Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

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Explanation

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[JayJuanGee]

You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.

can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic...

+5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards...

look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months.  Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly?  Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments.

that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed...

You mostly seem to be full of shit and talking your book, but since you gave some borderline non-trollish responses, I will respond in turn.

If you are disappointed, likely you set up your own false expectations or over invested or failed to have a strategy. 

Probably, you are just saying that you are disappointed b/c you seem to be trolling us, yet disappointed seems to be an awkward choice of words.. mostly you can be disappointed about yourself, which would make the most sense for a decent context for the use of the word.

short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise...

your odds are stated weirdly... are you saying only 30% chance that bitcoin will rise from it's present price?   Actually, the odds seem pretty decent that BTC prices will rise from its present price in the very near future.. less than a month is very likely.. but I am NOT really very certain about these kinds of predictions.. if we are talking about a year or even 5 years, then the odds are pretty fricken high that BTC will rise from its current price.. and there is a matter of quantity and a matter of stability and a matter of considering whether cashing out at any point is appropriate as or after such rise has occurred and people will come to varying conclusions regarding that.

with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected

If you lost money, likely it is due to your trading.  You do NOT lose money until you cash out, and if you picked unrealistic time lines then maybe you just had a bad strategy or a bad plan.

If you want to tell people that you are a stupid-ass fuck up, then that is your choice.  Sometimes it would be better to frame the topic a little more objectively and a little bit beyond your own narrow experiences (especially if you made some stupid ass mistakes b/c you were greedy or if you just merely had some bad luck).  In other words, bitcoin is far from over,and if you believe that there are going to be further losses, you and your friends may well miss the train or being running after it.

there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it

Bitcoin does NOT appear to be in such a perilous stage as you seem to be describing it to be.  Yes, there may be additional decreases in price and price may possibly (though seemingly unlikely) sink into the $300s again, but even that would NOT be a death knell to bitcoin absent some further negative developments above and beyond downward price manipulation.

i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money"

I would NOT force or attempt to persuade anyone.. If you want to be helpful to people, you merely need to provide them some information and allow them to come to their own conclusion(s) regarding how and whether to proceed.

[empowering]

You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.

can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic...

+5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards...

look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months.  Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly?  Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments.

that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed...

short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise...

with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected

there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it

i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money"

When did you buy in? and how did you lose money?  did you buy high and sell low? or get margin called? how exactly did you lose a lot of money?

i don't see a point in giving especially you more ammo to shoot at me

?...... I am merely asking for you to clarify your statement that you have lost money?

I am not sure how that is "ammo" to ask you to explain your statement in a way that people can understand that makes sense? other than a vague "I lost a lot of money" because that does not say much about Bitcoin on its own at all...

I am asking how you managed to accomplish losing money ?   was it buy high and sell low? or margin calls or bad trading? or are you sitting on unrealised losses, or are you talking hypothetical losses? (due to missing perfect hypothetical trades)

It makes a LOT of difference, and your answer could give context and substance to your "I lost a lot of money because Bitcoin" statement....

more or less

25% buying high/hypothetical losses
25% bad trading

since it isn't just about the money the main problem is the loss of faith in the bitcoin market...

i even unignored fallling (and ignored again)

but i am only bearish since sunday...so with a lot of new shorts and a bit of stagnation some people will maybe get nervous and give the much needed momentum to the upside

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

[JayJuanGee]

In other news: "Court grants man divorce over wife's demand for excessive sex" http://news.oneindia.in/mumbai/court-grants-man-divorce-over-wife-s-demand-for-excessive-sex-1512784.html

The husband alleged that she used to force him into having unnatural sex and whenever he tried to resist it, she would abuse him following which he had to succumb to her pressure and persistent demands. He told the court that he worked in three shifts leaving him very tired, and even then he was compelled to satisfy her 'lust'.

Poor guy.   

[razorramon]

You mostly seem to be full of shit and talking your book, but since you gave some borderline non-trollish responses, I will respond in turn.

If you are disappointed, likely you set up your own false expectations or over invested or failed to have a strategy. 

Probably, you are just saying that you are disappointed b/c you seem to be trolling us, yet disappointed seems to be an awkward choice of words.. mostly you can be disappointed about yourself, which would make the most sense for a decent context for the use of the word.

short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise...

your odds are stated weirdly... are you saying only 30% chance that bitcoin will rise from it's present price?   Actually, the odds seem pretty decent that BTC prices will rise from its present price in the very near future.. less than a month is very likely.. but I am NOT really very certain about these kinds of predictions.. if we are talking about a year or even 5 years, then the odds are pretty fricken high that BTC will rise from its current price.. and there is a matter of quantity and a matter of stability and a matter of considering whether cashing out at any point is appropriate as or after such rise has occurred and people will come to varying conclusions regarding that.

with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected

If you lost money, likely it is due to your trading.  You do NOT lose money until you cash out, and if you picked unrealistic time lines then maybe you just had a bad strategy or a bad plan.

