Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Gyrsur]

i feel like i will be kinda disappointed if i actually make money on gme..

Well, disappointed is overstating it slightly, in my case.
I considered GME as a crazy diamond hand training exercise.

it's $154.36 after hours trading currently. wish I had bought. CFO has quit today.

[d_eddie]

Gosh, I missed it. What happened?

[rolling]

i feel like i will be kinda disappointed if i actually make money on gme..

Well, disappointed is overstating it slightly, in my case.
I considered GME as a crazy diamond hand training exercise.

it's $154.36 after hours trading currently. wish I had bought. CFO has quit today.

$172 now. It's going parabolic

[Gyrsur]

Gosh, I missed it. What happened?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/23/tech/gamestop-cfo-resigns/index.html

[lightfoot]

I wish it would be as good as real meat, it would help stop the maltreatment of animals that takes place in many countries.
Until then I will just have to try to chose meat from good farms.

That's what I do: There is a farm that has incredible meat and milk, it costs about twice what the stores charge but every spring I can go out there on a family weekend and introduce the kids to their hamburgers.

Which I think is important: You should know that meat comes from a big animal that is killed and is not something that appears in a styrefoam package. That way your kids are inoculated from becoming vegetarians when they learn how it's really done.

[lightfoot]

Gosh, I missed it. What happened?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/23/tech/gamestop-cfo-resigns/index.html

No kidding. That CFO does not want to go to serious prison.

[d_eddie]

i feel like i will be kinda disappointed if i actually make money on gme..

Well, disappointed is overstating it slightly, in my case.
I considered GME as a crazy diamond hand training exercise.

it's $154.36 after hours trading currently. wish I had bought. CFO has quit today.

$172 now. It's going parabolic

Got a site to watch after hours without insane delays?


@lightfoot I'm not following you on the prison thing, and a search didn't help much. Was it a joke or what's the deal?

[lightfoot]

M1 (not M2 or M3!), revised numbers...it is at...$18 tril (from $4 tril in feb 2020 and $1.3 tril in 2008)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1

Wait.... Banks no longer need to hold any reserves on savings or money market accounts even if they have high transaction amounts (basically checking type accounts)

That's.... going to be interesting. Banks will re-label checking as savings, need to hold no reserves at all. Think Frank Bailey's bank....

My I am so glad I don't have to deal with that system.

[OutOfMemory]

Calling him dangerously insane because he argues for synthetic beef isn't a great starter. Producing beef is incredibly wasteful, not to mention you have to butcher an animal.

I'm a proud carnivore, yet I would gladly switch to synthetic meat when it is similar in taste and cost. There's simply no reason not to.

After what I have read on the subject so far, it seams that synthetic meat lacks a lot of the nutrients that natural meat has.

Cows and what not, eat natural food and get all the nutrients in that food, synthetic food is just cells grown in a dish (or similar) with only the basics for cell survival.

I wish it would be as good as real meat, it would help stop the maltreatment of animals that takes place in many countries.
Until then I will just have to try to chose meat from good farms.

Ok, i start straight away and hope i don't lose track.
I'm a Vegetarian. Don't judge it yet. Why?

I (thought) i always liked meat. I had pretty much of it, in it's more ugly and more delicious forms.
But then, my wife made a hypnosis cert. When she was learning it, we did some practice sessions, which you need to get the certification.
One of these sessions ran under the topic "I'd like to be more proud of my values, to act more faithfully towards them".

Spoiler:
Turned out that the first animal i killed as consciously, as a kid, a toad, raised an unknown level of shame and guilt in me.
I remembered that months after the actual hypnosis session but i knew it was related.

