Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JimboToronto]

benjamin?

u mean a  "brown bill"

Actually, I refer to them as "brownies".

I was trying to be international. After all, this is the BTC/USD Wall Observer.

I suppose if people can post about B-cash and B-gold I can mention brownies.

Actually I prefer A-cash and A-gold, short for Altcoin Cash and Altcoin Gold. Neither one has anything to do with real Bitcoin, They're just trying to steal the name.

[1714855794]

1714855794

[1714855794]

1714855794

[Torque]

Another 4x or 10x. Talk about kicking the hornet's nest. The higher this thing climbs the more I want to go into hiding. Normals are losing their shit over this.

If you think they're losing their shit now, just wait until the halving comes... and price basically doubles within 6 months from whatever level it is at then... for what appears to be no good reason...

Can you imagine bitcoin going from say $20k/btc to $40k/btc within 6-8 months? It will feel unreal.

That's why people should just buy some bitcoin now, and relax for a few years while they casually buy more.

[RejectedBanana]

P.S.: Almost everything is a taxable event as it involves "using" the actual value of BTC which is different than when you initially acquired it. The only thing I don't agree is that "moving the coins out of coinbase" is a taxable event. That doesn't make any sense.

Where is the source for "moving coins out of Coinbase" as a taxable event?

Would this mean if the coins were bought at, say, $1000 and then moved out immediately at $1000, then the gains are effectively zero? Or that I could even claim a loss if the price dropped?

Would this also mean that the further gains to $10,000 are effectively tax free, because, double taxation and all?

[Rosewater Foundation]

Can't argue with that.

[BitcoinBunny]

$10,100+ now. Took just minutes.

Will this thing hold $10K+ this weekend or not I wonder.

[HairyMaclairy]

$10,100+ now. Took just minutes.

Will this thing hold $10K+ this weekend or not I wonder.

 Well that’s the $10,000 question isn’t it. 

[bitcoinPsycho]

$10,100+ now. Took just minutes.

Will this thing hold $10K+ this weekend or not I wonder.

we could be looking at $11000 at the weekend based on hope

[Paashaas]

should i buy now or wait?

The price has tanked with more than $2000+ it might drop in the $8000 range but it's better to buy now.

Selling at this point is to risky.

Did you bought the dip ChristiTCM?

[Torque]

Hey in other news, precious metals are on sale. I'm sure that r0ach is sad.

If you ever wanted to own some, now's a good time.

[RejectedBanana]

can you name me a new technology that has been banned? why on earth would bitcoin be the first one? digitization of our entire culture is inevitable. digitization is in the sam e league as industrialization. it cannot be stopped.  

Possession of a Guggenheim printing press might have cost you your life at some points in history.
Distillation is widely illegal on an individual basis. Absinthe suffered a worldwide ban post-WW2. Hell, even alcohol itself was illegal in the US for a good time during Prohibition.
Equipment used for counterfeiting currency is illegal
Torrenting DRM material is illegal
Anti-DRM technology is illegal
Owning gold as currency was illegal in the US during wartime
Certain drugs and technology to produce them, both natural and synthetic are largely illegal.
Weapons of mass destruction are illegal (as mentioned)
Firearms are illegal in many countries
Hell, the Internet is even illegal in some countries. Certain social media is illegal behind China's great firewall.
There is even talk of making some types of encryption illegal

Basically, any technologies involved in the spread of information or ideas or substances that affect thinking or could cause harm or disruption to society have, at some point or another, been banned or attempted to be banned by some government. Governments and those in power will do anything to maintain the status quo.

I agree however that most technologies cannot be stopped. Won't stop them from trying, though.

[BitcoinBunny]

When I was a student and travelling between Amsterdam and the UK I was often reminded by customs (I guess because I am male and was young) bringing porn (of any kind) into the UK was illegal.  

[RejectedBanana]

I'm not much of one for TA, but looks like we might be halfway through an inverse head and shoulders. Bullish!

Confirmed? Looks like we just completed the right shoulder... Oort cloud here we come!

Anyone here ever read the old Gateway series with the giant food factories harvesting the Oort cloud?

[Paashaas]

What happend with all those doom predictions from those banksters, goverments, financial experts and 2 noble price winners?

I've seen a lot of FUD this week but somehow they disappeared 

Welcome back $10.000!

[Ibian]

Totally OT, but if anyone likes scifi look up The Deathworlders. Ongoing story with monthly updates.

[yefi]

Goldman Sachs CEO:   Something that moves 20% overnight does not look like a currency.  It is a vehicle to perpetuate fraud. 

To return to the Swiss, the franc appreciated 41% in less than an hour in January 2015. The whole of Switzerland must therefore be a vehicle to perpetrate fraud.

Also, an overnight drop of 8% in the pound sterling, which is the fourth largest currency, is A-OK apparently.

[Torque]

Goldman Sachs CEO:   Something that moves 20% overnight does not look like a currency.  It is a vehicle to perpetuate fraud.  

To return to the Swiss, the franc appreciated 41% in less than an hour in January 2015. The whole of Switzerland must therefore be a vehicle to perpetrate fraud.

Also, an overnight drop of 8% in the pound sterling, which is the fourth largest currency, is A-OK apparently.

Goldman CEO still questioning if Bitcoin is a currency because "cryptocurrency" has the word currency in the name, makes me seriously question the intellect and reasoning of their CEO.

He might as well have said "Something that moves 20% overnight does not look like a coin, or a bit." 

[kurious]

Do you know why Bitcoin is doomed to reach one million per coin?
Because that way everybody will probably don't mind paying CG on a single bitcoin.

 

On a different note...
considering all the many txs I made and all the different adds I used and all the keys/wallet that I compromised (yes, that happens as well you all know that) I don't even fucking remember how many BTC I touched in my life.
How on Earth am I supposed to pay CG?

[Money out] minus [money in]

Everything else is a wash. 

That's my thinking too.  There's no way I could provide details of every transaction I've made over the last 4 years, especially bct to alts to btc, etc.  And also considering that there's now no way for me to access any records from Mt.Gox.  So presumably the tax authorities (HMRC in UK) would reasonably accept the "$out minus $in" figure. That's my hope anyway.  But still, paying Capital Gains Tax on crypto profits would grate, a lot.

Just wondering if anyone here has yet made a CGT return to HMRC and how it was dealt with? They're massively under-staffed (up to 45 minute waiting time when phoning them, if you manage to get through at all).  My guess is that they would accept pretty much whatever method you decide to use (i.e. a "$out minus $in" figure) as long as it seems justifiable, and they would only rarely investigate further to see if your figures are accurate, in the way that usually just accept at face value most people's regular self-assessed tax returns. I doubt they have the resources to do anything further.

Has anyone here actually dealt with HMRC yet regarding btc profits? It would be interesting to hear about your experiences.

I have been working on it with a lot of advice from my accountant.

Pay the CGT, as if they look and find anything you are sunk.

You'd better hope they accept just CGT - if they consider it 'trading' then it's TAx at your highest rate - up to 45% if it's enough money.

CGT will be 20% max and you get over £11K GBP free of tax before you pay a penny.  You can deduct the costs of the coins you bought - so you only pay the difference as a taxable gain.

I very much doubt you will get away with 'gambling' - and yes, I have asked this question.  My accountant laughed.

I still don't know if I will just pay CGT - It's difficult to PROVE you are not a trader, and they decide - not you!

[Meuh6879]

Source : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-30/asymmetry-bubbles-status-quo-and-bitcoin

What's shocking and ridiculous is that upwards of $100 billion in electricity is squandered globally annually on stand-by devices and other painfully obvious sources of waste.

But this attracts essentially zero concern or commentary.

Do you notice any asymmetry in the scrutiny being applied to the status quo and to bitcoin et al.? The status quo-- wasteful beyond measure--is just fine: nobody questions the staggering waste built into the status quo, from hundreds of millions of devices consuming electricity but doing no work to hundreds of millions of vehicles idling in traffic for hours each and every day across the globe--nope, the really big issue is bitcoin / blockchain consumption.

Does anyone question how much electricity the vast server farms of Google and Facebook consume in order to serve up adverts and store photos of puppies and kittens? And how about the energy consumed by the NSA and the dozens of National Security agencies that have proliferated over the past 16 years? How much coal gets burned to serve adverts, archive photos of puppies and kittens, and store billions of emails, phone calls to Aunt Sadie, etc. for future analysis? (Dear old Sadie could be a jihadist--ya never know...)

[RejectedBanana]

Do you know why Bitcoin is doomed to reach one million per coin?
Because that way everybody will probably don't mind paying CG on a single bitcoin.

 

On a different note...
considering all the many txs I made and all the different adds I used and all the keys/wallet that I compromised (yes, that happens as well you all know that) I don't even fucking remember how many BTC I touched in my life.
How on Earth am I supposed to pay CG?

[Money out] minus [money in]

Everything else is a wash. 

That's my thinking too.  There's no way I could provide details of every transaction I've made over the last 4 years, especially bct to alts to btc, etc.  And also considering that there's now no way for me to access any records from Mt.Gox.  So presumably the tax authorities (HMRC in UK) would reasonably accept the "$out minus $in" figure. That's my hope anyway.  But still, paying Capital Gains Tax on crypto profits would grate, a lot.

Just wondering if anyone here has yet made a CGT return to HMRC and how it was dealt with? They're massively under-staffed (up to 45 minute waiting time when phoning them, if you manage to get through at all).  My guess is that they would accept pretty much whatever method you decide to use (i.e. a "$out minus $in" figure) as long as it seems justifiable, and they would only rarely investigate further to see if your figures are accurate, in the way that usually just accept at face value most people's regular self-assessed tax returns. I doubt they have the resources to do anything further.

Has anyone here actually dealt with HMRC yet regarding btc profits? It would be interesting to hear about your experiences.

I have been working on it with a lot of advice from my accountant.

Pay the CGT, as if they look and find anything you are sunk.

You'd better hope they accept just CGT - if they consider it 'trading' then it's TAx at your highest rate - up to 45% if it's enough money.

CGT will be 20% max and you get over £11K GBP free of tax before you pay a penny.  You can deduct the costs of the coins you bought - so you only pay the difference as a taxable gain.

I very much doubt you will get away with 'gambling' - and yes, I have asked this question.  My accountant laughed.

I still don't know if I will just pay CGT - It's difficult to PROVE you are not a trader, and they decide - not you!

Might not help for Mt Gox transactions, but I've found this tool pretty useful for importing trade histories elsewhere:

https://bitcoin.tax/

[BitcoinBunny]

Goldman Sachs CEO:   Something that moves 20% overnight does not look like a currency.  It is a vehicle to perpetuate fraud. 

To return to the Swiss, the franc appreciated 41% in less than an hour in January 2015. The whole of Switzerland must therefore be a vehicle to perpetrate fraud.

Also, an overnight drop of 8% in the pound sterling, which is the fourth largest currency, is A-OK apparently.

Isn't that the same bank that helped cause the Greek debt crisis?