Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[romneymoney]

Oh, now I get your name.

Italian cuisine is master race cuisine. Italian liquors though are... meh, at best.

There, I said it

I partially agree, but i have to work with what i got...  and Grappa Barricata work man, it work great

Actually, Grappa isn't half bad, imo.

It's the limoncello (and similar super sweet liquors) I despise. Liquid toothpaste, I'm telling ya!

I discovered Solerno Blood Orange Liquor and it is super sweet and Italian.  Nothing like liquid toothpaste though.  Excellent in many mixed drinks.  Tastes like orange soda when mixed with seltzer.

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[grappa_barricata]

DOGE with a massive spike today. It finally broke its long term down trend. As stupid as some of you may think the coin is, its a great sign for the entire crypto market as a whole. Let's hope it holds because less liquid alts can show signs of a market wide reversal long before BTC can.

Dumping BTC 2 bi DOGE nao!

The pump seems to have started 3 days ago... maybe it is too late to join dem evil pump-n-dumpers  .

[adamstgBit]

DOGE with a massive spike today. It finally broke its long term down trend. As stupid as some of you may think the coin is, its a great sign for the entire crypto market as a whole. Let's hope it holds because less liquid alts can show signs of a market wide reversal long before BTC can.

Dumping BTC 2 bi DOGE nao!

The pump seems to have started 3 days ago... maybe it is too late to join dem evil pump-n-dumpers  .

i could never bring myself to buy into a pump, DOGE is up 100% in about 2 weeks, scary.

[adamstgBit]

BTC just floating up, nice and easy on low volume.

wood floats! what a surprise...

[grappa_barricata]

DOGE with a massive spike today. It finally broke its long term down trend. As stupid as some of you may think the coin is, its a great sign for the entire crypto market as a whole. Let's hope it holds because less liquid alts can show signs of a market wide reversal long before BTC can.

Dumping BTC 2 bi DOGE nao!

The pump seems to have started 3 days ago... maybe it is too late to join dem evil pump-n-dumpers  .

i could never bring myself to buy into a pump, DOGE is up 100% in about 2 weeks, scary.

If you 'infiltrate the game' before the pump they can be a lot of fun&profit, but then you need to be willing to sit on useless crap for a while.
And the pump may not come at all...
If you join the pump after it started then there is a very good chance of pain.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Taras]

BTC just floating up, nice and easy on low volume.

wood floats! what a surprise...

*knocks on wood*

[JorgeStolfi]

I fail to see why you think that applications built on top of the Bitcoin network are fundamentally any less secure as a payment method than applications built on top of the legacy banking system.

The Bitcoin applications and their security can (and will eventually) exhibit the same amount of security (or lack thereof) as those tied in with the banking system. That part is obvious, because the Bitcoin protocol doesn't address the security of this layer in any way.

Maybe... But the cryptocurrency principle of offline generation of key/address pairs so distinct from the traditional models that it  is hard to compare the risks.  It removes some weakeness but adds others.

For example, consider the risk that a malicious version of a popular wallet software will choose the keys from a small set known to the thief (with, say, only 2^30 possibilities).  There is no test that can reveal the weakness of those keys, and the probability of a collision would still be very small. The malicious code can erase itself after some time, leaving no trace of its action.  Such a malware may run undetected for months, providing thousands of users with weak keys; until the thief strikes and empties all the compromised addresses at once.  This attack will work even on computers that are isolated from the internet, and could hit cold wallets as easily as hot ones; so the damage could be quite substantial.

(The wallet software itself could be tested after each release by generating a few billion keys and looking for collisions; but the malware could be programmed to detect intensive use, or to generate weak keys only in special situations -- such as in machines with a specific range of IP addresses, or in a certain range of dates -- that the test setup may not satisfy.)

What is fundamentally different is the security of the underlying transfer mechanism itself. In the case of the legacy banking system, built on central authority, it allows high-level interference if conflict resolution is required. In the case of Bitcoin, no such interference is possible, because the decentralized consensus cannot be changed by any individual (or any group below ~50% of network computing power).

So, to summarize: the only additional security that comes from applications on top of the banking system are

[ ... ] b) security through central authority revisions - this part is by design, and it is not at all obvious to me that the positive effects (justified execution of central authority) outweight the negative effects (unjustified execution of central authority). We probably won't be able to answer this question without reference to some principles that we do agree or do not agree on, but I am pretty sure that any case of justified execution of central authority in finance you can bring forward, I or someone else will be able to counter with a case of abuse of such power.

4f

Indeed, there seems to be a fundamental dilemma there.  Satoshi solved the problem of secure trustless e-payments, but there is still no solution for the problem of recovering stolen coins without spoiling that primary goal.

[jl2012]

Indeed, there seems to be a fundamental dilemma there.  Satoshi solved the problem of secure trustless e-payments, but there is still no solution for the problem of recovering stolen coins without spoiling that primary goal.

I have some sliver coins got stolen. Please teach me how I could recover them.

[grappa_barricata]

Indeed, there seems to be a fundamental dilemma there.  Satoshi solved the problem of secure trustless e-payments, but there is still no solution for the problem of recovering stolen coins without spoiling that primary goal.

This is unsolvable. Please ponder about the definition of 'stolen' in a system where property is defined by 'knowledge of a key'.
There is no way to mathematically demonstrate that a transaction, for example, was fraudulent. Or that if two people know the same key then one is a rightful owner (whatever that means) and the other is not.

[adamstgBit]

if people could reverse TX for wtv reason, bitcoin wouldn't be as cool, and i probably wouldn't be a buyer.

[Schickeria]

I wager we bounce back to ~550 before resuming downtrend.

[adamstgBit]

if people could reverse TX for wtv reason, bitcoin wouldn't be as cool, and i probably wouldn't be a buyer.

i say this and i feel victime to scam myself, i lost 5BTC back in the day on what should have been an oboives scam, 100$ nuts.com gift card for 50$.

but also i bought a graphic card it didnt work i sent it back and the seller sent me back my coins...

the FBI stole all of SR users funds and sold it back to the market at 500% higher then they were worth when originally stolen.

it is not for bitcoin to say what is fair and what is not, bitcoin is completely neutral, and the fact that these events happened and it didn't destroy bitcoin itself is a testament to bitcoins unshakeable core values / indifference to silly human "morality".

for the first time in history, history cannot be rewritten at a whim, this is epic, this is bitcoin!!!

[JorgeStolfi]

I have some sliver coins got stolen. Please teach me how I could recover them.

You go to the police and hope that they can catch the thief and get your coins back.
 

[jl2012]

I have some sliver coins got stolen. Please teach me how I could recover them.

You go to the police and hope that they can catch the thief and get your coins back.
 

So just do the same in case your bitcoin is stolen.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[xyzzy099]

Indeed, there seems to be a fundamental dilemma there.  Satoshi solved the problem of secure trustless e-payments, but there is still no solution for the problem of recovering stolen coins without spoiling that primary goal.

Jorge, here is a study of an important case involving the theft of bank notes and the Royal Bank of Scotland.  This case illustrates pretty clearly why fungibility of a currency takes precedence over being able to recover stolen currency.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2260952

There is no dilemma here - it is design.

[hyphymikey]

Did someone turn on a mini willy bot?

[grappa_barricata]

[Erdogan]

480 is being defended by 10,000 spartans commanding 30,000 free greeks!  WOOT! WOOT!

  

My only hope now is if all the chinese awake in 4h, eat their baozi and start buying like crazy

Careful mentioning the chinese, you might wake the megatroll.