If you want to tell people that you are a stupid-ass fuck up, then that is your choice.  Sometimes it would be better to frame the topic a little more objectively and a little bit beyond your own narrow experiences (especially if you made some stupid ass mistakes b/c you were greedy or if you just merely had some bad luck).  In other words, bitcoin is far from over,and if you believe that there are going to be further losses, you and your friends may well miss the train or being running after it.

there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it

Bitcoin does NOT appear to be in such a perilous stage as you seem to be describing it to be.  Yes, there may be additional decreases in price and price may possibly (though seemingly unlikely) sink into the $300s again, but even that would NOT be a death knell to bitcoin absent some further negative developments above and beyond downward price manipulation.

i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money"

I would NOT force or attempt to persuade anyone.. If you want to be helpful to people, you merely need to provide them some information and allow them to come to their own conclusion(s) regarding how and whether to proceed.

i tried to be really polite sound reasonable (if you like it or not)...and still you managed to call me piece of shit? well...fuck you

[ensurance982]

Except for that wall at $515 the ask side looks rather flat at the moment! Thing is, I don't see any reason for a quick recovery at the moment. Either we're going up constantly and sustainably or we'll be in for some more bleeding out, including flash crashes. I think the latter is more probable!

[JayJuanGee]

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

Empowering: 

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? 

[JayJuanGee]

You mostly seem to be full of shit and talking your book, but since you gave some borderline non-trollish responses, I will respond in turn.

If you are disappointed, likely you set up your own false expectations or over invested or failed to have a strategy. 

Probably, you are just saying that you are disappointed b/c you seem to be trolling us, yet disappointed seems to be an awkward choice of words.. mostly you can be disappointed about yourself, which would make the most sense for a decent context for the use of the word.

short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise...

your odds are stated weirdly... are you saying only 30% chance that bitcoin will rise from it's present price?   Actually, the odds seem pretty decent that BTC prices will rise from its present price in the very near future.. less than a month is very likely.. but I am NOT really very certain about these kinds of predictions.. if we are talking about a year or even 5 years, then the odds are pretty fricken high that BTC will rise from its current price.. and there is a matter of quantity and a matter of stability and a matter of considering whether cashing out at any point is appropriate as or after such rise has occurred and people will come to varying conclusions regarding that.

with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected

If you lost money, likely it is due to your trading.  You do NOT lose money until you cash out, and if you picked unrealistic time lines then maybe you just had a bad strategy or a bad plan.

If you want to tell people that you are a stupid-ass fuck up, then that is your choice.  Sometimes it would be better to frame the topic a little more objectively and a little bit beyond your own narrow experiences (especially if you made some stupid ass mistakes b/c you were greedy or if you just merely had some bad luck).  In other words, bitcoin is far from over,and if you believe that there are going to be further losses, you and your friends may well miss the train or being running after it.

there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it

Bitcoin does NOT appear to be in such a perilous stage as you seem to be describing it to be.  Yes, there may be additional decreases in price and price may possibly (though seemingly unlikely) sink into the $300s again, but even that would NOT be a death knell to bitcoin absent some further negative developments above and beyond downward price manipulation.

i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money"

I would NOT force or attempt to persuade anyone.. If you want to be helpful to people, you merely need to provide them some information and allow them to come to their own conclusion(s) regarding how and whether to proceed.

i tried to be really polite sound reasonable (if you like it or not)...and still you managed to call me piece of shit? well...fuck you

You tried to be polite?  Well, you seemed to have NOT been trying very hard, and you have little self control, no wonder you are having troubles with your BTC investments.


Regarding my comments towards you, I was attempting to be helpful to you and to people in like situations.  Too bad that you took my various comments so personally.   

[adamstgBit]

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

Empowering:  

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)?  

your avg price is more interesting Jay, you bought your first coins off local bitcoins, higher then 1000$ right?

[JorgeStolfi]

Try and find a quote where I call Chinese volume "fake". Should be difficult (or very far into the past, maybe).

Sorry, from the bottom caption that you put in that image I inferred that you thought so.

Just for the record, I do not think that the Chinese are going to drive the price to zero.  Quite the opposite, I believe they are the ones still holding the price at the current level.  Without them, the price woud certainly be as low as the 350$ of Apr/11; perhaps as low as 150$.  But you know that I think that.
[/quote]

[X7]

In other news: "Court grants man divorce over wife's demand for excessive sex" http://news.oneindia.in/mumbai/court-grants-man-divorce-over-wife-s-demand-for-excessive-sex-1512784.html

The husband alleged that she used to force him into having unnatural sex and whenever he tried to resist it, she would abuse him following which he had to succumb to her pressure and persistent demands. He told the court that he worked in three shifts leaving him very tired, and even then he was compelled to satisfy her 'lust'.

[empowering]

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

Empowering:  

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)?  

$75 and under

(though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there)  

(I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC)

(apart from that I have never sold a single BTC)

[JayJuanGee]

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

Empowering: 

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? 

your avg price is more interesting Jay, you bought your first coins of local bitcoin higher then 1000$ right?

Thanks for your interest. 

