Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[york780]

No , or they must make a new ETF and start the whole process over again. Not likely because of the money and time that they wasted on COIN. And we also have Solid X and Grewscale that are still running but they will likely also be denied because of bitcoin's small marketcap and its anomity.

[r0ach]

One of the critiques was from Professor Bitcorn

That guy doesn't seem to really know much about the technicals or fundamentals of bitcoin, but I actually agree with the ETF decision for a few reasons.  Bitcoin has no transaction finality or even eventual consistency since technically the entire chain can be re-written, and in order to make any claim of being decentralized (unlike Vitalikcoin), that's the way it has to be designed; so bitcoin does not, and probably never will, fit into any existing legal system.

thats almost like saying company XYZ can't be listed because half of the board can potentially leave to start a competing company, isn't it?

No, the term "consensus" is mostly a common shared delusion that can change into something completely different at any given time, and such a circumstance is not really compatible with a binary outcome legal system.  Bitcoin might also have to become inflationary to maintain any form of convergence after the block reward is gone, so whatever attributes were sold to ETF clients would be on false claims due to bitcoin still evolving as well.  If inflation is required, bitcoin would probably also fork off into all kinds of different chains at that point, from proof of stake to who knows what else.

It is not really written in stone that bitcoin is even a valid system yet, or that it won't be completely different and resemble nothing like how it started.  An ETF is kind of for a finished product without all the uncertainty - another reason I consider bitcoin a currency and not money.  Money doesn't fork.  I don't have to worry about Roger Ver sneaking into my silver or gold coins and forking them into...cheetos or some other unrecognizable molecular structure.

[infofront]

Gotta feel for the Winkles a little bit. I know they are privileged cocks - but they believe in BTC just the same as the rest of us.

it must be a real pisser to have all that effort thrown away at the last minute, especially when the sec could've saved it all for them years before. i wonder what other options they're looking at. i hope they keep pushing gemini at least.

Yeah, right from the beginning, the SEC could've just said. "No way. We can't control bitcoin."

[r0ach]

Gotta feel for the Winkles a little bit. I know they are privileged cocks - but they believe in BTC just the same as the rest of us.

Not really, their dollar cost average is something like $100.  Even with these exchanges shallow order books, they can probably still send all their coins to every exchange on the planet and dump simultaneously while walking off into the sunset at a large profit.  I assume they will probably try to dump OTC, though.

[starmman]

Gotta feel for the Winkles a little bit. I know they are privileged cocks - but they believe in BTC just the same as the rest of us.

it must be a real pisser to have all that effort thrown away at the last minute, especially when the sec could've saved it all for them years before. i wonder what other options they're looking at. i hope they keep pushing gemini at least.

Yeah, right from the beginning, the SEC could've just said. "No way. We can't control bitcoin."

I'm sure when market cap rises further they will be forced to change their minds - shame they didn't take the initiative earlier when given the opportunity. I guess a deflationary coin isn't what the feds want.

[Killerpotleaf]

the true reason for rejections is " we dont want help bitcoin in anyway, because we dont like it  "

[HI-TEC99]

Gotta feel for the Winkles a little bit. I know they are privileged cocks - but they believe in BTC just the same as the rest of us.

it must be a real pisser to have all that effort thrown away at the last minute, especially when the sec could've saved it all for them years before. i wonder what other options they're looking at. i hope they keep pushing gemini at least.

Can't their ETF be approved later down the line?

technically ya.

but that would be a "completely different application"

i'm guessing  years from now MAYBE the SEC could be persuaded to reconsider.

The pdf with the rejection decision in says if Bitcoin gets a shitload more money thrown at it in the future the SEC might consider changing its mind. I'm sure if Bitcoin's value increases 100x the SEC will fast track another ETF.

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/batsbzx/2017/34-80206.pdf

The Commission notes that bitcoin is still in the relatively early stages of its development and that, over time, regulated bitcoin-related markets of significant size may develop. Should such markets develop, the Commission could consider whether a bitcoin ETP would, based on the facts and circumstances then presented, be consistent with the requirements of the Exchange Act.

[york780]

Bitcoin will increase 100x in the upcoming years. Just have little pacience.

[becoin]

so bitcoin does not, and probably never will, fit into any existing legal system.

Math doesn't need to fit into legal systems. Legal systems need to fit into Math!

[Killerpotleaf]

Gotta feel for the Winkles a little bit. I know they are privileged cocks - but they believe in BTC just the same as the rest of us.

it must be a real pisser to have all that effort thrown away at the last minute, especially when the sec could've saved it all for them years before. i wonder what other options they're looking at. i hope they keep pushing gemini at least.

Can't their ETF be approved later down the line?

technically ya.

but that would be a "completely different application"

i'm guessing  years from now MAYBE the SEC could be persuaded to reconsider.

The pdf with the rejection decision in says if Bitcoin gets a shitload more money thrown at it in the future the SEC might consider changing its mind. I'm sure if Bitcoin's value increases 100x the SEC will fast track another ETF.

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/batsbzx/2017/34-80206.pdf

The Commission notes that bitcoin is still in the relatively early stages of its development and that, over time, regulated bitcoin-related markets of significant size may develop. Should such markets develop, the Commission could consider whether a bitcoin ETP would, based on the facts and circumstances then presented, be consistent with the requirements of the Exchange Act.

they want 90% of bitcoin trading on highly regulated  markets before they consider letting it trade on their highly regulated  markets.
if bitcoin goes up 100X and is still mostly traded OTC there reasoning still applies
Had gemini had a significant % of trading vol, it might of passed.
imo this is kinda silly because the majority of trading is done on exchanges that are similar to gemini for regulatory compliance.
expect maybe the chinese exchanges, but clearly thats getting an overhaul, and these market will now be HIGHLY scrutinized by regulators
i mean point me a place where a relevant amount of BTC vol is being traded with no oversight....

feels like SEC read Jorge's paper and based there view of the bitcoin ecosystem purely on that.

[Ibian]

Money doesn't fork.

Money forks all the time. It was common practice to dilute gold and silver coins with less valuable metals.

[r0ach]

Money doesn't fork.

Money forks all the time. It was common practice to dillute gold and silver coins with less valuable metals.

That's not a fork...it's the same thing as shaving.  You can't fork gold and silver you idiots!

[Ibian]

Money doesn't fork.

Money forks all the time. It was common practice to dillute gold and silver coins with less valuable metals.

That's not a fork...it's the same thing as shaving.  You can't fork gold and silver you idiots!

The kings ugly face is on both the pure gold coin and the half lead coin.

[Killerpotleaf]

Money doesn't fork.

Money forks all the time. It was common practice to dillute gold and silver coins with less valuable metals.

That's not a fork...it's the same thing as shaving.  You can't fork gold and silver you idiots!

you also can't move 30,000$ worth of gold from here to china for a buck.

imagine having to pay deals in gold LMAO!

[rjclarke2000]

Money doesn't fork.

Money forks all the time. It was common practice to dillute gold and silver coins with less valuable metals.

That's not a fork...it's the same thing as shaving.  You can't fork gold and silver you idiots!

My grandma has loads of silver forks in her draw next to her posh dinner plates.

[r0ach]

Money doesn't fork.

Money forks all the time. It was common practice to dillute gold and silver coins with less valuable metals.

That's not a fork...it's the same thing as shaving.  You can't fork gold and silver you idiots!

you also can't move 30,000$ worth of gold from here to china for a buck.

imagine having to pay deals in gold LMAO!

Imagine opening your borders to global labor arbitrage so that any nation with a population surplus outbids you in everything, forcing you into trillion dollar trade deficits.  Then after a couple years, no matter what you're paying them with, China owns all of it no matter what.  Then you print a new "domestic only" dollar, which then implodes because it's valueless, then you're back to a 3rd world country.

The moral of the story is, exporting all your money, no matter what you use as money, is never a valid choice in the first place.  This is why China forbids exportation of gold.  Just like using hard money prevents your sovereign debt from going out of control, it also acts as a barrier to prevent you from running trade deficits that eventually implode your country.  Everybody notices all the gold and silver getting onto the ship departing to China and usually stops it beforehand.

We will see how long it takes before unilateral action is taken this time:

http://didthesystemcollapse.com/

The only way to make it so they don't want all of it, is to stop manipulating it lower and raise the price so high they consider it overvalued.  Then they'll be happy to take some of your freshly printed Tbills again.

[Killerpotleaf]

remarkable market is holding this price like a champ.

[rjclarke2000]

remarkable market is holding this price like a champ.

I agree, this is not what I was expecting. At the moment, not bad at all.

[eddie13]

remarkable market is holding this price like a champ.

15jYgRVym33hQyHBXiq1sjFdQLgLaU4udZ

[Killerpotleaf]

remarkable market is holding this price like a champ.

15jYgRVym33hQyHBXiq1sjFdQLgLaU4udZ

lol i'll deal with you when the time comes.