After the session i couldn't eat meat any more. I could well taste and chew it, but i couldn't swallow it. I had to spit out.
I also saw pictures of the living animals in my mind when i tried to. Fine. In the end i didn't care. I am also forgetful, as most of WO might know, so i always tend to forget that i am a Veggie, bite into a sausage, but then i realize  
So i had plenty of occasions to discover the dynamics behind my new unwanted "lifestyle". But i also forget about many problems i have, and this one was just in line with others i encounter over time. This way my mind brought up that event from my childhood, when i killed that fat toad, by putting it in a jar and throwing stones at it, so it bleeded to death by the cuts. I didn't think about the outcome, but when the obvious happened, it struck me. There was a second kid, he was amused. I wasn't.
This event made me really take care to not ever hurt or kill an animal.
Decades later, i thought it is an idea to raise chicken and slaughter them. Said and done. But i the meat tasted horrible, while everyone else said it was tasting really good. So as long as the animal is hidden by the product (in form of ready cut meat and meat products), i had no problem eating and enjoying meat.
I also don't care if everybody else enjoys meat. I don't see the "lambie killer" (sorry Lambie Slayer) in a person that likes to eat meat or slaughters animals.
When i go fishing, one of my kids has to kill the fish, but i still prepare (and sometimes) cook the filets without a bad feeling. As a side effect, i learned to honor animals as the source of one of our most important foods.

Which takes me to the point, after writing 15-20 minutes on it, that animals and their meat should be treated and eaten respectful. I even would recommend everybody to slaughter an animal to finally eat its meat, before judging over vegetarians. I never judged them.
Sure, we know there's many of them that are veggies to put themselves unconsciously above ordinary meat-eating people (lambie killers and all), but it is exactly the motivation that is to be judged, not the lifestyle as such.

EDIT: Producing and eating "artificial meat" would be just the same as tofu. Even vegetarians should have not much of a problem to eat it. What bugs me the most about it is that it's not a 100% substitute (nutritional aspects, mainly) and it's also fucking disrespectful to nature (which isn't exactly unusual in most of our cultures).

[JayJuanGee]

If you have been in bitcoin for a while, but you are relatively young, and you feel disappointed with the size of your stash, you would still be way ahead of the vast majority of the worlds population because ONLY a small number of people both know about bitcoin and have taken measures to stack sats, and as I have frequently stated, in traditional circles, there have been a lot of people who had spent 30 years or more trying to accumulate wealth and some more successful than others, and if you end up being able to increase the chances that you will be successful by investing in sound money (surely referring to bitcoin here) and even to significantly cut down the timeline (maybe even cutting in half) to become richie or able to live off your investments, then you would be way ahead of a lot of people

a bit ago, just after btc had hit 35k or so i think, i talked to my main financial guy whom i hadnt spoken with for a while, maybe 6+ months or so. 1st words outta her mouth were "congrats on your bitcoin call!" she was truly impressed. said more clients are asking them about btc and theyre slowly learning it. said its still a hard thing to grasp from the olde skoole point of view but once traditional finance peeps get more involved it should get interesting. of course their clients dont want the trouble of holding and using btc itself. just as an investment thing. so 3rd party all the way.

but maybe some will truly understand and actually buy the btc instead of some eft or whatever thing that is offered.

Maybe I don't really understand how things work very well, because it seems to me that financial advisors are partially motivated by assets that have some kind of financial vehicle rather than buying the asset directly - and part of the motivation is being able to charge fees, but another motivation is having some kind of comfort level over how the asset is being held and whether it is insured....so the custody and insurance vehicles in bitcoin have ONLY recently being developed, which thereafter allow for the creation of financial vehicles, and those custody and insurance vehicles are fairly recent and still likely quite immature.. but likely some financial advisors are figuring various avenues into BTC besides GBTC (which surely has been a legitimate BTC financial vehicle but did likely suffer (if that's the right word?) somewhat from being one of the ONLY games in town for a while). 

I think that my main point in the quote that you took from me was a bit different from the point that you were making, vapourminer, which is that regular individuals have had an ability to access BTC for several years, probably 7 plus years without having to jump through too many hoops - and even 7 years later, if you already have established a BTC accumulating system for yourself, you are likely quite a ways ahead of even the vast majority of the population, even if it takes you 7 years from here to dollar cost average into BTC and you end up having to pay an average of 100x higher prices than some of us who had started 7 years ago-ish. 

