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Question: When will BTC get back above $70K:
7/14 - 0 (0%)
7/21 - 1 (0.9%)
7/28 - 11 (10.1%)
8/4 - 16 (14.7%)
8/11 - 7 (6.4%)
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After August - 60 (55%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26466961 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
explorer
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October 04, 2014, 11:51:53 PM


Ok I know this might sound nuts. But what if electricity costs were not a factor. Imagine Putin has a secret mission whereby he is giving away power to a secret team of miners...in secret Shocked

    Does Russia have a lot of IC mfg capacity?  No?  Then where are they getting this secret mining hardware from?  Hash rate has fallen off substantially this period, possibly to the point of a difficulty decrease.  Whatever Putin may be mining, it isn't bitcoin. 
explorer
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October 04, 2014, 11:53:08 PM


Ok I know this might sound nuts. But what if electricity costs were not a factor. Imagine Putin has a secret mission whereby he is giving away power to a secret team of miners...in secret Shocked

sounds like too much effort.... he is too lazy for that.... he just does not Putin the hours..  

Sorry, I shall get my coat.

TAXI!!

Not only a source of meme gifs   Cheesy
derpinheimer
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October 04, 2014, 11:53:40 PM

Huge farm just turned on somewhere, hashrate is over 340PH



Hashrate is up over 50% today! SHIIIIEET!
phoenix1
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October 04, 2014, 11:54:33 PM
Last edit: October 05, 2014, 12:13:26 AM by phoenix1

What's interesting is days destroyed is basically at zero. All the coins being moved to exchanges to be sold are probably very new. The theory Chinese miners are selling to get their money offshore denominated in USD is pretty interesting.


I will keep coming back to BurtW's post on mining breakeven costs based around energy, which projects a mid October price of $233. If miner's are selling there comes a price point where buying is more cost effective than mining. I could see a bottom around $250.


When calculated in the OP over the time period from March 14, 2013 to March 13, 2014 the average increase in the difficulty and hash rate was 23.92% per adjustment period and the average length of each adjustment period was 11.38 days.

Recalculated over the period June 29, 2013 to June 29, 2014 it was 23.45% and 11.41 days.

Now, recalculating over the period August 24, 2013 to August 31, 2014 it is 21.12% and 11.63 days.

Assuming the network growth rate over the next year is the same as it was this last year we get:

Code:
                                Hash Rate   Power      Energy            Cost        Cost
     Date          Difficulty        TH/s      MW         MWh        $/Period       $/BTC
---------  ------------------  ----------  ------  ----------  --------------  ----------
11-Sep-14      33,220,936,877     237,808     238      66,349      $6,634,853     $131.64
23-Sep-14      40,236,446,759     288,028     288      80,360      $8,035,984     $159.44
04-Oct-14      48,733,473,526     348,853     349      97,330      $9,733,002     $193.12
16-Oct-14      59,024,880,009     422,523     423     117,884     $11,788,392     $233.90
28-Oct-14      71,489,598,585     511,750     512     142,778     $14,277,833     $283.29
08-Nov-14      86,586,583,575     619,820     620     172,930     $17,292,988     $343.11
20-Nov-14     104,871,710,060     750,712     751     209,449     $20,944,876     $415.57
02-Dec-14     127,018,241,359     909,246     909     253,680     $25,367,960     $503.33
13-Dec-14     153,841,618,762   1,101,258   1,101     307,251     $30,725,098     $609.62
25-Dec-14     186,329,486,300   1,333,819   1,334     372,135     $37,213,544     $738.36
05-Jan-15     225,678,056,071   1,615,491   1,615     450,722     $45,072,202     $894.29
17-Jan-15     273,336,153,086   1,956,646   1,957     545,904     $54,590,430   $1,083.14
29-Jan-15     331,058,561,407   2,369,846   2,370     661,187     $66,118,694   $1,311.88
09-Feb-15     400,970,635,767   2,870,303   2,870     800,815     $80,081,465   $1,588.92
21-Feb-15     485,646,557,708   3,476,447   3,476     969,929     $96,992,858   $1,924.46
05-Mar-15     588,204,117,648   4,210,593   4,211   1,174,756    $117,475,554   $2,330.86
16-Mar-15     712,419,512,763   5,099,775   5,100   1,422,837    $142,283,732   $2,823.09
28-Mar-15     862,866,387,600   6,176,732   6,177   1,723,308    $172,330,835   $3,419.26
08-Apr-15   1,045,084,236,901   7,481,119   7,481   2,087,232    $208,723,207   $4,141.33
20-Apr-15   1,265,782,371,309   9,060,961   9,061   2,528,008    $252,800,823   $5,015.89
02-May-15   1,533,086,956,002  10,974,431  10,974   3,061,866    $306,186,635   $6,075.13
13-May-15   1,856,840,218,301  13,291,983  13,292   3,708,463    $370,846,321   $7,358.06
25-May-15   2,248,962,841,151  16,098,949  16,099   4,491,607    $449,160,670   $8,911.92
06-Jun-15   2,723,892,885,897  19,498,682  19,499   5,440,132    $544,013,236  $10,793.91
17-Jun-15   3,299,117,405,623  23,616,363  23,616   6,588,965    $658,896,517  $13,073.34
29-Jun-15   3,995,816,323,188  28,603,604  28,604   7,980,405    $798,040,547  $15,834.14
10-Jul-15   4,839,642,281,734  34,644,038  34,644   9,665,686    $966,568,646  $19,177.95
22-Jul-15   5,861,665,181,962  41,960,074  41,960  11,706,861  $1,170,686,065  $23,227.90
03-Aug-15   7,099,516,184,307  50,821,092  50,821  14,179,085  $1,417,908,463  $28,133.10
14-Aug-15   8,598,773,298,472  61,553,356  61,553  17,173,386  $1,717,338,634  $34,074.18
26-Aug-15  10,414,639,578,109  74,552,032  74,552  20,800,017  $2,080,001,680  $41,269.87
07-Sep-15  12,613,975,712,232  90,295,733  90,296  25,192,510  $2,519,250,952  $49,985.14