My first 1.24 coins cost me $1,500 through Localbitcoins in late November 2013 (which was at $1200 per BTC).  Thereafter I was buying in fairly small increments for the next several months, and I ran out of fiat a few times when the prices were lower (such as in the $350s).  My average price per BTC including administrative / and transaction costs is currently at about $605. 

I did have my average cost per BTC down to $595, but then I got a bit excited in the recent $600s in part due to extensive amounts of fiat coming into my bank account (around that time - mostly in June and July). 

Due to the quantity of my current BTC holdings, I am fairly doubtful that I will be able to bring my average price per BTC down very much in the near future, and I am anticipating some bring my average price per BTC down to be possibilities when BTC prices cross above the trendline or at minimum when BTC prices cross at least 20% above my buy-in price.

[JayJuanGee]

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

Empowering:  

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)?  

$75 and under

(though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there) 

(I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC)

I am going to attempt to resist developing "BTC buy-in price envy"   

[empowering]

@empowering -- as an ex-finance man I thought you were a bit more into the numbers than all the cultist clap-trap -- is this what you did with your clients "don't worry about the APR, here's an amusing gif I found on the internet"? 

EDIT -- just saw the above post -- faith is seldom shaken when you are still making a 500% profit

I think I strike a nice balance on here of laughs and contribution... maybe that is just me...

and also no... at work.... I was always stone cold serious.... I did not make many friends.

Here though everyone is a friend 

[oda.krell]

Try and find a quote where I call Chinese volume "fake". Should be difficult (or very far into the past, maybe).

Sorry, from the bottom caption that you put in that image I inferred that you thought so.

Just for the record, I do not think that the Chinese are going to drive the price to zero.  Quite the opposite, I believe they are the ones still holding the price at the current level.  Without them, the price woud certainly be as low as the 350$ of Apr/11; perhaps as low as 150$.  But you know that I think that.

True, the caption implied that I consider the volume fake.

I guess the more accurate (but less funny :D) version is: in previous discussions, you chose to include Chinese volume 1:1 in your analysis (i.e. you consider it as "real" as the volume on the other exchanges), while I consider large parts of Chinese volume meaningless for most analysis, at least when comparing cross exchanges or aggregating volume.

[empowering]

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

Empowering:  

approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)?  

$75 and under

(though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there) 

(I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC)

I am going to attempt to resist developing "BTC buy-in price envy"   

It was not totally faultless... I did not buy tons.... I should have acquired many many many more than I actually did under those prices...

Then after early/ mid  last year I ran out of fiat to play with, and some personal reasons had to step back from investing/buying and now I also have other interests that take up my resources and due to various reasons I am not fiat flush atm... though I do have some dry powder for certain scenarios.. if it were not for the other rather pressing responsibilities and concerns I have in other aspects of my life, I would still be a buyer... however for now, I am,  a hodler.... maybe buy the odd dip here and there, depending on what happens with some other things.

I hold a few other coins in some fair numbers.. some of those are a bit daunting to look at.... but I have not lost anything on those yet either.

[empowering]

You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.

can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic...

+5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards...

look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months.  Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly?  Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments.

that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed...

short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise...

with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected

there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it

i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money"

When did you buy in? and how did you lose money?  did you buy high and sell low? or get margin called? how exactly did you lose a lot of money?

i don't see a point in giving especially you more ammo to shoot at me

?...... I am merely asking for you to clarify your statement that you have lost money?

I am not sure how that is "ammo" to ask you to explain your statement in a way that people can understand that makes sense? other than a vague "I lost a lot of money" because that does not say much about Bitcoin on its own at all...

I am asking how you managed to accomplish losing money ?   was it buy high and sell low? or margin calls or bad trading? or are you sitting on unrealised losses, or are you talking hypothetical losses? (due to missing perfect hypothetical trades)

It makes a LOT of difference, and your answer could give context and substance to your "I lost a lot of money because Bitcoin" statement....

more or less

25% buying high/hypothetical losses
25% bad trading

since it isn't just about the money the main problem is the loss of faith in the bitcoin market...

i even unignored fallling (and ignored again)

but i am only bearish since sunday...so with a lot of new shorts and a bit of stagnation some people will maybe get nervous and give the much needed momentum to the upside

thanks...

but

I am still unclear

Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"


25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight?  (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
 
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)

Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?

Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument"  and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.

You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?

Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and  continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons...  I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...

May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?

any further clarifications ?

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

In other news: "Court grants man divorce over wife's demand for excessive sex" http://news.oneindia.in/mumbai/court-grants-man-divorce-over-wife-s-demand-for-excessive-sex-1512784.html

The husband alleged that she used to force him into having unnatural sex and whenever he tried to resist it, she would abuse him following which he had to succumb to her pressure and persistent demands. He told the court that he worked in three shifts leaving him very tired, and even then he was compelled to satisfy her 'lust'.

Poor guy.   

Ok! Now think about the same news but interchanging the husband with the wife....is it still funny?

inb4:

omg! rape rape! sexism! women are opressed! etcetcetc.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation