Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Hello, good to see your in it for the right reasons

Its for everyone and that includes assholes, the systems strong enough to face off any realistic attack but its still vulnerable to the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer problem. That's where the features and alts are interesting, one possible function of Bitcoin is contracts for the transfer of real world assets which sidesteps its value altogether and if bitcoin as a currency becomes too centralised in the hands of a small number of people its credibility suffers and therefore so does its value and that value will be transferred to whatever alts gain trust. Anyway, off topic and there's a lot of different views on it. Long live Bitcoin indeed

Personally, at the moment, I see this as an over-played problem of the poor getting poorer... b/c anyone can generate some savings into BTC.. and if they can hold onto their savings.. then there is decent potential for BTC holding the value... at this moment, we cannot be sure about BTC's value in 20 years... for example putting $5000 into a kids college fund... and then waiting to see what the value is in 20 years

True, its a classic problem with fixed supply currencies though, some of the stories from the industrial revolution are horrifying. It's probably a long way away but still worth considering, imho by the time it would be a major issue the importance of money in lives will be significantly reduced but there's no guarantee of that.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I am having trouble understanding the point exactly... ... I mean compared with the current system in which the bankers get free money.... ...

Does it really matter if there is a small number of people with BTC who are distributing BTC to others who want it... b/c once a person has bitcoin or earns bitcoin or saves bitcoin, then the question will be if the person can allocate a percentage of that for savings and then whether that BTC that is saved is going to hold its value.  I believe a lot has to happen between now and such a future, but I continue to believe that the less important question regards the early adopters as compared with the ability to save and then to have a savings appreciate.

[chessnut]

Why?

Markets can remain irrational.

Let us break the trend line so the weak can sell and we can move on up.

The sooner the better.

That is a fallacy. Market have irrational traits, but a counter argument to a legit edge is not "but the markets are irrational"

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

You will see the end of this bear market by these following indicators.

1) The price will go lower then most expected
2) The price will remain low longer then most expected
3) The loudest and the most enthusiastic bulls will start to blame bitcoin and everyone involved for the situation and then write dramatic final speeches of them leaving.

If you will get tired of seeing indicator 3, then it's time to buy, not before.

#3 spotted in the wild!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=554625.0;topicseen

 

btw why don't you expect a fast rebound? - if I observe this place properly all guys are playing "who gets the most bitcoins" - and they are wondering where the bottom is - probably not for selling at the bottom....

The market needs some rest to build momentum, and all of this isn't an act to drive the price down to buy back cheaper. This act is about dumping coins and creating illusions to keep the buy support up.
There are plenty of experienced investors who want out with certainty and they are just spreading out their sales to get better profits. These are mostly the investors that came in during the last November rally. They have no emotional attachment to bitcoin, that would make them stay. They are just doing what their schools taught them, to cut their losses in the best way possible, and to move forward with other investments. The loss of the markets in China and loss of the public trust isn't nothing to them. To them, bitcoin failed in the attempt to pass the threshold from illegal to legal finance.  When these guys will finish dumping, then the price will be low, but it will be stable.

[boumalo]

Price is not bad at all when you want to buy ;P

Worst if you want to sell

Most traders think that we didn't see the bottom yet; 436$ atm

A lot of traders think we will have a huge bull market before the end of the year after we saw the bottom of the market

[mmitech]

a post few pages back reminded me of a question, so what are some of the wrong reasons to get into Bitcoin ? 

   because I saw many people trashing members who want to make profit, I am not here to see my investment going to 0 and I am 90% (10% experimenting) into Bitcoin to see my investment go up.... the difference is as a speculator, I additionally do work around Bitcoin and search ways to improve it, I even quit my job to find out what best I can do to help the infrastructure and by that, I Indirectly give a bump to my investment (and yours).

   Profiting is the Biggest factor that will help boost adoption, now greed is something to worry about, some members has to stop being fanatics, use common sense and work smart (not hard but smart) and you will succeed in everything you do.

  another reminder, think about this, for Bitcoin to succeed, the Price has to go really high, think of a 1 million dollars, otherwise, simply the payment network wouldn't work when it is widely used, let me explain:

   imagine that Bitcoin went mainstream, and lets imagine that there is only 20 user around the world who wants to make a transaction of an average of $100K (ignore all other transactions and hoarded coins), now if Bitcoin is worth $10 how hard the transaction of $2M will it be ? let me tell you, really hard...they would need 200K BTC and we are talking about only 20 users, now if we compare that to VISA or Master card networks that make thousands of transactions a second, Bitcoin would fail as a payment network and wouldn't be able to compete with them.

  dont worry, Visa and Master card are purely payment processors, and Bitcoin is more than that,  "currency" (not yet legally defined yet) is only one application of the network, so a Bitcoin holder have more options than VISA card holder (yay like no one knew),  what does that mean? so more users means Bitcoin's price have to go up (more profit), and this is by design. unlike VISA when more users means more money for the Company and less for the users...


it sounded like a ponzi scheme ? or a pyramid ? well nope, because no one is promising anyone anything, and because anyone comes in today will profit and all comers will profit, it just have to keep going to the point where is no last one ( you know what that means)...


I know this is off-topic, but just something worth mentioning, when the price is going down and you fell weak think about what I wrote.....I think I will write a longer detailed post in my blog about this

[BBmodBB]

Price is not bad at all when you want to buy ;P

Worst if you want to sell

Most traders think that we didn't see the bottom yet; 436$ atm

A lot of traders think we will have a huge bull market before the end of the year after we saw the bottom of the market

$250 is next support and expect some real crazys to pop out of the woodwork then! LOLOLLL =) weeeee

[Adrian-x]

What was the actual china news that came out today to drop the price please? Scan read last 10 pages and couldnt see it, nor on reddit front btc page. Thanks.

JorgeStolfi is keeping track of it and posting info without bias, worth checking his posts:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=183158;sa=showPosts

Except you have to check all the factual claims.  Lots of erroneous stuff there.
But he does us all a service by teaching us a lesson in fact checking.
Lesson...delivered!

like Proudhon only more cunning and understated.

[seleme]

new lows on huobi

[Cheeseonastick]

https://i.imgur.com/TaFT0rQ.jpg

Looks to me like we're right on schedule.

[camolist]

keep dropping. ready to trade this case of silver back in for btc at the rate things are going

[Zule]

Fuck the lines drawing, we are beyond that...
Its the oh noes and fud that counts now

[JorgeStolfi]

Except you have to check all the factual claims.  Lots of erroneous stuff there.
But he does us all a service by teaching us a lesson in fact checking.
Lesson...delivered!

Well, thanks, I guess...    Corrections are welcome, I am trying to keep this post updated: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg6039395#msg6039395

[Walsoraj]

How do we know what's going on isn't part of an ongoing April fool's joke by all the major ticker sites that involves inverting chart data?

[seleme]

How do we know what's going on isn't part of an ongoing April fool's joke by all the major ticker sites that involves inverting chart data?

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

How do we know what's going on isn't part of an ongoing April fool's joke by all the major ticker sites that involves inverting chart data?

What if bitcoin was started as an April fool's joke back in 2009, and then it got really out of hand?

[seleme]

Oooh, more dumping. Btce's the obvious target with its low volume, wonder if it will disconnect from stamp and bitfinex or if they'll be fooled into following it down

It started on Huobi.

[inca]

You will see the end of this bear market by these following indicators.

1) The price will go lower then most expected
2) The price will remain low longer then most expected
3) The loudest and the most enthusiastic bulls will start to blame bitcoin and everyone involved for the situation and then write dramatic final speeches of them leaving.

If you will get tired of seeing indicator 3, then it's time to buy, not before.

#3 spotted in the wild!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=554625.0;topicseen

 

btw why don't you expect a fast rebound? - if I observe this place properly all guys are playing "who gets the most bitcoins" - and they are wondering where the bottom is - probably not for selling at the bottom....

The market needs some rest to build momentum, and all of this isn't an act to drive the price down to buy back cheaper. This act is about dumping coins and creating illusions to keep the buy support up.
There are plenty of experienced investors who want out with certainty and they are just spreading out their sales to get better profits. These are mostly the investors that came in during the last November rally. They have no emotional attachment to bitcoin, that would make them stay. They are just doing what their schools taught them, to cut their losses in the best way possible, and to move forward with other investments. The loss of the markets in China and loss of the public trust isn't nothing to them. To them, bitcoin failed in the attempt to pass the threshold from illegal to legal finance.  When these guys will finish dumping, then the price will be low, but it will be stable.

Lots of newbie accounts sounding very knowledgeable always come into existence during price weakness, then disappear.

[klopper]

BUY? SELL? BUY? SELL? BUY? SELL? BUY? SELL? BUY? SELL? BUY? SELL?

[TERA]

Can you guys stop feeling entitled to a rally every 9 months and accept for once that bitcoin is in a downtrend and stop calling everything FUD? It's getting old and doesn't help anything.

[JayJuanGee]

...
I don't mean to be argumentative, but I am having trouble understanding the point exactly... ... I mean compared with the current system in which the bankers get free money.... ...

Does it really matter if there is a small number of people with BTC who are distributing BTC to others who want it... b/c once a person has bitcoin or earns bitcoin or saves bitcoin, then the question will be if the person can allocate a percentage of that for savings and then whether that BTC that is saved is going to hold its value.  I believe a lot has to happen between now and such a future, but I continue to believe that the less important question regards the early adopters as compared with the ability to save and then to have a savings appreciate.

Yes, whether it can function as a safe store of value is the main issue for it to function as a monetary system. I think the main point there is what can it buy, that's what gives fiat currencies a real world value and if bitcoin ever reaches the point where it can be traded for oil then its made it, ie. the petrodollar (or other energy and commodities, hopefully renewable first and foremost).

I do see distribution as a problem though, an awful lot of trading seems to be intent on holding the price down while increasing holdings and the more coins someone has the more power they have in that situation. I don't think that situation can improve while we use conventional exchanges but eventually the exchanges should empty to the point where they're no longer able to hold a stable value and the price will need to be decided by other means (no idea what).

I agree with you about the need to establish prices outside of exchanges - or at least in some kind of manner that is more difficult to manipulate.....    .... and that way the BTC price would reflect overall demand and adoption better...    This may improve with large adoption and larger market cap.. lets say if the market cap was 1 trillion or more... but we even know that gold prices are manipulated. and that gold is 7 trillion market cap.