In other words something has got to give by the end of the year, or actually before December 1

One problem I have with this is the assumption that big miners are in it for BTC and not fiat. I don't know everyone's motives but I am sure that for some it is an opportunistic business model (ie buy ASIC's, mine, sell, profit). As such what gives is price and it's a race to the bottom in terms of who has the cheapest electricity. Hardware is a sunk cost now, so it makes sense to continue to mine as long as your electicity costs less than than you can sell the BTC for, even if that means just minimising losses (on sunk costs), for all those miners whose goal is not to accumulate BTC.

We hear many times that miners will just hoard or switch off and buy instead. IMO only those that are true believers and not in it for fiat will do so. The rest will get what they can out of their equipment while they can. Many a bad investment decision has been made in the past and will be in the future in many industries. Why this mythical illusion that BTC is so different?

It looks very much like mining bubble to me

EDIT : In conclusion is it not a perfectly reasonable proposition that difficulty could nosedive to match current price as inefficient miners who are in it for fiat simply switch off their hardware at some point and exit the game or wait for their equipment to become profitable again, if ever? The assumption that they will simply buy BTC instead seems deeply flawed. Meanwhile the BTC inflation rate (supply) will remain constant. In the absence of new demand where does price go ?
adamstgBit
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October 04, 2014, 11:55:31 PM

Huge farm just turned on somewhere, hashrate is over 340PH



Hashrate is up over 50% today! SHIIIIEET!

holy fucks!
OMG
THIS IS CRAZY!
BlindMayorBitcorn
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October 04, 2014, 11:56:49 PM

What if I generate a meme of Putin trying to destroy bitcoin a la Godzilla? Would that convince you?
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October 04, 2014, 11:58:05 PM

Huge farm just turned on somewhere, hashrate is over 340PH



Hashrate is up over 50% today! SHIIIIEET!

holy fucks!
OMG
THIS IS CRAZY!

this isn't showing up on bitcoincharts
explorer
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October 04, 2014, 11:58:25 PM

Huge farm just turned on somewhere, hashrate is over 340PH



Hashrate is up over 50% today! SHIIIIEET!

holy fucks!
OMG
THIS IS CRAZY!