But just consider if you are a fairly newbie to bitcoin and new to investing, if you are in your mid 20s or even early 30s, and you establish a decent position in bitcoin over the next 7 years or so, you could be in a way better place than many people who delay investing or take 30 to 40 years to establish an investment portfolio that might ultimately rise to the level of mediocre (consider someone who is in their 60s who might have $200k to $500k in their 401k - and maybe that is relatively well compared to the vast majority), but if you had been investing in bitcoin for 7-10 years or even 15 years, you may well have decent chances of still being ways  ahead of where you would have been absent bitcoin as an investment opportunity - even if you feel that you are paying quite higher prices relative to earlier adopters.

[OutOfMemory]

Performing like a shitcoin:

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GME

Heh, i am still holding for the spirit of the squeeze  

i feel like i will be kinda disappointed if i actually make money on gme..

LOL, i haven't. Still -60%  

Maybe I don't really understand how things work very well, because it seems to me that financial advisors are partially motivated by assets that have some kind of financial vehicle rather than buying the asset directly

Fine, but financial vehicles can break.
Like if a bicycle breaks, the wheel itself (as the invention) can't be "broken".
Bitcoin is "the wheel" of cryptocurrencies.

EDIT: Going to bed now with that epic thought in mind 

[JimboToronto]

Calling him dangerously insane because he argues for synthetic beef isn't a great starter. Producing beef is incredibly wasteful, not to mention you have to butcher an animal.

I'm a proud carnivore, yet I would gladly switch to synthetic meat when it is similar in taste and cost. There's simply no reason not to.

After what I have read on the subject so far, it seams that synthetic meat lacks a lot of the nutrients that natural meat has.

Cows and what not, eat natural food and get all the nutrients in that food, synthetic food is just cells grown in a dish (or similar) with only the basics for cell survival.

I wish it would be as good as real meat, it would help stop the maltreatment of animals that takes place in many countries.
Until then I will just have to try to chose meat from good farms.

Sure, you may be able to replace most of the vitamins, minerals, proteins and fatty acids of real meat with vegetables or synthetics, but you'll never be able to replace the spiritual benefit of eating real meat... the life force of the animal itself.

I don't say grace. I thank the animal itself.
___

BTW I'm an animal lover. I love to eat them, wear them, play fetch with them, and let them sit in my lap.

[rolling]

i feel like i will be kinda disappointed if i actually make money on gme..

Well, disappointed is overstating it slightly, in my case.
I considered GME as a crazy diamond hand training exercise.

it's $154.36 after hours trading currently. wish I had bought. CFO has quit today.

$172 now. It's going parabolic

Got a site to watch after hours without insane delays?


@lightfoot I'm not following you on the prison thing, and a search didn't help much. Was it a joke or what's the deal?

I'm just using Yahoo. Seems pretty accurate. Sometimes have to reload the page though. Trading does get halted quite often when prices are moving like this.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GME

[Elwar]

Calling him dangerously insane because he argues for synthetic beef isn't a great starter. Producing beef is incredibly wasteful, not to mention you have to butcher an animal.

I'm a proud carnivore, yet I would gladly switch to synthetic meat when it is similar in taste and cost. There's simply no reason not to.

After what I have read on the subject so far, it seams that synthetic meat lacks a lot of the nutrients that natural meat has.

Cows and what not, eat natural food and get all the nutrients in that food, synthetic food is just cells grown in a dish (or similar) with only the basics for cell survival.

I wish it would be as good as real meat, it would help stop the maltreatment of animals that takes place in many countries.
Until then I will just have to try to chose meat from good farms.

Sure, you may be able to replace most of the vitamins, minerals, proteins and fatty acids of real meat with vegetables or synthetics, but you'll never be able to replace the spiritual benefit of eating real meat... the life force of the animal itself.

I don't say grace. I thank the animal itself.
___

BTW I'm an animal lover. I love to eat them, wear them, play fetch with them, and let them sit in my lap.

Fake meat has been a thing among seasteaders as the solution to growing meat out on the sea. Sure, fish farms and all that but that isn't all that encouraging to someone who wants a hamburger every once in a while.

The thing I found interesting is you only need a few cells from the animal. So you could eat an otherwise endangered animal. And they're starting to be successful in bringing back to life species that have died off. Who knows, maybe the dodo bird is really tasty but we don't know.

[Biodom]

Mixing metaphors...nobody talks about diamond hands among bitcoiners, imho.
that's a GME meme.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoins-2021-rally-is-minting-thousands-of-crypto-diamond-hands-millionaires-11614200303

That said, 20tc bought in 2014 for $4000-4500 is above $1mil, so i think that actual investor numbers are much smaller than 100K (multiple wallets, etc.)
I would say it is probably 10-30K, still much smaller numbers than total number of millionaires (50 mil), so it is not even register.
At about $0.5-1mil/btc bitcoiners would start to affect overall millionaire numbers.

The thing I found interesting is you only need a few cells from the animal. So you could eat an otherwise endangered animal. And they're starting to be successful in bringing back to life species that have died off. Who knows, maybe the dodo bird is really tasty but we don't know.

Yes, absolutely, I made almost the exact same supposition somewhere above.
Maybe this how it would start-as an expensive exotic "meats".

[lightfoot]

Well all this meat talk made me realize I'm tired of eating grains so I just ordered a round of porterhouses. Off to get dinner...

Edit: Oh that was good. Now in a meat coma....

[JayJuanGee]

If you exercised a mostly HODL strategy then sure, you might be up somewhere in that neighborhood...
But if you have engaged in some other strategies, you would not necessarily be up as much as the mere increase in the price would suggest.

I was wondering a few days ago when I wanted to cash out some coin..... why 5% of my total was like 100x times then what I initially invested. I start to feel like I'm gonna buy whole buildings with cash.

Don't get too carried away.  I know that you like to get emotional about thingies, yet it is still preferable to think about what you are going to do and why you are going to do it, before you do it.  Many folks who are more logical, including peeps in this thread, like to plan their various BTC sell points in advance both in terms of price reached and quantity to sell, and of course, if you make a plan you can surely tweak it at a later date and before the BTC price is actually reached.

Btw.... if sh!tcoins are not in "alt-season" yet... then wtf is happening?? Is all this nonsense an illusion??    

Well, yes, part of your problem remains that you are lacking focus, and as you already realize, in this here thread, we give little to no shits about your various shitcoin distractions.. so if you have some likely delusional theories about various shitcoins, then best go somewhere else with that kind of irrelevant baloney.  Focus... savethe RF... focus.  you fuck.

I've had prophetic dreams about bitcoin price before these dumps. When it was 40k I dreamed I looked at the price and it was 29k. I woke up and saw it was still 40k said phew and didn't act on it. It later went to 29k exactly. This time my dream said 35k. I woke up saw it was still 55k said phew. I really hope it doesn't go any lower because I didn't act on this one either. To be fair I also had a dream it went down to 120k after going to 220k.

I have all kinds of dreams, including BTC going to zero or near zero and blah blah blah.. missing out on buying the dip and other various fears and fuck ups...

They hardly mean shit, in the whole scheme of things, except maybe a nice story to tell.

I sometimes have prophetic dreams. I had one like a week or two ago about Doge and I put a buy order exactly at 0.0555555  (I was sceptical and I put it at 0.0555666 to not feel like I was too greedy.)
And the price stopped exactly there.


And regarding to spending..... I have no idea. I think I might start a business that I could accept crypto as payment to not waste the investment and stack some more from the common sheeple folk.


Also.... Maybe for some it works out to just HODL. BUT MAN!!! F^CK THAT ........ Ain't nobody got patience for that, you need to live a little and learn how to read charts, to swing trades, to rodeo some billionaire pricks.    


*edit(): I also am perverted sometimes and think I am "a God" and like to pretend like I'm knowing when the price will dip again and I buy the dip so I can sell/dump later to buy the next dip.

I doubt that you or your various BTC/shitcoin/trading philosophies have very much credibility in these here parts,

but hey, who am I to say?  


just one humble bumble opinion, man.  

Calling him dangerously insane because he argues for synthetic beef isn't a great starter. Producing beef is incredibly wasteful, not to mention you have to butcher an animal.

I'm a proud carnivore, yet I would gladly switch to synthetic meat when it is similar in taste and cost. There's simply no reason not to.

Agreed. I see no extra value in the death and suffering of an animal, and would appreciate synth meat if it tasted like the real thing.

I have zero issue eating correctly replicated meats.

Same here. I am fine with it, if the meat doesn't grow on a living thing like a cow or a pig as long as it tasts the same. Why not.

yeah, but would it be a 5% or 27% fat "meat". If 27%, count me out  , unless it is wagu.

Kidding aside, I doubt that we will get there on cost, but it allows for exotic meats, of course.
Secondly, few years later people would not remember how "real" meat tastes. Perhaps, real meat would become a luxury item.

27% fat is not a bad thing, especially if it natural fat from an animal that has been raised decently.

people seem to believe that low fat is better than high fat, which is just ridiculous.  

There is actually a problem of eating too much meat with low fat that is related to gluconeogenesis but whatever, do what you want in terms of your fat avoidance...

Well, as I said it's best to have fiat (shitcoin) for this one. Which is why I won't do it. But, basically you buy however many BTC on the spot for current price of 55000. At the exact same time you sell a future, perhaps Sep 26th for this example, for the same number of BTC at a current price of 62700. profit equals 7,700 minus fees per coin

This can be done using CBOE and CME as well as many others, perhaps less reputable exchanges.

The risk for this trade is couter-party only and of course opportunity cost (there is no possiblity of capital gains or losses). Not your keys not your coins. Thing is it's all about levels of risk and what you are comfortable with in the end as well as your goals. Just remember nothing is risk free. Even holding your own keys is not risk free, there are roughly 4million inaccessible coins to prove that.

*Above prices are taken from Deribit.

How does this work exactly? I would love a bit more ELI5.

I posted a link earlier, here it is again.
https://blog.bitmex.com/how-to-arbitrage-bitcoin-futures-vs-spot/

The WO sometimes must be combed thoroughly, but it usually does deliver good info - be it bitcoin or digital cameras.

Or you're just halftrolling and... username checks out?  

Not trolling. What does WO stand for?

Hold my beer.  I got this one.    

I was wrong, we are pretty much seeing that bottom again. Not that it is such a bad bottom.



Guess 50K is such a psychological barrier, it will take a bit of pumping time to fully leave that behind.
Plenty of people happy to sell at 50K. 100K will be a huge test when it comes.

I see 39-42K.

You would ruin dee moo, now wouldn't you, save the RF?  

[Dabs]

Endangered meats, or rare meats /synthetic sound like a new market, like diamonds, where it is manipulated or controlled by a cartel. We all know diamonds are not rare or scarce, but you simply can't buy them cheaper than the prices they are sold for.

Maybe they will make those synthetic meats from rare birds that are supposedly illegal, like Ortolan? But everyone would still do the "cover your head with a large napkin."

[nanobtc]

@OutOfMemory, Well spoken, and honest. I had a different background.

I am 4th gen farmer, on a prairie. We mostly did row crops, but there were enough creeks zig-zagging through the cropland that we always kept 40-60 head of cattle. We fed out and sold their calves, and butchered for our own beef use. As farmers, we saw death often, and learned that it is a part of life.

I have carried newborn calves in the dead of winter to a 200 year old house my family owns in the woods to save them (momma's supposed to lick them off, but some of the heifers didn't know). It's never had electricity or even a road, has been unoccupied since the 1930's but it had a wood stove and we could warm them up.

During the annual rodeo of vaccination, I've been kicked in the chest several times and landed flat on my back in 6 inches of mud and shit. Horses kick behind, and high. Cattle kick sideways, as long as you stand up straight, they usually don't hit your face.

As children, we raised calves, broke them to lead to halter, and competed with them in the summer fairs. We cried when we sold them, because they were pets. The farm cattle were not pets, yet many recognized me, and we had our daily rituals as I fed and cared for them.

Still, I love to eat beef, because as Bob said, that's what God sez. There are a thousand variations, and I like how some of them taste. This is not factory farming, my family's cattle are some of the best in the world. We have one line that's been going for 80 years. I understand that red meat is bad for some people's gene pool.

EDIT: When I say 'farmer', it was not a hobby farm. I drove over 1200 acres at least four times every year, for decades. And worked cattle.
 

[JayJuanGee]

Oh gawd.. yefi...

you are not going to stand up for synthetic meat, are you?

 

I was hoping I'd sit down for it.

Honestly, I don't have a high opinion of most the food we produce right now, but then we have the food we deserve: cheap, convenient, tasty, nutritionless and contaminated.

Does removing the organism really change things? Our problems are here already.

Personally, I believe that you are convoluting the problem when you frame the matter like that.

Many of us who may have considered the matter of nutrition in any kind of meaningful way would have come across sources of information that shows that a lot of the problems with food supply come from various kinds of processing of foods and stuffing of ingredients to make cheaper and screwing around with oils to make various kinds of artificial oils.  The man made meat is likely to suffer from some of the similar kinds of processing issues, even though they are going to try to frame it as if it almost like the same thing and grown from a petri-dish so therefore even better than real meat... blah blah blah.

Surely, since this is an off-topic area, we need NOT get too deeply into it, because I surely don't want to be making food or nutrition related arguments, but I don't mind to share a bit of information that I have found out through my years of studying of the matter, which largely came in about 2011/2012 and thereafter here and there... and figuring out in 2011/2012 that I had previously largely accepted mainstream dogma about food including nutso things that eating too many eggs is bad for you or that if a box said healthy on it, it must be healthy.. blah blah blah... anyhow, I had largely begin to look into those kinds of matters to  figure out that we had been being fed a lot of baloney and surely motivated by some industries wanting to sell us man-made products as if they were better than natural and also probably some relationship to the medical industry, too... what they call the "standards of care" bullshit that seem to focus on drugs, lab tests and surgeries rather than real preventative-type approaches such as eating whole and natural foods (such as backed by weston price foundation) and getting sunlight everyday.

Bisq flashing on my left monitor, a sell has happened, then I look at the price : less than 39000€ WTH ! (not my selling price, but the average price)

Bought back with my usual profit elsewhere so no issue, in fact if it's crashing there is no risk for me, but I need to buy before a bounce.

The price on Kraken is moving like mad, I'm removing my offers, don't need that stress right now.

Sounds like you do have "issues," aesma, in which you are doing the opposite of what actually has been shown to work for years and years and years in bitcoinlandia.

What works is selling on the way up and buying on the way down.  

Sorry for your additional losses due to dumb.

Ah ah don't worry what I do is arbitraging, I sell on one medium above the current price and buy back at the current price. I split the gains half in fiat half in BTC.

The only thing is I do it manually so I have to be relatively quick to minimize the risk if the price is climbing, but considering my sell premium the risk is only to earn less, not to lose. Unless there is a freak accident, but even then, my sells are only 0.01BTC at a time. I've already earned much more than that.

When I'm busy, away or sleeping I deactivate my offers. Now I also do it if the price is moving like crazy.

The way that you describe your gambling habit does seem to be a bit better than I imagined, and I suppose if you feel that you have these matters under control, then who am I to say that you should change your system.

By the way, if you are attempting to use the system to acquire more BTC then you would attempt to stack your system in terms of trying to accumulate more BTC because, especially, in recent times, the fiat side of the ledger has been building a whole hell of a lot, ever since around $10k in early September.. so splitting profits 50/50 is likely to leave you with way more fiat than would be preferable.. but, hey whatever, you gonna do what you gonna do.