, 2015, 10:28:08 AM

some nice buys at finex. eat em up!

Most of that was just shorts closing. Swaps are down about a thousand. 
dakota neat
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February 26, 2015, 10:29:24 AM

Charts couldn't look more bearish
JorgeStolfi
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February 26, 2015, 10:30:07 AM

00000000000000000b63fd2b074637a7252d9d456968d9d0e747f279dd8bc131

What does this number represent?
Hash of the latest block?

yes, but more importantly it represents the result of petahashes of computing power working for ~10mins to find an extremely difficult number (look at all those zeros!) that can not be reproduced, faked or counterfeited ... it is tangible, quantifiable, easily verified proof of very hard work.

Here is an even nicer number:

000000000000000000000000000000000dffb334bffcaaff3333fffffffffffffffffff

You say that a couple thousand dollars of electricity were used to find your number?  How stupid.  I found mine by just typing hex digits at random.  Yet it is a hash of some string too, like yours.  So, explain again, why is your number "wealth", as much wealth as a laptop or a good bike?  Why isn't mine "wealth", too?
oda.krell
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February 26, 2015, 10:31:49 AM

[...]
Real wealth is houses, land, cars, food, services, etc.  Wealth gets created and destroyed, sometimes both in quick succession, as when a cook prepares a meal that gets eaten right away.  
[...]


Nice theory, but... maybe time to join the 21st century, prof?





I guess I'll give you points for being consistent: you're probably not simply 'anti Bitcoin', but against the larger development of excessive 'financialization' (through financial derivatives), right?
KryptoFoo
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February 26, 2015, 10:32:56 AM

some nice buys at finex. eat em up!

Most of that was just shorts closing. Swaps are down about a thousand. 

Bring 'em in boys! up we go
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February 26, 2015, 10:39:43 AM

3) If you think you think that the problem with Nazi-Germany was taxation, then your ignorance is close to offensive. Which is quite a feat.
No Nazi. He was talking about British Empire. "No taxation without representation" etc.

Oh, lord
ghandi
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February 26, 2015, 10:40:44 AM

00000000000000000b63fd2b074637a7252d9d456968d9d0e747f279dd8bc131

What does this number represent?
Hash of the latest block?

yes, but more importantly it represents the result of petahashes of computing power working for ~10mins to find an extremely difficult number (look at all those zeros!) that can not be reproduced, faked or counterfeited ... it is tangible, quantifiable, easily verified proof of very hard work.

Here is an even nicer number:

000000000000000000000000000000000dffb334bffcaaff3333fffffffffffffffffff

You say that a couple thousand dollars of electricity were used to find your number?  How stupid.  I found mine by just typing hex digits at random.  Yet it is a hash of some string too, like yours.  So, explain again, why is your number "wealth", as much wealth as a laptop or a good bike?  Why isn't mine "wealth", too?

The challenge isn't to create a hash with leading numbers. That's easy as you proven. The challenge is, to find some random data that combined with given data (the actual transactions) and passed into a defined hashing algorythm will return this kind of hexdecimal number with the required amount of leading zeros. Wink

That's not something, that's easy to do. Wink
KryptoFoo
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February 26, 2015, 10:51:11 AM

maybe this time we can take 241/1495 and get on the upward trajectory. Shorts will no go down easy I suppose.
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February 26, 2015, 10:54:15 AM

00000000000000000b63fd2b074637a7252d9d456968d9d0e747f279dd8bc131

What does this number represent?
Hash of the latest block?

yes, but more importantly it represents the result of petahashes of computing power working for ~10mins to find an extremely difficult number (look at all those zeros!) that can not be reproduced, faked or counterfeited ... it is tangible, quantifiable, easily verified proof of very hard work.

Here is an even nicer number:

000000000000000000000000000000000dffb334bffcaaff3333fffffffffffffffffff

You say that a couple thousand dollars of electricity were used to find your number?  How stupid.  I found mine by just typing hex digits at random.  Yet it is a hash of some string too, like yours.  So, explain again, why is your number "wealth", as much wealth as a laptop or a good bike?  Why isn't mine "wealth", too?

The challenge isn't to create a hash with leading numbers. That's easy as you proven. The challenge is, to find some random data that combined with given data (the actual transactions) and passed into a defined hashing algorythm will return this kind of hexdecimal number with the required amount of leading zeros. Wink

That's not something, that's easy to do. Wink

I really don't know whether he or she is truly interested in this or merely trying to combat Bitcoin itself and not the proof if work algorithm. People need to understand that this is the solution to the Byzantine generals problem. Nothing more but also nothing less!
ChartBuddy
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February 26, 2015, 10:59:34 AM

Coin
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