Could it be revised down, like US GDP?  Next week it will be found to be a 60% drop Cheesy
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October 04, 2014, 11:59:35 PM

Huge farm just turned on somewhere, hashrate is over 340PH



Hashrate is up over 50% today! SHIIIIEET!

holy fucks!
OMG
THIS IS CRAZY!

this isn't showing up on bitcoincharts


Im not sure, I've never used coinorama to look at nework stats before but I clicked it by accident.  Maybe its not reliable. But BTC-Charts and the other ones arent either - they update only a couple times a day, if not once a day. coinorama updates a lot, if the graph isnt lying.

guess we will see later today
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October 05, 2014, 12:01:11 AM


Explanation
empowering
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October 05, 2014, 12:01:32 AM


Ok I know this might sound nuts. But what if electricity costs were not a factor. Imagine Putin has a secret mission whereby he is giving away power to a secret team of miners...in secret Shocked

sounds like too much effort.... he is too lazy for that.... he just does not Putin the hours..  

Sorry, I shall get my coat.

TAXI!!

Not only a source of meme gifs   Cheesy

Every now and then I also bring a little bit of data and even some analysis... not always OT, but you know.... you got to keep it fresh.  Wink  Cheesy
empowering
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October 05, 2014, 12:02:40 AM

What if I generate a meme of Putin trying to destroy bitcoin a la Godzilla? Would that convince you?

I dunno.. why don't you give it a shot
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October 05, 2014, 12:03:21 AM

It has to do with random variance spikes in the times to find blocks. You can see different time averages at this site, the graph posted looks like a shorter term average like the 8 hr average:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

So sometimes the overall network just gets fairly lucky for a few hours and finds lots of blocks more quickly than usual, leading to a higher estimated hashrate than really exists. OR maybe yes some huge farm just got turned on. You can't say for sure until you let more time go by and see what the longer time averages turn out to be.
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October 05, 2014, 12:04:03 AM

Huge farm just turned on somewhere, hashrate is over 340PH



Hashrate is up over 50% today! SHIIIIEET!


BFL was allowed to resume operations...coincidence?
(yeah they could have that much PH from the scam they did)
imho
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October 05, 2014, 12:04:24 AM

Post count is up, wallets are up, volume is up, price is down...

FINAL CAPITULATION....soon?

The moment those forcing price down change direction. Simple, but most likely we will stay near bottom for some time... to accumulate.
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October 05, 2014, 12:04:41 AM

It has to do with random variance spikes in the times to find blocks. You can see different time averages at this site, the graph posted looks like a shorter term average like the 8 hr average:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

So sometimes the overall network just gets fairly lucky for a few hours and finds lots of blocks more quickly than usual, leading to a higher estimated hashrate than really exists. OR maybe yes some huge farm just got turned on. You can't say for sure until you let more time go by and see what the longer time averages turn out to be.

OOooooh, good info. So when the hashrate is measured its not actually a measurement of the hashrate, its just saying how much faster or slower the network is getting blocks than it should? SORRY FOR THE FALSE ALARM ADAM  Cheesy
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October 05, 2014, 12:08:00 AM

It has to do with random variance spikes in the times to find blocks. You can see different time averages at this site, the graph posted looks like a shorter term average like the 8 hr average:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

So sometimes the overall network just gets fairly lucky for a few hours and finds lots of blocks more quickly than usual, leading to a higher estimated hashrate than really exists. OR maybe yes some huge farm just got turned on. You can't say for sure until you let more time go by and see what the longer time averages turn out to be.

OOooooh, good info. So when the hashrate is measured its not actually a measurement of the hashrate, its just saying how much faster or slower the network is getting blocks than it should? SORRY FOR THE FALSE ALARM ADAM  Cheesy

i almost shat myself.
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October 05, 2014, 12:14:51 AM

It has to do with random variance spikes in the times to find blocks. You can see different time averages at this site, the graph posted looks like a shorter term average like the 8 hr average:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

So sometimes the overall network just gets fairly lucky for a few hours and finds lots of blocks more quickly than usual, leading to a higher estimated hashrate than really exists. OR maybe yes some huge farm just got turned on. You can't say for sure until you let more time go by and see what the longer time averages turn out to be.

OOooooh, good info. So when the hashrate is measured its not actually a measurement of the hashrate, its just saying how much faster or slower the network is getting blocks than it should? SORRY FOR THE FALSE ALARM ADAM  Cheesy

i almost shat myself.

Fact : Penguin shit is white.  (apart from when it is pink... and well sometimes shit colour, but mostly white)

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October 05, 2014, 12:16:03 AM

Saw this chart on a dutch forum; source is tradingview:



Pretty interesting to see all assets going down relative to USD. Question obviously is when and if the USD rally ends.
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October 05, 2014, 12:20:32 AM

Fiesty little so and so's Penguins http://youtu.be/SbWl9TSSv_U
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